Schon comes clean... well sort of...

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Postby finalfight » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:16 am

Saint John wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Saint John wrote:Gold (soon to be Platinum) albums and sold out sheds seem to tell me that people are very interested in this lineup.


Total novelty act.
Jeff would have built something that withstood the test of time, while standing on its own two feet.
What they have now is cheap nostalgia.


We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.


+1
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Postby Tito » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:17 am

stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I agree. It was how they handled the situation that sucked (and always will). Nothin' wrong with Jeff's voice, they wanted an alto-tenor.



From this outsider, they handled the situation perfect.
Yea,for the casual fan, and retards like you that will let accept everything the does as gold


Maybe platinum in a couple of months. :lol: :lol:
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Postby finalfight » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:17 am

Tito wrote:
Deb wrote:
Tito wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I agree. It was how they handled the situation that sucked (and always will). Nothin' wrong with Jeff's voice, they wanted an alto-tenor.



From this outsider, they handled the situation perfect.


Go figure. :roll:

And coming from this outsider, I find your avatar very disrespectful. :evil: And you guys got on the cases of people posting NS(napoleon) avatars? :?


I never complained about any Neal avatars. I have only complained about one avatar only.


Ah c'mon Tito's avatar is comedy gold. :lol:
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Postby Don » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:19 am

Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D
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Postby stevew2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:20 am

Tito wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
Saint John wrote:lol...at least you realize I was joking. Schon has certainly been a buffoon at times,


Neal has NEVER been a buffoon. Unless you consider being too loyal - buffoonery.
That is retarded. If Neal would shit on you,you would sit there and pick out the corn. Loyal to whom?? Friga maybe. They proballablly share the same bunk on the bus, and not because they have to


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: For the right price - yes I would. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:
How much would it set me back to have you pick the corn out of my shit Tito?
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Postby Tito » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:23 am

stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
Saint John wrote:lol...at least you realize I was joking. Schon has certainly been a buffoon at times,


Neal has NEVER been a buffoon. Unless you consider being too loyal - buffoonery.
That is retarded. If Neal would shit on you,you would sit there and pick out the corn. Loyal to whom?? Friga maybe. They proballablly share the same bunk on the bus, and not because they have to


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: For the right price - yes I would. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:
How much would it set me back to have you pick the corn out of my shit Tito?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Make an offer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Onestepper » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:23 am

Gunbot wrote:Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D


Yee Ha! And so it goes....
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Postby Deb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:26 am

finalfight wrote:
Tito wrote:
Deb wrote:
Tito wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I agree. It was how they handled the situation that sucked (and always will). Nothin' wrong with Jeff's voice, they wanted an alto-tenor.



From this outsider, they handled the situation perfect.


Go figure. :roll:

And coming from this outsider, I find your avatar very disrespectful. :evil: And you guys got on the cases of people posting NS(napoleon) avatars? :?


I never complained about any Neal avatars. I have only complained about one avatar only.


Ah c'mon Tito's avatar is comedy gold. :lol:


Nah, yours is funny/cute, his is just disrespectful.
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Postby Tito » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:28 am

Deb wrote:
finalfight wrote:
Tito wrote:
Deb wrote:
Tito wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I agree. It was how they handled the situation that sucked (and always will). Nothin' wrong with Jeff's voice, they wanted an alto-tenor.



From this outsider, they handled the situation perfect.


Go figure. :roll:

And coming from this outsider, I find your avatar very disrespectful. :evil: And you guys got on the cases of people posting NS(napoleon) avatars? :?


I never complained about any Neal avatars. I have only complained about one avatar only.


Ah c'mon Tito's avatar is comedy gold. :lol:


Nah, yours is funny/cute, his is just disrespectful.


