Schon comes clean... well sort of...

[Shadowsong]

"He was a very good showman. But what turned my head around was when we wrote a couple of new songs. We sent them to Jeff... he laid down some vocals... and it didn't sound like Journey at all. Jeff didn't have to be a clone of Steve Perry, but his register was more like a baritone. We needed an alto-tenor... that timbre of voice that everybody's used to. So that was the problem. It didn't sound great. It didn't sound like Journey.. It was just very nondescript."

Is that a real Neal quote? That's pretty fkin harsh.

All else aside
I'm finding it hard to believe those words as written came out of Neals mind.
doesn't sound like him
seems to me he had that scripted

Now I could be wrong
but that's what I feel.

[SusieP]

I don't recall JSS posting the bands personal info and inner workings.

It was done by people he confided to keep their mouths shut. They failed him miserably. Still very unprofessional nonmetheless.

Answer me one question seriously then, since you and Tito seem to think it was all handled just fine.............do you actually think it was good business for JSS to hear he was dismissed by a peer than by any one in the Journey camp?

Yes...it showed that any leaking of intra-band dealings and personal info will not be tolerated. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when some very personal information about Deen leaked out. Also, I think they wanted the Soto faction of fans to hate them. They simply didn't want the majority of these people around, but that's just my opinion.

I must have missed this happening.

Anyway, how are you feeling?
Swamp ass back to normal?

Yeah, back to normal. I kinda miss it, though!!!

You miss it? I am getting worried about you!

Anyway, I'm not asking you to repeat the personal info which was leaked [although I am curious to know] - but let me get this straight, you are saying that Jeff's 'sacking' may have been because info he told friends in confidence was leaked by the friends and NS & JC & Management got to hear about it?

[finalfight]

Anyway, I'm not asking you to repeat the personal info which was leaked [although I am curious to know] - but let me get this straight, you are saying that Jeff's 'sacking' may have been because info he told friends in confidence was leaked by the friends and NS & JC & Management got to hear about it?

Not excluding the fact that Neal felt the voice didn't fit of course.

[Tomulator]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

[Saint John]

Anyway, I'm not asking you to repeat the personal info which was leaked [although I am curious to know] - but let me get this straight, you are saying that Jeff's 'sacking' may have been because info he told friends in confidence was leaked by the friends and NS & JC & Management got to hear about it?

The way Soto was "sacked" may have been a direct result of the aforementioned things.

[Fire99]

Apologies if im repeating something already said (the thread is getting rather looooong) but the voice issue regarding JSS does quite frankly smell something dodgy..

They worked together previously on Soul Sirkus so Neal and Dean would be both very aware of what Jeff's vocal range sounded like and his style etc..

Not to mention Jeff's 20 odd year history with other projects..

Come on these guys are professionals. you can't ignore Jeff's back catalog, Soul Sirkus plus a good number of live Journey shows and then listen to a couple of Demo's and say.. "oooooo Jeff's voice isn't right for us"

I don't know the facts (as most of us don't) but that just doesn't add up one bit..

[Tito]

The guys in Journey should have NEVER announced Jeff as the permanent lead singer for the band,

John from Boston

I agree with this and I've said this before. That part does not make sense. But, I think they basically had to do that to continue with touring that year. Tour dates were added in the U.S. late '06 and then in Europe in '07.

[RossValoryRocks]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

Well since "THE VOICE" will never tour again with Journey (or possibly anyone else) I guess marginal will have to do then huh?

[Tito]

Apologies if im repeating something already said (the thread is getting rather looooong)

25 pages including the first mention of this article last week in a different thread.

[SusieP]

Anyway, I'm not asking you to repeat the personal info which was leaked [although I am curious to know] - but let me get this straight, you are saying that Jeff's 'sacking' may have been because info he told friends in confidence was leaked by the friends and NS & JC & Management got to hear about it?

The way Soto was "sacked" may have been a direct result of the aforementioned things.

Gotcha. Thanks. I did not know about that.
Very interesting.

