Had an intersting discussion on religion at work today.

[Enigma869]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!


John from Boston

[iceberg]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!

John from Boston

gotta plus 1 you on the electronics in school. in jr high all i ever had was that cheap football game with the red dot that moved up, down, left and never backwards. disconnect the speaker and play during geography! : )

but you're in school to learn, not jam, txt or talk. if you're in study hall or things like that, ipod away cause i love music while i get work done. but during a regular class? nope. cell phone? why? the office can come get you if it's an emergency.

as for the bible - i don't have a problem reading it on school grounds, i do have a problem with the problems that alone will cause. so to keep the peace, read it at home and keep religion to yourself.

[artist4perry]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!


John from Boston

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

[iLex]

Funny, my husband wasn't raised a christian, but became one as a teanager. He was just curious, and read up on it. What is this need to put down Christianity for some of you anyway?

Luckily that doesn't happen very often.

Wanna know why you are a christian and not a muslim?
A) Christian indoctrination by your christian parents/environment .
B) You got born in a christian country.

That's why most muslims live in muslim-countries, christians in christian-countries and so on.
This proves it has more to do with indoctrination than it has to do with free choice.

I'm not putting down christianity in specific, anti-religious arguments apply on any religion.
As said, basically every religion has the same ingredients.

[artist4perry]

Funny, my husband wasn't raised a christian, but became one as a teanager. He was just curious, and read up on it. What is this need to put down Christianity for some of you anyway?

Luckily that doesn't happen very often.

Wanna know why you are a christian and not a muslim?
A) Christian indoctrination by your christian parents/environment .
B) You got born in a christian country.

That's why most muslims live in muslim-countries, christians in christian-countries and so on.
This proves it has more to do with indoctrination than it has to do with free choice.

I'm not putting down christianity in specific, anti-religious arguments apply on any religion.
As said, basically every religion has the same ingredients.

You are welcome to your oppinion, but only a christian can say why hs or she is one or not. I disagree with your oppinion. And again I want to know why this is so important to you to tear others beliefs down?

[iceberg]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!


John from Boston

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

because sooner or later someone will make it an issue and you're suddenly in court for it and it's all stupid to me. we can't say merry christmas cause it's offensive to *some*. people *look* for reasons to claim persacution and in the lack of it there, they'll look for it. if all were equal and he could read in peace, more power to him. but when another kid comes up and says "what'cha doin'?" what's a kid gonna do. tell him and talk about it.

the other kid goes home and tells him mom what he learned in school today and this parent is upset and goes yelling at the school. i'd rather avoid those types of arguments and say religion has no place "here" in the school (and keep in mind i went for 5 years to a private catholic school) but you're welcome to do it where it's widely accepted and not as likely to cause needless confrontation.

[Enigma869]

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

I guess it's like everything else in The Constitution...Open to interpretation! I don't interpret "Freedom of Religion" as meaning being able to occur in government run facilities, which public schools are! That's where I point you to the Separation of Church and State!


John from Boston

[artist4perry]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!


John from Boston

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

because sooner or later someone will make it an issue and you're suddenly in court for it and it's all stupid to me. we can't say merry christmas cause it's offensive to *some*. people *look* for reasons to claim persacution and in the lack of it there, they'll look for it. if all were equal and he could read in peace, more power to him. but when another kid comes up and says "what'cha doin'?" what's a kid gonna do. tell him and talk about it.

the other kid goes home and tells him mom what he learned in school today and this parent is upset and goes yelling at the school. i'd rather avoid those types of arguments and say religion has no place "here" in the school (and keep in mind i went for 5 years to a private catholic school) but you're welcome to do it where it's widely accepted and not as likely to cause needless confrontation.

I understand where you are coming from, but the first ammendment gives the child the right. As long as the child is reading to themselves there is no problem. I have worked in schools, and only someone who wants to persicute christians have a problem with it. It should not be taken from a child because someone is predjudiced against christians.

