The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:14 am

treetopovskaya wrote:reps don't want to take away a womens choice... they want to put restrictions like there should be. way too many abortions are being performed. 1 million each year. do you really think all those are "emergencies".

i read here people saying that if mccain/palin are elected they will overturn roe vs. wade. that is bs. the same thing was said about bush. palin never said she would outlaw abortion... but she believes restrictions should be added. she is right.



While I don't disagree with you about FAR too many abortions being performed, your assertion that Palin simply wants to put "restrictions" on abortion are simply not true! I watched her interview with Charlie Gibson on ABC, and without hesitation, she told Gibson that she'd like to see Roe v. Wade overturned (which is not likely to happen). Hey if you like Palin, more power to you, but don't claim her position is one that isn't even supported by even her own words! Here is another clip of Palin, less than two years ago where she says that she's not even in favor of abortion, in the cases of rape or incest! I think her position is quite clear. I don't know McCain's position on the issue, but I suspect that it's not quite as radical as Palin's position!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-c0zRH1c


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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:31 am

she is speaking for herself... her own beliefs. she is on record saying that for *herself* abortion would not be an option. that *she* would choose life. why can't people who claim to be pro-choice respect that? to add restrictions wouldn't you have to overturn a law? the rep party does not want to outlaw abortion. saying that they do is just bullshit.

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:reps don't want to take away a womens choice... they want to put restrictions like there should be. way too many abortions are being performed. 1 million each year. do you really think all those are "emergencies".

i read here people saying that if mccain/palin are elected they will overturn roe vs. wade. that is bs. the same thing was said about bush. palin never said she would outlaw abortion... but she believes restrictions should be added. she is right.



While I don't disagree with you about FAR too many abortions being performed, your assertion that Palin simply wants to put "restrictions" on abortion are simply not true! I watched her interview with Charlie Gibson on ABC, and without hesitation, she told Gibson that she'd like to see Roe v. Wade overturned (which is not likely to happen). Hey if you like Palin, more power to you, but don't claim her position is one that isn't even supported by even her own words! Here is another clip of Palin, less than two years ago where she says that she's not even in favor of abortion, in the cases of rape or incest! I think her position is quite clear. I don't know McCain's position on the issue, but I suspect that it's not quite as radical as Palin's position!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-c0zRH1c


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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:33 am

it scares me ppl are watching yt instead of getting more informed news.

just saying! }:C)

(yeah i posted yt clips... just trying to prove a point... that there are obama yt clips as well. fair is fair.)
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Postby whirlwind » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:38 am

treetopovskaya wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BnLozS-TnM



I think that some of the other video's at this site are relevant also.

I like the way you think, tree.









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEckWHS ... re=related :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Every time that I check out a youtube that's posted, I get lost watching a few others on the site. I just love this one.
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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:48 am

treetopovskaya wrote:it scares me ppl are watching yt instead of getting more informed news.

just saying! }:C)

(yeah i posted yt clips... just trying to prove a point... that there are obama yt clips as well. fair is fair.)



I can assure you that I'm a news junkie and get my news from a myriad of sources! What the hell does youtube have to do with anything??? Are you suggesting somehow that the words Palin spoke weren't real and somehow altered by youtube?



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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:49 am

treetopovskaya wrote:she is speaking for herself... her own beliefs. she is on record saying that for *herself* abortion would not be an option. that *she* would choose life. why can't people who claim to be pro-choice respect that? to add restrictions wouldn't you have to overturn a law? the rep party does not want to outlaw abortion. saying that they do is just bullshit.



She isn't speaking for herself if she is a heartbeat away from the presidency. The reality is that nobody gives a shit what her opinion is, if she is just an ordinary citizen, with no power to influence landmark court decisions! If you watched her interview on ABC with Gibson, she said, without hesitation that Roe v. Wade should be overturned! There really is no "spin" to be put on that! They were her exact words...not anyone else's! I'm not claiming that is the position of the entire Republican party, but it is clearly her position!


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Postby whirlwind » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:00 am

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:reps don't want to take away a womens choice... they want to put restrictions like there should be. way too many abortions are being performed. 1 million each year. do you really think all those are "emergencies".

i read here people saying that if mccain/palin are elected they will overturn roe vs. wade. that is bs. the same thing was said about bush. palin never said she would outlaw abortion... but she believes restrictions should be added. she is right.



