KICK JY OUT OF STYX

[sadie65]

Now, as I've said a million times before, out of all of them, DDY needs Styx the least from a financial standpoint. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to do Styx, but he doesn't need to do it 200+ days a year on the road. I'm sorry, touring I'm sure can be fun, but when you're on the road that much - and I know a bit about it - after awhile, it's work.

If I remember right, wasn't this one of the reasons for Glen Leaving. Doing this many shows in a year,didn't leave much family time for him. I know there was other problems with the other members to, but the 200 shows was one of the reasons.

If they did at least 100 shows a year (maybe hitting every state once and some other places like canada, uk) it would be ok with me. If you have a big crowd at one of the shows, then add another date for it later at the end of the year.

It would be more like 35 shows every 2 or 3 years with DDY.

Now now. We all know that's an exaggeration. He works more than he is given credit for. But at least he doesn't wear out his welcome

[ChicagoSTYX]

Now, as I've said a million times before, out of all of them, DDY needs Styx the least from a financial standpoint. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to do Styx, but he doesn't need to do it 200+ days a year on the road. I'm sorry, touring I'm sure can be fun, but when you're on the road that much - and I know a bit about it - after awhile, it's work.

If I remember right, wasn't this one of the reasons for Glen Leaving. Doing this many shows in a year,didn't leave much family time for him. I know there was other problems with the other members to, but the 200 shows was one of the reasons.

If they did at least 100 shows a year (maybe hitting every state once and some other places like canada, uk) it would be ok with me. If you have a big crowd at one of the shows, then add another date for it later at the end of the year.

It would be more like 35 shows every 2 or 3 years with DDY.

Now now. We all know that's an exaggeration. He works more than he is given credit for. But at least he doesn't wear out his welcome

I know but I really expect to see DDY slow down next year.

[bugsymalone]

Chicagostyx said:

It would be more like 35 shows every 2 or 3 years with DDY.

Sadie said:

Now now. We all know that's an exaggeration. He works more than he is given credit for. But at least he doesn't wear out his welcome

When he can go on a couple of TV programs and entertain 4 - 6 million people, suddenly, he doesn't need to do so many shows now does he?

Bugsy

[brywool]

I don't think they should kick out JY, but the fact that Glen didn't get more songs on Cyclo is a joke! JY is a great backup singer but a horrible lead singer (aside from Great White Hope). His solo album was laughable (the James Young Group CD wasn't bad).

I think if I was in a band where the whole Kilroy concept and tour was rammed down my throat, I'd be pissed at the guy who made me do it.

[StyxCollector]

Froy, there was no Edge 2.. Of course it didnt' sell.. It wasn't released!

Speaking of....does anyone have the demos of Edge2?

Glen, DDY, and JY do. Some were released (i.e. "It Takes Love") in other forms, but the "as-is" demos have not leaked at all. Trust me, I've been scouring.

Styx has done a great job over the years not letting this stuff escape, going back to the 70s.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

When he can go on a couple of TV programs and entertain 4 - 6 million people, suddenly, he doesn't need to do so many shows now does he?

Bugsy

Good one Bugsy!!! And that's AT LEAST 4-6 million people each time he has been on, for that Celebrity Duets, Canadian Idol and Star Academie!! HAH!!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I think if I was in a band where the whole Kilroy concept and tour was rammed down my throat, I'd be pissed at the guy who made me do it.

You know what's funny, Dennis didn't MAKE anyone do anything. They could've all got together back then and said or did something about it.

"Mr. Roboto" went to #3 on the charts!!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Froy, there was no Edge 2.. Of course it didnt' sell.. It wasn't released!

Speaking of....does anyone have the demos of Edge2?

Glen, DDY, and JY do. Some were released (i.e. "It Takes Love") in other forms, but the "as-is" demos have not leaked at all. Trust me, I've been scouring.

Styx has done a great job over the years not letting this stuff escape, going back to the 70s.

And if anyone would have any of this it would be YOU!!! And Jodes, since it seems he has a ton of "stuff" too

[StyxCollector]

I think if I was in a band where the whole Kilroy concept and tour was rammed down my throat, I'd be pissed at the guy who made me do it.

You know what's funny, Dennis didn't MAKE anyone do anything. They could've all got together back then and said or did something about it.

