Classic Journey

[jrnyman28]

YOU sure do GIVE us "couple Perry fans" posting here a lot of Power with your statement above! After all there is FAR MORE fans of the current line up here, than Perry fans here.

I was thinking about this. It shows 40 votes on this poll. But as far as I can tell there are really only about 8 regular posters on here. And it is a pretty even split on the support. Throw Monker's occassional posts on the Journey side and through OhSherrie's occasional posts on the Perry side and you are still pretty balanced.

There are several other Journey fans that don't really get involved in the debates. Maybe we should make a simple poll/thread that asks Do you support Journey or Perry. Everyone vote ONE time AND make ONE post to attach a name to the vote. Just curious...

[perryfaithful]

And it's funny, but I do not feel like I need defending. I have lost my head in the past. I am sure OhSherrie remembers a few times. I have learned from my mistakes. But I have also learned that I will deal with my words and actions. I don't need anyone else to defend them. It is a nice offer and it is a gesture I can return. But this is a website forum. Nothing else.

Lost your head Dave? I do not think so....passionate about a subject maybe but never disrespectful!! Maybe ohsherrie will disagree, but I sure don't remember you calling her a fat buck toothed pig (or something to rival that) because you did not care for her take. You have not been out purposefully harassing folk because they don't agree with you.

You misunderstood what I was saying about "defending" you. I am talking about if the tables were turned. IF a "perry only" fan started
"personally" attacking you in the same way Noble Cause (Tornado Jackson) has treated the women here who are huge Perry fans. Understand?

Yes this a website forum....nothing else and I do not wish to see it go down either. Sorry though, some things are just not acceptable to me, whether on a website or in my front yard or ANYWHERE

Thanks Dave

[The_Noble_Cause]

..I sure don't remember you calling her a fat buck toothed pig (or something to rival that) because you did not care for her take. You have not been out purposefully harassing folk because they don't agree with you.

Lies.
My crude "buck toothed pig" rejoinder was made in response to your baseless and incendiary insinuation that me and Yak are the same person. You have done it on multiple occasions now, even going so far at times to refer to him as my "evil twin".
You weren't expressing an intelligent opinion on the band Journey.
You were here slinging mud (as you always do) and now someone has finally slung right back.

[Andrew]

Ok, enough fighting and NO MORE INSULTS - PLEASE!

Have some respect for each other....

[Rockindeano]

Andrew-

I know you have the best rock n roll site on the web, and you do a wonderful job as mod..but this is good excitement, and it does show how passionate the Journey folks are..Look at the Leppard or VH sites...I would rather watch my fish swim around aimlessly than go to those boards.. You do what you want, but I think it is a good thing there is the interest..however, saying that, this particular thread is pure shit..

[ohsherrie]

LOL...you guys were making up all kinds of things to support this bogus theory..just as you are now. You ignored all of the contrary evidence, just as you do now. There is simply no evidence that it exists.

There is no contrary evidence.

The people who want to believe in some weird conspiracy theory alloy their imagination to fill in the blanks to make it 'possible', when it isn't.

Oh, you mean as when you try to make people believe Steve had no hip surgery?

Of course they didn't comment on it - SINCE IT IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT THAT THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO COMMENT ON!

If there was no such document then saying there wasn't wouldn't be commenting on the contents of the document.

At least there are people who claim to be abducted. Name one artist in the history of the music itself that had such a clause in their contracts. In fact, name one person who signed such an agreement when they LEFT their place of employment...if you can, they must be wearing a dunce cap, because they did something VERY stupid. "I quit...But, I'll sing this document that says I can't work for any competing company..." Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I don't have to name an example because anyone with any common sense knows that this sort of thing happens in business agreements every day. Perhaps not this exact thing, but the equivalent. But then again, why should I expect common sense from you?

Oh, please. The songs Cain wrote for Bad English alone equate what Perry did on Street Talk.

Simply not true.

And, Perry's FTLOSM wasn't very noteworthy either.

At least I heard it on the radio.

That is no different then saying that Arrival's songs were 'hit worthy'. The bottom line is that neither the pre-Escape Journey nor the Augeri led Journey burned up the charts like the Escape/Fronteirs Journey.

At least they were, and still are, on the radio.

You just don't want to accept it for the pre-Escape Journey since it would mean that Perry was not THE reason for ALL of Journey's success.

You just can't accept, dispite the overwhelming evidence, that they wouldn't have made it without him.

