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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:58 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
EDIT: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_ ... rKUEZH2ocA it is shit like this that will haunt our country for decades if Obama loses!


That is really an unbelievable story...and at a "Christian" University! WTF! These people have some nerve calling themselves "Christian"! Well, as disappointing as it is, perhaps Dave might re-think his position that we're not a racist country! What more evidence is needed?


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Postby csiako » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:59 am

Lula wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:postponing the debate is ridiculous. we are on the verge of electing our next leader; we need to hear from them on more than one issue. what is so difficult about hopping a plane to ole miss after a day of work in dc on friday? why not have their second in command take the debate? just an aversion from the obvious. i guess mccain can't multitask.... shame, i'm pretty sure that is needed as president.


You're usually more level-headed than to level the "mccain can't multitask" comment. Very unlike you. Is this Deano?

nope, it's me dave. now i feel like i've disappointed you :cry:

i'm just frustrated with this mess. i want a bail out too! with medical bills and student loans i'm barely staying afloat.


that reminds me of that catholic ad ive seen.. very powerful
http://www.youtube.com/v/61wj4tJICcc

on another note: anybody know what the background music on the ad is?
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Postby Jana » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:02 pm

NOLIPPIN states: "Well, if Bush asked Obama to come back, too, then they both should be able to hop a plane after a day's work and make the debates. I'm sure Congress can muddle through without either of them while they debate.

If Obama shows, and McCain doesn't, McCain is done."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

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Postby nolippin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:06 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNew ... 2920080925



1-US lawmakers set to draft final bailout bill:source
Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:24pm EDT


WASHINGTON, Sept 24 (Reuters) - U.S. congressional Democrats and Republicans plan to meet on Thursday to draft a final bipartisan Wall Street bailout bill, a Democratic source said on Wednesday night.

"Not too many unresolved issues remain," the source said.

The source spoke after meetings earlier in the day by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and members of the House of Representatives and Senate.

House and Senate Democrats, along with some Republican committee members, intend "to sit down at 10 a.m. (1400 GMT) tomorrow to draft a final bipartisan bill to be passed and signed into law," the Democratic source said.

Earlier on Wednesday, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd emerged from a meeting with Paulson and other Democratic senators saying there was no deal yet on a financial bailout bill, but he expressed optimism one could come soon.

"We're not there yet," Dodd told reporters, adding there was a "good possibility we'll get there in a day or so."

Dodd refused to discuss details of the negotiations, but said lawmakers would work deliberatively on a bill he said could have an impact for "decades." (Reporting by Richard Cowan and Thomas Ferraro; Editing by Peter Cooney)
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:21 pm

Enigma869 wrote:That's your opinion Dave. I vehemently disagree with it. I've seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears! How anyone really believes we're not a racist country is beyond my level of comprehension. Hell, just two weeks ago, the news show 20/20 sent out identical resumes (meaning same exact experience and education) to many companies. Some of the resumes had "white sounding names" (their terminology, not mine), while others had "black sounding names" (Again, their terminology). In 100% of the cases, the white sounding names were called and the black sounding names were not called. It was quite honestly, shocking to watch. I cannot intelligently speak to the racism in other countries, because I haven't done much international travelling (and have no desire to). Because of that, I really don't know if we're any more racist or less racist than other countries. What I do know is that racism is alive and well in this country!


I've never said racism wasn't alive and well here but, no, I would not define this country as a racist country. Just because your experience is different from mine does not mean that you're right. There are probably also certain areas of the country that might be considered racist but, as a whole, I don't think that defines the entire country. In my opinion, it's more of a CLASS warfare thing than it is racist. I see lots of rich folk who think poor or middle class people are losers and poor and middle class people who think all rich people are snobs. THAT is what I see as the major problem rather than race.
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Postby Lula » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:24 pm

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Lula wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:postponing the debate is ridiculous. we are on the verge of electing our next leader; we need to hear from them on more than one issue. what is so difficult about hopping a plane to ole miss after a day of work in dc on friday? why not have their second in command take the debate? just an aversion from the obvious. i guess mccain can't multitask.... shame, i'm pretty sure that is needed as president.


