New Tommy Shaw Interview

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Re: Styx, Tommy, Jack, touring

Postby cinj » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:18 pm

Grotelul wrote:You seem to think Styx as a name with or without Dennis should be much bigger than it is now. How? No one is selling records from that era. It would not "spark interest in the music world" just because Dennis would be involved. Maybe a few more hardcores might show. Another reunion tour? Why...they already did that 11 years ago. Styx is not Van Halen, not Aerosmith, not Journey, not even Rush when it comes to selling records and tours as this stage of their careers. These guys pooched that possibility with the break up in 1983. Even with Dennis they may be on par with someone like REO, bands that play smaller venues. Even if Dennis had been on board this whole time and recording new music, they wouldn't be headlining big shows. 1996 was a fluke. 1997 the crowds were already dwindling and with the cost of a ticket these days, who but mainly the hardcores are going to pay out the $$$$ to see a band like Styx with or without Dennis. That is the reality.


I think I would agree with you if Dennis had been with Styx all these years - as you said 1997 was a bit of a dip from 96. But the fact that, ten years later, they <I>haven't</I> toured with Dennis, I think a reunion <B>would</B> be big stuff. At least for awhile. I think if Steve Perry got back in Journey - the same thing would happen. People want to go see the same bands they grew up with. This isn't a slam on the "current" Styx - let them tour if they want. I just think that any band that gets back with the classic lineup after being gone for awhile will reap more $$$$ awards.

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Postby blt man » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:36 pm

Andrew wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:It seems like Andrew did this interview a long time ago by this comment


Not at all. Early July.


So this was done after the release of DDY's new album. I was hoping you would ask if he had listened to Dennis' new CD and his opinions of it.
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Sorry "Stmonkeys" can't disagree MORE

Postby kipthekid » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:58 pm

In 1997, despite having "reunited" the year before and despite having NO new CD to support, Styx was STILL able to play and HEADLINE larger venues than they can today.

"New Styx" SHOULD have toured as they did...but they shouldn't have shilled themselves to every possible gig that "paid" and they shouldn't have set a record for the most live albums ever produced. Finally, accepting the Def Leppard...Leopard...HOWEVER one spells it (does it matter?) gig was the "final" straw.

If they reunited with Dennis now, for a short period, they could perhaps win back a little of the dignity that was "lost" over the past 8 years. No, Styx isn't Aerosmith, but you're dead wrong about them not being able to be at the same level as Journey - in '96 and '97, they were at or above the level that Journey is now. Could they get that back? Not all the way...but, in certain cities, they could headline major venues again. There IS a sizeable # of fans that will not see the "new" Styx.

I don't completely disagree with one statement - Styx/Dennis DID screw the pooch in '83. However, they were still a hot commodity when they "broke up" after that "tour." Had they re-grouped a year or two later and produced a "normal" Styx album, they'd have still been a major act. Styx/Dennis REALLY screwed the pooch by taking so long to regroup. It should have been ONE solo album and "back together" for Styx. Sadly, that's hindsight.

Finally, no, Dennis alone IMHO ISN'T Styx. HOWEVER, MANY of the songs on "100 Years" are Styx songs. I'd argue they're far more "Styx" in nature than what Dennis wrote for BNW. Cyclorama, IMHO, was a good overall effort, but it contained 2-3 true "Styx" songs. Dennis contribues "100 Years", "Rain", "Save Me", "Crossing the Rubicon", "Forgiveness" and "Turn Off CNN" on his new disc. All of these are Styx tunes IMHO.

I'm not an "Orthodox" DeYoungian - I'm more of a "Reform" DeYoungian. I don't like Babe. I don't like Don't Let It End. I don't like Mr. Roboto or anything he did on Kilroy. Other than Show Me the Way, I didn't like his contributions to Edge. I only liked his first Solo Album. "100 Years" has a couple of "duds" IMHO - Breathe Again, I Believe In You - but, overall, THIS is the Dennis I've been waiting for since 1981.
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Postby Ash » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:05 am

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Re: Styx, Tommy, Jack, touring

Postby Blue Falcon » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:46 am

I think I would agree with you if Dennis had been with Styx all these years - as you said 1997 was a bit of a dip from 96. But the fact that, ten years later, they <I>haven't</I> toured with Dennis, I think a reunion <B>would</B> be big stuff. At least for awhile. I think if Steve Perry got back in Journey - the same thing would happen. People want to go see the same bands they grew up with. This isn't a slam on the "current" Styx - let them tour if they want. I just think that any band that gets back with the classic lineup after being gone for awhile will reap more $$$$ awards.

