BackTalk Creator Weighs In:

Voted Worlds #1 Most Loonatic Fanbase

Moderator: Andrew

Postby Wheels Of Fyre » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:38 pm

Andrew wrote:Next time? Like at this point I even want there to be a next time?

Arghh.

IF there is a next time, I'll keep the proof reading to my eyes only.

The response from one section - one SMALL section - of the fan base has been very disappointing, but somewhat predictable and expected.


Coming from one of those in the SMALL, predictable, and "insignificant" section of the fanbase - I truly hope you do have a next time.

I'm a JOURNEY fan. I'm not a BTer nor am I a MR.com-er. I've voiced my opinion on the matter and have recognized here openly that I'm one of the SMALL that you've alluded to. We "small" may not share the popular view but ours is no less significant. The fact that you find the views of "the small" as discouraging you from any future work speaks volumes. Either we really are insignificant or perhaps we do indeed have value worth considering.

Everyone here has value in their views. Conflicting/contrasting views don't pit us AGAINST each other. They serve in helping find some common ground. Life isn't black and white. We only want to see it that way. Truth and Peace are found somewhere in the grey. Your recognizing "the small" is fine. What isn't so fine is the insinuation that the small is insignificant.
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Postby donnaplease » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:01 pm

FyreWyngz wrote:Conflicting/contrasting views don't pit us AGAINST each other. They serve in helping find some common ground.


Oh, if that were only true...
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Postby joybringer1 » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:34 am

NealIsGod wrote:
The "losing" side doesn't deserve compassion. They deserve pity because they are made up of delusional people. Maybe this will shake them out of it.


A quick glance at my online Thesaurus under the word pity comes up with compassion, sympathy, mercy, forgiveness, kindness and understanding as synonyms.
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Postby NealIsGod » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:01 am

joybringer1 wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:
The "losing" side doesn't deserve compassion. They deserve pity because they are made up of delusional people. Maybe this will shake them out of it.


A quick glance at my online Thesaurus under the word pity comes up with compassion, sympathy, mercy, forgiveness, kindness and understanding as synonyms.


Hmmm... can I change pity to ridicule? :lol:
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Postby joybringer1 » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:15 am

NealIsGod wrote:
Hmmm... can I change pity to ridicule? :lol:


Sure you can - but whether going down that route will bring any much-needed relief to our sorely tried Wombat is debatable :P
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Postby Liz22562 » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:28 am

Deano - I'm still amazed to this day that you believe you single handedly made Journey what they are today. Amazing, lol. :D 8)
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:51 am

Liz22562 wrote:Deano - I'm still amazed to this day that you believe you single handedly made Journey what they are today. Amazing, lol. :D 8)


Never said I singlehandidly made Journey what they are, but without me, they wouldn't have Jeff there today, THAT I can guarantee you.

I am still amazed you won't admit I was right the entire time. Now THAT's funny.
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Postby Marzdog » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:10 am

Yo Wombat! Long time no chat pal. Sorry been busy with family shit, but, I'm still working on the info we discussed.

Anyhow, fuck the haters man. Don't let'em get you down

Here's the bottom line 'drew...

Can ANYONE show me where Journey has come out and denounced what was said in the interviews, or said that what is contained in the interviews not as it happened? Anyone?

OK, case closed.

Happy New Year bud!

Next public outing...2007 NHL All-Star Game. :D


Andrew wrote:PS. I might add that it can be very draining to read people's negative perceptions of me, my feature, my site, my work and what I should have done/could do/what they would have done/could do....some comments here, but the majority in other forums of course....

I just need to take a break from all things Journey for a while. Starting....now.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:47 am

Marzdog wrote:Next public outing...2007 NHL All-Star Game. :D




You, a hockey fan? I like you already. Dallas is the site right? ook me up with tickets, I'll come out and we'll get beered up. Watching Ovechkin, Crosby and Semin on the same line, versus Modano, Selanne and Iginla? Awesome. Maybe we can see the IKEA line too....Naslund, and the Sedin Twins...those Swedish fuckers are fun to watch.
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Postby Andrew » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:59 am

FyreWyngz wrote:
I'm a JOURNEY fan. I'm not a BTer nor am I a MR.com-er. I've voiced my opinion on the matter and have recognized here openly that I'm one of the SMALL that you've alluded to. We "small" may not share the popular view but ours is no less significant. The fact that you find the views of "the small" as discouraging you from any future work speaks volumes. Either we really are insignificant or perhaps we do indeed have value worth considering.