I don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about.
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Postby Deb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:29 am

Gunbot wrote:Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D


And that is fine, I can accept/agree with that..............but this couldn't have been said to Jeff's face......why? :?
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Postby stevew2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:30 am

Tito wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
Saint John wrote:lol...at least you realize I was joking. Schon has certainly been a buffoon at times,


Neal has NEVER been a buffoon. Unless you consider being too loyal - buffoonery.
That is retarded. If Neal would shit on you,you would sit there and pick out the corn. Loyal to whom?? Friga maybe. They proballablly share the same bunk on the bus, and not because they have to


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: For the right price - yes I would. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:
How much would it set me back to have you pick the corn out of my shit Tito?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Make an offer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
$100.00 and I have to supervise , cant miss one kernel
Last edited by stevew2 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tito » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:30 am

Deb wrote:
Gunbot wrote:Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D


And that is fine, I can accept/agree with that..............but this couldn't have been said to Jeff's face......why? :?


Contracts and lawyers....
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Postby finalfight » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:30 am

Gunbot wrote:Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D


From reading a little between the lines of Neal's interview it seem that the band loved having Jeff onboard in concert and the fan reaction. On the strength of this he may have been offered the job on a more permanent basis. However during the tour break the demos that Jeff worked on came back and the band's vision going forward obviously didn't gel with what Jeff had brought to the table. The beer glasses were off and they woke up to find the beautiful woman they had slept with last night was shaving his balls in the bathroom! That was a harsh analogy I guess - what I meant to say was that it seems the fit wasn't right, the spark missing. Now at least we have a situation that seems to be working for both Journey and JSS.
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Postby SusieP » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:32 am

It wouldn't hurt Neal or Jonathan to just say,
"we stand by our decision that Jeff was not the voice we wanted for Journey, but we should not have announced him as permanent lead singer."

And,

"we should have told him face to face, 'sorry Jeff but we've made a mistake and have changed our minds.'"

It's just courtesy.
And because they didn't do that and still haven't, I have lost respect for them as men.
Had they done what I just said, I would have no problem.

Their decision - fine.
Their handling of it - sneaky.
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Postby Deb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:34 am

Tito wrote:
Deb wrote:
finalfight wrote:
Tito wrote:
Deb wrote:
Tito wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:I agree. It was how they handled the situation that sucked (and always will). Nothin' wrong with Jeff's voice, they wanted an alto-tenor.



From this outsider, they handled the situation perfect.


Go figure. :roll:

And coming from this outsider, I find your avatar very disrespectful. :evil: And you guys got on the cases of people posting NS(napoleon) avatars? :?


I never complained about any Neal avatars. I have only complained about one avatar only.


Ah c'mon Tito's avatar is comedy gold. :lol:


Nah, yours is funny/cute, his is just disrespectful.


I don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about.


Ya right, you've been around long enough to remember the caveman comments. :roll:
Last edited by Deb on Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby stevew2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:34 am

SusieP wrote:It wouldn't hurt Neal or Jonathan to just say,
"we stand by our decision that Jeff was not the voice we wanted for Journey, but we should not have announced him as permanent lead singer."

And,

"we should have told him face to face, 'sorry Jeff but we've made a mistake and have changed our minds.'"

It's just courtesy.
And because they didn't do that and still haven't, I have lost respect for them as men.
Had they done what I just said, I would have no problem.

Their decision - fine.
Their handling of it - sneaky.
They aint men, just old teenagers with a gift. I still havent figured out what you re up to
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Postby Tito » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:36 am

stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
stevew2 wrote:
Tito wrote:
Saint John wrote:lol...at least you realize I was joking. Schon has certainly been a buffoon at times,


Neal has NEVER been a buffoon. Unless you consider being too loyal - buffoonery.
That is retarded. If Neal would shit on you,you would sit there and pick out the corn. Loyal to whom?? Friga maybe. They proballablly share the same bunk on the bus, and not because they have to


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: For the right price - yes I would. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:
How much would it set me back to have you pick the corn out of my shit Tito?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Make an offer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
$100.00 and I have to supervise , cant miss one kernel


Multiply by a $1,000 for starters.
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Postby stevew2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:40 am

You ld do Frigas for free, he eats that organic shit
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Postby Tito » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:42 am

finalfight wrote:The beer glasses were off and they woke up to find the beautiful woman they had slept with last night was shaving his balls in the bathroom!



