Journey fans get ready for something special planned this

[Gideon]

[Deb]

I think if Journey would have remained a jazz-fusion band...

...Herbie would have found another singer and Perry would be a big name in farm carpentry, I'm sure.

Naw Herbie knew a good thing when he heard it...

Damn straight he did! Hand picked 2 of my all-time favorite vocalists. Love him or hate him, I can appreciate the heck out of that! Herbie's own words on picking winners............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToaBSpwRN1c

Holy crap, is it just me or does that shot not look like Perry behind the drum kit there at 00:20. That profile looks exactly like Perry's not Smitty's?

[Deb]

That's not much better than AP's version tonight, to be honest.

Of course not. As Herbie said, everybody's view of the Perry years are jaded. From Escape onward (and during ROR especially), his performances had shortcomings, and could easily be micro-critiqued to death. If the internet was around in 1983, they probably would have.

Agreed.
Revisionist history is a funny thing. The Schon-Salahi fiasco was a textbook example: in addition to being an accomplice in adultery, Neal could no longer play the guitar at all according to half the overweight soccer moms across America.

That's just plain silly. His off stage antics have nothing to do with his playing. I can still totally dig his playing........do I have to respect the dude for emailing pics of his wang all over the place? Lol nah, not so much.

[tater1977]

I think if Journey would have remained a jazz-fusion band...

...Herbie would have found another singer and Perry would be a big name in farm carpentry, I'm sure.

Naw Herbie knew a good thing when he heard it...

Damn straight he did! Hand picked 2 of my all-time favorite vocalists. Love him or hate him, I can appreciate the heck out of that! Herbie's own words on picking winners............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToaBSpwRN1c

Holy crap, is it just me or does that shot not look like Perry behind the drum kit there at 00:20. That profile looks exactly like Perry's not Smitty's?

LoL Smitty with that hat on...does have SPs profile...

[knox]

After that SP mention, I just happened to youtube up the Japan performance of DSB. Fuck me that man had a one of kind voice eh! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQIPVqLMUg&ob=av2e Every time I watch any of these old clips it just makes me think how lucky we were to witness that chemistry and all that talent on one stage.........lol, whether we knew it/or appreciated it back then or not.

That's not much better than AP's version tonight, to be honest.

In all my years of being on this forum, I believe this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read

Surely, this is a joke, right?

[Aaron]

So what did everyone think about Gary Levox putting the smack down on AP on DSB? AP did turn it up a notch with a little pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMLJvH33Vk

[RedWingFan]

After that SP mention, I just happened to youtube up the Japan performance of DSB. Fuck me that man had a one of kind voice eh! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQIPVqLMUg&ob=av2e Every time I watch any of these old clips it just makes me think how lucky we were to witness that chemistry and all that talent on one stage.........lol, whether we knew it/or appreciated it back then or not.

That's not much better than AP's version tonight, to be honest.

In all my years of being on this forum, I believe this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read

Surely, this is a joke, right?

This is the same clown that said Eclipse is Journey's best cd ever. If you want to talk automobiles with him, I'm sure you'll get his take on why the Yugo is a far better car than Ferrari.

[Gideon]

That's not much better than AP's version tonight, to be honest.

In all my years of being on this forum, I believe this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read

Surely, this is a joke, right?

It's not.

This is the same clown that said Eclipse is Journey's best cd ever. If you want to talk automobiles with him, I'm sure you'll get his take on why the Yugo is a far better car than Ferrari.

Well it looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
What is it about Journey that turns a bunch of middle aged fat asses into pubescent adolescents, complete with incessant bitching and capricious hormone levels?

It's an opinion and hardly the most controversial thing said around here. You'll be just fine, I promise.

[The_Noble_Cause]

So what did everyone think about Gary Levox putting the smack down on AP on DSB? AP did turn it up a notch with a little pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMLJvH33Vk

There was no smackdown. The whole appearance had zero net impact. Yea, Gary has range. But everyone already knew that. The performance was unorganized and a wash.

[Aaron]

Opinions vary TNC. I think Gary applied enough pressure that AP turned it up a notch.

So what did everyone think about Gary Levox putting the smack down on AP on DSB? AP did turn it up a notch with a little pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMLJvH33Vk

There was no smackdown. The whole appearance had zero net impact. Yea, Gary has range. But everyone already knew that. The performance was unorganized and a wash.

[SF-Dano]

Sometimes I wonder how any of us became Rock fans back in the day at all. This performance was not perfect, but it was not horrible. Have we all become so used to autotune and studio clean up effects, that we think live performances are perfect? Every song perfect, every time? Like the post-performance cleaned up DVDs we buy? A concert should provide a decent, true (not synched) performance and fun. By the looks of the crowd there last night, that is what they got.

