OT: NFL Playoff Weekend

[lights1961]

isnt anyone going to comment on how the great B. Favre choked on the last play that could have ended in a score , just like Romo...

I will... he froze... But they had such a great year... The giants stuffed Grant and Favre couldnt muster any thing offensivly.... defense did not give up any huge plays just lots of yards... had an interception that wasnt... a fumble that wasnt and lots of dropped passes for the offense--- still had a chance on the punt at the end of the game when the giants fumbled the ball---but the Packers could not come up with it... No one gave the Packers or the Giants any chance to go this far--- I think in August i thought maybe 8-8.
So its been a hell of a ride!! My bet is Brett will be back for another year---the memory you dont want is an interception as your last pass ever.

IT WAS A GREAT YEAR!! But losing the last game always sucks!! BLUE MONDAY FOR
ME IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE. But spring training getting closer and closer.


Rick

[larryfromnextdoor]

isnt anyone going to comment on how the great B. Favre choked on the last play that could have ended in a score , just like Romo...

I will... he froze... But they had such a great year... The giants stuffed Grant and Favre couldnt muster any thing offensivly.... defense did not give up any huge plays just lots of yards... had an interception that wasnt... a fumble that wasnt and lots of dropped passes for the offense--- still had a chance on the punt at the end of the game when the giants fumbled the ball---but the Packers could not come up with it... No one gave the Packers or the Giants any chance to go this far--- I think in August i thought maybe 8-8.
So its been a hell of a ride!! My bet is Brett will be back for another year---the memory you dont want is an interception as your last pass ever.

IT WAS A GREAT YEAR!! But losing the last game always sucks!! BLUE MONDAY FOR
ME IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE. But spring training getting closer and closer.


Rick

rick ,, you have a GREAT attitude today.. im going to borrow it for the day!! but.........im really curious is favre will come back next year.. that will be a good interview.. i bet soon ..

[lights1961]

isnt anyone going to comment on how the great B. Favre choked on the last play that could have ended in a score , just like Romo...

I will... he froze... But they had such a great year... The giants stuffed Grant and Favre couldnt muster any thing offensivly.... defense did not give up any huge plays just lots of yards... had an interception that wasnt... a fumble that wasnt and lots of dropped passes for the offense--- still had a chance on the punt at the end of the game when the giants fumbled the ball---but the Packers could not come up with it... No one gave the Packers or the Giants any chance to go this far--- I think in August i thought maybe 8-8.
So its been a hell of a ride!! My bet is Brett will be back for another year---the memory you dont want is an interception as your last pass ever.

IT WAS A GREAT YEAR!! But losing the last game always sucks!! BLUE MONDAY FOR
ME IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE. But spring training getting closer and closer.


Rick

rick ,, you have a GREAT attitude today.. im going to borrow it for the day!! but.........im really curious is favre will come back next year.. that will be a good interview.. i bet soon ..

I am trying----I was bummed last night, but only yelled once---- by the middle of the 3rd quarter i sensed that maybe Favre in the Super Bowl wasnt meant to be... however--- those missed kicks...and the packers getting the ball first in OT... got me a false hope... kinda like hillary!! hehehe '-)


Yep---that is my guess, the last few weeks seem to indicate that since he has been having way too much fun this year--I think all the receivers and Grant are coming back---as long as the o line still is the same--skys the limit next season.


Rick

[7 Wishes]

Favre will be back...and the Packers will be the team to beat in the NFC.

[Enigma869]

isnt anyone going to comment on how the great B. Favre choked on the last play that could have ended in a score , just like Romo...

Let me preface my comments by saying that I am, and always have been a fan of Brett Favre. The guy is VERY difficult not to like. Having said that, he did what he always does...Made mistakes! In spite of all of Favre's career accomplishments, he'll never be mentioned with the top 5 QB's of all time, because of the mistakes he makes, during critical moments in a game. I was listening to a sports writer, who actually grew up in Green Bay, say that he believes the legend of Brett Favre far exceeds the player, and I'd have to agree with him. I think Favre is the best gamer I've ever seen and also one of the toughest players I've seen, in ANY sport. It doesn't change the fact that he's lost more fumbles and thrown more interceptions than any QB in the history of the NFL! You just can't play with reckless abandon in playoff games, because EVERY team you're up against has the ability to beat you!


John from Boston

[lights1961]

isnt anyone going to comment on how the great B. Favre choked on the last play that could have ended in a score , just like Romo...