Fyre - my sincere and open apology to you and anyone else for suggesting that any opinions are not valid. Not my intention, but I can see how my words were inappropriate.

I have been under an intense spotlight for something I thought would bring a lot of enjoyment to the fan base. It is not my desire to have the Augeri fans feeling as if they have been left out or abandoned.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:13 am

Andrew wrote:
I have been under an intense spotlight for something I thought would bring a lot of enjoyment to the fan base.


Dude, stop whining.

Your piece was excellent. A very well written piece. Stop feeling shitty because some fans aren't happy. You KNEW it was going to be bad for them all along. We NEVER gloated, or made fun of them. We KNEW all along what was in store. Hell, we tried to prepare them for this.


It is not my desire to have the Augeri fans feeling as if they have been left out or abandoned
.

Don't you dare feel bad. That wasn't you speaking in those interviews. That was you reporting. They were abandoned by their hero. Their hero is the one who brought all this shit to light. Now I am pissed to Hell. Andrew, please feel free to forward all your PM's to me and give me your password, as I will respond for you back to them. I can assure you I can end all this bullshit in an hour or two.
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Postby ohsherrie » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:34 am

Andrew wrote:Fyre - my sincere and open apology to you and anyone else for suggesting that any opinions are not valid. Not my intention, but I can see how my words were inappropriate.

I have been under an intense spotlight for something I thought would bring a lot of enjoyment to the fan base. It is not my desire to have the Augeri fans feeling as if they have been left out or abandoned.


I guess they can now feel that they've paid us back. The truth about their idol that was in the interviews broke their hearts and the way they're beating down our friend with venomous, warped allegations is breaking ours.

At least we were working with truth rather than fantasy.
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Postby TerryB » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:54 am

Barb wrote:
TerryB wrote:The Old Journey Forum....ahh the good ol' days on Skyloard's Board....Where has the time gone?

I remember Meanie, Monker and I think Barb too, but that was a long time ago. I definitely remember it being shutdown a couple of times with Mike saying he had enough and then it starting back up again.

I remember a certain person popping up on the board that had ties to the band. He had responded to someone claiming the band was using background tracks or something...too long ago to remember exactly. A few posts later after several hints, we figured it out that it was Allen Craft.

I remember when the board morphed over to the Journey site and how it seemed cool at first then became just a pain to filter through all the talk about clothes and hair. I haven't posted on there in years and only visit on an occassion. Overmoderated or whatever else, I just didn't care anymore.

Mike - You thinking about starting up another Journey board? :D

TerryB


Terry, what was your screen name on Skylord's board? I was "Barbie" there. Wasn't there also a crazy ass chick there named Becky or Rebecca?



Barb - It's been so long that I can't remember my screen name. It could have just been Terry, but I doubt it.
I remember some crazy gal on there and I am guessing that was Towanda. I do remember there being a Barbie on there so that means "Hello again"... Hey, didn't you come to Meanie's defense a few times? :D

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Postby Barb » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:02 am

TerryB wrote:
Barb wrote:
TerryB wrote:The Old Journey Forum....ahh the good ol' days on Skyloard's Board....Where has the time gone?

I remember Meanie, Monker and I think Barb too, but that was a long time ago. I definitely remember it being shutdown a couple of times with Mike saying he had enough and then it starting back up again.

I remember a certain person popping up on the board that had ties to the band. He had responded to someone claiming the band was using background tracks or something...too long ago to remember exactly. A few posts later after several hints, we figured it out that it was Allen Craft.