Cinj


Yup, just look at the crowds the Police are getting on their reunion tour this year. Sting certainly wasn't getting those crowds with his boring solo shows, and if Sting formed a bogus Police with some studio guy on guitar and another wanker on drums, no one would care because they want to see the musicians that they are FAMILIAR with.

Styx stinks now because it took a few years for people to realize that DDY was no longer in the band...JY and company didn't exactly advertise this fact over the years, but one of my friends saw them a few years ago and said it was a ripoff for them to use false advertising when DDY was nowhere in sight. Maybe that's why Styx crowds have been dwindling over the years.

What New Styx should have done is form a band called the Shaw/Young/Blades Project. That way they could tour and do Styx/DY/Night Ranger/solo songs without pi$$ing people off.

Think about this: what if Led Zep reunited and toured tomorrow, but when you got to the show you found out that Jimmy Page wasn't on guitar, or Robert Plant wasn't singing...and LZ didn't tell you this beforehand? That's why when Plant and Page toured they didn't use the Zep name, because Jones and Bonham weren't there.
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Re: Sorry "Stmonkeys" can't disagree MORE

Postby stabbim » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:03 am

kipthekid wrote:If they reunited with Dennis now, for a short period, they could perhaps win back a little of the dignity that was "lost" over the past 8 years. No, Styx isn't Aerosmith, but you're dead wrong about them not being able to be at the same level as Journey - in '96 and '97, they were at or above the level that Journey is now. Could they get that back? Not all the way...but, in certain cities, they could headline major venues again. There IS a sizeable # of fans that will not see the "new" Styx.


Sorry, but I just don't see "dignity" and "headlining major venues" as being analogous.

When I saw Styx play a 1500-seater in my hometown earlier this year, I saw a group of working musicians in great form enjoying what they do, putting every bit of energy and care into a performance that they have when playing to 10 times as many fans, and the crowd went nuts for them.

To me, that level of pride, craftsmanship and professionalism is what constitutes an artist's dignity, not all of this "brand" and "legacy" nonsense.
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Re: Styx, Tommy, Jack, touring

Postby stabbim » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:37 am

Blue Falcon wrote:Yup, just look at the crowds the Police are getting on their reunion tour this year. Sting certainly wasn't getting those crowds with his boring solo shows, and if Sting formed a bogus Police with some studio guy on guitar and another wanker on drums, no one would care because they want to see the musicians that they are FAMILIAR with.


Not really a fair comparison, as A) Sting and the Police are rock icons on a level that Styx could never hope to be, even back in their commercial heyday, and B) this is the Police's first tour together in over two decades. Give them 8 years straight on the road and they won't be drawing the same level of crowds either.

Blue Falcon wrote:Styx stinks now because it took a few years for people to realize that DDY was no longer in the band...JY and company didn't exactly advertise this fact over the years, but one of my friends saw them a few years ago and said it was a ripoff for them to use false advertising when DDY was nowhere in sight. Maybe that's why Styx crowds have been dwindling over the years.


What "false advertising" would that be? Using the band's name? It ain't like they slapped DDY's pic all over their official press materials (not that anyone but die-hards would have recognized him anyway) or that they didn't address the issue in the many, many interviews which they did at the time.
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Re: Sorry "Stmonkeys" can't disagree MORE

Postby Zan » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:38 am

stabbim wrote:To me, that level of pride, craftsmanship and professionalism is what constitutes an artist's dignity, not all of this "brand" and "legacy" nonsense.