[The_Noble_Cause]

LOL...you guys were making up all kinds of things to support this bogus theory..just as you are now. You ignored all of the contrary evidence, just as you do now. There is simply no evidence that it exists.

There is no contrary evidence.

Sure there is. If Perry is currently contractually bound NOT to release any competing music, then why did he release "I Stand Alone" for the Quest for Camelot soundtrack in 1998? Furthermore, why is he now helping Jeff Galub on a couple tracks? Wouldn't that be a breach of contract?

Besides, if this contract DOES exist, why was Perry so reluctant to tour with Journey even back during ROR? Let me guess, was he contractually bound by his "Street Talk" studio musicians not to hit the road? Come on!

The people who want to believe in some weird conspiracy theory alloy their imagination to fill in the blanks to make it 'possible', when it isn't.

Oh, you mean as when you try to make people believe Steve had no hip surgery?

Both Neal and Herbie are on record claiming they don't believe the hip thing happened. Plus, looking at Perry's overall track record (refusing to finish the ROR tour, cutting his solo tour short, refusing to sing at Herbie's roast or to contribute new vocals to Time3)and then factoring into account Perry's own open admissions about his reluctant to tour with Journey and one has to at least admit that they might be onto something.

At least there are people who claim to be abducted. Name one artist in the history of the music itself that had such a clause in their contracts. In fact, name one person who signed such an agreement when they LEFT their place of employment...if you can, they must be wearing a dunce cap, because they did something VERY stupid. "I quit...But, I'll sing this document that says I can't work for any competing company..." Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I don't have to name an example because anyone with any common sense knows that this sort of thing happens in business agreements every day. Perhaps not this exact thing, but the equivalent. But then again, why should I expect common sense from you?

Wrong. Try again.
Sony guru, Steve Perry friend, and current Sanctuary records CEO, John Kalodner, is on record stating that things like that NEVER HAPPEN and are unheard of in the music business. Sorry.

[The_Noble_Cause]

At least there are people who claim to be abducted. Name one artist in the history of the music itself that had such a clause in their contracts. In fact, name one person who signed such an agreement when they LEFT their place of employment...if you can, they must be wearing a dunce cap, because they did something VERY stupid. "I quit...But, I'll sing this document that says I can't work for any competing company..." Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I don't have to name an example because anyone with any common sense knows that this sort of thing happens in business agreements every day. Perhaps not this exact thing, but the equivalent. But then again, why should I expect common sense from you?

Question: There are rumors about that the reason Steve Perry dropped out of site musically, since Trial By Fire, (which I loved by the way) was that he signed some type of contract with the remaining members of Journey that he wouldn't record/perform for a specified amount of time....and that time may be soon ending. Would this be true? Certainly this type of clause is seen in the business world all the time, but with entertainers?????? Please fill me in. Also, why do you list Journey tour dates when they no longer work for Sony?


John Kalodner: Those rumors about a non-competitive clause are totally false and in general these provisions do not exist in the entertainment industry except in the case of some executives. I think everyone would like to know why Steve Perry isn’t with Journey, but the only person who really knows that is Steve Perry. I wish I did and I wish he would tour and record with the band. The reason I list Journey tour dates on my website, even though they’re not with Columbia, is that even without Steve Perry, I still like and respect the band and their music and hope people will go see them. It’s not without some aggravation to me and my Web Mistress, Miss Storm, as some fanatical fans seem to take their frustration with the whole singer situation out on myself and

[perryfaithful]

Both Neal and Herbie are on record claiming they don't believe the hip thing happened..

Perry does a radio interview right after the surgery when he is still on crutches and talks about the titanium implant. Surely that rates over Neals and Herberts speculation now. I am surprised anyone would go there!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Both Neal and Herbie are on record claiming they don't believe the hip thing happened..

Perry does a radio interview right after the surgery when he is still on crutches and talks about the titanium implant. Surely that rates over Neals and Herberts speculation now. I am surprised anyone would go there!

Yeah, and there were also reports of him down playing his "hip problem" on the radio one time. As I recall, fans wrote in asking him about his hip and then when faced with the question on-air he was thrown off guard as if he didn't even know what the DJ was talking about. There was also that testimonial years back of him being seen riding his motorcycle without any problems-no crutches-nothing. I have looked for the links, but I can't find them. Maybe other posters will have a more clear memory on all this. I am not stating this as fact, but at the same time, other explanations do exist and do seem much more credible (i.e. read Herbie's interview).

