Settlement Reached

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Settlement Reached

Postby indigo » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:01 am

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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Eric » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:14 am

TERRIFIC news!

Thanks for posting.

Now we can finally get some new Journey. It’s been A DECADE! Same time as between ROR and TBF!
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Loneman1 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:39 am

Excellent news, hopefully this will usher in the promo campaign for the new album sooner than later!
Rock on,
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby TageRyche » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:46 am

Be more interesting to know the terms of the settlement.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby marco17 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:55 am

TageRyche wrote:Be more interesting to know the terms of the settlement.


I'm sure it reads something to effect of... "Sorry Ross and Smitty... Over time, cooler heads prevailed, and here's a lot of $ and "X" % of future concert revenues for you two to kind or go away and let Jonathan and I can do whatever we want to under the name Journey. That said, you can use Journey or specifically former-Journey in any self-promotion." Love, Neal and Management :D
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:16 am

As soon as it said Ross and Smitty wish Journey continued success I knew they got a % pay....which is all they ever really wanted anyway!


(Says almost the exact same thing:)
https://www.spin.com/2021/04/journey-se ... 29plOPZCCU
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Hollywood » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:46 am

This is how it was always going to play out. I think the pandemic actually helped this situation as the only messiness that could have come out of it was two versions of Journey on the road as everyone in the Nightmare Inc partnership claimed to have rights to the name and likely did. Valory and Smith could have grabbed other players and gone out and really made a mess of thing until this had time to go through the court system.

At the end of the day, the band is a business and you can't deprive someone of the value of a partnership. Valory and Smith were bought out with cash or future earnings of the band. On paper a very simple process, personally and emotionally, not so much.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:50 am

Hollywood wrote:Valory and Smith could have grabbed other players and gone out and really made a mess of thing until this had time to go through the court system.


Smith and Valory could barely be bothered to learn new songs or rehearse. Not remotely in the realm of possibility.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 pm

Hollywood wrote:This is how it was always going to play out. I think the pandemic actually helped this situation as the only messiness that could have come out of it was two versions of Journey on the road as everyone in the Nightmare Inc partnership claimed to have rights to the name and likely did. Valory and Smith could have grabbed other players and gone out and really made a mess of thing until this had time to go through the court system.

At the end of the day, the band is a business and you can't deprive someone of the value of a partnership. Valory and Smith were bought out with cash or future earnings of the band. On paper a very simple process, personally and emotionally, not so much.


If people actually looked up the case they would see there was a ton of back and forth. Herbie did a deposition and there is this line, he must not be doing very well:
ORDER RE EX PARTE APPL TO PRESERVE THE TESTIMONY OF DEPO OF WALTER HERBERT DUE TO PRECARIOUS HEALTH

This was a deposition in support not striking parts of Ross's cross complaint:

DECLARATION OF WALTER HERBERT FILED RE: ISO OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFFS MOTION AND SPECIAL MO ION TO STRIKE FIRST AND SECOND COA

It would be nice to be able to view more documents...but this is a link to the details...

http://icms.cc-courts.org/tellme/tellme ... setype=CIV
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Onestepper » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:22 pm

As long as there is money to be made, lawsuits like this one are going to continue to be brought, and settlements continue to paid out. The details and arguments may be unique, but the end result is always the same.

Certain people get paid to just go away.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:25 pm

Onestepper wrote:As long as there is money to be made, lawsuits like this one are going to continue to be brought, and settlements continue to paid out. The details and arguments may be unique, but the end result is always the same.

Certain people get paid to just go away.

Well, first Valory and Smith are still on Nightmare's board...at least they haven't filed a change. So, they have not gone away. Neal and Jon took them to court partially because they thought they wanted to be paid for doing nothing. According to you, they settled and are paying Ross and Steve for doing nothing. Seems to me that Journey is paying for their retirement anyway.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Onestepper » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:36 pm

Monker wrote:
Onestepper wrote:As long as there is money to be made, lawsuits like this one are going to continue to be brought, and settlements continue to paid out. The details and arguments may be unique, but the end result is always the same.

Certain people get paid to just go away.

Well, first Valory and Smith are still on Nightmare's board...at least they haven't filed a change. So, they have not gone away. Neal and Jon took them to court partially because they thought they wanted to be paid for doing nothing. According to you, they settled and are paying Ross and Steve for doing nothing. Seems to me that Journey is paying for their retirement anyway.


Ahh so you think after all this, Neal and Jon are going to be asking Valory and Smith their opinions on how a chorus should sound, or how many lights to use when they tour? Okay.

