Play of the YEAR

[Liam]

Auburn/Bama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbRVklNPJ6w

[YoungJRNY]

Went out to eat with buddies last night and heard about this afterwards. Sucks I missed it but now seeing it, what an incredible atmosphere and play that was. That's what it's all about. Unreal.

[No Surprize]

College football trumps the pro game without a doubt.

[Ehwmatt]

College football trumps the pro game without a doubt.

For the life of me, I can never understand how people can possibly say this. The skill level and parity just flat out isn't there. Although preferring college over pro or vice versa might sound like a subjective thing, it really barely is subjective in my eyes. The pros are just objectively flat out better in every measure, and I don't get how someone could ever prefer watching an inferior product.

For every great/exciting college game like yesterday's Iron Bowl or OSU-Michigan showdown, there are a dozen horrendous blowout games every week. The best teams basically play one cupcake after another, save for 1-3 games each season (including the bowl game). Also, the lack of overall athleticism aside, college football, even at the highest level (D1/big conference), often features teams that lack basic skills, such as being unable to pass from the pocket or competently kick field goals. Also, the fundamental mistakes and errors that are regularly made at the college level are a huge turnoff for me--e.g., Alabama's field goals yesterday, Michigan kicking its post-game tying touchdown kickoff OUT OF BOUNDS in the fourth quarter yesterday to put OSU on the 40 and give it its eventual game-tying touchdown. With rare exceptions, you simply don't see these embarrassing blunders at the pro level.

The one-dimensional nature of most teams--especially on offense--is the other thing I just can't stand. To me, it's an absolute joke watching a supposed top team like OSU play yesterday and have only two offensive plays: run Braxton Miller or run Carlos Hyde. It's an even bigger joke watching inferior athletes not be able to stop what they know is coming.

The only way I can possibly see how one might prefer college over the pros is simply not having a pro team to root for. Otherwise, I just don't get it. And don't give me vagaries about liking the "atmosphere" of college games. There's plenty of "atmosphere" at every NFL stadium/game (except maybe Jacksonville).

[Andrew]

AWESOME!

[YoungJRNY]

College football trumps the pro game without a doubt.

For the life of me, I can never understand how people can possibly say this. The skill level and parity just flat out isn't there. Although preferring college over pro or vice versa might sound like a subjective thing, it really barely is subjective in my eyes. The pros are just objectively flat out better in every measure, and I don't get how someone could ever prefer watching an inferior product.

For every great/exciting college game like yesterday's Iron Bowl or OSU-Michigan showdown, there are a dozen horrendous blowout games every week. The best teams basically play one cupcake after another, save for 1-3 games each season (including the bowl game). Also, the lack of overall athleticism aside, college football, even at the highest level (D1/big conference), often features teams that lack basic skills, such as being unable to pass from the pocket or competently kick field goals. Also, the fundamental mistakes and errors that are regularly made at the college level are a huge turnoff for me--e.g., Alabama's field goals yesterday, Michigan kicking its post-game tying touchdown kickoff OUT OF BOUNDS in the fourth quarter yesterday to put OSU on the 40 and give it its eventual game-tying touchdown. With rare exceptions, you simply don't see these embarrassing blunders at the pro level.

The one-dimensional nature of most teams--especially on offense--is the other thing I just can't stand. To me, it's an absolute joke watching a supposed top team like OSU play yesterday and have only two offensive plays: run Braxton Miller or run Carlos Hyde. It's an even bigger joke watching inferior athletes not be able to stop what they know is coming.

The only way I can possibly see how one might prefer college over the pros is simply not having a pro team to root for. Otherwise, I just don't get it. And don't give me vagaries about liking the "atmosphere" of college games. There's plenty of "atmosphere" at every NFL stadium/game (except maybe Jacksonville).

Matt comes back with a vengeance. Well said, bro.

[No Surprize]

College football trumps the pro game without a doubt.

For the life of me, I can never understand how people can possibly say this. The skill level and parity just flat out isn't there. Although preferring college over pro or vice versa might sound like a subjective thing, it really barely is subjective in my eyes. The pros are just objectively flat out better in every measure, and I don't get how someone could ever prefer watching an inferior product.

