Had an intersting discussion on religion at work today.

[S2M]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

IF is for children.
You can do both.

I had a professor who used to scoff at any student who raised an 'IF' hypethetical situation. He said that hypethetical questions weren't worth anything, and he would field any of those kind of questions....cause they weren't 'reality'.

I thought for a moment...raised my hand, and calmly stated, 'If hypetheticals aren't reality, why do we have evacuation plans on every room in this school? I mean, a fire could be reality, right? The plans are there IF there is a fire, and students need to get out.'

He didn't know WHAT to say. He was OWNED that day....!

[RedWingFan]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

IF is for children.
You can do both.
We'll all have to account for ourselves. That eases my mind.

What part eases your mind?

I'll only have to answer for myself.
When I stand before God and sees me in my sinfulness. I'll have Jesus there to say, "This one is mine."
If you can get by on your own. I wish you luck.

[artist4perry]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

IF is for children.
You can do both.

I had a professor who used to scoff at any student who raised an 'IF' hypethetical situation. He said that hypethetical questions weren't worth anything, and he would field any of those kind of questions....cause they weren't 'reality'.

I thought for a moment...raised my hand, and calmly stated, 'If hypetheticals aren't reality, why do we have evacuation plans on every room in this school? I mean, a fire could be reality, right? The plans are there IF there is a fire, and students need to get out.'

He didn't know WHAT to say. He was OWNED that day....!

Explain to me why you cannot do both, innoculate and pray. What are you going to do put a gun to my head? Read my mind and see if I am doing a silent prayer. Stupid question.

[Rhiannon]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

IF is for children.
You can do both.

I had a professor who used to scoff at any student who raised an 'IF' hypethetical situation. He said that hypethetical questions weren't worth anything, and he would field any of those kind of questions....cause they weren't 'reality'.

I thought for a moment...raised my hand, and calmly stated, 'If hypetheticals aren't reality, why do we have evacuation plans on every room in this school? I mean, a fire could be reality, right? The plans are there IF there is a fire, and students need to get out.'

He didn't know WHAT to say. He was OWNED that day....!

Hypothetical realities and possibilities are two different things. There is a possibility your building could catch fire. You'd want to be prepared. And in the same respect, it is a possibility that Atheists are wrong about God, there is a possibility there is a hell. You're possibly wrong, you possibly suffer for eternity. Where as there is a possibility the spiritual believers are wrong, in which case there is a possibility we become dirt. Big deal. No loss there. The first one on the other hand...

The possibility of someone telling you to choose prayer or vaccine is not likely. Who would do that? It isn't logical. And isn't logic what Atheists base themselves on?

[Don]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

IF is for children.
You can do both.

I had a professor who used to scoff at any student who raised an 'IF' hypethetical situation. He said that hypethetical questions weren't worth anything, and he would field any of those kind of questions....cause they weren't 'reality'.

I thought for a moment...raised my hand, and calmly stated, 'If hypetheticals aren't reality, why do we have evacuation plans on every room in this school? I mean, a fire could be reality, right? The plans are there IF there is a fire, and students need to get out.'

He didn't know WHAT to say. He was OWNED that day....!

Hypothetical realities and possibilities are two different things. There is a possibility your building could catch fire. You'd want to be prepared. And in the same respect, it is a possibility that Atheists are wrong about God, there is a possibility there is a hell. You're possibly wrong, you possibly suffer for eternity. Where as there is a possibility the spiritual believers are wrong, in which case there is a possibility we become dirt. Big deal. No loss there. The first one on the other hand...

The possibility of someone telling you to choose prayer or vaccine is not likely. Who would do that? It isn't logical. And isn't logic what Atheists base themselves on?

I'm not an athiest but since i don't believe in the same conception of god as you guys I guess that means I'm a heathen. Of course you can always pray but not everyone can get inoculated. Will prayer keep the kids in Sudan or Ethiopa safe if they can't get vaccinated. But the standby answer will come into play. "We don't know why god let's them be sick, it is not for us to question, blah, blah blah". That's not good enough, why do we have a brain if we can't question things, give me provable answers, not hearsay from 2,000 years ago.

[artist4perry]

Then I'll throw back atcha: Who made god? OWNED!

God was. Period. God is eternal.

[iLex]

Ask a Darwinist how the complexities of the human eye evolved and they'll tell you.

"Well it's believed that it started with a collection of light sensitive cells.."