Bands pay guys to shut up and get out of their way all of the time, whether they remain part of the administrative structure or not. See: Eagles, Don Felder.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:03 pm

Onestepper wrote:
Monker wrote:
Onestepper wrote:As long as there is money to be made, lawsuits like this one are going to continue to be brought, and settlements continue to paid out. The details and arguments may be unique, but the end result is always the same.

Certain people get paid to just go away.

Well, first Valory and Smith are still on Nightmare's board...at least they haven't filed a change. So, they have not gone away. Neal and Jon took them to court partially because they thought they wanted to be paid for doing nothing. According to you, they settled and are paying Ross and Steve for doing nothing. Seems to me that Journey is paying for their retirement anyway.


Ahh so you think after all this, Neal and Jon are going to be asking Valory and Smith their opinions on how a chorus should sound


No, and I doubt they were ever asked to contribute in that way.

or how many lights to use when they tour? Okay.


Thru Nightmare, Smith and Valory have the ability to tell Journey how many lights can be used on tour.

Bands pay guys to shut up and get out of their way all of the time, whether they remain part of the administrative structure or not. See: Eagles, Don Felder.


That's not what happened. Neal took them to court because he felt they were trying to take over Journey by being placed on the board at Nightmare....and trying to fund retirement without doing any work. So, now they are on the board at Nightmare and, according to you, getting paid by Journey to do nothing. It was a huge waste of time.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:54 am

Monker wrote:That's not what happened. Neal took them to court because he felt they were trying to take over Journey by being placed on the board at Nightmare....and trying to fund retirement without doing any work. So, now they are on the board at Nightmare and, according to you, getting paid by Journey to do nothing. It was a huge waste of time.


You keep saying Neal took them to court, as if Jonathan doesn't exist. If nothing else came out of the lawsuit other than new music, it's a win.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby JourneyHard » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:22 pm

From what I understand, Perry's deal with Journey to get % of albums and tours has run out. So, I am surprised Perry doesn't do one new song with Journey with the conditions he gets % of future albums and future tours. I guess Perry has enough money. So, I am starting to think we will never see another Perry tour because that is where they money is and Perry seems to have enough money.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:53 pm

JourneyHard wrote:From what I understand, Perry's deal with Journey to get % of albums and tours has run out. So, I am surprised Perry doesn't do one new song with Journey with the conditions he gets % of future albums and future tours. I guess Perry has enough money. So, I am starting to think we will never see another Perry tour because that is where they money is and Perry seems to have enough money.


Perry is 70something years old. He can release an album whenever he wants on Frontiers, or any label like that. He simply doesn't need Journey for anything. There was never going to be another Perry tour with Journey because Perry doesn't want anything to do with the band.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby jrnyman28 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:20 pm

Is it possible that Perry's % has bottomed out but not ended? Either way, he has no need nor desire to work with Journey. He has been very smart with investments and business decisions. He will forever be tied by the music they created. And he can be creatively happy without them.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:47 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:Is it possible that Perry's % has bottomed out but not ended?


The Elmo deal was posted here once before that described this. He got a certain % of album and tours for each album, and it went down after each. I thought it read something like "...and %13 after the third album." So, I think you are right but it would take looking up that agreement to be sure.

Either way, he has no need nor desire to work with Journey. He has been very smart with investments and business decisions. He will forever be tied by the music they created. And he can be creatively happy without them.


Exactly....if he was going to do it, it would have happened already.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:19 pm

Perry's % with the new albums may have run out. However, with touring, he still gets paid "like a motherfucker" (to quote Neal).
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:53 pm

The Elmo agreement says that Perry gets 12.5% of all albums, tours and misc income. It does not expire or run out.