But listen, this is all hearsay, you can debate this until the cows come home. Nobody knows. I don't believe that Herbie and Neal would lie about Perry just for purposes of slander. I don't believe that. They may be a little crass or abrasive at times, but they are not flat-out reprobate scum bags.

You can take Perry's word on the hip thing if you want, but I choose not to. I believe his record of recalictrancy (in regards to touring) more than speaks for itself.

[ohsherrie]

I have lost my head in the past. I am sure OhSherrie remembers a few times.

Would that all of us would lose our heads with as much class and grace as you do.

I don't entirely disagree with you that the musical and music industry trends and climate have a lot to do with how a group or artist is received. I don't however agree that the failure of Arrival as compared to the success of TBF can be completely blamed on that. I think the absence of Steve Perry played a much larger part in their downfall. As for FTLOSM, it certainly wasn't as big a hit a Street Talk and I'm sure Steve's success with Journey helped sell Street Talk, but FTLOSM did better than Arrival.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "hit worthy" because even though none of the songs from the first three albums were huge hits they still did better than anything from Arrival. I don't think you can blame that on the industry either because Journey was struggling for it's place in the music scene then too, and fighting the critics to do so.

If you really think about it, it's pretty ridiculous to even compare the success of Journey with Steve Perry to what the band has done since. They're just not in the same league anymore. Steve's voice was what put the songs out there and drew the fans regardless of who wrote them. It was that voice that set Journey apart from the pack at the time and is still recognized as the voice of Journey. Maybe some of the songs from Arrival would have done better with Steve's vocal and writing(a word, phrase or chord progression here and there)touch. We'll never know.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't think you can blame that on the industry either because Journey was struggling for it's place in the music scene then too, and fighting the critics to do so.

Yeah, but that was during a time where rock music was much more the mainstream. What bands like Journey are still burning up the charts today the same way they did back in their 70's-80s hey day? The only one that comes close is Aerosmith and they are sell outs (anyone see the MTV rap tribute to Aersomith? Blechh!).
Def Leppards last album flopped, Tom Petty's last album flopped, Meatloaf's last album tanked, Styx's album tanked, Poison's album tanked, so did many others. From what I can gather, the dismally grossing Arrival is in some pretty great company!

[Monker]

There is no contrary evidence.

That isn't how the world works. There is no contrary evidence that Perry was abducted by aliens either, so by YOUR standards you must believe that too.

Oh, you mean as when you try to make people believe Steve had no hip surgery?

Quote one single post where I did the above. I have always said that I don't know if he had any injury, or not. I do believe there is a LOT of evidence, even from Perry himself, that his 'injury' was not as bad as many Perry fans want people to believe.

I don't have to name an example because anyone with any common sense knows that this sort of thing happens in business agreements every day. Perhaps not this exact thing, but the equivalent. But then again, why should I expect common sense from you?

LOL! Give ONE example in the entire history of the world where an employee signed a "non competition" document when they LEFT a company. You will find plenty when they were HIRED, but not when they left...you are simply ignorant of how such things work and you REFUSE to believe reality.

All you have to do is THINK for one moment...Would you sign ANYTHING if you decided to leave a company or were fired? Only a nutcase would do such a thing.

You just can't accept, dispite the overwhelming evidence, that they wouldn't have made it without him.

There is no such evidence. You are talking about an alternate reality...you can not provide evidence of how some kinda alternate universe played out. All you can do is speculate and give opinion...and write fiction.

The FACT is that Journey wasn't burning up the charts with Infinity/Evolution/Departure. They had some minor hits...but NOTHING like Escape. We remember Journey's success because of the 80's not the first three albums with Steve Perry.

[perryfaithful]

[quote="Monker"][quote]

LOL! Give ONE example in the entire history of the world where an employee signed a "non competition" document when they LEFT a company. You will find plenty when they were HIRED, but not when they left...you are simply ignorant of how such things work and you REFUSE to believe reality.

Was common place in the pharmeutical industry when I worked in it!

[maci]

perryfaithful, i think that monker needs a reality check, In a interview with steve p. he has said that he is afraid that he wouldn't be the same after the surgery, i mean if he was walking with the help of a cane, he feels that the fans would not be there, he also said why would anyone want to pay to see a man perform with a cane. So maybe in all actuality when he decided to leave Journey, it could possibly be that he was tired of touring, on the road for 11 or 12 months. i admit it would get tiresome, being with the same people day in and day out for a year. i just get tired of some of the people i work with, but i'm able to leave, and get away from it all. but being on tour you really don't have a chance to get away, check into a hotel, staying away from fans, sneaking out of the hotel, hoping no body will see you. do a show, go back to the hotel, pack, get up and finish packing, making sure you have everything, back on the bus. then you start all over again. i'm sure they all got tired of it after a while. so maybe monker should take a step back, and take a good look at the whole picture, instead of just being bound and determined that he is completely right.........