You're usually more level-headed than to level the "mccain can't multitask" comment. Very unlike you. Is this Deano?

nope, it's me dave. now i feel like i've disappointed you :cry:

i'm just frustrated with this mess. i want a bail out too! with medical bills and student loans i'm barely staying afloat.


Me too...Emily is only subbing this year so the money is tight here too. But I still think that post was Dean! The syntax was all wrong for you Lu!


i think things are tight for many of us as of late. i figure i'll have a handle on it all at some point ;). the post really was me. syntax wrong? can't say, but it was me- my voice. maybe it's the frustration talking :lol:
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Postby treetopovskaya » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:53 pm

if it were obama postponing some (very bias... can't have a critical thought) people would have a different opinion. mccain isn't prez & already he can't do anything right in some minds. i think he's doing exactly what he should be doing... putting the people first.

obama should go to washington. maybe he is all talk... no action. yeah... that's who we need running our country.

just one word...

present!

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Postby Lula » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:15 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
didn't take me long in here to find the person who shouts tolerance the most, as usual, has the least.


condescending, arrogant and liberal seem to go together for some reason.


careful with generalizations. i'm kind of liberal, but not arrogant, or condescending!
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:18 pm

Lula wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
didn't take me long in here to find the person who shouts tolerance the most, as usual, has the least.


condescending, arrogant and liberal seem to go together for some reason.


careful with generalizations. i'm kind of liberal, but not arrogant, or condescending!


I agree...That's not a fair characterization at all. I can't stand liberal thought or ideas but I know lots of liberals that are just as nice as anyone else.
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Postby Lula » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:19 pm

kiss kiss dave, you're a peach 8)
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Postby Lula » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:23 pm

be it mccain or obama- postponing the debates does not make sense. now, during a crisis, the people need to see and hear from their soon to be leader, whichever candidate it may be. barack obama will be in dc and he'll debate.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:15 pm

Lula wrote:be it mccain or obama- postponing the debates does not make sense. now, during a crisis, the people need to see and hear from their soon to be leader, whichever candidate it may be. barack obama will be in dc and he'll debate.


I disagree...ALL our Senators AND Representatives need to work on and vote on this legislation and BE OFFICIALLY on record. Yes, if they're able to get this legislation done and passed before the debate is to begin, I think they should go ahead with it. Otherwise, they need to get this thing done.
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Postby csiako » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:26 pm

Lula wrote:be it mccain or obama- postponing the debates does not make sense. now, during a crisis, the people need to see and hear from their soon to be leader, whichever candidate it may be. barack obama will be in dc and he'll debate.


imo it does make sense. McCain said he will debate if a bill is passed solving the crisis.
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:51 pm

I guess everyone wants to look like Puppet Palin...

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-od ... Lookalike/


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Postby SteveForever » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:07 pm

pardon if this has already been mentioned.....

here they are running an ad non-stop highlighting McCain's skin cancer and how it
could return...that's so low~~~~ Obama smokes like a chimney and no one has
run an ad recognizing the possiblities of full blown cancer from that and the
nasty habit that is and what it does to add to pollution (butts never decompose)
and what a horrible example to American children that is.
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Postby strangegrey » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:13 pm

Sadly, I see this McCain 'put my campaign on hold' bullshit as just that. Bullshit. He's not scared of Obama, nor is he looking to protect Palin from Biden (who's a fucking buffoon that thinks TV was commonplace and FDR was president in 1929, :roll: )...

...The reason he's doing this, is because he wants to be seen as a senatorial savior of our economy. He will desperately try to have this bailout bear his name and try to take credit for it. He's taking a complete and utter beating in the polls for the financial crisis and needs to drum up a way out of this.