https://mms.businesswire.com/media/2020 ... download=1

Page 24 -27

New Joumev Masters. In connection with all exploitation of the New
Journey masters (the "Masters"), Perry shall be entitled to the following shares of Net Master
Income (as defined below): (i) with regard to the first two New Journey albums, a sum equal to
fifty percent (50%) of the Net Master Income in connection with such albums; (ii) with regard to
the third New Journey album, a sum equal to twenty -five percent ( 25%) of the Net Master
Income in connection with such album; and (iii ) with regard to the fourth and all subsequent New
Journey albums, a sum equal to Twelve and one-half percent (12.5%) of the Net Master Income ill
connection with such album(s).
"Net Master Income" shall mean all sums due to Schon or Cain,
whichever is greater, in connection with the New Journey pursuant to the recording agreement
between Schon and Cain as the New Journey and Sony (or any other applicable record
company ) , including, without limitation, advances and royalties, after recoupment of all
applicable amounts that are recoupablc by Sony or the applicable record company from record
royalties pursuant to such recording agreement, including any recording costs, as that term is
defined in said recording agreement, paid by the New Journey in excess of any fund amounts,
less only actual management commissions up to a maximum of fifteen percent (15% )
("Management Commissions") and actual, reasonable out-of-pocket third-party accounting fees
paid solely due to an audit to recover monies in connection with the New Journey Masters, up to
a maximum of five percent (5%), which shall be payable out of such audit recovery ("Master
Accounting Fees"). In the event that the New Journey incurs legal expenses in connection with
the New Journey Masters, the actual, reasonable out-of-pocket legal fees may be deducted in
calculating Net Master Income ("Master Legal Fees" ), provided that, by way of clarification,
only legal fees paid for services rendered after the date of the execution of this agreement may be
deducted hereunder. Notwithstanding anything contained in the foregoing, in no event shall the
Net Master Income be less than twenty percent ( 20%) of the total amount earned by the New
Journey in connection with the exploitation of the Masters, after recoupment of all applicable
amounts that are recoupable by Sony or the applicable record company from record royalties
pursuant to such recording agreement (other than any advances in which Perry does not share,
which shall not be deductible), less Management Commissions and Master Legal Fees, if any.
Perry's share of Net Master Income shall be payable without regard to the recoupment status of
any other sources of New Journey income (e.g., the Net Tour Income and Net Miscellaneous
Income discussed below). Schon and Cain will instruct Sony or any other applicable record
company to pay to Perry Perry’s share of Net Master Income directly, at the same time as Schon
and Cain are paid pursuant to such recording agreement, and Schon and Cain agree to sign any
additional documents reasonably necessary in this regard, including, without limitation, the letter
of direction attached hereto as Exhibit A. In the event that Perry receives a direct payment as set
forth in the immediately preceding sentence and Schon and Cain provide written notice to Perry
that Management Commissions and/or Master Legal Fees are due in connection with said
payment as provided herein, Perry will reimburse Schon and Cain therefor or Schon and Cain
may deduct such amounts from other sums due to Perry hereunder.

Tour Income. In connection with all New Journey tours (the "Tours"),
Perry shall be entitled to the following shares of Net Tpur Income (as defined below): (i ) with
regard to the first two New Journey Tours in support of the first two New Journey albums, a sum
equal to fifty percent (50%) of the Net Tour Income in connection with such Tours; (il) with
regard to the third New Journey Tour in support of the third New Journey album, a sum equal to
twenty-five percent (25%) of the Net Tour Income in connection with such Tour; and (iii) with
regard to the fourth and all subsequent New Journey Tours in support of the fourth and all
subsequent New Journey albums , a sum equal to twelve and one-half percent (12.5%) of the Net
Tour Income in connection with such Tour(s) .
The applicable tour cycle will commence upon
the start of the Tour and continue until Schcm and/or Cain begin recording the subsequent New
Journey album. "Net Tour Income" shall mean Schon or Cain's share, whichever is greater, of all
revenues earned by the New Journey in connection with the applicable Tour (including, without
limitation, tour merchandise, tour sponsorship income and any tour support payments), after
deducting only direct, actual expenses paid by the New Journey in connection with the Tour
(excluding any salaries paid to Schon, Cain or any other member of the New Journey), including
any Management Commissions, the actual, reasonable out -of-pocket third-party accounting fees
paid solely in connection with the Tour ("Tour Accounting Fees") and any actual out-of-pocket
agency commissions paid solely in connection , vyith such Tour up to a maximum of ten percent
(10%) ("Tour Agency Commissions"). In the event that the New Journey incurs legal expenses
in connection with die Tour, the actual, reasonable out-of-pocket legal fees paid by the New
Journey may be deducted in calculating Net Tour Income ("Tour Legal Fees"). Notwithstanding
anything contained in the foregoing, in no event shall the Net Tour Income be less than twenty
percent (20%) of the total amount earned by the New Journey in connection with the Tours, after
deducting only direct, actual expenses paid by the New Journey in connection with the Tour
(excluding any salaries paid to Schon, Cain or any other member of the New Journey), including
Management Commissions, Tour Accounting Fees, Tour Agency Commissions, and Tour Legal
Fees, if any. Perry ' s share of Net Tour Income shall be payable without regard to the
recoupment status of any other sources of New Journey income (c.g., the Net Master Income and
Net Miscellaneous Income). Perry's share of Net Tour Income shall be payable within five (5)
business days after Schon and/or Cain receive any payments representing their net share of such
Tour income .