Where did the light sensitive cells come from?

You won't get an answer.

So untrue, of course you will get the answer. Why would it's evolution been any different from the rest. A very good book about how early life-forms evolved to humans is this one...
http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book.html

"Why do we look the way we do? What does the human hand have in common with the wing of a fly? Are breasts, sweat glands, and scales connected in some way? To better understand the inner workings of our bodies and to trace the origins of many of today’s most common diseases, we have to turn to unexpected sources: worms, flies, and even fish.

In Your Inner Fish, Neil Shubin tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria."

All mainstream science, no magic involved.

[artist4perry]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

IF is for children.
You can do both.

I had a professor who used to scoff at any student who raised an 'IF' hypethetical situation. He said that hypethetical questions weren't worth anything, and he would field any of those kind of questions....cause they weren't 'reality'.

I thought for a moment...raised my hand, and calmly stated, 'If hypetheticals aren't reality, why do we have evacuation plans on every room in this school? I mean, a fire could be reality, right? The plans are there IF there is a fire, and students need to get out.'

He didn't know WHAT to say. He was OWNED that day....!

Hypothetical realities and possibilities are two different things. There is a possibility your building could catch fire. You'd want to be prepared. And in the same respect, it is a possibility that Atheists are wrong about God, there is a possibility there is a hell. You're possibly wrong, you possibly suffer for eternity. Where as there is a possibility the spiritual believers are wrong, in which case there is a possibility we become dirt. Big deal. No loss there. The first one on the other hand...

The possibility of someone telling you to choose prayer or vaccine is not likely. Who would do that? It isn't logical. And isn't logic what Atheists base themselves on?

I'm not an athiest but since i don't believe in the same conception of god as you guys I guess that means I'm a heathen. Of course you can always pray but not everyone can get inoculated. Will prayer keep the kids in Sudan or Ethiopa safe if they can't get vaccinated. But the standby answer will come into play. "We don't know why god let's them be sick, it is not for us to question, blah, blah blah". That's not good enough, why do we have a brain if we can't question things, give me provable answers, not hearsay from 2,000 years ago.

That my friend is YOUR oppinion. One you are quite entitled to. One would be stupid to stand in the way of a train and just "pray". It would also call for some action. Get off the track. He also gives us common sense. I never heard God say, thou shalt not go to a doctor and get medicine. One of the appostles was told to take something for their stomachs sake. You are welcome to take medicine to these people, problem is the people who would not allow it. What keeps you from taking this medicine to them? Some evil government that would not allow it. Not God.

[RedWingFan]

Your Inner Fish

And Christians are the ones that rely on faith?

I have my Savior. You keep "Your Inner Fish"

[artist4perry]

Ask a Darwinist how the complexities of the human eye evolved and they'll tell you.

"Well it's believed that it started with a collection of light sensitive cells.."

Where did the light sensitive cells come from?

You won't get an answer.

So untrue, of course you will get the answer. Why would it's evolution been any different from the rest. A very good book about how early life-forms evolved to humans is this one...
http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book.html

"Why do we look the way we do? What does the human hand have in common with the wing of a fly? Are breasts, sweat glands, and scales connected in some way? To better understand the inner workings of our bodies and to trace the origins of many of today’s most common diseases, we have to turn to unexpected sources: worms, flies, and even fish.

In Your Inner Fish, Neil Shubin tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria."

All mainstream science, no magic involved.

Theory. Not proven fact.

[iLex]

BTW, my fair question is still standing...
How did the very first matter appear on its own?
No one? Why not?

I did reply as good as I could, so I just copy/paste...

You're entering the quantum mechanics domain again without knowing anything about it and neither do I so this is rather pointless.

I do know that adding another element of mystery to it, called god, is not helping either cause the same question counts... where does god come from? Who created him?
And I know you would say (cause you did before) that there was nothing before god cause the bible says so.
The bible says so??? ...a second problem added cause we all know the content of that book was handed over mouth to mouth for centuries, then written down and altered several times throughout history.
Interpreted "black" in one century and "white" in the other and therefore the most unreliable source thinkable!!! Not only that... it's full of miracles, pure magic that no sensible person would ever believe if it would apply on this era.

You're using one unprovable thing to prove the other ...every religion does that, nevertheless, it makes no sense.

[S2M]

Ask a Darwinist how the complexities of the human eye evolved and they'll tell you.