While I don't disagree with you about FAR too many abortions being performed, your assertion that Palin simply wants to put "restrictions" on abortion are simply not true! I watched her interview with Charlie Gibson on ABC, and without hesitation, she told Gibson that she'd like to see Roe v. Wade overturned (which is not likely to happen). Hey if you like Palin, more power to you, but don't claim her position is one that isn't even supported by even her own words! Here is another clip of Palin, less than two years ago where she says that she's not even in favor of abortion, in the cases of rape or incest! I think her position is quite clear. I don't know McCain's position on the issue, but I suspect that it's not quite as radical as Palin's position!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-c0zRH1c


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I watched a program that had a group of people who were handicapped in many different ways and when asked if they wished that their birth would have been terminated, they all stated, in one degree or another that it was not even a consideration. A badly deformed dwarf was a successful lawyer.

The ONLY time I would say that abortion would be warranted is if the mother's life were in danger because she can go on to have other children and even then a lot of mothers will take the risk and think of the child first.

Any women here must know of more than a few abortions that have been for self serving reasons and some of the ones that I know of have left a lasting, ugly result. Two of the women are childless to this day. JMHO

More than a few rapes are within a marriage and that's an ugly truth.
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Postby Jana » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:07 am

McCain's position is pro-life, but favors the choice for abortion in the event of rape or incest, as does Cindy McCain. Cindy said she disagreed with Palin on her stance regarding those two situations.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:07 am

no... what i'm saying is that people are posting a lot of yt clips.

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:it scares me ppl are watching yt instead of getting more informed news.

just saying! }:C)

(yeah i posted yt clips... just trying to prove a point... that there are obama yt clips as well. fair is fair.)



I can assure you that I'm a news junkie and get my news from a myriad of sources! What the hell does youtube have to do with anything??? Are you suggesting somehow that the words Palin spoke weren't real and somehow altered by youtube?



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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:09 am

overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:she is speaking for herself... her own beliefs. she is on record saying that for *herself* abortion would not be an option. that *she* would choose life. why can't people who claim to be pro-choice respect that? to add restrictions wouldn't you have to overturn a law? the rep party does not want to outlaw abortion. saying that they do is just bullshit.



She isn't speaking for herself if she is a heartbeat away from the presidency. The reality is that nobody gives a shit what her opinion is, if she is just an ordinary citizen, with no power to influence landmark court decisions! If you watched her interview on ABC with Gibson, she said, without hesitation that Roe v. Wade should be overturned! There really is no "spin" to be put on that! They were her exact words...not anyone else's! I'm not claiming that is the position of the entire Republican party, but it is clearly her position!


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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:15 am

it may surprise ppl but the prez can't just walk in one day & say "i want everyone in america to wear purple pants every friday" & have that be a law of the land.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:42 am

treetopovskaya wrote:one of the main reasons i'm not voting obama...

for 20+ years he attended a church that preached hatred. that alone scares me. not only did he attend this church but the pastor is his mentor. hmm.

let's talk about that.


Are you one of its 7000+ congregants?
You condemn people's reliance on YouTube, and then in the same breath, you simplify an entire faith based on a few clips of a pastor pulpit-pounding in true fire and brimstone tradition.
After the hate-filled big tent revival meeting that occurred in Minnesota, who are you guys to talk?
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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:50 am

treetopovskaya wrote:overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?




Well, considering that Roe versus Wade is what made abortion legal, I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted. When she was running for Governor of Alaska, she said that she would be in favor of "criminalizing" (her word, not mine) abortion! Honestly, I dont' think abortion is even the issue with Palin. I honestly believe the woman to be incompetent. Even though I believe McCain thought picking her would win him this election, I think he will lose this election, specifically because he chose her as a running mate. I can tell you that if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, he would have my vote! There is no freakin' way that I want this woman ANYWHERE near The Oval Office!


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Postby S2M » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:52 am

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?




Well, considering that Roe versus Wade is what made abortion legal, I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted. When she was running for Governor of Alaska, she said that she would be in favor of "criminalizing" (her word, not mine) abortion! Honestly, I dont' think abortion is even the issue with Palin. I honestly believe the woman to be incompetent. Even though I believe McCain thought picking her would win him this election, I think he will lose this election, specifically because he chose her as a running mate. I can tell you that if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, he would have my vote! There is no freakin' way that I want this woman ANYWHERE near The Oval Office!


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I thought it was the Oral Office.... :lol:
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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:55 am

you stole my joke! }:C)

StocktontoMalone wrote:
Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?