[finalfight]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

Seeing as Perry apparently isn't up to the task Pineda will do just fine.

[SusieP]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

Seeing as Perry apparently isn't up to the task Pineda will do just fine.

He's doing a great job. And his sheer joy at getting the job is infectious IMO.

[Deb]

I don't recall JSS posting the bands personal info and inner workings.

It was done by people he confided to keep their mouths shut. They failed him miserably. Still very unprofessional nonmetheless.

Answer me one question seriously then, since you and Tito seem to think it was all handled just fine.............do you actually think it was good business for JSS to hear he was dismissed by a peer than by any one in the Journey camp?

Yes...it showed that any leaking of intra-band dealings and personal info will not be tolerated. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when some very personal information about Deen leaked out. Also, I think they wanted the Soto faction of fans to hate them. They simply didn't want the majority of these people around, but that's just my opinion.

I must have missed this happening.

I must have missed that too! Are you saying JSS spilled very personal information on Deen? Quite the accusation, anything to back that up? Or is that once again just your opinion?

And why would a band want "any" faction of their fans to hate them?

[Saint John]

I must have missed that too! Are you saying JSS spilled very personal information on Deen? Quite the accusation, anything to back that up? Or is that once again just your opinion?

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" works for me if it's good enough to convict people of murder!!!

And why would a band want "any" faction of their fans to hate them?

Because the majority of said faction is out of touch with reality, vindictive and at times childish internet photoshop terrorists. Said faction also doesn't put the music first, but rather, access, parties, passes, "inside info" and are basically star struck puppies. That's why.

[Don]

Apologies if im repeating something already said (the thread is getting rather looooong) but the voice issue regarding JSS does quite frankly smell something dodgy..

They worked together previously on Soul Sirkus so Neal and Dean would be both very aware of what Jeff's vocal range sounded like and his style etc..

Not to mention Jeff's 20 odd year history with other projects..

Come on these guys are professionals. you can't ignore Jeff's back catalog, Soul Sirkus plus a good number of live Journey shows and then listen to a couple of Demo's and say.. "oooooo Jeff's voice isn't right for us"

I don't know the facts (as most of us don't) but that just doesn't add up one bit..

In regards to Soul Sirkus, Jeff himself said that Neal didn't want it to be Journey 2. Jeff has a Heavy Metal voice which was wanted for that project. Has he ever put out a pop orientated album like that box of Sugar pops called "Raised on Radio"? I think the Journey gig was the exception rather then the rule when it comes to the Style of Vocal he is known for.

[RedWingFan]

The initial circle jerk he received from the band was nothing more than the shear glee of being live again and not having to look over your shoulder anymore. Once they were able to objectively judge their latest incarnation they realized he had to go.

Excellent point.

[Deb]

And why would a band want "any" faction of their fans to hate them?

Because the majority of said faction is out of touch with reality, vindictive and at times childish internet photoshop terrorists. Said faction also doesn't put the music first, but rather, access, parties, passes, "inside info" and are basically star struck puppies. That's why.

Agree with that for the most part. Although, I don't always put the music first, but always the vocals. Right or wrong, if I don't dig the vocals first and foremost, you can have the best music(ians) in the world surrounding those vocals and it wouldn't matter to me. And I was totally a star struck puppy watching EM and JSS on one stage. I think we all have a little star struck puppy in us.

[Saint John]

And why would a band want "any" faction of their fans to hate them?

Because the majority of said faction is out of touch with reality, vindictive and at times childish internet photoshop terrorists. Said faction also doesn't put the music first, but rather, access, parties, passes, "inside info" and are basically star struck puppies. That's why.

Agree with that for the most part. Although, I don't always put the music first, but always the vocals. Right or wrong, if I don't dig the vocals first and foremost, you can have the best music(ians) in the world surrounding those vocals and it wouldn't matter to me. And I was totally a star struck puppy watching EM and JSS on one stage. I think we all have a little star struck puppy in us.

Good post, Deb.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

And why would a band want "any" faction of their fans to hate them?