"Mr. Roboto" went to #3 on the charts!!

Tommy was not in the right frame of mind at that time ('nuff said), and no one held a gun to JY. I agree here.

I think the tour is where it went wrong, and DDY has even admitted that to some degree.

However, I think even if Kilroy hadn't been Kilroy, and it was a straightforward Styx album, Styx would have split up soon thereafter. I think the metal shift in the late 80s would have been a tough transition for the band.

[StyxCollector]

And if anyone would have any of this it would be YOU!!! And Jodes, since it seems he has a ton of "stuff" too

No one knows what I have lol Heck, I don't think I know all I have these days. I'm going to sort out my collection one of these years. But I can confidently say no Son of Edge demos.

I'm not even sure the guys in the band have that early demo stuff anymore, let alone any collectors. If anyone does, it would be DDY or the label's vaults. The only true unreleased track I know at least hit the demo stage was the Styx version of "Chain Me Down"in 1977, which was later replaced by "Miss America" on the album.

[Rockwriter]

I don't think they should kick out JY, but the fact that Glen didn't get more songs on Cyclo is a joke! JY is a great backup singer but a horrible lead singer (aside from Great White Hope). His solo album was laughable (the James Young Group CD wasn't bad).

I think if I was in a band where the whole Kilroy concept and tour was rammed down my throat, I'd be pissed at the guy who made me do it.

It's more complicated than that. Styx was a corporation with a board and a corporate partnership agreement. The partnership agreement spelled out certain rights, and one of those rights was that if a course of action were disputed, it would be put to a vote, with each man having an equal vote. So although the guys in Styx were not universally thrilled with the KILROY concept, they voted to do it. A mistake perhaps, but a mistake in which everyone played a role. The thing is, when you are in a leadership position and you make a decision that works well for everyone, then everyone wants to claim their part of it . . . but when it does not work, then everyone wants to distance themselves. As it always is with human beings, when you succeed, the whole world loves you, but when you fail, you fail alone. That's how KILROY was for Dennis, although I should pointout that it did not fail, it succeeded. But some of the band members did not like it.

I should also point out that almost every band has an album or two that emphasizes one or two members' tastes and contributions more than the others. It doesn't have to break up the band. I'd be surprised if Keith Richard would point to "Emotional Rescue" as his favorite work. I daresay Brian May doesn't regard "Body Language" or HOT SPACE as something that point out his contributions to Queen. I know Martin Barre thinks his guitar playing was buried during Jethro Tull's STORMWATCH period. That goes on all the time, but bands can survive if the members can then re-focus their collective efforts. Sometimes that means fighting it out to a draw. Part of why KILROY destroyed Styx was Dennis' insitence, that's true . . . but then again, the band would have survived if Tommy had not been out of his mind and gone off and quit instead of staying to fight for his particular tastes. There is blame enough to go around, as there always is.

I hope all is well.

Sterling[/i]

[Rockwriter]

And if anyone would have any of this it would be YOU!!! And Jodes, since it seems he has a ton of "stuff" too

No one knows what I have lol Heck, I don't think I know all I have these days. I'm going to sort out my collection one of these years. But I can confidently say no Son of Edge demos.

I'm not even sure the guys in the band have that early demo stuff anymore, let alone any collectors. If anyone does, it would be DDY or the label's vaults. The only true unreleased track I know at least hit the demo stage was the Styx version of "Chain Me Down"in 1977, which was later replaced by "Miss America" on the album.

I'd like to hear that, I bet that's a hoot, lol. I've always heard there was a Dennis "lost track" from PO8, a ballad-like song that would have pointed the way to "Babe" and all of that, but it got pulled from the record because they just didn't feel it fit the direction of the other songs. I think there may have been a full recording of that, but I've certaionly never heard of any fan having it. Probably gathering dust somewhere where one of the band members has forgotten they even have it, lol.

The other thing I've heard is that there were some very early TW4 demoes where they recorded some country songs in exchange for some studio time, but I've never heard those either. I think that would REALLY be interesting.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

[styxfansite]

Did I hear there is a copy of Lady or Babe (not sure which) floating around that Dennis, John and Chuck did in the basement of one of there houses playing to Suzanne? It might have been Suzanne saying this to someone. If it is a recording, that would be nice to have.