For every great/exciting college game like yesterday's Iron Bowl or OSU-Michigan showdown, there are a dozen horrendous blowout games every week. The best teams basically play one cupcake after another, save for 1-3 games each season (including the bowl game). Also, the lack of overall athleticism aside, college football, even at the highest level (D1/big conference), often features teams that lack basic skills, such as being unable to pass from the pocket or competently kick field goals. Also, the fundamental mistakes and errors that are regularly made at the college level are a huge turnoff for me--e.g., Alabama's field goals yesterday, Michigan kicking its post-game tying touchdown kickoff OUT OF BOUNDS in the fourth quarter yesterday to put OSU on the 40 and give it its eventual game-tying touchdown. With rare exceptions, you simply don't see these embarrassing blunders at the pro level.

The one-dimensional nature of most teams--especially on offense--is the other thing I just can't stand. To me, it's an absolute joke watching a supposed top team like OSU play yesterday and have only two offensive plays: run Braxton Miller or run Carlos Hyde. It's an even bigger joke watching inferior athletes not be able to stop what they know is coming.

The only way I can possibly see how one might prefer college over the pros is simply not having a pro team to root for. Otherwise, I just don't get it. And don't give me vagaries about liking the "atmosphere" of college games. There's plenty of "atmosphere" at every NFL stadium/game (except maybe Jacksonville).

Hey Matt, You bring up good points and before you pull that thong out off your ass I'll make it even. First off I'll agree with the first thing you mentioned, dozen of blowouts. Of course there will be. In division 1A there's around 128 to 130 colleges alone that play. That's not to mention division 2, 3, etc. Of course there will be blowouts. In the NFL theres only 30 teams. Of course your going to get the best of the best with only that many, it's not watered down. But, the NFL can be a boring ass slugfest and I believe the NFL wants, I mean wants certain teams to always be viable. Some of the calls you see are plain ass horrible at a crucial part of the game.
And NO, you don't see blunders like the ones you mentioned, but you seem to forget these are kids! 18, 19, 20 year olds who most will not play a down of pro football. They play for the LOVE of the game. You think the pros play for the love? Not in this universe. The only thing they love is money and who can pay me the most. You'll NEVER see dynasty's anymore in pro football like the Steelers & Raiders, Dolphins, or Cowboys of the 70's. No one again like the 49ers of the 80's. Why? They choose money over team loyalty unless of course nowadays you want to take less money to play with NE cause the NFL bows down to Kraft & Cheaterchek.

Hmm, you say one-dimensional but your just picking and choosing. Lot's of teams run AND throw in college and are no more one-dimensional than watching the viking feed Peterson the ball 40 times or Manning throwing 59 passes in a game.

And your right, you can't compare a college game day atmosphere to a NFL one. The tradition, the rivalries, the band, the songs and I could go on. The passion of the college game is rooted in the notion that YOUR college represents you, your state, your alma-mater, your youth. The NFL represents what exactly? A bunch of 25 year old millionaires who will dump your city the minute their agent secures them a better offer. There is NO loyalty in the NFL. And the rivalries. Army-Navy, ever been? You need to go it's an absolute must before you die. The red-river shootout between OU & Texas, the largest cocktail party, Florida vs Georgia, The Iron Bowl, Alabama vs Auburn and I could go on & on. You revel in victory and agonize in defeat. What does the NFL OFFER in comparison? Jets-Dolphins? Why are the Dolphins in a division with 3 Northern teams? How fucking stupid is that. Or here's another, Dallas vs Washington. How can that be a rivalry game when it's played TWICE a year? Fucking retarded .

And the stadiums of the NFL are fucked up. Their like palaces where the rich billionaire owners can sit back and bask in their wealth and have about as much sentimental value as another skyscraper downtown. Give me the old-school stadiums like Ben-Hill, The Horseshoe, The Big House, Death Valley, Touchdown Jesus any day over another DOME-INDUCED stuper that takes the elements out of the game, pussies.