Amen. Look at Madonna and Michael Jackson in he 80s and 90s. Both were selling out stadiums, so what.
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Re: Styx, Tommy, Jack, touring

Postby gr8dane » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:40 am

Blue Falcon wrote:
I think I would agree with you if Dennis had been with Styx all these years - as you said 1997 was a bit of a dip from 96. But the fact that, ten years later, they <I>haven't</I> toured with Dennis, I think a reunion <B>would</B> be big stuff. At least for awhile. I think if Steve Perry got back in Journey - the same thing would happen. People want to go see the same bands they grew up with. This isn't a slam on the "current" Styx - let them tour if they want. I just think that any band that gets back with the classic lineup after being gone for awhile will reap more $$$$ awards.

Cinj


Yup, just look at the crowds the Police are getting on their reunion tour this year. Sting certainly wasn't getting those crowds with his boring solo shows, and if Sting formed a bogus Police with some studio guy on guitar and another wanker on drums, no one would care because they want to see the musicians that they are FAMILIAR with.

Styx stinks now because it took a few years for people to realize that DDY was no longer in the band...JY and company didn't exactly advertise this fact over the years, but one of my friends saw them a few years ago and said it was a ripoff for them to use false advertising when DDY was nowhere in sight. Maybe that's why Styx crowds have been dwindling over the years.

What New Styx should have done is form a band called the Shaw/Young/Blades Project. That way they could tour and do Styx/DY/Night Ranger/solo songs without pi$$ing people off.

Think about this: what if Led Zep reunited and toured tomorrow, but when you got to the show you found out that Jimmy Page wasn't on guitar, or Robert Plant wasn't singing...and LZ didn't tell you this beforehand? That's why when Plant and Page toured they didn't use the Zep name, because Jones and Bonham weren't there.


That's all good and well.
BUT.If you go to a see a band that put out thir first album in 72 or whatever.If they come to your town in 1998 or 2007,I would say there is a good chance not all original members would not be there.It's easy to blame Styx,but have you ever thought about doing a little research yourself before purchasing your ticket.If you don't do that ,you only got yourself to blame.
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"Dignity" - it's all in the eye, mind and heart...

Postby kipthekid » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:05 am

...of the beholder. But, "Stabbim," I don't believe you got the drift of what I said. It's NOT simply about the size of the venue - it's way a band goes about something.

"New Styx" completely dilluted whatever was left of the "brand" - again, IMHO - by taking any and all gigs they could get - be it co-headling, warming up, playing in the parking lot or street before a Super Bowl as well as making a ridiculous number of live recordings. Musically, the current lineup is very solid, but the "brand" has been damaged - perhaps permanently.

Finally, no, Styx can't be compared with the Police and Sting. The Police were a world-wide phenomenon. Styx was primarily a North American success with a brief (in the Paradise Theater days) worldwide stage. Had they (and I DO put this on Dennis) followed up Paradise Theater with a similar effort, I DO believe that Styx would have become like Genesis or other bands with a worldwide headlining following.

The BIGGEST missed opportunity for this band was its failure to effectively follow-up Paradise Theater.
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Postby brywool » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:33 am

stabbim wrote:
bugsymalone wrote:As to Current Styx and no album (for now). Sounds like no one is much interested in financing, or promoting, an album of new music from them. Just my interpretation of his comment on this as well.


Maybe, maybe not. But the idea of "the state of the music industry" factoring into their decision on whether to produce new music at all is ...disheartening.


yeah, that's more of a statement on the industry, NOT the band. There are a lot of 'classic rock' bands not releasing new product? WHY because labels aren't interested. They just want to sell to kids. I'm not sure why that's a death sentence for Styx or any classic rock band. They just need to go right to the source, their core, older fans.
In my neck of the woods, Goo Goo Dolls aren't on the radio too much. However, I hear them in nearly every store I go into (speaking of their last album by the way- Iris and Slide from Dizzy were everywhere). I also heard new Paul McCartney in a store and haven't heard a thing on the radio. Same with the stones' last album.

It's annoying that people will paint that it's the current Styx lineup that's killing their sales. It's not. It's the present music environment. Styx and others need to reinvent how they're selling their music like Paul did with Starbucks, like Prince did with his recent CD giveaways in the Daily Mail. Has nothing to do with the band. Good music is good music and there was plenty on Cyclo to sell. There's plenty on DeYoung's album to sell, but not to the general KID CD buyers. They need to market to an older generation. John Mellencamp put his song in a Chevy add. A NEW song. He said "that was the best record company I ever had".