[Rick]

Funny, my husband wasn't raised a christian, but became one as a teanager. He was just curious, and read up on it. What is this need to put down Christianity for some of you anyway?

Luckily that doesn't happen very often.

Wanna know why you are a christian and not a Muslim?
A) Christian indoctrination by your christian parents/environment .
B) You got born in a christian country.

That's why most Muslims live in Muslim-countries, christians in christian-countries and so on.
This proves it has more to do with indoctrination than it has to do with free choice.

I'm not putting down Christianity in specific, anti-religious arguments apply on any religion.
As said, basically every religion has the same ingredients.

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

[artist4perry]

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

I guess it's like everything else in The Constitution...Open to interpretation! I don't interpret "Freedom of Religion" as meaning being able to occur in government run facilities, which public schools are! That's where I point you to the Separation of Church and State!


John from Boston

Separation of Church and State was in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson. It is not in any of our laws. Re-read the first ammendment
[url]The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/url]

[iceberg]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!


John from Boston

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

because sooner or later someone will make it an issue and you're suddenly in court for it and it's all stupid to me. we can't say merry christmas cause it's offensive to *some*. people *look* for reasons to claim persacution and in the lack of it there, they'll look for it. if all were equal and he could read in peace, more power to him. but when another kid comes up and says "what'cha doin'?" what's a kid gonna do. tell him and talk about it.

the other kid goes home and tells him mom what he learned in school today and this parent is upset and goes yelling at the school. i'd rather avoid those types of arguments and say religion has no place "here" in the school (and keep in mind i went for 5 years to a private catholic school) but you're welcome to do it where it's widely accepted and not as likely to cause needless confrontation.

I understand where you are coming from, but the first ammendment gives the child the right. As long as the child is reading to themselves there is no problem. I have worked in schools, and only someone who wants to persicute christians have a problem with it. It should not be taken from a child because someone is predjudiced against christians.

you simply can't make everyone happy so "rights" come with compromise. it's not *my* right to do whatever i feel the constitution says i can do - i must do it within a practical manner in our own society and use my own common sense as to when i can safely exersize my rights and when it's going to cause problems.

i wish it were not so and everyone got along, but we don't. so you have to find some middle ground, to me anyway.

[artist4perry]

Besides that, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with any child reading a Bible during a break or recess at school if that's what they wish to do. To take away that right would mean a loss of freedom, which should be available for all to enjoy.

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!


John from Boston

What is the difference what the child reads as long as it is read in silence? Basicly that would be taking away rights given in the first amendment.

because sooner or later someone will make it an issue and you're suddenly in court for it and it's all stupid to me. we can't say merry christmas cause it's offensive to *some*. people *look* for reasons to claim persacution and in the lack of it there, they'll look for it. if all were equal and he could read in peace, more power to him. but when another kid comes up and says "what'cha doin'?" what's a kid gonna do. tell him and talk about it.

the other kid goes home and tells him mom what he learned in school today and this parent is upset and goes yelling at the school. i'd rather avoid those types of arguments and say religion has no place "here" in the school (and keep in mind i went for 5 years to a private catholic school) but you're welcome to do it where it's widely accepted and not as likely to cause needless confrontation.

I understand where you are coming from, but the first ammendment gives the child the right. As long as the child is reading to themselves there is no problem. I have worked in schools, and only someone who wants to persicute christians have a problem with it. It should not be taken from a child because someone is predjudiced against christians.

you simply can't make everyone happy so "rights" come with compromise. it's not *my* right to do whatever i feel the constitution says i should do - i must do it within a practical manner in our own society and use my own common sense as to when i can safely exersize my rights and when it's going to cause problems.

i wish it were not so and everyone got along, but we don't. so you have to find some middle ground, to me anyway.

I am glad kids still have that right here. No one should loose a constitutional right because someone is biggoted against their feelings or beliefs. If we couldn't do something because it might offend someone, then no one can do anything, someone is always offended!

