OT:Joe Elliot has no right to put down ANY band (audio link)

[Hollywood]

His vocals sound amazing for "Def Lep". The link just proves just how good he was back then. And why his voice was shot.

With the use it and lose it logic around here, Perry, Augeri, and Elliot, people never mention the Tommy Shaw's and Ann Wilson's of the world. These guys still sound perfect and seriously powerful.

[Vladan]

Def Leppard suck worst band of all time? probably neck and neck with Poison

[conversationpc]

Def Leppard suck worst band of all time? probably neck and neck with Poison

I like less than a handful of Poison's tunes but they are easily the worse of the two bands. At least Def Leppard were a serious hard rock band at one time.

[Ehwmatt]

I like em both, so kill me.

Both are a blast to see live

[Enigma869]

Def Leppard suck worst band of all time?

The "worst" band of all time??? Are you nuts, dude???? Sorry, don't agree with this, AT ALL! Def Leppard has put out two of the greatest albums in rock history! Although I don't keep up with these things, I would suspect that they rival Journey or even have passed them in overall sales. Also, they've had basically the same lineup for over 25 years, with the exception of having to replace a band member who died! Whether you like these guys or not...they're NOWHERE near one of the worst bands of all time! I LOATHE the Rolling Stones, because I think Mick Jagger is a talentless fuck That said, just by virtue of sheer longevity, I'd never put them among the worst bands of all time... and yes, longevity does count for something, because if you truly suck that badly, you'll never have the option of hanging around for decades! I think another thing worth mentioning is that out of all of the 80's bands that are actually still around (and there aren't many), the only ones I can think of who have never disappeared from the scene are Def Leppard, U2, and Bon Jovi!


John from Boston

[bru87tr]

JE was never a real singer, if you want to pin him as that. considering, I think it sounds pretty dang good. he a rocker!

he was a wannabe rock star who became one, not a real singer. how anyone can think that doesnt sound good for what it is....well ok.

as for his comments. he can say what he wants, he may not always be right but sometimes he is. people just dont like the truth.

he is an idiot for not taking care of his voice though.

[bru87tr]

His vocals sound amazing for "Def Lep". The link just proves just how good he was back then. And why his voice was shot.

With the use it and lose it logic around here, Perry, Augeri, and Elliot, people never mention the Tommy Shaw's and Ann Wilson's of the world. These guys still sound perfect and seriously powerful.

Tommy Shaw has a great voice and some of the most overlooked solo stuff ever.

a shame.

[Enigma869]

JE was never a real singer

I don't even know what this means. He's certainly no Steve Perry, but seemed to have carved out a reasonable career for himself, for a singer who wasn't "real" I'm not sure that any 80's band sold more albums than Leppard did...maybe Bon Jovi! Other than that, these guys are a VERY succssful band, by ANY measurement!

he is an idiot for not taking care of his voice though.

No argument from me here. Joe has been a chain smoker, as long as I can remember. I'm not sure if he still smokes or not, but the damage has been done. I've never been able to wrap my head around the concept of a professional singer smoking! Hell, I don't grasp the concept of ANYONE smoking. It's just beyond belief to me that ANY singer would smoke ANYTHING! It's the equivalent of a guitarist squeezing his fingers into a vice


John from Boston

[janus65]

I'll still ALWAYS respect the hell out of that band. The guys in Journey could learn something from the loyalty the guys in DL showed when their drummer lost an arm! I know absolutely nothing about drumming but have been in awe of Rick Allen since the dude started drumming with one arm...Absolutely AMAZING!

John from Boston

The drummer was supposed to be canned if he hasnt been able to make some improvement in his recovery for a given period of time. His fellow band member encouraged him to work out and some has doubts, but with the help of custom electronic drums he was able to do some adjustments using his feet to make up his lost hand. He is just lucky that he was able to recover from accident for a short period of time and the band never sought for his replacement. I cant compare them with Journey for Steve Perry not telling when he will seek treatment. I bet neither DL cant wait 2 years for his recovery..

[Enigma869]

The drummer was supposed to be canned if he hasnt been able to make some improvement in his recovery for a given period of time. His fellow band member encouraged him to work out and some has doubts, but with the help of custom electronic drums he was able to do some adjustments using his feet to make up his lost hand. He is just lucky that he was able to recover from accident for a short period of time and the band never sought for his replacement. I cant compare them with Journey for Steve Perry not telling when he will seek treatment. I bet neither DL cant wait 2 years for his recovery..