I for one, do not agree with the standard republican party line that's getting filtered around in that he, along with Obama needs to be in washington to 'help' with this...and that it's their "jobs"....bay buchanon can take that bullshit and serve it up at her family dinner with a few soup spoons.

The american people need to know how each candidate is going to deal with this crissis AFTER they have presidential power. Not while they have minimal voting power in a senate that has gotten along fine without them for approximately a year.


McCain's actions this week have actually lost my vote for him. I will *not* be voting for McCain in November. He's *not* a leader...and he's reconfirmed my initial opinion of him as a presidential candidate that I had back in 2000. He's a liar that will say or do anything to get a vote.


Just last night, I watched, completely jaw-dropped, as it was revealed that a son of John McCain worked as an executive for a bank in Nevada....the son, in pure Jeff Skilling fashion, quit with no good reasons, 2 months before the bank collapsed. How on earth can someone running for president say that the economy is strong earlier this week, having a personal connection to a bank collapse!?!?!?

Even so, according to McCain, the economy was strong and fine earlier this week. Now it's in desperate need of his sole help to avert crissis??!?!?! Enough so that he put the campaign on hold!?!?!?! Who the hell's going to believe this crap?!?!?!


Sorry....McCain lost my vote this week. I will *not* be voting for him in november.


If only Obama got rid of his buffoon running mate, I might actually pull a lever for some presidential candidate this november. as it stands now, I stay home...
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:24 pm

SteveForever wrote:pardon if this has already been mentioned.....

here they are running an ad non-stop highlighting McCain's skin cancer and how it
could return...that's so low~~~~ Obama smokes like a chimney and no one has
run an ad recognizing the possiblities of full blown cancer from that and the
nasty habit that is and what it does to add to pollution (butts never decompose)
and what a horrible example to American children that is.


This is false.
Obama has kicked the habit, not that it matters,
Wanna talk about setting bad examples?
McCain has a history of melanoma, and today relies only on a baseball cap and a dab of SPF-30 to protect him at outdoor press events.
Neither of which are effective against skin cancer.
I guess looking fashionable is more important than guarding one's life.
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Postby SteveForever » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:24 pm

Frank, you have to vote! come on....
I wish Hilary would step back in, atleast her and Biden
have experience and some vitality.

McCain is tired, Palin is inexperienced...
Biden is a used car salesman, and Obama
will not be able to lead and he's boring.

We need a remix...
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:36 pm

strangegrey wrote:Sadly, I see this McCain 'put my campaign on hold' bullshit as just that. Bullshit. He's not scared of Obama, nor is he looking to protect Palin from Biden (who's a fucking buffoon that thinks TV was commonplace and FDR was president in 1929, :roll: )...

...The reason he's doing this, is because he wants to be seen as a senatorial savior of our economy. He will desperately try to have this bailout bear his name and try to take credit for it. He's taking a complete and utter beating in the polls for the financial crisis and needs to drum up a way out of this.

I for one, do not agree with the standard republican party line that's getting filtered around in that he, along with Obama needs to be in washington to 'help' with this...and that it's their "jobs"....bay buchanon can take that bullshit and serve it up at her family dinner with a few soup spoons.

The american people need to know how each candidate is going to deal with this crissis AFTER they have presidential power. Not while they have minimal voting power in a senate that has gotten along fine without them for approximately a year.


McCain's actions this week have actually lost my vote for him. I will *not* be voting for McCain in November. He's *not* a leader...and he's reconfirmed my initial opinion of him as a presidential candidate that I had back in 2000. He's a liar that will say or do anything to get a vote.


Just last night, I watched, completely jaw-dropped, as it was revealed that a son of John McCain worked as an executive for a bank in Nevada....the son, in pure Jeff Skilling fashion, quit with no good reasons, 2 months before the bank collapsed. How on earth can someone running for president say that the economy is strong earlier this week, having a personal connection to a bank collapse!?!?!?