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:45 am

Deb wrote:
Gunbot wrote:Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D


And that is fine, I can accept/agree with that..............but this couldn't have been said to Jeff's face......why? :?


Perhaps for the same reason(s) they had to read daily about the band's inner workings, set lists and other tidbits of personal info being leaked on here and everywhere else. Turnabout is fair play, ya know.
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Postby finalfight » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:57 am

SusieP wrote:
"we should have told him face to face, 'sorry Jeff but we've made a mistake and have changed our minds.'"

It's just courtesy.
And because they didn't do that and still haven't, I have lost respect for them as men.
Had they done what I just said, I would have no problem.

Their decision - fine.
Their handling of it - sneaky.


But if they had made such a statement it would likely have hit them in the pocket even more than it likely already did.

What if it was more the case that like any job, they extensively interviewed and felt they had hired the right person until that person started producing work that didn't fit the current business model going forward and thus they flunked the probation period. I would say it was a management issue that caused the bad information flow and then suggested silence on behalf of the band.

There is of course also the suggestion of 'insider trading' which must have shook up this, until then, rather insular band. By this I am simply using a business term to highlight Jeff's openness with fans be it informative, pleasant or occasionally otherwise. In no way did I mean to imply that Jeff was a Wall Street player!

I think Jeff should have just pulled a '|George Costanza' and just showed up to work anyway forcing them to at least acknowledge the situation.
Last edited by finalfight on Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:58 am

mistiejourney wrote:My question is why they made him an official member BEFORE they heard what a baritone-ish voice sounded like on the new material. Wouldn't you do that before you made the offer? It sounds to me like Jeff's talent/ability wasn't the issue.




This is THE ISSUE! For me, the issue was never was Jeff a fit or not a fit. I personally liked the guy, but didn't believe that his voice worked on most of Journey's material (with the exception if I'll Be Alright Without You). The guys in Journey should have NEVER announced Jeff as the permanent lead singer for the band, before examining whether or not the chemistry was there. Also, anyone who truly believes that this was handled well has their head up their ass! It was handled HORRENDOUSLY! That said, I've always been in the camp that Journey didn't need to go in a "new direction". They are what they are, and to re-invent themselves after 30+ years is foolish. The small minority of fans on this board who wanted Journey to go in a "more hard rocking direction" would have been thrilled, while 95% of casual Journey fans would have went away, because it simply didn't sound like the same band. Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


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Postby Deb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:59 am

Saint John wrote:
Deb wrote:
Gunbot wrote:Jeff's voice was great for Soul Sirkus because that was meant to be a heavier sound. When JSS stepped up and help Journey out on the road, Neal didn't have him there because of his voice, but rather as a way to not have to cancel shows and lose a truckload of money. Any promoting done by Neal regarding Jeff was done to keep interest in the tour. Once the excitement wore off, I'm sure Neal Realised, too late, that any continuation of Jeff with the band might drive them from the masses of fans that were only there to hear the Steve perry sound. They could go in the direction of Soul Sirkus revisited under the Journey banner, but did they really want to experiment this late in the game at the twilight of the bands life? I think they decided to play it safe and go with what obviously MOST fans want, Steve perry lite, which moneywise, appears to have been the correct choice. I know you all don't care about the money angle, but these guys are at the end of their rope. This is probably their last Hurrah, so they went the route they know best. Put aside your emotion concerning Jeff and what you, the diehards want just for a moment, and see it from Irving Azoff's viewpoint and it should make sense when seen for what it is, business.

Just my opinion of course.
:D


And that is fine, I can accept/agree with that..............but this couldn't have been said to Jeff's face......why? :?