I remember when the board morphed over to the Journey site and how it seemed cool at first then became just a pain to filter through all the talk about clothes and hair. I haven't posted on there in years and only visit on an occassion. Overmoderated or whatever else, I just didn't care anymore.

Mike - You thinking about starting up another Journey board? :D

TerryB


Terry, what was your screen name on Skylord's board? I was "Barbie" there. Wasn't there also a crazy ass chick there named Becky or Rebecca?



Barb - It's been so long that I can't remember my screen name. It could have just been Terry, but I doubt it.
I remember some crazy gal on there and I am guessing that was Towanda. I do remember there being a Barbie on there so that means "Hello again"... Hey, didn't you come to Meanie's defense a few times? :D

TerryB


Yep. We were buds, even though he was a big pain in the ass. :lol:
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:07 am

Barb, you headed to ARF?
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Postby Barb » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:10 am

RockinDeano wrote:Barb, you headed to ARF?


Nope.
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Postby AlienC » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:50 am

Monker wrote:
Barb wrote:
TerryB wrote:The Old Journey Forum....ahh the good ol' days on Skyloard's Board....Where has the time gone?

I remember Meanie, Monker and I think Barb too, but that was a long time ago. I definitely remember it being shutdown a couple of times with Mike saying he had enough and then it starting back up again.

I remember a certain person popping up on the board that had ties to the band. He had responded to someone claiming the band was using background tracks or something...too long ago to remember exactly. A few posts later after several hints, we figured it out that it was Allen Craft.

I remember when the board morphed over to the Journey site and how it seemed cool at first then became just a pain to filter through all the talk about clothes and hair. I haven't posted on there in years and only visit on an occassion. Overmoderated or whatever else, I just didn't care anymore.

Mike - You thinking about starting up another Journey board? :D

TerryB


Terry, what was your screen name on Skylord's board? I was "Barbie" there. Wasn't there also a crazy ass chick there named Becky or Rebecca?


Or, Towanda :D

I heard someone sent Borg hackers to destroy her computer so she can't bug anybody ever again.
BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA, apparently my most memorable comments were the one's made when I was feeling particularly abused. That bitch is / was one of the most heinous, psycho, lying, backstabbing Perry Dick Suckers in existence. Made SYBIL look like a "good catch", IMO.

I'll admit to my own naivety when it came to on-line friendships at that time, but regardless, gaining someone's confidence and then betraying it it is wrong, no matter the end result. To think otherwise is to agree that the end (result) justify the means. And then you would have to agree that Lip Synching is OK , because everyone wants to see the Dirty Dozen" performed at recording session level quality

Here's this insider's observation(s) from several years distance......

Journey is as big a CAVEMAN as they come. With apologies to any REAL Cavemen out there. ( I' :lol: Their recent inability to adapt to 21st century technologies is woefully obvious to practically everyone UNDER THE AGE of 30 and quiet a few of us who are over that (n'cest pas Strange Grey et Skylorde?).
Where once there were voices for early adoption of new media technologies (Napster, P2P in general, subscription forums, Downloads from Journey Inc., etc), they have retreated from what was once THEIR high ground, to wit, utilizing new technology to advance their "Message of Love". I attribute this in part to the loss of the requisite VISIONARY, the former MANAGER Herbie Herbert. (Bolded for emphasis). No one in the band thought up the concept of video screens, merchandising streams of revenue, or even creating an EVERGREEN catalog that would serve them well into their salad days. Without a VISIONARY as a guiding force, the intense creative force within a group such as Journey will ultimately rip it apart, as the stress of trying to stay on the cutting edge without falling off unhinges everyone.

This also explains why it's a young person's arena, moreso than a veteran's. Youngsters have less to lose if they fail. JC, NS, et al have plenty of ex- mouths to feed and there is a standard of living they have accustomed themselves to. Failure (in ANYTHING) is less an option to them, thus they are less inclined to take creative "risks" than they were 25 years ago, when they could literally have farted into microphones and sold out shows nationwide. By jumping the shark back in the late 80's, they cut themselves off from the emerging markets , both Geographic and Technology - based, and locked themselves forever into the market of "Nostalgic Acts".
side note: anyone else notice that Streisand's recent tour was called "EVERGREEN"? It's what a legacy of popular music that never fades from popularity is called. She made BANK this year.
BTW, Def Leppard and Journey were 14th highest grossing acts on tour in '06.