Let me preface my comments by saying that I am, and always have been a fan of Brett Favre. The guy is VERY difficult not to like. Having said that, he did what he always does...Made mistakes! In spite of all of Favre's career accomplishments, he'll never be mentioned with the top 5 QB's of all time, because of the mistakes he makes, during critical moments in a game. I was listening to a sports writer, who actually grew up in Green Bay, say that he believes the legend of Brett Favre far exceeds the player, and I'd have to agree with him. I think Favre is the best gamer I've ever seen and also one of the toughest players I've seen, in ANY sport. It doesn't change the fact that he's lost more fumbles and thrown more interceptions than any QB in the history of the NFL! You just can't play with reckless abandon in playoff games, because EVERY team you're up against has the ability to beat you!


John from Boston

wow what an ass---3 time MVP... gunslinger who takes risks...either good or bad...
1-1 in super bowls, played in 257 straight games... whether he was hurting or not.
lets see what else--- at 38 is playing his best--- and through out his career his teams have not always been that good but still played with 150% ... say that when Tom Bradys Pats start the downward cycle.... will he still have the heart that brett has... its easy when you win... its how you take defeat that makes you the man..

HE WILL BE IN TOP 5.

Rick

[7 Wishes]

Dave Krieg actually holds the record for QB fumbles. Favre is second.

[Enigma869]

Other than Driver's 90-yard score, the Giants did a great job of covering the receivers and that was early in the second quarter, which means they pretty much locked those guys up for about 2/3 of the game. Obviously, the Patriots receivers are better than GB but I wouldn't rule out the Giant's DBs from doing an at least adequate job covering Moss & co.

I can't disagree with that but I also don't see him having a career night like he did for most of the first half of the season, either. The Giants can put a lot of pressure on the QB, so we'll see what happens there.

I'm really not ruling anything out. I think the Giants have played SUPERBLY, and as I said long before they beat the Packers, I gained a great deal of respect for how they played New England in the final game of the season. They had absolutely NOTHING on the line, and played their asses off. Honestly, it was the best football game I watched, the entire season. I'm simply saying that the Giants don't have Harris and Woodson playing corner for them!

Even though you say you can't see Brady having "a career night like he did for most of the first half of the season", I think you're forgetting that he threw for over 350 yards against the Giants! Also, two of the Patriots receivers had over 100 yards, so I definitely think the Giants can be thrown on. I also think you're VERY naive if you seriously think Brady isn't capable of having a "career night" any time he steps on the field. I'm not saying every game is going to be a Tom Brady all-star performance (he was TERRIBLE yesterday). What I am saying is that given his history, I don't think anyone would be stunned to see the guy come out and throw for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns! I also don't judge what the Packers did against the Giants as meaning anything, given the horrendous weather conditions! It's not going to be -5 degrees in Arizona! As for the pressure the Giants D line can bring...I agree 100%. In fact, that is where the game will be won or lost. The last time these teams played, the Giants sacked Brady once, and I like New England's chances if that happens again.

I can tell you this...Eli played the best game of his entire career against the Patriots in the last game of the season, and it still wasn't enough. I would say it's much more likely that Brady will rise to the occasion on the big stage, where he has so many other times, than Eli will. I see the Patriots winning this one 38-31 and Brady collecting another MVP for his trophy case. In any event, I think this will be a great game, and MUCH more compelling than the Indy/Chicago matchup of last season!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Dave Krieg actually holds the record for QB fumbles. Favre is second.

Actually, I just looked it up, and we're both wrong! Moon is number one, Krieg is number 2, and Favre is a very close third, on the list!



John from Boston

[lights1961]

Dave Krieg actually holds the record for QB fumbles. Favre is second.

Actually, I just looked it up, and we're both wrong! Moon is number one, Krieg is number 2, and Favre is a very close third, on the list!



John from Boston

sorry for calling you an ass... since favre tops all the good records too----I think that
should put him in the top 5 easy!!

[X factor]

Other than Driver's 90-yard score, the Giants did a great job of covering the receivers and that was early in the second quarter, which means they pretty much locked those guys up for about 2/3 of the game. Obviously, the Patriots receivers are better than GB but I wouldn't rule out the Giant's DBs from doing an at least adequate job covering Moss & co.

I can't disagree with that but I also don't see him having a career night like he did for most of the first half of the season, either. The Giants can put a lot of pressure on the QB, so we'll see what happens there.