"Well it's believed that it started with a collection of light sensitive cells.."

Where did the light sensitive cells come from?

You won't get an answer.

So untrue, of course you will get the answer. Why would it's evolution been any different from the rest. A very good book about how early life-forms evolved to humans is this one...
http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book.html

"Why do we look the way we do? What does the human hand have in common with the wing of a fly? Are breasts, sweat glands, and scales connected in some way? To better understand the inner workings of our bodies and to trace the origins of many of today’s most common diseases, we have to turn to unexpected sources: worms, flies, and even fish.

In Your Inner Fish, Neil Shubin tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria."

All mainstream science, no magic involved.

Theory. Not proven fact.

You are so quick to say that, but fail to realize that God isn't a proven fact either. The Bible could be nothing more than allegory. Imagine believing something not too different than the Wizard of Oz.......

[artist4perry]

Ask a Darwinist how the complexities of the human eye evolved and they'll tell you.

"Well it's believed that it started with a collection of light sensitive cells.."

Where did the light sensitive cells come from?

You won't get an answer.

So untrue, of course you will get the answer. Why would it's evolution been any different from the rest. A very good book about how early life-forms evolved to humans is this one...
http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book.html

"Why do we look the way we do? What does the human hand have in common with the wing of a fly? Are breasts, sweat glands, and scales connected in some way? To better understand the inner workings of our bodies and to trace the origins of many of today’s most common diseases, we have to turn to unexpected sources: worms, flies, and even fish.

In Your Inner Fish, Neil Shubin tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria."

All mainstream science, no magic involved.

Theory. Not proven fact.

You are so quick to say that, but fail to realize that God isn't a proven fact either. The Bible could be nothing more than allegory. Imagine believing something not too different than the Wizard of Oz.......

Just because you cannot see it does not prove it does not exist. Did the milky way exist before scientist could see it? Yes! LOL! Only difference is we both want to believe in something unseen, unproven, but you insinuate I am wrong because you fail to believe what my theory is. Neither can be proven. So I guess your theory is as much the "Wizzard of Oz" as mine.

[artist4perry]

By the way, I loved the "Wizzard of Oz".

[iLex]

Ask a Darwinist how the complexities of the human eye evolved and they'll tell you.

"Well it's believed that it started with a collection of light sensitive cells.."

Where did the light sensitive cells come from?

You won't get an answer.

So untrue, of course you will get the answer. Why would it's evolution been any different from the rest. A very good book about how early life-forms evolved to humans is this one...
http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book.html

"Why do we look the way we do? What does the human hand have in common with the wing of a fly? Are breasts, sweat glands, and scales connected in some way? To better understand the inner workings of our bodies and to trace the origins of many of today’s most common diseases, we have to turn to unexpected sources: worms, flies, and even fish.

In Your Inner Fish, Neil Shubin tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria."

All mainstream science, no magic involved.

Theory. Not proven fact.

If you choose to stay a scientific illiterate, that's your choice. That's one of the reasons why religion is harming us as a species.

[iLex]

Just because you cannot see it does not prove it does not exist. Did the milky way exist before scientist could see it? Yes! LOL!

Did they invent the existence of the milky way before they could see it? NOOO!

[artist4perry]

Ask a Darwinist how the complexities of the human eye evolved and they'll tell you.

"Well it's believed that it started with a collection of light sensitive cells.."

Where did the light sensitive cells come from?

You won't get an answer.

So untrue, of course you will get the answer. Why would it's evolution been any different from the rest. A very good book about how early life-forms evolved to humans is this one...
http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/book.html

"Why do we look the way we do? What does the human hand have in common with the wing of a fly? Are breasts, sweat glands, and scales connected in some way? To better understand the inner workings of our bodies and to trace the origins of many of today’s most common diseases, we have to turn to unexpected sources: worms, flies, and even fish.

In Your Inner Fish, Neil Shubin tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria."

All mainstream science, no magic involved.

Theory. Not proven fact.

If you choose to stay a scientific illiterate, that's your choice. That's one of the reasons why religion is harming us as a species.

You see this is Your problem. Now you are calling me scientificaly illiterate. Funny I have had over 6 1/2 years college education. How much science do you think I know? I said it is a theory, an unproven fact. I did not say all science is false, nor that I do not believe in some science. Nor that I have not studied science! You have insulted my intelegence in order to make your absurd "point". And because I do not believe all theories does not make me harm the "species". Ridiculous! What if the theory is proven wrong? Does that mean by not embracing the theory as fact makes me a harm to my species? I am glad I don't feel the need to insult people to make myself seem superior.