Even so, according to McCain, the economy was strong and fine earlier this week. Now it's in desperate need of his sole help to avert crissis??!?!?! Enough so that he put the campaign on hold!?!?!?! Who the hell's going to believe this crap?!?!?!


Sorry....McCain lost my vote this week. I will *not* be voting for him in november.


If only Obama got rid of his buffoon running mate, I might actually pull a lever for some presidential candidate this november. as it stands now, I stay home...



Spot on Frank. As soon as I saw McCain go walking out there for his "presidential" press conference, I almost puked! That was the most rehearsed bullshit I've ever seen in my life! I lost a lot of respect for McCain. He's always paying lip service to "Let's not have poltics as usual", and yet he goes to his Politics 101 textbook to pull this move! I absolutely would have voted for McCain had Romney been selected as his running mate. Puppet Palin is beyond useless and Biden has always annoyed me. I'm also sitting this one out!


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Postby strangegrey » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:37 pm

Seriously, I dont have to vote for anyone in November.

I live in a state that will go overwhelming for Obama. Me not voting for him isn't going to matter. But not voting for McCain will hopefully send a message to the RNC to stop supporting this sham of a republican.

Again, I can't pull a lever for that fuckwad Biden. I've never seen a worse VP candidate ever. He's a complete buffoon. FDR was president in 1929?!?!?! We want to elect this idiot to the second highest office in the country!?

Why the entire population of democrats doesn't petition Obama to fire this doufus and beg Hillary to join the ticket is beyond me!
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Postby Jana » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:48 pm

STRANGEGREY STATES: "Sadly, I see this McCain 'put my campaign on hold' bullshit as just that. Bullshit. He's not scared of Obama, nor is he looking to protect Palin from Biden (who's a fucking buffoon that thinks TV was commonplace and FDR was president in 1929, :roll: )...

...The reason he's doing this, is because he wants to be seen as a senatorial savior of our economy. He will desperately try to have this bailout bear his name and try to take credit for it. He's taking a complete and utter beating in the polls for the financial crisis and needs to drum up a way out of this.

I for one, do not agree with the standard republican party line that's getting filtered around in that he, along with Obama needs to be in washington to 'help' with this...and that it's their "jobs"....bay buchanon can take that bullshit and serve it up at her family dinner with a few soup spoons.

The american people need to know how each candidate is going to deal with this crissis AFTER they have presidential power. Not while they have minimal voting power in a senate that has gotten along fine without them for approximately a year.


McCain's actions this week have actually lost my vote for him. I will *not* be voting for McCain in November. He's *not* a leader...and he's reconfirmed my initial opinion of him as a presidential candidate that I had back in 2000. He's a liar that will say or do anything to get a vote.


Just last night, I watched, completely jaw-dropped, as it was revealed that a son of John McCain worked as an executive for a bank in Nevada....the son, in pure Jeff Skilling fashion, quit with no good reasons, 2 months before the bank collapsed. How on earth can someone running for president say that the economy is strong earlier this week, having a personal connection to a bank collapse!?!?!?

Even so, according to McCain, the economy was strong and fine earlier this week. Now it's in desperate need of his sole help to avert crissis??!?!?! Enough so that he put the campaign on hold!?!?!?! Who the hell's going to believe this crap?!?!?!


Sorry....McCain lost my vote this week. I will *not* be voting for him in november. "


___________________________________________________________________________________



You hit the nail on the head. He did want to be seen as the savior of the economy. He was saying last week the economy was basically fine. But all of a sudden now this week he's suspending his campain, the economy is in the tank and he's going to save it, like Strangegrey said. If people don't see through this maneuver, I don't know what to think. McCain had already lost my possible vote when he picked Palin. But I keep losing more and more respect for him. A week or so ago he was on Morning Joe and he did not like the questions Mica (phonetic) asked him. Of course, he won't answer questions he doesn't like, like about the negative campaign ads. He will deflect and say I've asked Obama to do Town Hall meetings. He keeps saying that in interviews when he doesn't like the question. He doesn't respond to the question that was asked and uses that tired line about town hall meetings. He was pretty much a jerk on the interview. He had a sneer and his facial muscles were twitching by the end. It was via satellite.
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Postby strangegrey » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:57 pm