Here's another peeve of mine about the Not for long league. The worst thing to happen to football since the XFL. Let's go over this.No one needs to hear an ex-player run his fucking mouth about whats going to happen in the game. Start the GAME ON TIME. Then during the game a TD. Lot's of commercials. Extra point. Lots of commercials. Kickoff. Lots of commercials.Time out. Lot's of commercials. Player hurt. Lots of commercials. By the time the game starts again, you've got to remind yourself who's playing. That's not a problem in college football.

Halftimes. In the NFL it's back to the studio now to hear former players who thought they were just totally fucking awesome in their day and love to run their mouth. Or if your at an NFL game, it's just a break to the bathroom or beer run. In college you have the bands. Ever seen one. Hail to the Victors by Michigan come to mind? College halftime means tradition. Marching bands dot the I at OSU or at least rouse the emotions by playing the fight song. Non-marching bands, such as the LSJUMB (Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band) at Stanford, mock all that is sacred. Either way, it's an inestimable part of the college football experience. NFL halftime means, um, time to make a sandwich.

The traditions. Checkerboard end zones. Aggies kissing their girls after a touchdown. Nittany Lion roars. Boats on Lake Washington anchoring at a Husky game. The flaming spear at midfield. The Sooner Schooner. Touchdown Jesus. Traditions are the imprimatur of every college team and its fans. As long as the NFL is operated out of one office in New York, tradition will be disallowed. And what kind of tradition is it when teams just up & move? Colleges never do that.

So Matthew, did you go to college or even have a clue about what it's all about? Now, you do and that's why college ball is better.

[Ehwmatt]

College football trumps the pro game without a doubt.

For the life of me, I can never understand how people can possibly say this. The skill level and parity just flat out isn't there. Although preferring college over pro or vice versa might sound like a subjective thing, it really barely is subjective in my eyes. The pros are just objectively flat out better in every measure, and I don't get how someone could ever prefer watching an inferior product.

For every great/exciting college game like yesterday's Iron Bowl or OSU-Michigan showdown, there are a dozen horrendous blowout games every week. The best teams basically play one cupcake after another, save for 1-3 games each season (including the bowl game). Also, the lack of overall athleticism aside, college football, even at the highest level (D1/big conference), often features teams that lack basic skills, such as being unable to pass from the pocket or competently kick field goals. Also, the fundamental mistakes and errors that are regularly made at the college level are a huge turnoff for me--e.g., Alabama's field goals yesterday, Michigan kicking its post-game tying touchdown kickoff OUT OF BOUNDS in the fourth quarter yesterday to put OSU on the 40 and give it its eventual game-tying touchdown. With rare exceptions, you simply don't see these embarrassing blunders at the pro level.

The one-dimensional nature of most teams--especially on offense--is the other thing I just can't stand. To me, it's an absolute joke watching a supposed top team like OSU play yesterday and have only two offensive plays: run Braxton Miller or run Carlos Hyde. It's an even bigger joke watching inferior athletes not be able to stop what they know is coming.

The only way I can possibly see how one might prefer college over the pros is simply not having a pro team to root for. Otherwise, I just don't get it. And don't give me vagaries about liking the "atmosphere" of college games. There's plenty of "atmosphere" at every NFL stadium/game (except maybe Jacksonville).

Hey Matt, You bring up good points and before you pull that thong out off your ass I'll make it even. First off I'll agree with the first thing you mentioned, dozen of blowouts. Of course there will be. In division 1A there's around 128 to 130 colleges alone that play. That's not to mention division 2, 3, etc. Of course there will be blowouts. In the NFL theres only 30 teams. Of course your going to get the best of the best with only that many, it's not watered down. But, the NFL can be a boring ass slugfest and I believe the NFL wants, I mean wants certain teams to always be viable. Some of the calls you see are plain ass horrible at a crucial part of the game.
And NO, you don't see blunders like the ones you mentioned, but you seem to forget these are kids! 18, 19, 20 year olds who most will not play a down of pro football. They play for the LOVE of the game. You think the pros play for the love? Not in this universe. The only thing they love is money and who can pay me the most. You'll NEVER see dynasty's anymore in pro football like the Steelers & Raiders, Dolphins, or Cowboys of the 70's. No one again like the 49ers of the 80's. Why? They choose money over team loyalty unless of course nowadays you want to take less money to play with NE cause the NFL bows down to Kraft & Cheaterchek.