I'm really not ruling anything out. I think the Giants have played SUPERBLY, and as I said long before they beat the Packers, I gained a great deal of respect for how they played New England in the final game of the season. They had absolutely NOTHING on the line, and played their asses off. Honestly, it was the best football game I watched, the entire season. I'm simply saying that the Giants don't have Harris and Woodson playing corner for them!

Even though you say you can't see Brady having "a career night like he did for most of the first half of the season", I think you're forgetting that he threw for over 350 yards against the Giants! Also, two of the Patriots receivers had over 100 yards, so I definitely think the Giants can be thrown on. I also think you're VERY naive if you seriously think Brady isn't capable of having a "career night" any time he steps on the field. I'm not saying every game is going to be a Tom Brady all-star performance (he was TERRIBLE yesterday). What I am saying is that given his history, I don't think anyone would be stunned to see the guy come out and throw for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns! I also don't judge what the Packers did against the Giants as meaning anything, given the horrendous weather conditions! It's not going to be -5 degrees in Arizona! As for the pressure the Giants D line can bring...I agree 100%. In fact, that is where the game will be won or lost. The last time these teams played, the Giants sacked Brady once, and I like New England's chances if that happens again.

I can tell you this...Eli played the best game of his entire career against the Patriots in the last game of the season, and it still wasn't enough. I would say it's much more likely that Brady will rise to the occasion on the big stage, where he has so many other times, than Eli will. I see the Patriots winning this one 38-31 and Brady collecting another MVP for his trophy case. In any event, I think this will be a great game, and MUCH more compelling than the Indy/Chicago matchup of last season!


John from Boston

Good points, John. I just think that when they get on that warm, fast track in Arizona, they will become the great passing team we saw in the first half of the season, and I think the Giants will get embarrased. IMHO, the game will not even begin to resemble their last meeting.
Pats by three scores, minimum!

But what do I know? I thought the Titans were gonna beat the Chargers!

[Enigma869]

wow what an ass---3 time MVP... gunslinger who takes risks...either good or bad...
1-1 in super bowls, played in 257 straight games... whether he was hurting or not.
lets see what else--- at 38 is playing his best--- and through out his career his teams have not always been that good but still played with 150% ... say that when Tom Bradys Pats start the downward cycle.... will he still have the heart that brett has... its easy when you win... its how you take defeat that makes you the man..

HE WILL BE IN TOP 5.

Rick

Rick...You can call me all the names in the book, and it doesn't mean a thing. You're entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else is. I stand by my comment on Brett Favre not being among the five greatest QB's in the history of the NFL, and most NFL historians would agree, because he never appears on any of their lists! You can throw out all the personal accomplishments you want, and it ultimately doesn't mean a thing. I never said the guy wasn't a very good player. I also went out of my way to say that he was the toughest player I had ever seen in ANY sport, which you conveniently just jumped right over! I think I've probably enjoyed watching Favre play more than any other player. That said, the name of the game in the NFL is winning football games, and Favre doesn't rank in the top 10!

I understand that Favre has more career passing yards than any QB in NFL history, and while it's a great accomplishment, there is FAR more that goes into being an NFL QB than just slinging the ball all over the place! Drew Bledsoe is ranked SEVENTH ALL TIME, in the history of the NFL, for passing yards, and I can assure you that Drew isn't getting a sniff of the hall of fame! Bledsoe has more passing yards than Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, and Dan Fouts. Heck, Vinny Testaverde is ranked ahead of Bledsoe, in sixth place! I think Favre is a top 10 QB, but based on the mistakes and his declining winning percentage (before this season), it's my opinion that he doesn't warrant being in the top 5, ahead of guys like Montana, Elway, Unitas, Staubach or Brady! Those guys all won multiple championships and all rank way ahead of Favre in the win column. Again, for all the Favre rump-schwabs out there...I NEVER said the guy sucked, and there is certainly no shame in being a top 10 player, but if you look at the guy's career record, the numbers speak for themselves, in terms of where Favre stacks up against other NFL great QB's!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

[lights1961]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

thats a great list... does Bradshaw get listed in anywhere??? or Starr??

[Red13JoePa]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

thats a great list... does Bradshaw get listed in anywhere??? or Starr??

Yea, they're on the bubble too. Same w/ Staubach and THANK you Ricko for NOT making rings the ONLY criteria as some Aikman, Staubach, Starr, and Brady guys will do. Rings factor in BEHIND overall play and longevity of said play for me.