What about unfinished song? Was it ever played anywhere besides on Wodden Nickel?


Thanks

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Did I hear there is a copy of Lady or Babe (not sure which) floating around that Dennis, John and Chuck did in the basement of one of there houses playing to Suzanne? It might have been Suzanne saying this to someone. If it is a recording, that would be nice to have.

What about unfinished song? Was it ever played anywhere besides on Wodden Nickel?


Thanks

I'm assuming there's a recorded copy that Suzanne has of Babe with Dennis, Chuck, John and I think Gary too. I thought it was done at Gary's studio and recorded there. It would be GREAT to have a copy of that, you're right!!!

"Unfinished Song" was played live only once and that was last year at the HOB Chicago. From my understanding (oops, I'm bragging WiseGuy) that it will never be played again. Dennis did mention that in my interview (oops, I'm plugging my tv show WiseGuy).

[stabbim]

Did I hear there is a copy of Lady or Babe (not sure which) floating around that Dennis, John and Chuck did in the basement of one of there houses playing to Suzanne? It might have been Suzanne saying this to someone. If it is a recording, that would be nice to have.

I'm assuming there's a recorded copy that Suzanne has of Babe with Dennis, Chuck, John and I think Gary too. I thought it was done at Gary's studio and recorded there. It would be GREAT to have a copy of that, you're right!!!

I was under the impression that the version of "Babe" which made it to the record was the original demo performance, just with a few overdubs (trying to remember the cite -- maybe DDY's Songwriter interview.) Anyone have the definitive lowdown on that?

[styxfansite]

From my understanding (oops, I'm bragging WiseGuy) that it will never be played again. Dennis did mention that in my interview (oops, I'm plugging my tv show WiseGuy).

I wonder why he doesn't want to play it? It is a great song (to me). It sounded finished to..

Thanks

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I was under the impression that the version of "Babe" which made it to the record was the original demo performance, just with a few overdubs (trying to remember the cite -- maybe DDY's Songwriter interview.) Anyone have the definitive lowdown on that?

Here's from the Songwriter Interview

Songwriter: Which one of your songs do you like best?

DeYoung: Probably Babe, although Lady has stood the test of time. Babe will too. You have to go with the one people like most.

Songwriter: Speaking of which, how did you come to write Babe?

DeYoung: It was getting close to my wife's birthday, around the time for the "Pieces of Eight" tour. I had been going on the road and leaving my wife and our first child for six years. In the beginning it had seemed justifiable, because I had that tremendous ambition. But when I'd become successful, that ambition waned a little bit; I didn't have that same tunnel vision, where I could only see one thing. I began to see how much everything else in my life matters.

So, to make a long story longer, l wanted to tell my wife how much I really needed her and missed her when I had to travel. So I wrote Babe for her as a birthday present. It was a song really about separation. I call her "babe." As I found out later, almost every man calls his girl or wife "babe," which I think is part of the tune's universal appeal. I didn't know that when I did the song. Actually I questioned whether or not I should use that word because I knew about the perfume by that name, and the fact that there was a certain amount of commerciality attached to the word that I did not like. But I said, "Well the truth is that is the way I refer to her as. Since that's the bottom line, I'm going to use 'babe'!" So I wrote the words and I went in to do a demo because I wanted to give her the tape. It was just drums/bass/ keyboard, and I sang all of the parts. I gave it to her on her birthday.

Songwriter: Did you intend for Babe to become a Styx record?

DeYoung: I never really thought too much about it, except that I really liked the way the studio sounded. I thought, "This demo sounds better than the goddamned albums we have been making for the past couple of years." So what it did was to get me stirred up to change studios and engineers.

So, I would play Babe for people that I really respected to get their opinion on the studio sound. "Have you ever heard a sound like this?" The overwhelming response was no. But in addition, they also said that is some song. I played it for the guys in the band some five months later and we decided to go to this studio and do the album. Babe ended up on "Cornerstone" and became the first single. Aside from that, exactly one year after I gave my wife the song, Babe became No. 1 in the United States.

[styxfansite]

Did the quote thing again.


No more quotes for me.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

:oops: Did the quote thing again.


No more quotes for me.