Net Miscellaneous Income. In connection with all other income derived
from Schon and/or Cain 's use of the Name separate from the exploitation of New Journey
Masters and Tours, including, without limitation, retail merchandise and endorsements, Perry
shall be entitled to the following shares of all Net Miscellaneous Income (as defined below): (i)
with regard to such income earned following the release of the first two New Journey albums
until the release of the third New Journey album, a sum equal to fifty percent (50%) of the Net
Miscellaneous Income; (ii) with regard to such income earned following the release of the third
New Journey album until the release of the fourth New Journey album, a sum equal to twentyfive
percent (25%) of the Net Miscellaneous Income; and (iii) with regard to such income earned
following the release of the fourth and all subsequent New Journey albums, a sum equal to
twelve and one-half percent (12.5%) of the Net Miscellaneous Income .
" Net Miscellaneous
Income" shall mean Schon or Cain's share, whichever is greater, of all revenues earned by the
New Journey in connection with sources of revenue other than in connection with the New
Journey Masters and Tours, less only direct, actual expenses paid by the New Journey in
connection with such income, including Management Commissions, the actual, reasonable outof-
pocket third-party accounting fees paid solely in connection with such income
("Miscellaneous Accounting Fees") and any actual out-of-pocket agency commissions paid
solely in connection with such income up to a maximum of ten percent (10%) ("Miscellaneous
Agency Commissions"). In the event that the New Journey incurs legal expenses in connection
with sources of revenue other than in connection with the New Journey Masters and Tours or due
to an audit to recover such monies, the actual, reasonable out-of-pocket legal fees paid by the
New Journey ( " Miscellaneous Legal Fees") may be deducted in calculating Net Miscellaneous
Income. Notwithstanding anything contained in the foregoing, in no event shall the Net
Miscellaneous Income be less than twenty percent (20%) of the total amount earned by the New
Journey in connection with such revenue sources, less only direct, actual expenses paid by the .
New Journey in connection with such income, including Management Commissions,
Miscellaneous Accounting Fees, Miscellaneous Agency Commissions and Miscellaneous Legal
Fees , if any . Perry's share of Net Miscellaneous Income shall bepayable . without regard to. . the
recoupment status of any other sources of New Journey income (e.g., the Net Master Income and
Net Tour Income). Perry's share of Net Miscellaneous Income shall be payable within five (5)
business days after Sehon and/or Cain receive any payments representing their net share of such
income .
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby JourneyHard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:12 pm

I didn't mean Perry touring WITH Journey. I mean Perry touring SOLO will never happen. Before I thought maybe he would tour SOLO one more time, but it doesn't look like it.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby ebake02 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:40 am

Monker wrote:
JourneyHard wrote:From what I understand, Perry's deal with Journey to get % of albums and tours has run out. So, I am surprised Perry doesn't do one new song with Journey with the conditions he gets % of future albums and future tours. I guess Perry has enough money. So, I am starting to think we will never see another Perry tour because that is where they money is and Perry seems to have enough money.


Perry is 70something years old. He can release an album whenever he wants on Frontiers, or any label like that. He simply doesn't need Journey for anything. There was never going to be another Perry tour with Journey because Perry doesn't want anything to do with the band.


There will never be another Perry concert or tour at all ever, solo or with Journey. If he had any interest in doing any kind of live show then he would have a couple years ago when he was making the media rounds pushing Traces.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby JourneyHard » Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:29 pm

ebake02 wrote:There will never be another Perry concert or tour at all ever, solo or with Journey. If he had any interest in doing any kind of live show then he would have a couple years ago when he was making the media rounds pushing Traces.


I am starting to agree with you. The last year would have been perfect if Perry wanted to do something. He could have done a full concert in an empty concert hall somewhere and recorded it and had a special on some channel or streaming or something. When people were stuck at home all year, they were starved for entertainment. A new Perry concert might have went over big. This is just further proof Perry doesn't want to tour or do anything like that.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Monker » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:05 pm

JourneyHard wrote:
ebake02 wrote:There will never be another Perry concert or tour at all ever, solo or with Journey. If he had any interest in doing any kind of live show then he would have a couple years ago when he was making the media rounds pushing Traces.


I am starting to agree with you. The last year would have been perfect if Perry wanted to do something. He could have done a full concert in an empty concert hall somewhere and recorded it and had a special on some channel or streaming or something. When people were stuck at home all year, they were starved for entertainment. A new Perry concert might have went over big. This is just further proof Perry doesn't want to tour or do anything like that.