[Enigma869]

Separation of Church and State was in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson. It is not in any of our laws. Re-read the first ammendment
[url]The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/url]

I'm well aware of what the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says. I'm also well aware that that The Constitution is constantly being interpreted by our Supreme Court. Didn't the U.S. Supreme Court ban prayer from all school functions? My opinion stands...I don't believe religion belongs in public school, period! There is no way to equally cater to every different religion. While some states in this country don't allow you to be a resident unless you're an Evangelical Christian, not all states are so homogenous! In states that have far more diverse populations, it would be impossible to recognize every religion and every religious celebration. It's a lot easier just to keep it out of school, where it doesn't belong!


John from Boston

[artist4perry]

Separation of Church and State was in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson. It is not in any of our laws. Re-read the first ammendment
[url]The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/url]

I'm well aware of what the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says. I'm also well aware that that The Constitution is constantly being interpreted by our Supreme Court. Didn't the U.S. Supreme Court ban prayer from all school functions? My opinion stands...I don't believe religion belongs in public school, period! There is no way to equally cater to every different religion. While some states in this country don't allow you to be a resident unless you're an Evangelical Christian, not all states are so homogenous! In states that have far more diverse populations, it would be impossible to recognize every religion and every religious celebration. It's a lot easier just to keep it out of school, where it doesn't belong!


John from Boston

We were not discussing prayer. We were discussing private reading. That again sounds like an intolerence problem by the person who wishes for a child not to read to themself!

[iceberg]

We were not discussing prayer. We were discussing private reading. That again sounds like an intolerence problem by the person who wishes for a child not to read to themself!

private reading in a public school. that mix is what causes all this. if a private school they can do whatever they want. in a public school funded by in the end almost all religions, i don't think anyone can guarantee "private reading" would always stay that way.

[conversationpc]

This is a tough one for me. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a child should be free to read something on their break. Where it gets dicey for me is the activity happening in a public school. I don't believe there should be any religion in public schools, even on breaks. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think iPods, cell phones, and PSP's, and all kinds of other electronic devices should be allowed in school, either!

They would have to ban all books outside their textbooks then. Constitutionally, it is protected. Why would that be different than a student praying during their recess? You can't stop it anyway.

[artist4perry]

We were not discussing prayer. We were discussing private reading. That again sounds like an intolerence problem by the person who wishes for a child not to read to themself!

private reading in a public school. that mix is what causes all this. if a private school they can do whatever they want. in a public school funded by in the end almost all religions, i don't think anyone can guarantee "private reading" would always stay that way.

It would not bother me for a child to silent read a Koran, or a Bible, or Harry Potter! It is silent reading. I think the problem rests in biggotry. There is nothing in our laws forbidding a child to read the Bible silently on their spare time in school. But, for most of you that this seems to drive crazy, I keep my classrooms busy and we have no silent reading time.

[iLex]

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

Yeah sure, we have 'm here as well... loads of Moroccans.
What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

[S2M]

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

Yeah sure, we have 'm here as well... loads of Moroccans.
What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

+1

[iLex]

It would not bother me for a child to silent read a Koran, or a Bible,

What's wrong with the kids today? We used to save up for literature of a totally different kind... not allowed in school

[artist4perry]

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

Yeah sure, we have 'm here as well... loads of Moroccans.
What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

+1

That is your theory. Not a fact. People become christians or muslims for different reasons. My father told me to read about all religions and make up my own mind.

[conversationpc]

What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

Nah, I don't buy it...Islam is the fastest spreading religion in the world. If what you were saying was true, then any particular religion wouldn't spread all that readily. Most of those people who are converting to Islam were adherents of other religions so the statement that indoctrination is the main reason people believe just doesn't fly.