[Monker]

LOL! Give ONE example in the entire history of the world where an employee signed a "non competition" document when they LEFT a company. You will find plenty when they were HIRED, but not when they left...you are simply ignorant of how such things work and you REFUSE to believe reality.

Was common place in the pharmeutical industry when I worked in it!

When you were HIRED you may have signed a 'no competition' contract...but not when you quit. You don't have to sign anything when you quit.

[Monker]

perryfaithful, i think that monker needs a reality check, In a interview with steve p. he has said that he is afraid that he wouldn't be the same after the surgery, i mean if he was walking with the help of a cane, he feels that the fans would not be there, he also said why would anyone want to pay to see a man perform with a cane.

and, after TBF was released Perry said in a radio interview, WHEN ASKED SPECIFICALY about the Hawaii incident, that he was 'fine'. On Surivor's official website, Jim Peterik said he was recording with Surivivor and Perry burst into his studio like a bat out of hell. When fans asked repeatedly about Perry's hip, he didn't even know he was injured.

YOU need a reality check if you believe Perry was lame after Hawaii...he wasn't. He may have needed surgery for some degenerative condition...but, he wasn't stuck in bed, walking about with crutches, or even a cane.

[perryfaithful]

[

YOU need a reality check if you believe Perry was lame after Hawaii...he wasn't. He may have needed surgery for some degenerative condition...but, he wasn't stuck in bed, walking about with crutches, or even a cane.

I am remembering a segment during the long version of BTM when Perry was applying ice to his hip between takes for the WYLAW video.

[heardonthestreet]

What don't you understand about before and after monker?

[yak]

I am remembering a segment during the long version of BTM when Perry was applying ice to his hip between takes for the WYLAW video.

There is SO much evidence, even if some of it is circumstantial, that the hip thing was bogus.

My question is this: Does anybody have POSITIVE PROOF that the hip thing DID happen? I have not seen any, but have read many accounts that pointed to evidence that it DIDN'T happen.

Perryfaithful, did you actually SEE Perry apply ice to his hip? Even if you were there in person, and he did in fact apply ice to his hip, it still doesn't prove he had a problem. I can apply ice to any part of my body, pretending I am hurting, and nobody can really know if it's the truth.

The truth would be in medical records, and since those are not for public consumption, the lie could be maintained.

Neal and the rest of the guys are angry/bitter about SOMETHING having to do with Perry. A bogus hip problem that could never be revealed, would explain a lot.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I am remembering a segment during the long version of BTM when Perry was applying ice to his hip between takes for the WYLAW video.

For clarification,
In BTM, Perry does mention that in between takes of WYLAW they had to put ice on hip, but there is no footage of it. The segment goes like this...Perry mentions how he needed ice put on his hip inbetween takes and they then proceed to show a snippet of footage filmed in between takes of WYLAW where Perry is clearly bent over, his back arched, his face near the camera as if he is doing something..maybe stretching? They also show some footage of him sort kinda making a grimace while looking into the camera. But none of it is confirmative. For all we know he was getting fed up standing there waiting for the cameras to be ready.

So YES, Perry does mention the "ice on the hip" in BTM but no actual footage is shown of that. To the less discerning viewer, the way it is edited & spliced together, one could easily think the footage corresponds to the ice story (and vice-a-versa)-but it doesnt.

[maci]

yak! i guess you haven't heard the interview on behind the music, when they interviewed steve p. he said it himself that he had a hip problem. how do you know that it's not bogus, what proof do you have on that. i guess nothing, since all you seem to do is knock what everybody is saying. have you personally talked to steve p. about this problem you believe he doesn't have??? i know i haven't. but only what i've heard him, and the rest of the group had to say, and they were saying the same thing, that he needed surgery. [b] why must you keep on bashing him, when we all have different opinions. I think you need to join monker for that reality check. and soon.

[The_Noble_Cause]

and the rest of the group had to say, and they were saying the same thing, that he needed surgery.

That's simply not true.