Because the majority of said faction is out of touch with reality, vindictive and at times childish internet photoshop terrorists. Said faction also doesn't put the music first, but rather, access, parties, passes, "inside info" and are basically star struck puppies. That's why.

Agree with that for the most part. Although, I don't always put the music first, but always the vocals. Right or wrong, if I don't dig the vocals first and foremost, you can have the best music(ians) in the world surrounding those vocals and it wouldn't matter to me. And I was totally a star struck puppy watching EM and JSS on one stage. I think we all have a little star struck puppy in us.

vocals, shmocals, it's all about the shred.

bow chica wow wow.

Whatever happened, who said what, who sued, who didn't, who was slapped with confidentiality agreements, who was told to schutt it by lawyers, blah blah blah.

The bottom line, for me, is that I mourn the possiblilty of me and Neal and JSS 'together'. Soul SirkUs, Journey, Piranha Blues 2, whatevah. i don't think I am a blind star struck puppy necessarily in that regard. 1st, it was me and my brothah since 1972ish Santana, then early Journey and then Soul SirkUS morphed us into the Soul Sistah and big and little soul brothahs. I was happy there. And then it was to continue, albeit a different form, with Journey. If it wasn't right, it wasn't right, but it still hurts --EVERYONE involved. That CANNOT have been easy for Neal or the band either.

I suppose I'll get over it someday.


but not today.

[annie89509]

Gold (soon to be Platinum) albums and sold out sheds seem to tell me that people are very interested in this lineup.

Total novelty act.
Jeff would have built something that withstood the test of time, while standing on its own two feet.
What they have now is cheap nostalgia.

WTF are you talking about. Novelty acts don't do what their doing right now. This is the best they've done in over 20 years.
How do you know they would've built something that would've stood the test of time with Soto? Where's the evidence? Winds of Freedom ain't gonna cut it. Did Soul Sirkus leave something to last? I don't think so.
This is not nostalgia. Maybe earlier in the decade it was, but 10 years after reforming this thing they have never had this type of success. It wouldn't be peaking 10 years later as it is now.

P.S. Congratulations Tito on (this being) your 1,000th career post.

That's amazing, for a guy who only joined in May. That's over 333 posts a month . You really have too much time on your hands, Tito.

This is really funny, everyone getting all worked up every time Neal/Jon does an interview. Is it any wonder they don't care about the hardcore fans anymore? We know too much. From hereon out, it's pleasing only the blissfully ignorants.

[NealIsGod]

[Tomulator]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

Well since "THE VOICE" will never tour again with Journey (or possibly anyone else) I guess marginal will have to do then huh?

Not if I don't want it to.

Nah nah!!!

[annie89509]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

my opinion, too. SP would have made the song better, add in his creative touches, a little more melody, change up the lyrics and not make it so smaltzy. This is 2008, not 1981.

[Arkansas]

...

bow chica wow wow.

...

What are the two dirtiest animals on a farm?

- brown chicken, brown cow -



later~

[finalfight]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

my opinion, too. SP would have made the song better, add in his creative touches, a little more melody, change up the lyrics and not make it so smaltzy. This is 2008, not 1981.

Could have maybe but not anymore. Not anywhere near close. Like you said it's this is 2008 and not 1981.

[Fire99]

Apologies if im repeating something already said (the thread is getting rather looooong) but the voice issue regarding JSS does quite frankly smell something dodgy..

They worked together previously on Soul Sirkus so Neal and Dean would be both very aware of what Jeff's vocal range sounded like and his style etc..

Not to mention Jeff's 20 odd year history with other projects..

Come on these guys are professionals. you can't ignore Jeff's back catalog, Soul Sirkus plus a good number of live Journey shows and then listen to a couple of Demo's and say.. "oooooo Jeff's voice isn't right for us"

I don't know the facts (as most of us don't) but that just doesn't add up one bit..

In regards to Soul Sirkus, Jeff himself said that Neal didn't want it to be Journey 2. Jeff has a Heavy Metal voice which was wanted for that project. Has he ever put out a pop orientated album like that box of Sugar pops called "Raised on Radio"? I think the Journey gig was the exception rather then the rule when it comes to the Style of Vocal he is known for.