I think you're really missing the point! I've been a fan of Leppard for MANY years, so really don't need you to elucidate me on the facts and history of the band. I can cite it, chapter and verse! I wasn't suggesting that Def Leppard wouldn't have moved on with a new drummer, had Rick Allen not been able to continue. I was merely making the point that it is VERY well known that the members Def Leppard NEVER even once discussed a replacement for Allen, after his horriffic car accident. The amazing part of that is I can't believe that ANYONE (including Allen, himself) thought there was ANY way for a drummer to continue in a band, minus an arm! I simply pointing out that these guys were loyal to Allen, and that should be respected and admired. What would have or what could have happened is beyond irrelevant. It's what did happen that gained my lifelong respect for these guys!


John from Boston

[weatherman90]

His vocals sound amazing for "Def Lep". The link just proves just how good he was back then. And why his voice was shot.

With the use it and lose it logic around here, Perry, Augeri, and Elliot, people never mention the Tommy Shaw's and Ann Wilson's of the world. These guys still sound perfect and seriously powerful.

Couldn't agree with you more, there. I saw Styx for the first time last month and then again just a few weeks ago and both times I was blown away by Shaw's voice. He sounds awesome!

I'm a huge Heart fan and I think Ann is the greatest female vocalist of all time, without a doubt. I've yet to hear her live, though, but some time soon I plan on getting to a show by whatever means possible!

[weatherman90]

JE was never a real singer

I don't even know what this means. He's certainly no Steve Perry, but seemed to have carved out a reasonable career for himself, for a singer who wasn't "real" I'm not sure that any 80's band sold more albums than Leppard did...maybe Bon Jovi! Other than that, these guys are a VERY succssful band, by ANY measurement!

Nope...Bon Jovi doesn't even have them beat. I checked it out one time and Leppard was indeed the biggest selling band of the decade.

[finalfight]

Still no Trial By Fire vocal recordings. I want to believe such a thing exists but the issue has been skirted around so much that I am gonna call bullsh!t until I hopefully get proved wrong. If they do eventually get posted I will upload the sh!teous Rob Halford isolated vocals from a recent concert tour for all to be horrified at.

Liquid Drummer - I have Audacity and Cubase and can't achieve anywhere near the kind of recording you have talked about in the past. You mentioned isolating the centre channel but how would you go about doing that on a stero recording? Any help would be appreciated...

Until then...

[Fire99]

I have to admit i was a bit disappointed by Joe Elliotts comments as i've been a long term fan and i think you are on shakey ground when you start naming and shaming bands..

However i thought the vocal track sounded pretty impressive. Joe was no virtuoso singer on 'On Through the Night' and he's never aspired to having the best throat in the world but Def Leppard has generally got the best from its ingredients..

Joe's voice has aged with the years and i don't think he has looked after his voice as well as many.. (im sure he still smokes or atleast did up until recent years).. But especially on lower key mellower stuff he has an appealing quality which alot of people like..

So cutting to the chase.. not a bad vocal track IMO.

[EME]

Perhaps it's just me, but I didn't think there was any real difference from what ended up on the album...or live (I have a Hammy Odeon bootleg from the High N' Dry tour).

Certainly still a decent act...far better than the previous time I saw them, when Tesla wiped the floor with them..and the new album is pretty good..well to these ears.

At 49, Joe should concentrate on the fact that their contract with Mercury is up after this album.


Regards,
EME

[Enigma869]

I have to admit i was a bit disappointed by Joe Elliotts comments as i've been a long term fan and i think you are on shakey ground when you start naming and shaming bands..

Agreed. I really don't know what Joe is hoping to accomplish in a "war of the words". It all seems rather high schoolish to me!

However i thought the vocal track sounded pretty impressive.

Agreed. I respect LD and have heard him sing (dude has some pipes for a drummer). I just don't get his point of posting something that everyone (except him) thinks sounds good and he says sounds like shit (or "shite", to be more accurate)! It reminds me of when our friend Jeff first joined Journey. Someone on this board posted Jeff singing "Separate Ways" with Journey as an example of how perfect Jeff was for Journey. I got some shit for calling it what it was...a complete DISASTER! To be fair to Jeff, he did improve, over time, singing the classics!

Joe was no virtuoso singer on 'On Through the Night' and he's never aspired to having the best throat in the world but Def Leppard has generally got the best from its ingredients..

Spot on with these comments. Elliot was never a great vocalist, and I don't ever recall anyone (including Joe) claiming that he was. That said, I always thought the guy had a great voice. I could listen to the track "Hysteria" a million times, and never tire of it!


John from Boston

[finalfight]

I have to admit i was a bit disappointed by Joe Elliotts comments as i've been a long term fan and i think you are on shakey ground when you start naming and shaming bands..

Agreed. I really don't know what Joe is hoping to accomplish in a "war of the words". It all seems rather high schoolish to me!