Hmm, you say one-dimensional but your just picking and choosing. Lot's of teams run AND throw in college and are no more one-dimensional than watching the viking feed Peterson the ball 40 times or Manning throwing 59 passes in a game.

And your right, you can't compare a college game day atmosphere to a NFL one. The tradition, the rivalries, the band, the songs and I could go on. The passion of the college game is rooted in the notion that YOUR college represents you, your state, your alma-mater, your youth. The NFL represents what exactly? A bunch of 25 year old millionaires who will dump your city the minute their agent secures them a better offer. There is NO loyalty in the NFL. And the rivalries. Army-Navy, ever been? You need to go it's an absolute must before you die. The red-river shootout between OU & Texas, the largest cocktail party, Florida vs Georgia, The Iron Bowl, Alabama vs Auburn and I could go on & on. You revel in victory and agonize in defeat. What does the NFL OFFER in comparison? Jets-Dolphins? Why are the Dolphins in a division with 3 Northern teams? How fucking stupid is that. Or here's another, Dallas vs Washington. How can that be a rivalry game when it's played TWICE a year? Fucking retarded .

And the stadiums of the NFL are fucked up. Their like palaces where the rich billionaire owners can sit back and bask in their wealth and have about as much sentimental value as another skyscraper downtown. Give me the old-school stadiums like Ben-Hill, The Horseshoe, The Big House, Death Valley, Touchdown Jesus any day over another DOME-INDUCED stuper that takes the elements out of the game, pussies.

Here's another peeve of mine about the Not for long league. The worst thing to happen to football since the XFL. Let's go over this.No one needs to hear an ex-player run his fucking mouth about whats going to happen in the game. Start the GAME ON TIME. Then during the game a TD. Lot's of commercials. Extra point. Lots of commercials. Kickoff. Lots of commercials.Time out. Lot's of commercials. Player hurt. Lots of commercials. By the time the game starts again, you've got to remind yourself who's playing. That's not a problem in college football.

Halftimes. In the NFL it's back to the studio now to hear former players who thought they were just totally fucking awesome in their day and love to run their mouth. Or if your at an NFL game, it's just a break to the bathroom or beer run. In college you have the bands. Ever seen one. Hail to the Victors by Michigan come to mind? College halftime means tradition. Marching bands dot the I at OSU or at least rouse the emotions by playing the fight song. Non-marching bands, such as the LSJUMB (Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band) at Stanford, mock all that is sacred. Either way, it's an inestimable part of the college football experience. NFL halftime means, um, time to make a sandwich.

The traditions. Checkerboard end zones. Aggies kissing their girls after a touchdown. Nittany Lion roars. Boats on Lake Washington anchoring at a Husky game. The flaming spear at midfield. The Sooner Schooner. Touchdown Jesus. Traditions are the imprimatur of every college team and its fans. As long as the NFL is operated out of one office in New York, tradition will be disallowed. And what kind of tradition is it when teams just up & move? Colleges never do that.

So Matthew, did you go to college or even have a clue about what it's all about? Now, you do and that's why college ball is better.

Well, I'll start at the end of your message and readily admit that I don't "get" the college football thing in part because I went to a small DIII college where nobody gave a shit about the football team and, despite being a life-long Ohioan, I LOATHE Ohio State and its athletics. So yes, I'm biased in some respects. Now, to your points:

1. NFL officiating is, like every other pro and amateur sport involving umps/refs, uneven. This season has been notably bad IMO. With that said, I don't buy the notion that the NFL has some sort of quasi-fixed system in which certain teams get favorable calls. The Patriots, a popular but divisive team whom I suspect you would lump into your theory, got jobbed by the refs in the worst way just a week or two ago. It might cost them a chance to play Peyton Manning in chilly Gillette as opposed to Peyton's backyard in Denver in the playoffs.

2. I'll accept at face value the notion that college players are playing for "love of the game" and not for ulterior motives. That's fine and good. The guy in the local bar band--hell, me shredding guitar in my basement--might play guitar for the sheer love of it more than an average rock star. That doesn't mean I'd rather hear the local bar band or me play guitar.