Perhaps for the same reason(s) they had to read daily about the band's inner workings, set lists and other tidbits of personal info being leaked on here and everywhere else. Turnabout is fair play, ya know.


I don't recall JSS posting the bands personal info and inner workings. :? You and Dean, yes.........but you're fans. I do recall him posting back and forth with fans regarding songs/setlist way back when they were in the UK. But I just saw that as getting feedback from the fans about what they wanted to hear.

Answer me one question seriously then, since you and Tito seem to think it was all handled just fine.............do you actually think it was good business for JSS to hear he was dismissed by a peer than by any one in the Journey camp?

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
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Postby Deb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:00 am

finalfight wrote:I think Jeff should have just pulled a '|George Costanza' and just showed up to work anyway forcing them to at least acknowledge the situation.


:lol:
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Postby Deb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:03 am

Enigma869 wrote:Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston


That is very true.
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Postby SusieP » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:03 am

finalfight wrote:
SusieP wrote:
"we should have told him face to face, 'sorry Jeff but we've made a mistake and have changed our minds.'"

It's just courtesy.
And because they didn't do that and still haven't, I have lost respect for them as men.
Had they done what I just said, I would have no problem.

Their decision - fine.
Their handling of it - sneaky.


But if they had made such a statement it would likely have hit them in the pocket even more than it likely already did.


Not if they'd announced it after the tour.

But lets be thankful Sharon Osborne isn't their Manager.
She's been known to have poo delivered to people she has a problem with.
:shock:
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:03 am

Deb wrote:
finalfight wrote:I think Jeff should have just pulled a '|George Costanza' and just showed up to work anyway forcing them to at least acknowledge the situation.


:lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 am

Deb wrote:I don't recall JSS posting the bands personal info and inner workings.

It was done by people he confided to keep their mouths shut. They failed him miserably. Still very unprofessional nonmetheless.

Deb wrote:Answer me one question seriously then, since you and Tito seem to think it was all handled just fine.............do you actually think it was good business for JSS to hear he was dismissed by a peer than by any one in the Journey camp?

Yes...it showed that any leaking of intra-band dealings and personal info will not be tolerated. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when some very personal information about Deen leaked out. Also, I think they wanted the Soto faction of fans to hate them. They simply didn't want the majority of these people around, but that's just my opinion.
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Postby SusieP » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:08 am

Saint John wrote:
Deb wrote:I don't recall JSS posting the bands personal info and inner workings.

It was done by people he confided to keep their mouths shut. They failed him miserably. Still very unprofessional nonmetheless.

Deb wrote:Answer me one question seriously then, since you and Tito seem to think it was all handled just fine.............do you actually think it was good business for JSS to hear he was dismissed by a peer than by any one in the Journey camp?

Yes...it showed that any leaking of intra-band dealings and personal info will not be tolerated. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when some very personal information about Deen leaked out. Also, I think they wanted the Soto faction of fans to hate them. They simply didn't want the majority of these people around, but that's just my opinion.


I must have missed this happening.

Anyway, how are you feeling?
Swamp ass back to normal? :lol:
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Rest In Peace Deano.
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SusieP
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Postby Saint John » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:36 am

SusieP wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Deb wrote:I don't recall JSS posting the bands personal info and inner workings.

It was done by people he confided to keep their mouths shut. They failed him miserably. Still very unprofessional nonmetheless.

Deb wrote:Answer me one question seriously then, since you and Tito seem to think it was all handled just fine.............do you actually think it was good business for JSS to hear he was dismissed by a peer than by any one in the Journey camp?

Yes...it showed that any leaking of intra-band dealings and personal info will not be tolerated. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when some very personal information about Deen leaked out. Also, I think they wanted the Soto faction of fans to hate them. They simply didn't want the majority of these people around, but that's just my opinion.


I must have missed this happening.

Anyway, how are you feeling?
Swamp ass back to normal? :lol:


Yeah, back to normal. 8) I kinda miss it, though!!! :lol: :shock: :twisted:
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Saint John
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