Unfortunately, Journey's musical arc was halted before it could pass into the '90s, and thus onto the New Generation's radar. Def Leppard did do that, that's why Journey hitched their wagon onto that engine.

Anyone who thinks that the PRINCIPLE OWNERS of JOURNEY are less responsible for the lip synching than the one tasked with providing "cover" for such "enhancment" is as big a JOURNEY apologist as any Perry-Head. And as such, should now stfu about anything SP ever "did to the band".
There is NOTHING that occurs onstage and little off without the expressed permission from the band, and tacitly from SP, as he is STILL a MEmBER of JOURNEY. Which is why RV delights so much in his onstage antics. It breaks the "shell" so to speak, of such a contrived performance and allows for something serendipitous to occur. Watch for the infamous NS "Stink Eye" to be fired across the bow of anyone daring to deviate from the rehearsed norm. Even if it's he that erred. :roll:
Additionally there are several layers of participation in the Gravy Train known as "Journey". First, you have the Principal players,.... SP, JC, NS, & The remaining members of the Corporate Board of Directors and since the reformation, RV and the current Manglement. The others are all CONTRACTED or , in the case of some of the staff, AT WILL employees. Don't forget the many Merchandise Vendors who are just as eager to sell the various gee gaws that every REAL Journey fan MUST have. Yeah, Yeah, I know, part of that was MY big idea, but hey, who knew SOAP, Incense and Candles would be such big sellers ?? I remember when the cool merchandise was the cigarette lighter / Breath Freshner on a lanyard from Nocturne...... oh welll, good times......

Skylord's message board was co-opted by Journey (as it was the most active forum around) in a cost saving move. Why re-invent the wheel when a perfectly good version is sitting just over there for the taking? IMO, they ripped him off big time.
I was the one thrown under the bus when it was time to separate themselves from their former technology benefactors. The motives and tactics discussed were appalling to me, given I'm a team player type, and at the time, dying to learn from those guys ANYTHING regarding I.T..
To Mike and Frank: I apologize for any hard feelings or bad taste from anything passed between us (you and I) regarding those days. I was under the influence of what I thought was "Job Preservation" when in fact it really was " Morals sacrificing to the Gods of Mammon". I did not agree with the tact they took with both of you, yet was compelled to "go along" with their shameful treatment of the both of you.
You both were justified in your feelings of anger and betrayal towards me, and believe me when I say, I know what compelled SA to do the dirty deed. I apologize sincerely. Frank, I hope the Guitar Rig Stuff I sent to you on my next to last official day made it to you. That one bit of unfinished business has always been on my mind. If it didn't , you can thank JT for that as well.

To Andrew: I apologize for the things I said then I am not proud of, including disparaging your site's name and your intentions. Your relative even handedness in operating this unfettered free fire zone is to be applauded.

To the Perry-heads I went off on on the VH-1 Board: Y'all are still WAYYYYYYYYyyyyyyy too messed up. I stand by what I said, as offensive as it was, it pales in your disparaging of anything un-Perry, and that God-Awful Soft Porn Never-Ending -Story Bullshit. I'll never understand that sort of unabashed Idolatry. It's telling that such actions drove SP into a "Howard Hughes" sort of existence.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Postby TerryB » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:21 am

AlienC wrote:
Here's this insider's observation(s) from several years distance......

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Hello Allen. I for one was thankful that someone from the band was willing to chat with us on a somewhat regular basis.

By the way, you still a big fisherman? Was it salmon? Weren't you involved with some new fishing boat design?

I always thought we should get your California butt out for some muskie fishing here in the Midwest or maybe some salmon or trout on Lake Michigan.