Styx and others need to do reinvent the marketing wheel.
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Re: "Dignity" - it's all in the eye, mind and hear

Postby stabbim » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:45 am

kipthekid wrote:...of the beholder. But, "Stabbim," I don't believe you got the drift of what I said. It's NOT simply about the size of the venue - it's way a band goes about something.

"New Styx" completely dilluted whatever was left of the "brand" - again, IMHO - by taking any and all gigs they could get - be it co-headling, warming up, playing in the parking lot or street before a Super Bowl as well as making a ridiculous number of live recordings. Musically, the current lineup is very solid, but the "brand" has been damaged - perhaps permanently.


But, see...what is this "brand" you speak of? How is it defined, how is it measured? How does it affect me, the Styx fan, in a realpolitik sense? As far as I can tell, every time the concept comes up all anyone can do is equate it to number of records sold or bums in seats. Tell me why it matters, outside of some folks' self-esteem being tied up in the size of their favorite rock band's receipts.

kipthekid wrote:The BIGGEST missed opportunity for this band was its failure to effectively follow-up Paradise Theater.


No argument there. I think the "5 Year Plan" proposed by Derek Sutton would have been the better career move by far. Whether it would have been enough to salve the already corrosive personal animosity in the band at the time is another question, of course.
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Re: Styx, Tommy, Jack, touring

Postby Grotelul » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:52 am

Blue Falcon wrote:
I think I would agree with you if Dennis had been with Styx all these years - as you said 1997 was a bit of a dip from 96. But the fact that, ten years later, they <I>haven't</I> toured with Dennis, I think a reunion <B>would</B> be big stuff. At least for awhile. I think if Steve Perry got back in Journey - the same thing would happen. People want to go see the same bands they grew up with. This isn't a slam on the "current" Styx - let them tour if they want. I just think that any band that gets back with the classic lineup after being gone for awhile will reap more $$$$ awards.

Cinj


Yup, just look at the crowds the Police are getting on their reunion tour this year. Sting certainly wasn't getting those crowds with his boring solo shows, and if Sting formed a bogus Police with some studio guy on guitar and another wanker on drums, no one would care because they want to see the musicians that they are FAMILIAR with.

Styx stinks now because it took a few years for people to realize that DDY was no longer in the band...JY and company didn't exactly advertise this fact over the years, but one of my friends saw them a few years ago and said it was a ripoff for them to use false advertising when DDY was nowhere in sight. Maybe that's why Styx crowds have been dwindling over the years.

What New Styx should have done is form a band called the Shaw/Young/Blades Project. That way they could tour and do Styx/DY/Night Ranger/solo songs without pi$$ing people off.

Think about this: what if Led Zep reunited and toured tomorrow, but when you got to the show you found out that Jimmy Page wasn't on guitar, or Robert Plant wasn't singing...and LZ didn't tell you this beforehand? That's why when Plant and Page toured they didn't use the Zep name, because Jones and Bonham weren't there.



I think you make Styx out to be bigger than they really are. The glory years ended in 1983. As a group or as solo artists, have they really done anything major to stay in the public eye that Sting has? No. Robert Plant? No. Styx is Styx..popular for a period and now nostalgia.
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Postby StyxCollector » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:54 am

Why are people still trying to make Styx out to be like they'd be the Stones if they toured with Dennis? Nothing could be further from the truth. Very rarely - even in their heyday - did they play large football (US that is) stadium type venues like the Stones do regularly or the Police are now. Styx was more of a MSG/LA Forum/Philly Spectrum kind of band (15,000 seats give or take). Heck, even Journey had more of an outdoor presence than Styx.

Would DDY coming back give them a bit more cache? Sure, but you're not going to see an incredible bump in attendance on the magnitude of 3 - 4x. The audience for both band configurations (DDY/Styx) is largely the same except for some of the "die hards" who want to sit in one camp or the other.