Like someone mentioned, thank goodness there was no internet back when. My god how we over-anal-ize these performances now.

[Ehwmatt]

Sometimes I wonder how any of us became Rock fans back in the day at all. This performance was not perfect, but it was not horrible. Have we all become so used to autotune and studio clean up effects, that we think live performances are perfect? Every song perfect, every time? Like the post-performance cleaned up DVDs we buy? A concert should provide a decent, true (not synched) performance and fun. By the looks of the crowd there last night, that is what they got.

Like someone mentioned, thank goodness there was no internet back when. My god how we over-anal-ize these performances now.

I go see people who have lost half their range or can't quite do justice to the studio recordings all the time and enjoy the hell out of their shows. A good live atmosphere will trump small warts here and there, and I certainly won't "analyze" a show I enjoy. The live show I got from Journey last August didn't fit that bill for me because it was a horrific show, especially sound-wise and Arnel-wise. I don't like Arnel, especially live. His phrasing is horrible, and that is the killer for me. See my post in the other thread on this performance for further elaboration. I posted this in the other thread:

Cast aside subjectivities like "emotion" and "tone." Hell, you can even cast aside semi-subjective things like whether the notes Arnel hit sounded good, sour, or mediocre. His phrasing and timing stand out as objectively horrible to me on most live performances. He simply doesn't seem to have a natural feel for rhythm, and without rhythm, no professional musician can survive a trained ear's scrutiny.

Have you ever tried to sing karaoke to a song you thought you could sing and knew well, but then the karaoke screen is highlighting the words at a weird cadence that isn't like the original because the karaoke track doesn't quite match the original? It quickly becomes a train wreck for all involved. To me, Arnel has NO clue when to sing certain parts and how long to draw certain words/phrases/notes out, and it sounds a lot like someone singing karaoke to a slightly unfamiliar backing track. It's bad on the rockers, but it's even worse on the slow ones (e.g., Faithfully). I'm not trying to rehash the Asian karaoke stereotype, but frankly, I've played music with Asians before and they do have a tendency to be robotic about things. I DO chalk this up to Arnel coming from a culture that prides itself on imitation, rather than artistry.

I've heard a lot of guitar players who know all kinds of cool licks, riffs, and chords (i.e., have good technical chops, like Arnel arguably does to an extent), but have NO sense of rhythm or phrasing. It's why I'd rather listen to David Gilmour than some anonymous basement shredder on YouTube. To me, Arnel is no different, and that's largely the reason why I really can't stand listening to him sing, especially live.

Please note: I am not referring to his diction (which is distracting, too, but not fatal alone). I'm talking about his phrasing. They are different.

[SF-Dano]

Looking at last night's performance only - In your opinion, was RF's lead singer's vocal phrasing any better than AP's on DSB. I don't feel so. This was supposed to be a fun little combo performance, and I think that is what it was. I get that you don't go for Pineda's style and that is fine (he would not be my first pick to front Journey either), but last night's performance is not the train wreck some here are making it out to be.

[Gideon]

I still say it goes back to the live singer vs. recording of live singer phenomenon.
When I saw Journey with Night Ranger & Foreigner in August 2011, he sounded much weaker than the 2009 Louisville show and the 2008 Nashville show.
Then in TPAC 2012, he blew me away again with a performance that rivaled the 2009 one at the very least. My mother and her boyfriend went with my girlfriend and I; she was a devout Loon and he didn't care much for Journey, but both of them said they were won over at the end of it.

Now a live recording of Arnel is a different story and the flaws that were one imperceptible are now obvious as hell. Of all the actual DVDs, the Augeri one is the strongest for me vocally, and that owes entirely to the fact that it was doctored after the fact.

[The Sushi Hunter]

A lot of it also has to do with the equipment and how it's set up for the show, along with the structure of where the music is being played, (inside, outside, large hall, small club, etc. etc.) You people in bands that are on this site would know if the epuipment isn't set up or dialed in right, that impacts the quality of the sound bigtime.

[knox]

A lot of it also has to do with the equipment and how it's set up for the show, along with the structure of where the music is being played, (inside, outside, large hall, small club, etc. etc.) You people in bands that are on this site would know if the epuipment isn't set up or dialed in right, that impacts the quality of the sound bigtime.

TOTALLY disagree when it comes to vocal quality. Timing, tempo - yes. But not vocal quality.

Here is Steve, recorded with a HOT, HOT microphone. Yet, even here he sounds great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659zk35_wRQ

You either have a good voice, or you don't. Period.