You guys should have known this back when he did the Eels shows and could barely sing any version of a Journey song.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby bellairepark73 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:53 am

Monker wrote:
JourneyHard wrote:
ebake02 wrote:There will never be another Perry concert or tour at all ever, solo or with Journey. If he had any interest in doing any kind of live show then he would have a couple years ago when he was making the media rounds pushing Traces.


I am starting to agree with you. The last year would have been perfect if Perry wanted to do something. He could have done a full concert in an empty concert hall somewhere and recorded it and had a special on some channel or streaming or something. When people were stuck at home all year, they were starved for entertainment. A new Perry concert might have went over big. This is just further proof Perry doesn't want to tour or do anything like that.


You guys should have known this back when he did the Eels shows and could barely sing any version of a Journey song.


ummm....I beg to differ. He got right back into his stride after 1 show. The fact that he did 3 of them was incredible. If Perry thought his voice was trash, he would have NEVER had done any of them. And yes, he did sing them WELL. And DO NOT FORGET, that he did the spontaneous song on the red carpet at the NEED FOR SPEED premiere in 2014. And I and 200 others heard him live, acapella in Rhode Island at the breast cancer event, in 2019. He was so SMOOTH, with no roughness in his voice, AT ALL.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:35 am

bellairepark73 wrote:ummm....I beg to differ. He got right back into his stride after 1 show. The fact that he did 3 of them was incredible. If Perry thought his voice was trash, he would have NEVER had done any of them. And yes, he did sing them WELL. And DO NOT FORGET, that he did the spontaneous song on the red carpet at the NEED FOR SPEED premiere in 2014. And I and 200 others heard him live, acapella in Rhode Island at the breast cancer event, in 2019. He was so SMOOTH, with no roughness in his voice, AT ALL.


Didn't he do 3 songs with Eels at each show? Using basic math, he's performed 11 songs live in almost 30 years. Not really the strongest case that he is going to tour someday. It's over.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby Onestepper » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 am

Oh good grief. The guy did a multi-week media tour during the launch of Traces. At any one of those interviews, he could have done a live song under the most controlled and preferred circumstances for him to sound his best. He did none.

It's just amazing that people can't see what is right in front of their eyes.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby ebake02 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:00 am

bellairepark73 wrote:
ummm....I beg to differ. He got right back into his stride after 1 show. The fact that he did 3 of them was incredible. If Perry thought his voice was trash, he would have NEVER had done any of them. And yes, he did sing them WELL. And DO NOT FORGET, that he did the spontaneous song on the red carpet at the NEED FOR SPEED premiere in 2014. And I and 200 others heard him live, acapella in Rhode Island at the breast cancer event, in 2019. He was so SMOOTH, with no roughness in his voice, AT ALL.


He sounds great for someone who's 70 years old and I thought his voice was good on Traces but let's be real, I can't see him attempting an entire Journey song or even his earlier solo work at this point without tuning it down so far that it sounds bad.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby bellairepark73 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:08 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
bellairepark73 wrote:ummm....I beg to differ. He got right back into his stride after 1 show. The fact that he did 3 of them was incredible. If Perry thought his voice was trash, he would have NEVER had done any of them. And yes, he did sing them WELL. And DO NOT FORGET, that he did the spontaneous song on the red carpet at the NEED FOR SPEED premiere in 2014. And I and 200 others heard him live, acapella in Rhode Island at the breast cancer event, in 2019. He was so SMOOTH, with no roughness in his voice, AT ALL.


Didn't he do 3 songs with Eels at each show? Using basic math, he's performed 11 songs live in almost 30 years. Not really the strongest case that he is going to tour someday. It's over.


Sorry TNC. I WASN'T responding to the comment that he would not tour again. If he had wanted to do anything live, he would do YT live. I was responding to the comment that his voice was supposedly bad and that he can't do one entire Journey song. I was there for the event in RI and he did the entire OPEN ARMS song and he sounded great. That's all I was saying/replying/responding to.
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Re: Settlement Reached

Postby bellairepark73 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:08 am

Onestepper wrote:Oh good grief. The guy did a multi-week media tour during the launch of Traces. At any one of those interviews, he could have done a live song under the most controlled and preferred circumstances for him to sound his best. He did none.

It's just amazing that people can't see what is right in front of their eyes.


I WASN'T responding to the comment that he would not tour again. If he had wanted to do anything live, he would do YT live. I was responding to the comment that his voice was supposedly bad and that he can't do one entire Journey song. I was there for the event in RI and he did the entire OPEN ARMS song and he sounded great. That's all I was saying/replying/responding to.
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