Well, considering that Roe versus Wade is what made abortion legal, I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted. When she was running for Governor of Alaska, she said that she would be in favor of "criminalizing" (her word, not mine) abortion! Honestly, I dont' think abortion is even the issue with Palin. I honestly believe the woman to be incompetent. Even though I believe McCain thought picking her would win him this election, I think he will lose this election, specifically because he chose her as a running mate. I can tell you that if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, he would have my vote! There is no freakin' way that I want this woman ANYWHERE near The Oval Office!


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I thought it was the Oral Office.... :lol:
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Postby S2M » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:56 am

treetopovskaya wrote:you stole my joke! }:C)

StocktontoMalone wrote:
Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?




Well, considering that Roe versus Wade is what made abortion legal, I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted. When she was running for Governor of Alaska, she said that she would be in favor of "criminalizing" (her word, not mine) abortion! Honestly, I dont' think abortion is even the issue with Palin. I honestly believe the woman to be incompetent. Even though I believe McCain thought picking her would win him this election, I think he will lose this election, specifically because he chose her as a running mate. I can tell you that if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, he would have my vote! There is no freakin' way that I want this woman ANYWHERE near The Oval Office!


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I thought it was the Oral Office.... :lol:



I'm a joke stealer, what can I say...... :D
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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:00 am

i was being a tad sarcastic. reps don't want to outlaw abortion... but to change laws don't the existing laws have to be overturned to make new changes? it will still be roe vs wade but with restrictions?

no matter who's in office... abortion will always be legal.

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?




Well, considering that Roe versus Wade is what made abortion legal, I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted. When she was running for Governor of Alaska, she said that she would be in favor of "criminalizing" (her word, not mine) abortion! Honestly, I dont' think abortion is even the issue with Palin. I honestly believe the woman to be incompetent. Even though I believe McCain thought picking her would win him this election, I think he will lose this election, specifically because he chose her as a running mate. I can tell you that if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, he would have my vote! There is no freakin' way that I want this woman ANYWHERE near The Oval Office!


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Postby S2M » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:02 am

It would be great if government held the same rules for religion as it does for abortion....

Not sure when the mass becomes a living person - not sure if there IS a god, or not.

That would be swell.... :lol:
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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:05 am

treetopovskaya wrote:reps don't want to outlaw abortion... but to change laws don't the existing laws have to be overturned to make new changes? it will still be roe vs wade but with restrictions?

no matter who's in office... abortion will always be legal.




I'm not quite sure what part of Palin's comments seem to have you so perplexed. I think when she makes comments like she wants to see Roe v. Wade overturned and she wants to see abortion "criminalized", it's quite clear that she would like to see abortion rendered illegal in this country! I certainly do agree with you that it will never happen, because she'll never be in a position to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who support her view!


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Postby Lula » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:35 am

i don't want to debate abortion again. the next president will be appointing judges to the supreme court. the court is very close to all conservative and to skew it even further makes overturning roe v wade a very real possibility. the president does not have the to power to overturn a court decision, but has the power to nominate judges.

i absolutely believe there are too many abortions taking place and it is a crime, however; to outlaw it is also a crime in my eyes. personal choice to me is just that- personal choice. it is not for me.

as for babies born with disabilities- i'm a teacher, a special education teacher by choice. i think each child has something to offer this world. i also think the government is obligated to support these children with health care because an average income family, let alone a low income family, cannot always afford the expenses involved in caring for a special needs child. now i'm going off topic, sorry.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:38 am

what she would like to see & what she does will be 2 different things. she may think all that & believe all that but still respect peoples right to choose. things need to change tho... that is a fact.

someone i was chatting with brought up that when a pregnant women is killed the killer is charged with 2 counts of murder. do the unborn have rights or not? another friend brought up the fact that her children's school is not allowed to give out asprin without permission from that child's parents. yet a minor can have an abortion without parents being notified.

makes no sense.

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:reps don't want to outlaw abortion... but to change laws don't the existing laws have to be overturned to make new changes? it will still be roe vs wade but with restrictions?

no matter who's in office... abortion will always be legal.




I'm not quite sure what part of Palin's comments seem to have you so perplexed. I think when she makes comments like she wants to see Roe v. Wade overturned and she wants to see abortion "criminalized", it's quite clear that she would like to see abortion rendered illegal in this country! I certainly do agree with you that it will never happen, because she'll never be in a position to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who support her view!


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Postby Rick » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:48 am

Fact Finder wrote:If anyone's interested...

Shocking Video Unearthed, Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs


If any of you guys or gals have stock or 401k's or IRAs' tomorrow might be a bad day.