However i thought the vocal track sounded pretty impressive.

Agreed. I respect LD and have heard him sing (dude has some pipes for a drummer). I just don't get his point of posting something that everyone (except him) thinks sounds good and he says sounds like shit (or "shite", to be more accurate)! It reminds me of when our friend Jeff first joined Journey. Someone on this board posted Jeff singing "Separate Ways" with Journey as an example of how perfect Jeff was for Journey. I got some shit for calling it what it was...a complete DISASTER! To be fair to Jeff, he did improve, over time, singing the classics!

Joe was no virtuoso singer on 'On Through the Night' and he's never aspired to having the best throat in the world but Def Leppard has generally got the best from its ingredients..

Spot on with these comments. Elliot was never a great vocalist, and I don't ever recall anyone (including Joe) claiming that he was. That said, I always thought the guy had a great voice. I could listen to the track "Hysteria" a million times, and never tire of it!


John from Boston

I'm with liquid on this and actually thought it was a poor vocal performance but no worse than that of many other professional singers. I believe this to be the actual vocal track used sans reverb and as such it has already been touched up and fixed here and there. You can definitely hear re-tuning toward the end of the song.

Incidentally the worst/most copious use of autotuning I ever heard was on Jared Leto's (30 Seconds To Mars) vocals. Stripped of the music and just listening to the bare voccal is a shocking experience as you can literally hear the program pulling his vocal back into tune every couple of seconds. I think the song was called The Kill. I can post it if anyone is interested? Makes Joe E sound like Soto!!!

[JRNYLIVE]

He sounds great as far as I'm concerned. He's no Steve Perry but his voice is still very good.

my thoughts exactly......especially 30 years in. What did Perry last 10 good years and had to quit because his voice was shot. If Perry had the balls to be still be out touring i bet he wouldnt sound near as good as Joe does.

whatever happened to freedom of speech?

[JRNYLIVE]

I think it sounds shite and liked them up to pyromania. After that all shite IMO. I love Bringin on the heartbreak myself its just that based on his performance he has no business putting down anyone. Pour Some Sugar and Lets get rocked was fucking garbage. IMO almost as bad as We built this city..... Ewwww shudder..

I didn't care much for Pour Some Sugar On Me. WAY too bubblegum pop for my taste. I really hated Let's Get Rocked. That said, as a whole, I thought Hysteria was a VERY good album, and Hysteria (the track) is one of the best songs, EVER! If you ever get your hands on the Hysteria documentary DVD, there is a bonus clip on there with just Joe and Phil Collen playing guitar (non electric) and singing Hysteria. It's a GREAT performance with no artificial enhancements!

John from Boston

here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsBSEvPApQU

[ProgRocker53]

Def Leppard suck worst band of all time? probably neck and neck with Poison

Poison IS pretty bad, but seriously... Def Leppard is nowhere near the worst band of all time....

[Don]

That Leppard or any of these guys are still touring and putting out new music scores points with me. I saw Loggins last year and he still does a great show. He paces himself, adjusts vocally when he has to and saves his hardest song (Forever) for last so he can go full throttle on it vocally. Him and Perry are the same age. Why can't Perry make adjustments like Kenny does and get out there and perform? It can't just be the voice, Perry must have other issues going on.

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

[ I would suspect that they rival Journey or even have passed them in overall sales.




Nah, they are approx 20 million albums BEHIND Journey - i loved the first 3 albums but it went cold for me after that - too heavily produced a sound.
As to loyalty - they did bin guitarist Pete Willis cos he had a drink problem - but this was when they were about to break America so i can kinda understand that.....

[finalfight]

He sounds great as far as I'm concerned. He's no Steve Perry but his voice is still very good.

my thoughts exactly......especially 30 years in. What did Perry last 10 good years and had to quit because his voice was shot. If Perry had the balls to be still be out touring i bet he wouldnt sound near as good as Joe does.

whatever happened to freedom of speech?

You have both gotta be high. Remember its not the original vocal as came out of Joe's mouth, it has already gone through the studio production process. Notes corrected, layering, timing, basically the works. Stick some reverb/delay on it and its done - its not his original vocal as recorded. If you want evidence of that listening to the retuning at around the 2:47 mark on the simply line 'Can't you see' . Extraordinary!

If Perry had the balls to be still be out touring i bet he wouldnt sound near as good as Joe does.

whatever happened to freedom of speech?

That's just f@cking stupid. You should have your freedom of speech revoked for that comment alone.

[finalfight]

Whilst this thread is still alive -

Liquid Drummer, any news on the almost mythical Trial By Fire vocal tracks that you managed to create?

Please and pretty please...