Just as I believe Canton and Cooperstown should factor postseason FAR behind regular season, if at all.

[lights1961]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

thats a great list... does Bradshaw get listed in anywhere??? or Starr??

Yea, they're on the bubble too. Same w/ Staubach and THANK you Ricko for NOT making rings the ONLY criteria as some Aikman, Staubach, Starr, and Brady guys will do. Rings factor in BEHIND overall play and longevity of said play for me.

Just as I believe Canton and Cooperstown should factor postseason FAR behind regular season, if at all.

also is it fare to put generations against each other... Can Unitas be compared to Montana or Favre compared to Stauback or Brady compared to Bradshaw???
you also have Stabler, Len Dawson and Namith.



Rick

[Red13JoePa]

All bubble guys.
Like Aikman and his 3 rings I have behind Marino and his zero because although a HOF qb, in my opinion Aikman didn't quite DO as a qb what Marino did (likely because of the Jimmy Johnson run-oriented offense that kept Aikman's attempts low).

[Saint John]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

I'm really surprised you didn't find a way to include Jimi Jamison on that list.

[Red13JoePa]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

I'm really surprised you didn't find a way to include Jimi Jamison on that list.

Are you reading down there?

Jamison's Euro tour promo poster has the Frankie sycophants absolutely ABLAZE with anger, literally seeing red.

On the heels of the recent interview where he dropped BOMBS left, right and center on Sullivan.

[Enigma869]

Top 5 QBs is challenging thing.

Mine:

Montana
Elway
Marino
Unitas
Favre

Right on the bubble would be guys like Kelly, Moon, Aikman, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Fouts, Young....and I guess, despite his youth Brady. Brady does this for another 5 years I may have to put him ahead of Montana.

My top 5 are:

1. Montana
2. Brady
3. Marino
4. Elway
5. Unitas

A couple of caveats here...If Brady wins another chamionship this season, I would rank him ahead of Montana. At that point he'll have the same number of titles, and I believe Brady has won his championships with FAR less talent than what Montana had. Also, the 19-0 thing would break any ties, in my mind, and that's without even talking about the 50 TD passes. As for longevity and youth...I'm not sure Brady still falls into the "youth" category, as he'll be 31 this year! Also, for the record, I don't rank QB's simply based upon number of rings, because there are a lot of factors that go into getting a ring or not getting a ring. A MUCH more important factor for me is wins and losses and TD to interception ratio!


John from Boston

[Saint John]

Brady
Elway
Montana
Favre
Marino

I have chosen to only rank those that I have seen play. I did not have the pleasure of seeing greats like Staubach, Unitas and otheres play, so I have excluded them from consideration.

[Red13JoePa]

Also, for the record, I don't rank QB's simply based upon number of rings, because there are a lot of factors that go into getting a ring or not getting a ring. A MUCH more important factor for me is wins and losses and TD to interception ratio!


John from Boston

Yet you have Brady, who's first full year was 2002 second all-time?

Yes, it's been an incredible run for Brady it's not enough time.

Yes, right now he looks like he's going to be above Montana. In 5 years. But I'll wait until he DOES it for another 5 (which I think he may very well do).

That said, though with the exception of me having Brady as bubble right now and Favre IN the 5 our list is identical.

[X factor]

Brady
Elway
Montana
Favre
Marino

I have chosen to only rank those that I have seen play. I did not have the pleasure of seeing greats like Staubach, Unitas and otheres play, so I have excluded them from consideration.

Great list.
I'd throw Kenny Stabler on there, just cause I loved him so much back in the day...

[Enigma869]

Yet you have Brady, who's first full year was 2002 second all-time?

Yes, it's been an incredible run for Brady it's not enough time.

Yes, right now he looks like he's going to be above Montana. In 5 years. But I'll wait until he DOES it for another 5 (which I think he may very well do).

That said, though with the exception of me having Brady as bubble right now and Favre IN the 5 our list is identical.

Absolutely, I have him ranked second of all time! As for his "first full year" being 2002...sure, okay! I'll go along with that, but let's not forget that Brady came into the SECOND game of the 2001 season, and has started EVERY game since. Also, he won the Super Bowl that very first season, while being a 14 point underdog to "The Greatest Show on Turf"! Contrary to what you might think...this isn't a New England thing. I loved Steve Grogan as a QB for the Patriots, but would NEVER even mention his name on a list of greatest QB's of all time! I understand and accept the fact that EVERYONE hates EVERYTHING New England Patriots, but it doesn't change Brady's accomplishments! The other reason I rank the guy pretty high up on the list is that he has the HIGHEST winning percentage of ALL time, in both the regular season and the playoffs! I honestly don't know what else the guy can do. He could retire at the end of this season, and still be a first ballot hall of famer.