True mate.. i see where you are coming from.. But my point was that Neal and the band would know very well how Jeff sounds from his countless projects over the years and of course their time together in Soul Sirkus..
I could understand them letting Jeff bail them out after 'tape-gate' as a temporary stand-in but if they knew He was a 'square peg in a round hole' then why announce him as the permanent new singer??

If this were some inexperienced pub band ok but come on.. Journey with all its musicians, experience (including that with Jeff) and huge management profile.. I'm sure they would of sussed what Jeffs voice sounds like before the Demo's.. and they would of heard the recordings of their Journey gigs together..

I'm sorry.. I don't buy it from Schon.. I think the statement in Classic Rock is a half-arsed poor excuse and an attempt to let the issue drop...

[nolippin]

They also knew how he sounded singing Journey songs because they included Journey songs as Soul Sirkus.

Apologies if im repeating something already said (the thread is getting rather looooong) but the voice issue regarding JSS does quite frankly smell something dodgy..

They worked together previously on Soul Sirkus so Neal and Dean would be both very aware of what Jeff's vocal range sounded like and his style etc..

Not to mention Jeff's 20 odd year history with other projects..

Come on these guys are professionals. you can't ignore Jeff's back catalog, Soul Sirkus plus a good number of live Journey shows and then listen to a couple of Demo's and say.. "oooooo Jeff's voice isn't right for us"

I don't know the facts (as most of us don't) but that just doesn't add up one bit..

In regards to Soul Sirkus, Jeff himself said that Neal didn't want it to be Journey 2. Jeff has a Heavy Metal voice which was wanted for that project. Has he ever put out a pop orientated album like that box of Sugar pops called "Raised on Radio"? I think the Journey gig was the exception rather then the rule when it comes to the Style of Vocal he is known for.

True mate.. i see where you are coming from.. But my point was that Neal and the band would know very well how Jeff sounds from his countless projects over the years and of course their time together in Soul Sirkus..
I could understand them letting Jeff bail them out after 'tape-gate' as a temporary stand-in but if they knew He was a 'square peg in a round hole' then why announce him as the permanent new singer??

If this were some inexperienced pub band ok but come on.. Journey with all its musicians, experience (including that with Jeff) and huge management profile.. I'm sure they would of sussed what Jeffs voice sounds like before the Demo's.. and they would of heard the recordings of their Journey gigs together..

I'm sorry.. I don't buy it from Schon.. I think the statement in Classic Rock is a half-arsed poor excuse and an attempt to let the issue drop...

[Deb]

They also knew how he sounded singing Journey songs because they included Journey songs as Soul Sirkus.

True. Send Her My Love with Soul Sirkus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l26gb2X-XdQ

[annie89509]

Whether you like Arnel or not, there is no denying when you listen to a track like "After All These Years", it is a classic Journey sounding track!


John from Boston

That is very true.

It is a well-written song that BEGS for Perry's voice...AP is a "marginal" substitute for THE VOICE.

Sorry...my opinion.

my opinion, too. SP would have made the song better, add in his creative touches, a little more melody, change up the lyrics and not make it so smaltzy. This is 2008, not 1981.

Could have maybe but not anymore. Not anywhere near close. Like you said it's this is 2008 and not 1981.

I was comparing the smaltziness of AATY with OA. I think Jon was going for a WYLAW tune, but it fell flat. WYLAW is a better song .... to my ears. Put the 2 songs up, FF. Let's compare.

[RedWingFan]

But what turned my head around was when we wrote a couple of new songs. We sent them to Jeff... he laid down some vocals...and it didn't sound like Journey at all. Jeff didn't have to be a clone of Steve Perry, but his register was more like a baritone. We needed an alto-tenor... that timbre of voice that everybody's used to. So that was the problem. It didn't sound great. It didn't sound like Journey.. It was just very nondescript."

He pretty much described the 2 shows I saw last year with this paragraph.