If Steve Perry ever decided to tour again with Journey, that's a whole different shebang. YOu'd see a large tour. Maybe not outdoor stadiums like the Police, but definitely MSG-sized venues.

Just because Styx sold four multi-platinum albums in a row doesn't mean they were as popular as people may think. Add to that 25+ years of history since PT, older fan base, etc etc .... the glory days are gone, folks. Enjoy what we have, because the options really are not bad.
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Re: "Dignity" - it's all in the eye, mind and hear

Postby Zan » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:04 am

stabbim wrote:But, see...what is this "brand" you speak of? How is it defined, how is it measured? How does it affect me, the Styx fan, in a realpolitik sense? As far as I can tell, every time the concept comes up all anyone can do is equate it to number of records sold or bums in seats. Tell me why it matters, outside of some folks' self-esteem being tied up in the size of their favorite rock band's receipts.




I think that's what it ultimately comes down to in this case, T.

That said, I'm glad the last word in your paragraph was receipts. lol
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Re: Styx, Tommy, Jack, touring

Postby rajah2165 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:30 am

stabbim wrote:
Blue Falcon wrote:Yup, just look at the crowds the Police are getting on their reunion tour this year. Sting certainly wasn't getting those crowds with his boring solo shows, and if Sting formed a bogus Police with some studio guy on guitar and another wanker on drums, no one would care because they want to see the musicians that they are FAMILIAR with.


Not really a fair comparison, as A) Sting and the Police are rock icons on a level that Styx could never hope to be, even back in their commercial heyday, and B) this is the Police's first tour together in over two decades. Give them 8 years straight on the road and they won't be drawing the same level of crowds either.

Blue Falcon wrote:Styx stinks now because it took a few years for people to realize that DDY was no longer in the band...JY and company didn't exactly advertise this fact over the years, but one of my friends saw them a few years ago and said it was a ripoff for them to use false advertising when DDY was nowhere in sight. Maybe that's why Styx crowds have been dwindling over the years.


What "false advertising" would that be? Using the band's name? It ain't like they slapped DDY's pic all over their official press materials (not that anyone but die-hards would have recognized him anyway) or that they didn't address the issue in the many, many interviews which they did at the time.




Actually they did slap his image and voice all over print and radio advertisements the first year or so.
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it's all opinion...and has nothing to do, for me anyway..

Postby kipthekid » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:33 am

with "receipts" and everything to do with cynicism. To me - and just me - it's both crass and cynical to put out one live album after another. It's just a tad LESS cynical to put out an album of all cover tunes. It's just AS cynical to accept the Def Leppard "gig." It's absolutely assanine to put out an album called "Rockers." What EXACTLY was the point of that?

If Styx were only playing small, intimate venues and the occassional state fair or summer festival, that would be fine by me. It would tell me that they were playing for the "die-hards" and whomever else shows up.

The Styx "brand" is manifested in the image of the band. It's all relative at this point, but now Styx is a throw-away act. When you keep throwing one live album after another to the masses.

I wasn't happy when Dennis was jettisoned, but I understood it at the time. I saw Styx at Summerfest in Milwaukee shortly thereafter and thought it was a very good show overall...and thought (and still do) that Tommy in particular was actually getting BETTER - as a performer and as a guitar player. Now, Styx shows can barely get a review in a local newspaper.

Finally, IMHO, people who believe that Dennis' presence WOULDN'T make Styx a more viable act commercially are just not being realistic. They wouldn't be "big", they wouldn't be "top 40", but, sheesh, they'd be bigger than they are NOW.
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Postby stabbim » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:35 am

brywool wrote:There are a lot of 'classic rock' bands not releasing new product? WHY because labels aren't interested. They just want to sell to kids. I'm not sure why that's a death sentence for Styx or any classic rock band. They just need to go right to the source, their core, older fans.

[snip]

Styx and others need to do reinvent the marketing wheel.


They don't even have to go so far as to reinvent it, they just need to take a look at the fair number of new marketing models already out there, decide which suits them best, and modify it as needed.