[artist4perry]

Just because you cannot see it does not prove it does not exist. Did the milky way exist before scientist could see it? Yes! LOL!

Did they invent the existence of the milky way before they could see it? NOOO!

But yet it was there. funny.

[Greg]

If you choose to stay a scientific illiterate, that's your choice. That's one of the reasons why religion is harming us as a species.

iLex. I see that you're very devout in your scientific beliefs and if that's your choice, then that's great. It all really comes down to the same argument on both sides, so I'll give it back to you as well. If you're saying we came from fish or from some other "fish-like" or monkey-like organism, then I want you to show me this happening. I don't want a picture of it, drawing, animated, computer-generated version of it, no camera tricks. I want to see the real thing. And don't say it's already happened and you can't produce the proof, because that's a cop out. Don't point me to any stupid websites about what some scientist has dreamed up, don't cut and paste. I want you to show me and the rest of us full-proof evidence of how humans evolved from fish. If you can't do this, then stop with the insulting, demeaning speak. Stop saying everybody else is delusional, stupid, uneducated, etc...blah blah blah! When you results to personal attacks, then you've already voided your argument.

Why don't we just try this. I'll keep my big trap shut about religion, and be happily "clueless" in my beliefs, if you keep your big mouth shut and believe whatever you want to believe. I won't push my beliefs on you if you stop pushing your beliefs on me and everybody else. Deal?

[conversationpc]

If you choose to stay a scientific illiterate, that's your choice. That's one of the reasons why religion is harming us as a species.

Scientific illiterate, delusional, brainwashed, etc. If you can't stay away from the bomb-throwing, I think this discussion has run its course.

[artist4perry]

I personally have nothing more to say to him. For all those who talked about this subject with respect and honor, I thank you. I have enjoyed looking at all different ideas. iLex as a christian I still love you. But you need to learn to treat people with respect. Till then your words carry no honor.

[RedWingFan]

"First, why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion, instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?" - Charles Darwin

Any athiests have an answer for this one. I have an answer!!!

[Don]

Not being condescending or anything, what are your attitudes about extraterrestrial life. I'm not talking about little green men. I'm talking about Lifeforms that are more intelligent than us. The universe is a big place. Are we the top dog or can there be others out there that may dwarf us intellectually.

[iLex]

You see this is Your problem. Now you are calling me scientificaly illiterate. Funny I have had over 6 1/2 years college education. How much science do you think I know? I said it is a theory, an unproven fact. I did not say all science is false, nor that I do not believe in some science. Nor that I have not studied science! You have insulted my intelegence in order to make your absurd "point". And because I do not believe all theories does not make me harm the "species". Ridiculous! What if the theory is proven wrong? Does that mean by not embracing the theory as fact makes me a harm to my species? I am glad I don't feel the need to insult people to make myself seem superior.

And Claiming that evolution is just a theory is very offensive to every scientist working with this knowledge on a daily base, developing cures, preventing diseases, etc.
It's probably the most interesting side of science ever and what do you have to say about it ...just a theory, because it doesn't match with your religious beliefs.

[Duncan]

I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to personal salvation.

----------------
Now playing: Fairport Convention - Dear Landlord
via FoxyTunes

I don't understand what this means. Can you expand on what you mean. No agenda with the question.

[Don]

Maybe this is actually Heaven, we've already died and came from somewhere else. Can anyone prove it's not?

[RedWingFan]

Maybe this is actually Heaven, we've already died and came from somewhere else. Can anyone prove it's not?

Heaven is paradise. Read the papers lately?

[Rick]

Maybe this is actually Heaven, we've already died and came from somewhere else. Can anyone prove it's not?

Heaven is paradise. Read the papers lately?

[iceberg]

Maybe this is actually Heaven, we've already died and came from somewhere else. Can anyone prove it's not?

i always thought hell was *not* being in the presence of God, ergo, this is hell.

then again i can get really strange on this topic cause i let my mind run free at all possibilities.

[Don]

Maybe this is actually Heaven, we've already died and came from somewhere else. Can anyone prove it's not?

Heaven is paradise. Read the papers lately?

Who's paradise? Are you implying cheap women and beer?