3. On one-dimensionalness, it's not just about only passing or only running. It's about the lack of sophistication in the schemes you see on offense and defense. It's boring to me. What makes football great to me--someone who's never played it at any level past 4th grade--is the combination of brutality AND tactics/strategy you see at the highest level. I don't see that at the college level for the most part. I'm sure there are some college teams doing some more complex schemes (Stanford comes to mind), but that's the exception. There's a reason they've coined phrases like a "college offense" or "college defense," and that's not flattery.

4. Why are any of your points about the "atmosphere" of a college game any less valid for a professional team? I've lived in Cleveland most of my life, and I've always loved the Browns. My team represents me, my city, the place I live and earn my livelihood in, my youth (times spent watching/going to games with my friends/dad). We have great storied (albeit one-sided in recent years) rivalries with all three of our divisional foes. Simply put, your points on "atmosphere" are equally applicable to the NFL for any real fan of the game/league.

5. As far as the geographic makeup of divisions, have you been watching what's happening at the college level and conference realignment? It's as goofy as any divisional alignment in pro football. Meanwhile, all 4 of the teams in the AFC North--one of the NFL's flagship divisions--are within a car ride of one another, with Baltimore being the one somewhat outlier. Even then, easy car ride.

6. Not sure what your sentiment about billionaire owners sitting and basking in their wealth has to do with NFL stadiums. Again, this is the easiest example for me, but all 4 of the teams in the AFC North play outdoors and have no plans (that I'm aware of) to add a roof or dome to their stadiums. Also, off the top of my head, I can think of 7 domes in the entire league. I believe there are 31 stadiums (32 teams, but Giants/Jets play in the same place).

7. There are plenty of TV timeouts and talking heads in the college game.

8. I don't care about halftime. I'm there to watch a sporting event. I'll concede that halftime at college games might be better, but only because I don't see how it matters.

9. Teams moving sucks--take it from a Browns fan. But it doesn't happen that often. It's just as bad when (nonsensical) conference realignment kills historic rivalries in college.

10. There is no loyalty in college football, your romanticizing it aside. The best players bolt for the pros as soon as they can, and the best coaches are just waiting for another school to throw more money at them. Hell, even Saban supposedly would take a job with Texas and leave Alabama if the price is right.

11. How can you say there aren't dynasties in the NFL? At least 10 of the last 13 years have been utterly dominated by two organizations--the Steelers and the Patriots.

Fun debate for sure, but I can't imagine college fans ever having much other than romanticized arguments to make in favor of preferring the college game over the pros.

[Liam]

Still the best play of the fucking year. Even the Aussie thinks so.

[No Surprize]

Matt I really think it comes down to this and I'm sure John, YJ and even Liam would agree. College football in the south is a religion and we live & breathe to get to another saturday. We all know down here that at any given time some team from an alternate universe (north, east, west) might win a national championship, it doesn't take long to find it's way back. College football up north does have it's fans and certain schools do very well, (OSU, Michigan, PSU sell out), in the south, and this goes back generations before the nfl ever existed, college is king.

[Liam]

He's right, dude. Even high school is HUGE here. Granted, I'm more of an NFL fan than college, but it doesn't get beat out by much. Still love College Gameday with a passion.

[No Surprize]

. As far as the geographic makeup of divisions, have you been watching what's happening at the college level and conference realignment? It's as goofy as any divisional alignment in pro football. Meanwhile, all 4 of the teams in the AFC North--one of the NFL's flagship divisions--are within a car ride of one another, with Baltimore being the one somewhat outlier. Even then, easy car ride.


And what the NFL needs to do is realigned everything. If the AFC north (which the NFL gets down on one knee to) can be within a hours ride, why can't other divisions be that way? How about the Dolphins, Bucs, Jags, and Falcons in one division? How about Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Kansas city? How about San Diego, San Fran, Oakland, Arizona? Or how about this. Get rid of divisions, the teams who finish with the best record get in the playoffs and battle for the super bowl.

[Liam]

Speaking of divisions, it pissed me off when the Bucs went on something like an 8 game streak, and they couldn't get in because the Aints were already repping the south. But then you have the AWESOME 7-9 Seahawks in the west....it made no sense to me. (Well...it did, but I think you get what I mean)