I think ranking to top athlete in ANY sport is very difficult. I don't use longevity as my measuring stick, because there are MANY guys who play FAR longer than they should, and as a result of which, end up padding their stats, significantly! I think in another 5 years, Peyton Manning will also be in the top 5. Incidentally, how in god's name do you possibly rank Brett Favre over Tom Brady??? Based on what? It can't be based on anything other than passing yards and passing touchdowns, because there isn't anything else he's even remotely better than Brady at! Are you sure you're not from Wisconsin?


John from Boston

[NealIsGod]

As good as Brady is, I would love to see how he would fare behind the Cardinals offensive line. I have never seen a QB get the protection that Brady gets. He seems to have 4 or 5 seconds to throw about 80% of the time. The Giants need to blitz as much as possible to rattle him. They may give up a score or 3 in the process, but it could pay off in the 4th quarter.

Now, my list which only includes QBs I have watched play.

Montana
Brady
Elway
Aikman
Young
Marino

[Red13JoePa]

As good as Brady is, I would love to see how he would fare behind the Cardinals offensive line. I have never seen a QB get the protection that Brady gets. He seems to have 4 or 5 seconds to throw about 80% of the time. The Giants need to blitz as much as possible to rattle him.

Great point, he looks at the opposing pass rusher in indignation, and then to the officials for a flag, and then at his jersey as if to say "Shit, I thought thing was RED! They're not supposed to touch me" every time he gets hit.

[NealIsGod]

every time he gets hit.

Yeah, which is like twice a game. I've never seen a speck of dirt on the man's uniform.

[Enigma869]

As good as Brady is, I would love to see how he would fare behind the Cardinals offensive line.

It's a fine argument to make, THIS SEASON! The reality is that before this season, NOBODY EVER mentioned the Patriots offensive line as any kind of a factor at all! I would have liked to see Barry Sanders run behind the line that Emmitt Smith ran behind his entire career and Emmitt Smith run behind the embarrassing offensive line that Barry Sanders was forced to run behind for his entire career!

Like I said, talking about the greatest athlete in ANY sport is ALWAYS going to inspire great debate. The only sport that most people might agree upon is Michael Jordan in basketball, and I can tell that even in Jordan's case, there are a whole lot of basketball historians who instantly point to Bill Russell and his ELEVEN championships!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

I dispute that, Johnno.

I've read for YEARS now the Pats' OLine getting its rightfully desrved recognition as one of if not THE best in the game. I remember reading all about that in the leadup to the 2004 Supe when McBiatchTeets appled up (again).

[Enigma869]

I dispute that, Johnno.

I've read for YEARS now the Pats' OLine getting its rightfully desrved recognition as one of if not THE best in the game. I remember reading all about that in the leadup to the 2004 Supe when McBiatchTeets appled up (again).

Sorry Joepa...

You can "dispute" it all day long, but it doesn't change what the facts are! You're a VERY knowlegeable sports fan, when it comes to all things Philadelphia, but a Boston sports historian you are not! There are only TWO guys from the 2004 Patriots championship team, who are the same guys starting on the offensive line! There isn't ONE single guy playing on this offensive line that was even on the team during the Patriots 2001 championship season! Logan Mankins, their best offensive lineman, was still in college, in 2004! In other words 60% of their offensive line is different this season, than it was for their last championship. You very well may have heard about the Patriots line being "The best in the game" in 2004 (which I'm not sure where, because I certainly never heard a word about their line), but even if you did, it wasn't the same group of guys! I think the Patriots have a VERY good offensive line. That said, even when their line wasn't as stout as it is now, Brady still senses pressure and gets rid of the ball as quick as Marino ever did!


There is a lot of talk about how much protection Brady is getting this season, and rightfully so. That said, people who go on and on about how Brady is all of a sudden this great player because of his line are jackasses! I think people are forgetting that this guy hasn't won a damn thing this season, at this point. He already has three championships, playing on teams that probably were only good enough to win one of the three. He didn't win those championships because Damien Woody and Joe Andruzzi were pro bowl offensive linemen!

John from Boston