I moved everything in my 401k into the safest option available just Friday.

It's not a lot, but I sure don't want to lose it.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:07 am

Fact Finder wrote:
... what these stupid socialist have done. :evil:


sigh, unfortunately yes, defeat communism, but the goons come creeping in the back door anyway .... via (of all persons) a Republican secretary of the Treasury.

Where is John Galt :?: :?: :?:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:11 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
... what these stupid socialist have done. :evil:


sigh, unfortunately yes, defeat communism, but the goons come creeping in the back door anyway .... via (of all persons) a Republican secretary of the Treasury.

Where is John Galt :?: :?: :?:


Paulson is a Democrat actually...just like Clinton had a Republican SecDef, Bush has a democrats Secretary of the Treasury.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:14 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
... what these stupid socialist have done. :evil:


sigh, unfortunately yes, defeat communism, but the goons come creeping in the back door anyway .... via (of all persons) a Republican secretary of the Treasury.

Where is John Galt :?: :?: :?:


Paulson is a Democrat actually...just like Clinton had a Republican SecDef, Bush has a democrats Secretary of the Treasury.


actually that true....I should have said Republican appointed Sec of Treasury. I seem to remember howling and moaning when he was appointed for that one reson...anyway still the same Im still going to go lock myself into a room, crank up Rush 2112 and read Ayn Rand books the rest of today.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:09 am

Enigma869 wrote:
Lula wrote:you know john, i posted the article yesterday and no one seems to care, i wonder why? :? :lol:



Yeah...I noticed when I posted the video that my buddy Dave said he hadn't seen, that he had no comment. Interesting. I guess after watching that train wreck of an interview that even Palin supporters can't defend that disaster! I'm sure that Puppet Palin is a nice enough woman. That said, she only belongs in The White House if she's taking a school tour with one of her children, as a visitor!


John from Boston


What are you talking about? I still haven't seen the entire interview. I don't comment on things I haven't seen. I've only seen the clip where she's "attempting" to answer the question about specific examples of McCain's legislative attempts at regulation.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:13 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Are you one of its 7000+ congregants?
You condemn people's reliance on YouTube, and then in the same breath, you simplify an entire faith based on a few clips of a pastor pulpit-pounding in true fire and brimstone tradition.
After the hate-filled big tent revival meeting that occurred in Minnesota, who are you guys to talk?


Woah, there Nellie!!! To compare the Republican Convention (which was every bit as ridiculous as the Democratic convetion) is pretty outlandish. There's NO comparison between that and the purely anti-American hatred that Rev. Wright and his brand of Black Liberation Theology teach. The very heart of that theology is racist and has been ever since it was invented.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:15 am

Enigma869 wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:overturned in what way? to make abortion illegal?




Well, considering that Roe versus Wade is what made abortion legal, I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted. When she was running for Governor of Alaska, she said that she would be in favor of "criminalizing" (her word, not mine) abortion! Honestly, I dont' think abortion is even the issue with Palin. I honestly believe the woman to be incompetent. Even though I believe McCain thought picking her would win him this election, I think he will lose this election, specifically because he chose her as a running mate. I can tell you that if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, he would have my vote! There is no freakin' way that I want this woman ANYWHERE near The Oval Office!


If I'm not mistaken, overturning Roe vs. Wade would simply turn it over to the states but not make it illegal.
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Postby Enigma869 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:37 am

conversationpc wrote:What are you talking about? I still haven't seen the entire interview. I don't comment on things I haven't seen.


Well, here is the clip of her actually attempting to tout her "foreign policy" experience! It's well worth minute and a half listen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwSbPxRZ3CI


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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:42 am

conversationpc wrote:Woah, there Nellie!!! To compare the Republican Convention (which was every bit as ridiculous as the Democratic convetion) is pretty outlandish.


Not even close.
I've got friends who have never cast a vote in their lives due to religious reasons and even they were appalled by what they witnessed at the GOP Convention.
From the psy-ops porn montage of 9-11 to the continual berating of Obama's community service, you guys reveled in no-holds-barred shit slinging.
Same deal as in 2004.

Image

conversationpc wrote:There's NO comparison between that and the purely anti-American hatred that Rev. Wright and his brand of Black Liberation Theology teach. The very heart of that theology is racist and has been ever since it was invented.


Riiiight. And you know this how?
Funny how Romney's religion was a personal matter, but Obama's is fair game.
More selective moralizing from the party of Jack Abramoff.
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