Neal and Herbie don't think the hip ordeal was legitimate. Neal said as much in a classicrock.com interview (among others). Herbie stated he thought it was a crock in his infamous interview. Neal HAS conceded that Perry might have had some sort of minor problem as we all do as we age, but thinks it was aggrandized as an excuse to get out of fulfilling touring obligations with Sony.
The only one member who I know of as being on record about totally believeing the hip story is Steve Smith.
Who when asked if Perry's hip problem was real stated "oh absolutely".

I've never really heard Ross give his thoughts either way.

When asked about Perry (in a radio interview last year) Cain attributed Perry's absence in the band as being on "major health issues".
Which is kind of a sweeping and ultimately ambiguous answer.

All I know is, Neal and Herbie are alot more privy to insider info than any of us, and I have no reason to suspect either of them of purposely lying.

Furthermore, when looking at Perry's overall track record (refusing to finish the ROR tour, cutting his solo tour short, refusing to sing at Herbie's roast or to contribute new vocals to Time3)and then also factoring into account Perry's own open admissions about his reluctance to tour with Journey one has to at least admit that they might be onto something.

Personally, I am of the belief that Perry's record of recalictrancy & reluctance (in regards to touring) more than speaks for itself. It still does to this day.

[Monker]

yak! i guess you haven't heard the interview on behind the music, when they interviewed steve p. he said it himself that he had a hip problem.

And, when asked about in radio interviews, a couple months after he supposedly 'injured' himself, he said he was 'fine'. So, which Steve Perry is lying...the one after he left Journey, or the one while he was still promoting TBF?

I think you need to join monker for that reality check. and soon.

I think you better answer the above first...It's Perry's contradictions that make this entire thing look suspicious. So, he was 'fine' months after Hawaii...and then a couple years later the story changes to having to hobble down a mountain and needing ice on his hip...One moment it's an 'injury', the next is it's a degenerative thing. Sometimes he's hiking, sometimes he's mountain climbing. Perry himself contradicted himself - repeatedly - during this entire time. Then you hear stories of Perry running about not showing any signs of being in need of surgery.

Did he have surgery? Probably...but I doubt very much that he was in as desperate need as some of you seem to believe.

[yak]

yak! i guess you haven't heard the interview on behind the music, when they interviewed steve p. he said it himself that he had a hip problem. how do you know that it's not bogus, what proof do you have on that. i guess nothing, since all you seem to do is knock what everybody is saying.

Would I be considered knocking what everybody is saying if I was agreeing with you? I am merely debating something I feel strongly about, and which to me, makes perfect sense.

have you personally talked to steve p. about this problem you believe he doesn't have???

Have you? Would you believe what somebody told you? Would you want proof? The only proof there is is in medical records, which are not for public consumption. Maybe when the group was saying he needed surgery they hadn't yet found out that there was no real need for surgery. You need to go back and read my post.

I think you need to join monker for that reality check. and soon.

works for me, if it works for Monker. But you are definitely the one who needs (albeit it would be a painful one) the reality check in this instance.

yaks post:

perryfaithful wrote:
I am remembering a segment during the long version of BTM when Perry was applying ice to his hip between takes for the WYLAW video.


There is SO much evidence, even if some of it is circumstantial, that the hip thing was bogus.

My question is this: Does anybody have POSITIVE PROOF that the hip thing DID happen? I have not seen any, but have read many accounts that pointed to evidence that it DIDN'T happen.

Perryfaithful, did you actually SEE Perry apply ice to his hip? Even if you were there in person, and he did in fact apply ice to his hip, it still doesn't prove he had a problem. I can apply ice to any part of my body, pretending I am hurting, and nobody can really know if it's the truth.

The truth would be in medical records, and since those are not for public consumption, the lie could be maintained.

Neal and the rest of the guys are angry/bitter about SOMETHING having to do with Perry. A bogus hip problem that could never be revealed, would explain a lot.

[ohsherrie]

You also have some good points Eric and I think on most of them all I can say is that we simply disagree.

1) Release Arrival with Augeri in the mid 80's and it is a hit. Release Escape in 2000-2005 with Perry and its not a hit. My point is......Perry couldn't even will Journey to a hit album I don't think - the public just isn't buying albums from older bands in MOST cases...ALTHOUGH a label may actually support a reunion so I could be a little wrong...

You may be right about what Steve could or couldn't do with Journey now, but I think there would be a better chance that he could lead them up the charts if they had left the Journey name and legacy intact until Steve was ready to do so. As for Augeri in the '80s, I don't even remember hearing of the groups that he sang with before. If he was that good I think I would have.