[S2M]

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

Yeah sure, we have 'm here as well... loads of Moroccans.
What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

+1

That is your theory. Not a fact. People become christians or muslims for different reasons. My father told me to read about all religions and make up my own mind.

Please explain the Amish to me then......those kids have NO idependent thought process...it's all raise a barn, churn some butter - paint a fence.....grow a beard w/o a mustache.....

[iceberg]

We were not discussing prayer. We were discussing private reading. That again sounds like an intolerence problem by the person who wishes for a child not to read to themself!

private reading in a public school. that mix is what causes all this. if a private school they can do whatever they want. in a public school funded by in the end almost all religions, i don't think anyone can guarantee "private reading" would always stay that way.

It would not bother me for a child to silent read a Koran, or a Bible, or Harry Potter! It is silent reading. I think the problem rests in biggotry. There is nothing in our laws forbidding a child to read the Bible silently on their spare time in school. But, for most of you that this seems to drive crazy, I keep my classrooms busy and we have no silent reading time.

doesn't drive me crazy at all. : ) i love these kinds of topics and to me it's how i find out about people.

i have no problem with a child reading their faith - even if school (public) if it were to be kept private. but a public school is a melting pot by nature and unless we're into providing private rooms where this can be done - privately - i don't think it would stay that way and soon we'd hear how some parents was vastly offended because their child was taught "another way" while at school - of which *that parent* didn't send their school to discuss religion.

if we could keep it private reading fine. i'm not sure we could, all i'm saying. i wish we could, that would be great - i just think you're inviting arguments in the end.

[iLex]

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

Yeah sure, we have 'm here as well... loads of Moroccans.
What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

+1

That is your theory. Not a fact. People become christians or muslims for different reasons. My father told me to read about all religions and make up my own mind.

More muslims in muslim-countries, more christians in christian countries. Denying this is just silly artist4perry, everyone will confirm this.

[artist4perry]

There are more and more Muslims here all the time. I went in to the locker room at work and a dude was kneeling on a mat in the middle of his ritual. I also found out that flight attendants are encouraged to permit Muslims on long flights to use the galley to perform their ritual, if possible. Times, they are a changin'.

Yeah sure, we have 'm here as well... loads of Moroccans.
What I'm saying is... in general, people brought up (indoctrinated) in a muslim environment will become muslims, people brought up in a christian environment will become christians.
This proves indoctrination is the main reason for people to stick to a sudden believe.

+1

That is your theory. Not a fact. People become christians or muslims for different reasons. My father told me to read about all religions and make up my own mind.

More muslims in muslim-countries, more christians in christian countries. Denying this is just silly artist4perry, everyone will confirm this.

I still do not agree, and everyone does not agree with you. When did you last poll everyone? LOL! Be careful, it is easy to generalize. I have made that mistake myself. I think the true question I have for you is, why are you trying to tear down religion?

[conversationpc]

More muslims in muslim-countries, more christians in christian countries. Denying this is just silly artist4perry, everyone will confirm this.

No one's saying that a particular religion being the most prominent one in a particular country doesn't mean that most of its citizens won't be adherents to that religion. However, this doesn't account for the millions of people around the world in other cultures, where other religions are the majority, that are converting to religions like Islam.

[Enigma869]

Please explain the Amish to me then......those kids have NO idependent thought process...it's all raise a barn, churn some butter - paint a fence.....grow a beard w/o a mustache.....

I shouldn't be laughing at this but this is funny shit!


John from Boston

[artist4perry]

Please explain the Amish to me then......those kids have NO idependent thought process...it's all raise a barn, churn some butter - paint a fence.....grow a beard w/o a mustache.....

I shouldn't be laughing at this but this is funny shit!


John from Boston

From what I understand, when they become a teenager they are sent out "into the world" to decide what they really believe. Some do not return. I am not sure exactly what sect does this.

[geforcefla]

Amish and Menonites are great people. Great neighbors, excellent cooks, and will kick your ass in beer league softball!!!