[The Sushi Hunter]

In my reply what I was referencing is the singer's voice not being loud or powerful enough or faint compared to other shows that they have done at other places. Seriously. If a singer has to scream in order to hear thier own voice while singing live, the trade-off sometimes is in the form of less quality vocals.

[knox]

In my reply what I was referencing was to the singer's voice not being loud or powerful enough or faint compared to other shows that they have done at other places. Seriously. If a singer has to scream in order to hear thier own voice while singing live, the trade-off sometimes is in the form of less quality vocals.

Agree. You are exactly right about this. Straining above the mix WILL sound like garbage.

[Aaron]

Correction, you were referencing Ehwmatt post. My bad, I've had too much bourbon tonight celebrating our house sale today.

Dan,

I assume you're referring to me in your attached post. I don't think RF's singer had better vocal phrasing than AP. I do belive the Gary was able to move into a higher vocal range with little effort. I think this applied pressure to AP to step it up. AP did hit some higher notes later towards the closing. I've seen AP several times and he was putting out more effort on the CMT awards than I've seen.

I don't think last night's performance was a train wreck either. I think AP stepped it up and sounded as better than usually after Gary applied a little pressure. I think Gary carried the night but opinions are just like arseholes, everyone has one.

Aaron

Looking at last night's performance only - In your opinion, was RF's lead singer's vocal phrasing any better than AP's on DSB. I don't feel so. This was supposed to be a fun little combo performance, and I think that is what it was. I get that you don't go for Pineda's style and that is fine (he would not be my first pick to front Journey either), but last night's performance is not the train wreck some here are making it out to be.

[Aaron]

Knox,

I couldn't agree more. Hot mics can make or break a singer. I'd argue your link is the best live vocal performance of anyone to walk the planet to date. The mic is hot and this is a raw feed without effects on SP's vocals. His raw vocals are better than the loaded effects he tended to run later with Journey. This shows SP's true vocal talent, he was clearly the best ever to hold a mic, period.

Now if I can just get my guy guitarist to learn this song so I can take a crack at it. It's my favorite song ever.

Thanks for the post,

Aaron

A lot of it also has to do with the equipment and how it's set up for the show, along with the structure of where the music is being played, (inside, outside, large hall, small club, etc. etc.) You people in bands that are on this site would know if the epuipment isn't set up or dialed in right, that impacts the quality of the sound bigtime.

TOTALLY disagree when it comes to vocal quality. Timing, tempo - yes. But not vocal quality.

Here is Steve, recorded with a HOT, HOT microphone. Yet, even here he sounds great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659zk35_wRQ

You either have a good voice, or you don't. Period.

[Aaron]

You both are 100% right. And when you hear you need to "project" or "push" the vocals you know you're dealing with non singing people. The TC Helicon Voice Create XT is a magic box. It has a mic pre amp that takes a Shure beta mic to hot hot hot. I went from being a weak singer that can't "project my voice" to a "power house" with the addition of the TC Helicon mic pre amp in the Create XT in one practice. I can now sing comfortably with the proper amplification.

In my reply what I was referencing was to the singer's voice not being loud or powerful enough or faint compared to other shows that they have done at other places. Seriously. If a singer has to scream in order to hear thier own voice while singing live, the trade-off sometimes is in the form of less quality vocals.

Agree. You are exactly right about this. Straining above the mix WILL sound like garbage.

[AR]

Singers don't have to matter that much if a band just rocks the fuck out.

[slucero]

..its still about the song... except with a singer like Perry.. the song becomes so much more...

[AR]

..its still about the song... except with a singer like Perry.. the song becomes so much more...

That's a very good point. Journey had a bonus in that they had a special singer. The songs were great no matter what at the time, and would have been hits regardless unless Lemmy was singing them.

Journey fans are spoiled from back in the day and the American Idol culture has made todays "music" all about crooning. That thought process is about the same as deciding to blow someone's hairy cock.

How about some new guitar heroes?

Get back to rock. Fuck the American Idol shit.

[Aaron]

Dude I like you but disagree here. If the singer isn't that important, then Journey would be on the radio today wouldn't they? IMO it takes a killer band and a killer singer to make hay. Schon, Rolie and Perry; Cronin and Richrath; Young and Scott are good examples. You need a kller guitarist and a killer singer to take it over the top.

Singers don't have to matter that much if a band just rocks the fuck out.

[AR]

Dude I like you but disagree here. If the singer isn't that important, then Journey would be on the radio today wouldn't they? IMO it takes a killer band and a killer singer to make hay. Schon, Rolie and Perry; Cronin and Richrath; Young and Scott are good examples. You need a kller guitarist and a killer singer to take it over the top.

Singers don't have to matter that much if a band just rocks the fuck out.