2) Cain did have hit magic with both the Babys and Bad English - more so than Perry had with Street Talk and didn't have with FTLOSM

I don't remember much about the Babys except the name, and that's only because it was a strange name for a group of grown men. I never cared for Bad English because I don't like John Waite's voice at all. The only song I remember from them is When I See You Smile and I don't think it was as big as Oh Sherrie. I really doubt that I'm alone.

3) The Pre-Cain rock songs are arguablys Journey's best, and still the most played on rock radio...BUT....they weren't the massive hits that propelled Journey to the top of the pop charts in the 80's....

But would Escape have reached the top if it hadn't gotten a boost from the name recognition gained by the previous albums? I think Escape had a better sound, and I don't deny that Jon had a lot to do with that, but I don't know that it would have gotten as big as it did without the lead-in of the previous songs that had been on the radio and charted.

I don't think you would even give Journey credit if they had songs that charted like Wheel in the Sky and albums that initially sold like Infinity...I really don't think you guys would say "good Job" if Journey's new release sold a million - I think it would be more like "Well, TBF sold 1.2".

You're right, I probably wouldn't. I don't want a band called Journey without Steve Perry. But I doubt they'll ever chart or sell that much of anything.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As for Augeri in the '80s, I don't even remember hearing of the groups that he sang with before. If he was that good I think I would have.

Typical low blow. As if to say that quality & talent is only measured by the amount of units ones' record sells. I guess the gazillion selling Britney Spears and 50 cent are musical geniuses then, right? Maybe you never heard of the amazingly talented Steve Augeri because he hit the music scene right when melodic rock was on its way out. Ever think of that?

I don't want a band called Journey without Steve Perry.

Am I missing something here? Is someone putting a gun to your head or twisting your arm to spend your hard earned money on this incarnation of the band? If you don't approve, then don't see their concerts, or buy their albums. It's that simple.

One thing is always certain in life: change. Be it in our relationships, our favorite soap opera, sports teams, rock bands...everything.

I don't know about everyone else, but whenever a change occurs in something in my life (particularly one for the worse), I move on.

You don't think there are currently bands out there that I am no longer intersted in?
Of course there are.
I just say, "this is no longer my bag." and move on.

Wish I understood what exactly prevents you people from doing the same.

[Andrew]

As stated plenty of times earlier - argue until the cows come home (I know you all will), just keep it insult free!

[jrnyman28]

I have lost my head in the past. I am sure OhSherrie remembers a few times.

Would that all of us would lose our heads with as much class and grace as you do.

Thank you.

I don't however agree that the failure of Arrival as compared to the success of TBF can be completely blamed on that.

I still don't look on TBF as a success. And I think TBF was helped by the gimmick of the reunion.

I think the absence of Steve Perry played a much larger part in their downfall.

While I do not agree with the term "downfall" I have never said that Perry's absence wasn't a factor. It sure was. But at the same time, Sony SIGNED the band minus Perry and still showed no faith in them. They even picked the songs that sounded MOST LIKE Perry-era Journey. I think that was a mistake too.

As for FTLOSM, it certainly wasn't as big a hit a Street Talk and I'm sure Steve's success with Journey helped sell Street Talk, but FTLOSM did better than Arrival.

Did it?

even though none of the songs from the first three albums were huge hits they still did better than anything from Arrival.

Did they?

Both Higher Place AND All The Way (not the strongest choice) charted in the top 100. I don't think anything from the 1st three Journey albums charted at all. I could be wrong though.

If you really think about it, it's pretty ridiculous to even compare the success of Journey with Steve Perry to what the band has done since.

I haven't been lately. I have been comparing Journey NOW with Perry solo then. And I think they are a lot closer to equal. Given the change in musical climate today, I think it is impressive that Journey are pretty equal to what Perry did 'back in the day'.

It was that voice that set Journey apart from the pack at the time

Absolutely true.

Maybe some of the songs from Arrival would have done better with Steve's vocal and writing(a word, phrase or chord progression here and there)touch. We'll never know.

I doubt it. But we will also never know if Journey could have become successful with Robert Fleischman in the band. Yet you stated that.

[jrnyman28]

I am remembering a segment during the long version of BTM when Perry was applying ice to his hip between takes for the WYLAW video.

Actually, I just watched that not too long ago. I did not seem him applying ice. He said he did, and they showed part of the 'making of the video' where Perry looked very tired. But he did not put ice on his hip. I couldn't even see a limp from the clip they chose.

But just so the record is straight, I do not think the hip problem was fake.