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Postby Eric » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:56 am

AlienC wrote:Unfortunately, Journey's musical arc was halted before it could pass into the '90s, and thus onto the New Generation's radar. Def Leppard did do that, that's why Journey hitched their wagon onto that engine.


But Journey solo outdrew Leps&Adams in 2005???
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Postby AlienC » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:53 am

Eric wrote:
AlienC wrote:Unfortunately, Journey's musical arc was halted before it could pass into the '90s, and thus onto the New Generation's radar. Def Leppard did do that, that's why Journey hitched their wagon onto that engine.


But Journey solo outdrew Leps&Adams in 2005???

That only indicates the strength (or lack of it) of that combo. Some pairings will keep fans (of either group ) away. Go figure.
I'm speaking in terms of music on the radio. Def Lep had new stuff into the '90s. Journey didn't. Game over.
They had some dance / alt music producers knocking for awhile there. They didn't get it. I got Neal to do one project, He didn't really get it, I guess it's a kid thing.
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Postby AlienC » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:57 am

TerryB wrote:
AlienC wrote:
Here's this insider's observation(s) from several years distance......

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Hello Allen. I for one was thankful that someone from the band was willing to chat with us on a somewhat regular basis.

By the way, you still a big fisherman? Was it salmon? Weren't you involved with some new fishing boat design?

I always thought we should get your California butt out for some muskie fishing here in the Midwest or maybe some salmon or trout on Lake Michigan.

TerryB

Hey there. You're welcome and I enjoyed meeting and getting to know those of you who were bold enough to approach.I'm not as big a fisherman as I used to be for a variety of reasons.
The fishing boat company I was pimpin' are friends of mine from those heady days of Salmon on the Feather River.
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Postby JeremyP » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:15 pm

I'm kinda afraid that if Journey had hooked up with a dance type producer that it might not have been so good. lol

I keep imagining Journey doing Britney Spears type songs with all kinds of vocal processing and unnecessary electronic noise.

I'm sure that's not the kind of thing you had in mind though.
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Postby Andrew » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:26 pm

AlienC wrote: To Andrew: I apologize for the things I said then I am not proud of, including disparaging your site's name and your intentions. Your relative even handedness in operating this unfettered free fire zone is to be applauded.



I accept that with great appreciation Allen. Cheers.
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Postby Moon Beam » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:31 pm

Okay, fine, when's my ass Aussie Bossy
kissin gonna pay off, fucker never even says
Hey Moonie how's it going?

Pitchin a fit and going off to do another beer bong.
:lol:
Fuck you Andrew :lol: :wink:
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Postby LAWoman » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:16 am

AlienC wrote:...... oh welll, good times......




OMG--it's ALLEN! A refreshing voice from the past.
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Postby Eric » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:25 am

AlienC wrote: That only indicates the strength (or lack of it) of that combo. Some pairings will keep fans (of either group ) away. Go figure.
I'm speaking in terms of music on the radio. Def Lep had new stuff into the '90s. Journey didn't. Game over.
They had some dance / alt music producers knocking for awhile there. They didn't get it. I got Neal to do one project, He didn't really get it, I guess it's a kid thing.


I gotcha......

But dance / alt??????????? Wouldn't you rather be less successful and not sell out to that crap? I mean - I certainly wouldn't have supported that noise....
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Postby strangegrey » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:07 pm

AlienC wrote: To Mike and Frank: I apologize for any hard feelings or bad taste from anything passed between us (you and I) regarding those days. I was under the influence of what I thought was "Job Preservation" when in fact it really was " Morals sacrificing to the Gods of Mammon". I did not agree with the tact they took with both of you, yet was compelled to "go along" with their shameful treatment of the both of you.
You both were justified in your feelings of anger and betrayal towards me, and believe me when I say, I know what compelled SA to do the dirty deed. I apologize sincerely. Frank, I hope the Guitar Rig Stuff I sent to you on my next to last official day made it to you. That one bit of unfinished business has always been on my mind. If it didn't , you can thank JT for that as well.