[Enigma869]

here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsBSEvPApQU

Thanks for posting that. Dude still sounds great, a far as I'm concerned! I'd love to see some of our in-house melodic rock singers sound half this good, while just strumming on a 6-string, and smoking 4 packs of Marlboros a day


John from Boston

[Liquid_Drummer]

Still no Trial By Fire vocal recordings. I want to believe such a thing exists but the issue has been skirted around so much that I am gonna call bullsh!t until I hopefully get proved wrong. If they do eventually get posted I will upload the sh!teous Rob Halford isolated vocals from a recent concert tour for all to be horrified at.

Liquid Drummer - I have Audacity and Cubase and can't achieve anywhere near the kind of recording you have talked about in the past. You mentioned isolating the centre channel but how would you go about doing that on a stero recording? Any help would be appreciated...

Until then...

THat recording from the Def Leppard song was THE main VOX track. I have every track in that recording accept the lead guitars.. Its the real session tracks and not some filter used to get hsi voice out there. What you heard was the true unprocessed vocal track from the session. This stuff leaked out a few months ago along with the 24-track master of Bohemian Rhapsody, Whats going on (marvin gaye) and a few others..

What I have been trying to do is to get adobe audition to work again like it did before my comp crash. I had some custom filters that I had made for center channel separation that brought Perry way out from minus most effects. The downside is a swirly bad mp3 type sound.. Since I lost my setting for those filters I have to recreate them and the 1st time I lucked on to the right settings. On top of the that my damn TBF cd MIA... I do still plan to do this so please be patient.

[Liquid_Drummer]

here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsBSEvPApQU

Thanks for posting that. Dude still sounds great, a far as I'm concerned! I'd love to see some of our in-house melodic rock singers sound half this good, while just strumming on a 6-string, and smoking 4 packs of Marlboros a day


John from Boston

IM your huckleberry.. I smoke a pack a day and did good enough for JSS to give me an attaboy on the Journey tunes I covered. I can do it in the studio but not live. Same probably applies for JE.

[hoagiepete]

Trouble with Joe is this, he has the look of a rock star, he's sellable, they'll always work around the voice to make the bucks. Thanks for the link, it's something most of us expect to hear.
If we opened this style of scruntiny with other bands who would you list as being in the same stable as Joe?

Bachman Turner Overdrives vocalist

Canned Heat......

Bachman Turner Overweight as Burton Cummings used to call them in his Randy feud days

Great band nonetheless though. Meat n potatoes rock n roll at its best. Randy is one of the most underrated axemen in the biz. He's really never gotten his due, ever.

I can't believe you are picking on BTO. They had some of the best straight ahead rock n roll of all time. Sure the vocals weren't smooth or tenor, but hell it was rock n roll! I sure didn't hear any effects to dress it up, that is for sure.

[finalfight]

Still no Trial By Fire vocal recordings. I want to believe such a thing exists but the issue has been skirted around so much that I am gonna call bullsh!t until I hopefully get proved wrong. If they do eventually get posted I will upload the sh!teous Rob Halford isolated vocals from a recent concert tour for all to be horrified at.

Liquid Drummer - I have Audacity and Cubase and can't achieve anywhere near the kind of recording you have talked about in the past. You mentioned isolating the centre channel but how would you go about doing that on a stero recording? Any help would be appreciated...

Until then...

THat recording from the Def Leppard song was THE main VOX track. I have every track in that recording accept the lead guitars.. Its the real session tracks and not some filter used to get hsi voice out there. What you heard was the true unprocessed vocal track from the session. This stuff leaked out a few months ago along with the 24-track master of Bohemian Rhapsody, Whats going on (marvin gaye) and a few others..

What I have been trying to do is to get adobe audition to work again like it did before my comp crash. I had some custom filters that I had made for center channel separation that brought Perry way out from minus most effects. The downside is a swirly bad mp3 type sound.. Since I lost my setting for those filters I have to recreate them and the 1st time I lucked on to the right settings. On top of the that my damn TBF cd MIA... I do still plan to do this so please be patient.

Thanks for the update and good luck getting your custom filter working again.

I have a ton of stripped down bits and bobs. The most recent ones I got were a few Beatles tracks separated into bass, drums, guitar and vocals. I believe most of the new stuff coming out is sourced from games such as Guitar Hero and Rock Band.

Incidentally I am certain that Def Lippard track is processed. Joe's vocals are compressed, gated, layered and there is some obvious retuning in parts. The only thing missing is reverb or delay other than that its the studio finished version. Its been enhanced and it still sounds like sh!t. Imagine what the high and dry vocals would sound like...yikes!

[Pelata]

You may not like Nelson, but those dudes can out sing just about anyone.

Exactly what I was thinking...