LOL, that's okay, I usually have to edit each post I do!!!

You can either go to the post and hit the QUOTE button on the upper right hand corner to quote the person you're replying to.

Or you can just go to the part of the post you want quoted, "copy & paste" that part in your new post and then hit the QUOTE box that's above the post you're writing in.

I hope that helps. I'm terrible at explaining things

[StyxCollector]

I was under the impression that the version of "Babe" which made it to the record was the original demo performance, just with a few overdubs (trying to remember the cite -- maybe DDY's Songwriter interview.) Anyone have the definitive lowdown on that?

I know that the TS harmonies and the guitar parts were (obviously) laid down after the fact. I think the basic Rhodes is the same; I don't see why he'd redo that. I would assume DDY re-recorded the vocals since rarely do you keep your demo version unless it is 100% perfect. Being a perfectionist, DDY wasn't going to let the demo version be the final.

I can't say whether or not the drums and bass were re-cut, but I would assume if the demo was basic, that John and Chuck "freshened" up their parts.

So I would say the final product is a mix of the demo and new schtuff.

This is another thing that would be interesting to let "escape" so the fans could hear the original.

[bugsymalone]

One of the things I have read, and heard Dennis say, is that the vocals on "Babe" are all him. They tried to record it, I believe, with others participating in the harmonies, but went back to the original Dennis recorded and only added Tommy's guitar solo to the final track.

From what I understand, JY had no part at all in that song, other than when it was played on tour.

Bugsy

[StyxCollector]

One of the things I have read, and heard Dennis say, is that the vocals on "Babe" are all him. They tried to record it, I believe, with others participating in the harmonies, but went back to the original Dennis recorded and only added Tommy's guitar solo to the final track.

From what I understand, JY had no part at all in that song, other than when it was played on tour.

Bugsy

Well on the final you can tell the harmonies are a "wall of DDY" but I thought I heard TS' voice in there as well.

I don't believe for a second it's DDY's demo vocal take, or the demo drums & bass. I think they're close, but if you're going to release it commercially, it needs a bit of something else.

I would belive JY is nowhere to be found though.

[Rockwriter]

One of the things I have read, and heard Dennis say, is that the vocals on "Babe" are all him. They tried to record it, I believe, with others participating in the harmonies, but went back to the original Dennis recorded and only added Tommy's guitar solo to the final track.

From what I understand, JY had no part at all in that song, other than when it was played on tour.

Bugsy

That's correct. Dennis, John and Chuck did the demo, with Dennis and Gary Loizzo singing all the backgrounds. That demo is the record we all know with just minor changes. When Styx tried to re-record it, they wound up feeling that the demo was better. JY and Tommy probably didn't want to sing on the track, in my opinion. Whatever the reason, Dennis replaced Gary's harmonies with himself singing all the parts, and although he did a really amazing imitation of the classic Styx harmonies, you can hear that it's all him if you listen closely. Tommy's solo and a couple of drum fills are the only adds as far as I know.

Here's a guessing game . . . can anyone think of any other songs that maybe Tommy and JY did not sing/play on? Or Dennis? I think there are others that have not come out publically. I think the guys were further apart a long time ago than we ever realized.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

[jimmy19029]

[That's correct. Dennis, John and Chuck did the demo, with Dennis and Gary Loizzo singing all the backgrounds. That demo is the record we all know with just minor changes. When Styx tried to re-record it, they wound up feeling that the demo was better.

These days listening one can definitely tell it's all Dennis. Bummer for Loizzo. I've always liked his voice. He was lead singer of Chicago's The American Breed and had a hit with Bend Me Shape Me in late 1967. I listen to their CDs often! Looks like Loizzo found it more lucrative to move behind the scenes in music if one wanted to ensure a longer career.

[bugsymalone]

Thanks Sterling/Jimmy. For awhile there, I thought I was going to have to go back and listen to "Babe" to verify the vocals. I love me some Dennis, but I do not love me that song!

I would guess he had the hardest time with the high parts. Dennis was always (or usually) the lowest voice in the three-part harmonies in Styx.

Bugsy

[styxfansite]

This is from the Crib section on Dennis's website. The basement part is the part that I talked about earlier.