I just find the attitude of "we won't sell very many units" = "there's no point in producing new material" that TS seems to be espousing in this interview a bit dismaying, because to me, new music is sorta the point of all of this. I've already been on the patented Styx Nostalgia Cruise several times, with DDY and without him, and it was great...but I want more, and I have a hard time believing that the band truly doesn't.
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Re: it's all opinion...and has nothing to do, for me anyway.

Postby piecesofeight » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:54 am

kipthekid wrote:Finally, IMHO, people who believe that Dennis' presence WOULDN'T make Styx a more viable act commercially are just not being realistic. They wouldn't be "big", they wouldn't be "top 40", but, sheesh, they'd be bigger than they are NOW.



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Postby StyxCollector » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:13 am

stabbim wrote:I just find the attitude of "we won't sell very many units" = "there's no point in producing new material" that TS seems to be espousing in this interview a bit dismaying, because to me, new music is sorta the point of all of this. I've already been on the patented Styx Nostalgia Cruise several times, with DDY and without him, and it was great...but I want more, and I have a hard time believing that the band truly doesn't.


Other than Rush, most bands from the 60s, 70s, and 80s are in this boat. Styx would do better if they did an album and - I hate to say it - do what DDY did initially. Put it out themselves, let it get some legs. Sell it at shows and on the website. Get 100% of the profit. If it does well, find distribution to get it wider because at that point it may have word of mouth. That's how DDY did the 2CD live thing - he fronted the money, took the risk, and wound up getting a deal here and in Canada.

I also think Tommy may - and I have not interviewed him - view Styx as his cash cow to fund things like Shaw Blades. I think TS' head is more into SB than it is Styx at the moment. It was very clear to me at the two SB shows I saw, and I've seen Styx more than once since 1999. Not to say Tommy hasn't enjoyed himself onstage with Styx in these past 8 years, but I've never seen him have as much fun or be as relaxed.

If it was between a new DY or SB album and a Styx album, give me a new DY or SB album.
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Re: it's all opinion...and has nothing to do, for me anyway.

Postby stabbim » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:18 am

piecesofeight wrote:
kipthekid wrote:Finally, IMHO, people who believe that Dennis' presence WOULDN'T make Styx a more viable act commercially are just not being realistic. They wouldn't be "big", they wouldn't be "top 40", but, sheesh, they'd be bigger than they are NOW.


Comment of the year. KUDOS!


But again...why does it matter to you that they be "bigger" than they are now? What do you gain?

I'm not just arguing for the sake of it, here....I'm honestly trying to understand.
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Re: it's all opinion...and has nothing to do, for me anyway.

Postby DarwinNebraska » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:18 am

kipthekid wrote:Finally, IMHO, people who believe that Dennis' presence WOULDN'T make Styx a more viable act commercially are just not being realistic. They wouldn't be "big", they wouldn't be "top 40", but, sheesh, they'd be bigger than they are NOW.


Yep, they're whistling through the graveyard.
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Styx' Popularity

Postby cittadeeno23 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:27 am

I've said this before and I will say it again.

If Styx had put out a STRAIGHT forward rock album instead of Kilroy, and if they had stayed together and put out another
STRAIGHT Forward rock album in 1985, they would have went over the top in popularity. 1983-1987 were prime MTV years.
Look how many dead-in-the-water bands had HUGE albums in those years.
Dire Straights, Heart, Yes. They are a few of the many bands who got most of their fame during those MTV years.
Styx missed the boat. If they had released rock albums in 1983, 1985 and 1987, I would guess they could have sold another 12-15 million albums between the 3 releases. MTV made many crappy bands bigger than they should have been.
Styx was the most talented band on the planet and would have went through the roof if they had played their cards right.
I don't think this is an over-estimate. I think if managed properly, Styx COULD have been one of the most poplular bands of all time. They broke up at the worst possible time. It is a huge missed opportunity in my opinion.
Styx sold 4 consecutive triple platinum albums WITHOUT the help of the Elitists who run the Music industry. Imagine what several more years of exposure on MTV could had done for them.

Kilroy killed the band! It's that simple.
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Re: it's all opinion...and has nothing to do, for me anyway.