Hey Allen, No apology necessary man! By gones man, By gones!!! You're posting on this thread, so I have to assume you read my comments on the first page (or on the noticeboard)...so you can clearly see that what's most painful about my involvement with the site is how the back talk forum was raped by truly insane psycho-women and a few over-zealous moderators...

Never got anything from you...but it wouldn't surprise me one bit that JT cut the line (he tried to do the same thing with my tickets to the jones beach show)....and it doesn't matter. The hospitality you showed me during the Journey show @ Jones Beach in 2001 was top notch. Getting to watch the road crew setup, seeing soundcheck 10 feet away from Ross, Getting to pick Neal's Les Paul and Jon's LP Custom, standing right infront of John Waite while he soundchecked, feeling the excitement of the pre-show buildup from backstage....all of it, I wouldn't trade for anything...and I have you to thank!

pm me and we'll catch up!

-Frank
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Postby Skylorde » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:37 pm

Just a few comments

Skylord's message board was co-opted by Journey (as it was the most active forum around) in a cost saving move. Why re-invent the wheel when a perfectly good version is sitting just over there for the taking? IMO, they ripped him off big time.


I disagree here completely. Rindell Ivers was very, very reluctant to green light the message board. If you remember correctly, the site we inherited had a "guest book" people used as a message board and Rindell was somewhat freaked out by the guestbook! The general fear was people could post disparaging remarks on the official site.

From my perspective, the organization begrudgingly went along with a full blown forum because I was relentless about the topic. In fact, if memory serves, I went (in a round-about way) over Rindell's head straight to Azoff's office and got approval for the funds for the board (we didn't use open source). Once I had the approval for the funds, that was all I needed for my approval to install the software and turn the key. I somewhat remember telling Rindell "Oh by the way, we uhhh, opened the forum :)"

Was I ripped off? Oh I don't think so. Had I left my forums intact and opened up competing forums on the official site, people would have found out about it by word of mouth anyway and I would have had TWO forums to look after.

To Mike and Frank: I apologize for any hard feelings or bad taste from anything passed between us (you and I) regarding those days. I was under the influence of what I thought was "Job Preservation" when in fact it really was " Morals sacrificing to the Gods of Mammon". I did not agree with the tact they took with both of you, yet was compelled to "go along" with their shameful treatment of the both of you.


I was quite pissed at you for a long time however as I told you earlier, water under the bridge. Honestly, that whole incident just gave me a reason I was looking for to let go of the reins. I normally don't say this because I don't want it taken out of context so I'll explain the best I can.

Looking from the outside in, I met great people and had some great times. However, looking from the inside out is a completely different perspective and you realize just how fucked up some people really are. Granted, those fucked up people are a very small minority of Journey fans however they tend to be the ones who are the most relentless and draw the most energy. Just as leftist activists, although a small minority, always seem to get the most press coverage because they have the biggest fucking mouths.

This ties into the whole IDOL worship thing to this day will make me scratch my head and think WTF? I was basically the buffer between the internet fans and the band and dealt with a fair amount of emotionally unstable people and believe me, that gets old. Now wonder why Rindell didn't want to deal with them LOL.

I recently had a conversation with someone who was vilified and threatened for something they did/said about Perry. I won't discuss details because I'm not certain this person wants this information publicly disclosed. But again, to those people, what the fuck is wrong with you? I get it, from a psychological perspective but I don't understand it because I'm not nor have I ever been a idol worshiper. Journey to me is a handful of ORDINARY PEOPLE who did something extraordinary with their talents. Why anyone sees anything beyond that is just a mystery.
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Postby Jeremey fan forever » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:11 pm

This is one of the most informative threads I've read in awhile. Since there seem to be some in the know, any comments about what happened to Journey Cat? Did it have to do with the yet unknown Augeri fiasco? Are there gag orders?
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Postby Andrew » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:36 pm

Moon Beam wrote:Okay, fine, when's my ass Aussie Bossy
kissin gonna pay off, fucker never even says
Hey Moonie how's it going?

Pitchin a fit and going off to do another beer bong.
:lol:
Fuck you Andrew :lol: :wink:


Hey Moonie. How's it going? :wink:
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