I've always been a Styx/Dennis DeYoung fan and I have a question as to the recording of "Babe". I've read and heard that the recording that was put out as a Styx song is the same as the one Dennis gave to you with only the guitar solo added. Do you still have the original recording and how much does it sound like the song we hear on the radio. Thank you.

Joe

Dear Joe,
Yes, I still have the original recording. It still sounds as loving and wonderful today as it did so many years ago.
We are very blessed. Dennis' music, voice etc. has not changed over the countless years that span his career. If anything he only gets better.
I still remember the first time I heard Dennis, John and Chuck play their music for me in his basement. I was impressed not just by his musical ability but by his talent to entertain. Even at the age of 17 he still was able to WOW me. Of course it could have been my raging hormones. Thank God they are still raging, 36yrs. later!
That same night in Dennis' basement he asked me to sing a song with his band. I was a legit singer, much to my dismay, not a Rock and Roll bone in my body. I sang "Some Day My Price will Come."

Suzanne

[stabbim]

Here's a guessing game . . . can anyone think of any other songs that maybe Tommy and JY did not sing/play on? Or Dennis? I think there are others that have not come out publically. I think the guys were further apart a long time ago than we ever realized.

Well, it's no big secret anymore that BNW features a bunch of session musicians, semi-credited and otherwise. (Tom Dziallo, CJ Vanston, Tom Lily, Glen Burtnik, Hank Horton, and so forth)

My guess is that "Mr Roboto" doesn't feature much TS/JY, if any.

"Boat On The River" could very well be TS/DDY only, since by all accounts it was also a "Babe"-esque demo situation.

Lots of programmed percussion on KWH and EOTC -- I've heard that some of the actual kit playing is also a machine, though I'm not sure to what extent.

[StyxCollector]

Here's a guessing game . . . can anyone think of any other songs that maybe Tommy and JY did not sing/play on? Or Dennis? I think there are others that have not come out publically. I think the guys were further apart a long time ago than we ever realized.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

Well, you'd have to rule out most of Brave New World

"It Takes Love" counts IMHO since they only stripped out Glen's vox and added Tommy's in.

"Roboto" is an easy given - and that was started to be recorded in Japan at the end of the Paradise Theater tour by DDY in Japan.

I will contend that "Don't Let It End" is Tom Dziallo on the guitar solo. Compare it to the one on "Desert Moon" - same phrasing style and tone IMHO.

"Homewrecker" is not a DDY keyboard solo. Too frantic. DDY always worked out his key solos. I say that's JY.

I'm pretty sure "Boat on the River" was all done a la "Babe" with TS, CP, and JP and they added the accordian on at the end later. I say no JY on that.

Just a starter list from me.

Bonus question: which song on Cornerstone is rumored to once have a full guitar solo where there is not one now (or at least not guitar alone)?

[styxfansite]

Bonus question: which song on Cornerstone is rumored to once have a full guitar solo where there is not one now (or at least not guitar alone)?

My guess would be "Why Me"? It has a guitar solo with some other orchestra music in the background.

[shaka]

Here's a guessing game . . . can anyone think of any other songs that maybe Tommy and JY did not sing/play on? Or Dennis? I think there are others that have not come out publically. I think the guys were further apart a long time ago than we ever realized.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

Well, you'd have to rule out most of Brave New World

"It Takes Love" counts IMHO since they only stripped out Glen's vox and added Tommy's in.

"Roboto" is an easy given - and that was started to be recorded in Japan at the end of the Paradise Theater tour by DDY in Japan.

I will contend that "Don't Let It End" is Tom Dziallo on the guitar solo. Compare it to the one on "Desert Moon" - same phrasing style and tone IMHO.

"Homewrecker" is not a DDY keyboard solo. Too frantic. DDY always worked out his key solos. I say that's JY.

I'm pretty sure "Boat on the River" was all done a la "Babe" with TS, CP, and JP and they added the accordian on at the end later. I say no JY on that.

Just a starter list from me.

Bonus question: which song on Cornerstone is rumored to once have a full guitar solo where there is not one now (or at least not guitar alone)?

Interesting. I listened to that and tend to agree. The tone on that track for all the guitars is an overprocessed strat which is pretty much Tom's tone. Man, I hate that tone! Pure sacharine.