Postby Zan » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:30 am

stabbim wrote:
piecesofeight wrote:
kipthekid wrote:Finally, IMHO, people who believe that Dennis' presence WOULDN'T make Styx a more viable act commercially are just not being realistic. They wouldn't be "big", they wouldn't be "top 40", but, sheesh, they'd be bigger than they are NOW.


Comment of the year. KUDOS!


But again...why does it matter to you that they be "bigger" than they are now? What do you gain?



Question of the year. KUDOS!
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Re: it's all opinion...and has nothing to do, for me anyway.

Postby StyxCollector » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:38 am

Zan wrote:
stabbim wrote:
piecesofeight wrote:
kipthekid wrote:Finally, IMHO, people who believe that Dennis' presence WOULDN'T make Styx a more viable act commercially are just not being realistic. They wouldn't be "big", they wouldn't be "top 40", but, sheesh, they'd be bigger than they are NOW.


Comment of the year. KUDOS!


But again...why does it matter to you that they be "bigger" than they are now? What do you gain?



Question of the year. KUDOS!


+1

I don't care if they are playing 1000 seat venues or 10000 seat venues. It may impact their bottom line, but when I go to a show, I go to hear music - not analyze "oh how the mighty have fallen and I can't believe they were once huge - what happened?". Is it fun sometimes to argue about the numbers? Yes, but a lot of us kinda do it in jest.

Personally, at this point I prefer smaller, more intimate venues. I was just as happy seeing Tommy Shaw open for Rush on the Hold Your Fire tour as much as I was seeing TS at Joe's Pub in Chicago with Shaw Blades. But in terms of venue and experience, you can't compare them.
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Postby stabbim » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:39 am

StyxCollector wrote:Styx would do better if they did an album and - I hate to say it - do what DDY did initially. Put it out themselves, let it get some legs. Sell it at shows and on the website. Get 100% of the profit. If it does well, find distribution to get it wider because at that point it may have word of mouth.


I absolutely agree, and don't hate to say it at all. :) That option is definitely open to them, and IMO they should have been doing it all along ( like these guys, for example) once it became clear that any record company they were involved with was only interested in cashing in on their back catalog and either unable or unwilling to give any new music the push it deserved (not absolving the band of responsibility in those cases either, but still.)

StyxCollector wrote:If it was between a new DY or SB album and a Styx album, give me a new DY or SB album.


Oh, most definitely. My only major gripe with how things have shaken out over the past decade or so is that it's kept S/B apart for so long. This year has been tremendous on that score, and I hope there's more to come.
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Postby StyxCollector » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:47 am

stabbim wrote:I absolutely agree, and don't hate to say it at all. :) That option is definitely open to them, and IMO they should have been doing it all along ( like these guys, for example) once it became clear that any record company they were involved with was only interested in cashing in on their back catalog and either unable or unwilling to give any new music the push it deserved (not absolving the band of responsibility in those cases either, but still.)


THis is where "I was a once big band" mentality comes in. I'd say this is JY more than TS because look at how the SB album was marketed and such. It's on a relatively small label, some grass roots promotion, and boom, it's selling. And probably selling better than most Styx product since 1999 other than maybe Anthology/Gold, but I believe the 1 disc hits collection still outsells that most likely (I don't have Soundscan numbers to prove anything). You make a deal with the "devil" to be on a major label or division thereof (New Door) who can cross market with your old catalog. You take less points to get distribution.

We all know TS has a decent recording studio in his house. Todd is a pro, so if you went into a "real" recording studio for, what, a week to record drums, it won't be that much. So they could record an album fairly cheaply on their own dime, get it mixed and mastered, and then hawk it. This isn't rocket science.

The other thing - and I've been called to task for it - is that I really think the Styx writing well is very dry especially when it comes to Tommy since he has to be the main songwriter. I bet he could pen a Shaw Blades song with no problem, though. Just saying ...

And I know they love to tour and it's a cash cow, but I really would like to see Styx take a solid 6 months to a year off of the road. It's not like DDY who doesn't play as many dates; I think they just need to recharge the batteries and be fresh again. Oh, and while they're at it, can I have a 5 - 6 minute version of "Renegade" again? lol

stabbim wrote:Oh, most definitely. My only major gripe with how things have shaken out over the past decade or so is that it's kept S/B apart for so long. This year has been tremendous on that score, and I hope there's more to come.