That's something that bothered me about him in 2000 and it's starting to bother me now....

he has this sly, "I'm lying through my politician" teeth smile that turns me off.
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Postby classicstyxfan » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:39 pm

I thought this article did a good job of summarizing the differences between the 2 candidates position on taxation.....Im not sure if the Wall Street Journal shows a bias towards one candidate or the other, but this article seems objective to me.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122221857642269749.html
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:00 am

classicstyxfan wrote:I thought this article did a good job of summarizing the differences between the 2 candidates position on taxation.....Im not sure if the Wall Street Journal shows a bias towards one candidate or the other, but this article seems objective to me.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122221857642269749.html



If you look at that graphic in the article the big difference you see is the 35,000 tax increase for higher earners in the Obama plan.
Does that mean that those people will cut back on

1- charitable donations
2- stock market investments
3- buying high priced items to boost the economy
Or will they spend or invest as normal but having less in their estate to pass onto their children. It likely to be 1-3

Second question is where does that 35,000 of revenue to the govt go -

1- 10,000 of it gets wasted in running the beuracracy
2- 20,000 of it gets lost in lower receipts to the government in taxes from the reduced stock market investments, purchases that would have been made
3- 5,000 migh actually get spent on somehting- e.g Reseach into how bears shag each other and how you can do DNA tests on it, aid to Baluchistan, etc etc etc If were lucky it accidentally gets spent to replace the charitable donations the rich guy aint making anymore

Great return on investment.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:02 am

With falling government revenues the Federal Government with the 1932 Revenue Act drasticly increased taxes on the top earners. The top rate went from 25% to 63%. Real GDP dropped by 13.3% and unemployment rose from 15.9% to 23.6%.

If Obama raises taxes like he wants too we are to put it mildly...fucked.
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Postby classicstyxfan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:23 am

"If Obama raises taxes like he wants too we are to put it mildly...fucked."


even worse than we are now after 8 years of the alternative ? My share of the proposed bailout is $250.00 ( so far !) and thats probably the tip of the iceburg. Im thinking the Depression that started in 1929 might have been a factor back in 1932.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:54 am

classicstyxfan wrote:"If Obama raises taxes like he wants too we are to put it mildly...fucked."


even worse than we are now after 8 years of the alternative ? My share of the proposed bailout is $250.00 ( so far !) and thats probably the tip of the iceburg. Im thinking the Depression that started in 1929 might have been a factor back in 1932.


It was a factor...this deepened it significantly. The bailout if it ends up costing $700 Billion will cost each and every one of us $3000, at least that was the last number I heard.

Yes Far Far worse...most people have done pretty well over the last 8 years, not great, but not too bad either.

Look Obama is going to be the President, of that I have no doubt now, but he is going to kill not just the banking industry (as I and many others here have said Bush and Congress have done) but the WHOLE economy if he raises taxes like he says he will.

As for the depression you should go read the time line on the whole thing, it's really quite interesting, and the republicans were to blame for it.
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Postby classicstyxfan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 am

well, I certainly hope you are wrong......its most likely we'll all know the answer in a few short years.


I will go check out that timeline.....half of what I know about the era I learned on Waltons Mountain ! :wink:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:06 am

classicstyxfan wrote:
I will go check out that timeline.....half of what I know about the era I learned on Waltons Mountain ! :wink:


LOL Well...it was a good show! "Good Night John Boy!"
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:16 am

What you're failing to acknowledge is that under Obama's plan, the people earning the most money would still be taxed less than during Reagan's Presidency.

You also need to realize that more middle class people will have more discretionary income under Obama's plan. That would certainly help fuel the economy.

Obama's position is hardly perfect, but it's a better plan for the long haul.
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