Aaron the focus is too much on the vocals today which is what I'm getting at. I like a great singer as much as anyone but it's over the top now.

I just saw Van Halen and had a great time as David Lee Roth was basically the MC of the show and sang when he could. It didn't matter at all.

[Aaron]

Your note would suggest that VH is a top notch band at the moment. You know where I'm going here ....

Bands that are in the top 5 favorites of your life time have both, yes?

Dude I like you but disagree here. If the singer isn't that important, then Journey would be on the radio today wouldn't they?
IMO it takes a killer band and a killer singer to make hay. Schon, Rolie and Perry; Cronin and Richrath; Young and Scott are good examples. You need a kller guitarist and a killer singer to take it over the top.

Singers don't have to matter that much if a band just rocks the fuck out.

Aaron the focus is too much on the vocals today which is what I'm getting at. I like a great singer as much as anyone but it's over the top now.

I just saw Van Halen and had a great time as David Lee Roth was basically the MC of the show and sang when he could. It didn't matter at all.

[Deb]

..its still about the song... except with a singer like Perry.. the song becomes so much more...

That's a very good point. Journey had a bonus in that they had a special singer. The songs were great no matter what at the time, and would have been hits regardless unless Lemmy was singing them.

Journey fans are spoiled from back in the day and the American Idol culture has made todays "music" all about crooning. That thought process is about the same as deciding to blow someone's hairy cock.

How about some new guitar heroes?

Get back to rock. Fuck the American Idol shit.

While I will agree with you that it takes great musicians surrounding that singer as well to have a great rock band. But have to disagree with ya to a degree, Ed. I don't think you can blame AI for the lack of rock musicians out there now. IMO, 'video killed the radio star' LOL and I don't mean it as in the MTV song, I think the video game generation is more responsible for the lack of guitar heros and great rock musicians. Kids aren't out in the garage or basement practicing guitar/bass/drums, etc. for hours trying to emulate their favorite rock gods any more....they're in their bedrooms and basements playing video games for hours instead.

Also IMO American Idol is less about great crooners than it is about the making of technically proficient pop stars. There is rarely ever a great soulful crooner to come out of those type of shows. I personally don't care how technically proficient a vocalist is or what range they can reach, for me......probably a good 90% of my musical/vocal enjoyment is about having the right vocal tone and delivery/emotability.

My opinion is that vocalists are probably 50% natural born talent and 50% learned skill. Where as the learned skill is a much higher percent when it comes to guitar and bass.

[slucero]

..its still about the song... except with a singer like Perry.. the song becomes so much more...

That's a very good point. Journey had a bonus in that they had a special singer. The songs were great no matter what at the time, and would have been hits regardless unless Lemmy was singing them.

Journey fans are spoiled from back in the day and the American Idol culture has made todays "music" all about crooning. That thought process is about the same as deciding to blow someone's hairy cock.

How about some new guitar heroes?

Get back to rock. Fuck the American Idol shit.

While I will agree with you that it takes great musicians surrounding that singer as well to have a great rock band. But have to disagree with ya to a degree, Ed. I don't think you can blame AI for the lack of rock musicians out there now. IMO, 'video killed the radio star' LOL and I don't mean it as in the MTV song, I think the video game generation is more responsible for the lack of guitar heros and great rock musicians. Kids aren't out in the garage or basement practicing guitar/bass/drums, etc. for hours trying to emulate their favorite rock gods any more....they're in their bedrooms and basements playing video games for hours instead.

Also IMO American Idol is less about great crooners than it is about the making of technically proficient pop stars. There is rarely ever a great soulful crooner to come out of those type of shows. I personally don't care how technically proficient a vocalist is or what range they can reach, for me......probably a good 90% of my musical/vocal enjoyment is about having the right vocal tone and delivery/emotability.

My opinion is that vocalists are probably 50% natural born talent and 50% learned skill. Where as the learned skill is a much higher percent when it comes to guitar and bass.

Sometimes though... one does get through... check out former Rockstar finalist Ty Talyor's band Vintage Trouble: http://www.vintagetrouble.com/

This has some amazing soul to it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pDr7cQg ... ure=relmfu


And this cover of With A Little Help From My Friends... just smokes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HasBOubr ... ure=relmfu

[Deb]

Sometimes though... one does get through... check out former Rockstar finalist Ty Talyor's band Vintage Trouble: http://www.vintagetrouble.com/

This has some amazing soul to it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pDr7cQg ... ure=relmfu

Nice! I like that one. I love me some great old school bluesy soul/rock. Another one that I thought brought it with that great bluesy soul groove was this guy that won America's Got Talent a couple years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyAadBF-c0M Damn it, there just isn't enough bluesy rock groove in the music scene any more.