I think that TS has made it clear there will be more, and JY's mantra from my interview of no solo projects needed is out.
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Re: Styx' Popularity

Postby Rockwriter » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:53 am

cittadeeno23 wrote:I've said this before and I will say it again.

If Styx had put out a STRAIGHT forward rock album instead of Kilroy, and if they had stayed together and put out another
STRAIGHT Forward rock album in 1985, they would have went over the top in popularity. 1983-1987 were prime MTV years.
Look how many dead-in-the-water bands had HUGE albums in those years.
Dire Straights, Heart, Yes. They are a few of the many bands who got most of their fame during those MTV years.
Styx missed the boat. If they had released rock albums in 1983, 1985 and 1987, I would guess they could have sold another 12-15 million albums between the 3 releases. MTV made many crappy bands bigger than they should have been.
Styx was the most talented band on the planet and would have went through the roof if they had played their cards right.
I don't think this is an over-estimate. I think if managed properly, Styx COULD have been one of the most poplular bands of all time. They broke up at the worst possible time. It is a huge missed opportunity in my opinion.
Styx sold 4 consecutive triple platinum albums WITHOUT the help of the Elitists who run the Music industry. Imagine what several more years of exposure on MTV could had done for them.

Kilroy killed the band! It's that simple.


I'd like to chime in here for just one quick moment: KILROY may have been the stick the band members used to beat the entity and each other to death, but it was really just the excuse they had been looking for. EGO killed Styx. Differing ego agendas and the unwillingness to deal with each other anymore. First in 1983, and then again in 1999. That's the sad thing to me about this band . . . I know privately they have a lot of anger because they feel they could have been bigger, and the hell of it is, they really could. But they still seem incapable of seeing their own roles in that, choosing instead to blame one another and the people who guided them. That's a shame, because this is really something that this band chose to do to itself, rather than something that anyone else did to it.

I hope all is well.


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Re: Styx' Popularity

Postby StyxCollector » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:13 am

Rockwriter wrote: I'd like to chime in here for just one quick moment: KILROY may have been the stick the band members used to beat the entity and each other to death, but it was really just the excuse they had been looking for. EGO killed Styx. Differing ego agendas and the unwillingness to deal with each other anymore. First in 1983, and then again in 1999. That's the sad thing to me about this band . . . I know privately they have a lot of anger because they feel they could have been bigger, and the hell of it is, they really could. But they still seem incapable of seeing their own roles in that, choosing instead to blame one another and the people who guided them. That's a shame, because this is really something that this band chose to do to itself, rather than something that anyone else did to it.


At some point, you have to get over the woulda, shoulda, coulda mentality and deal with where you are. I personally can't stand people I have worked with or know personally with who take no responsibility but blame everyone else. Do divorces happen because it is only one part of the equation not working? No. It may be because one person, say, cheated, but WHY did they cheat? Most likely because no communication happened and they said, "Screw it, I'll go find someone else to schtup." That's an over generalization I know, but at the end of the day, things rarely fail for one reason.

We all know the big fracture happened post-Po8 and never really was fixed. There were lots of band aids.

The sad thing is the Styx story is not uncommon. If you look at the Journey story, while it didn't implode like Styx (well, maybe not until recently lol), you also had a much stronger manager in the glory years in Herbie Herbert who knocked heads together. The Styx management was good, but not good enough to keep everyone one the same page and in line, so at some point it becomes about individuals and not the band.

It sure is fun to play what if, no?
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they feel they could have been bigger

Postby cittadeeno23 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:14 am

The fact that they could have been bigger was my point.
Saying Kilroy killed the band was just the end result. You are right, Sterling, EGO killed the band and also their unwillingness to get along. It's too bad they couldn't just find a way to work it all out. They were on the brink of something
very, very special.
If Dennis would have dropped the whole Theatrical Thing and let the band just put out straight forward Rock songs like they had done in the past, this band could have shot to the top and STAYED there for a very long time with the help of the MTV
exposure.
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