The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[Rhiannon]

I have no clue what is going on

Just go back thru this thread and read my posts.


edit: posts on this financial matter.

Gotcha!

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

and also handing away our freedoms. This is not good.

Exactly, one of the greatest econonmic and political thinkers of the 20th Century, Friedrich Hayek wrote in the Road to Serfdom that once the King owns your house, he can make you do what he wants because hes got something to hold over your. This is exactly what this bailout bill/and the nationalisation of Freddie Mac does - "the king owns your house " and he owns all of your financial instruments. Put the wrong person in charge of the whitehouse, this can be abused. For example, People in Missouri running ads criticising the president ?, dont refute their argument , just have the head of Freddie and Fanny foreclose their house. They'll shut up when home less and hungry..... if you dont think it cant happen in the usa , think again

[grimlocked]

Read this article by Nobel Laureate Joseph E. Stiglitz: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... bush200712

"...When Bush came into office.....

It was a moment ripe for Keynesian economics, a time to prime the pump by spending more money on education, technology, and infrastructure—all of which America desperately needed, and still does, but which the Clinton administration had postponed in its relentless drive to eliminate the deficit. Bill Clinton had left President Bush in an ideal position to pursue such policies. Remember the presidential debates in 2000 between Al Gore and George Bush, and how the two men argued over how to spend America’s anticipated $2.2 trillion budget surplus? The country could well have afforded to ramp up domestic investment in key areas. In fact, doing so would have staved off recession in the short run while spurring growth in the long run.

But the Bush administration had its own ideas. The first major economic initiative pursued by the president was a massive tax cut for the rich, enacted in June of 2001. Those with incomes over a million got a tax cut of $18,000—more than 30 times larger than the cut received by the average American. The inequities were compounded by a second tax cut, in 2003, this one skewed even more heavily toward the rich. Together these tax cuts, when fully implemented and if made permanent, mean that in 2012 the average reduction for an American in the bottom 20 percent will be a scant $45, while those with incomes of more than $1 million will see their tax bills reduced by an average of $162,000.

Inequality is now widening in America, and at a rate not seen in three-quarters of a century. A young male in his 30s today has an income, adjusted for inflation, that is 12 percent less than what his father was making 30 years ago. Some 5.3 million more Americans are living in poverty now than were living in poverty when Bush became president. America’s class structure may not have arrived there yet, but it’s heading in the direction of Brazil’s and Mexico’s..."

[RossValoryRocks]

Read this article by Nobel Laureate Joseph E. Stiglitz: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... bush200712

"...When Bush came into office.....

It was a moment ripe for Keynesian economics, a time to prime the pump by spending more money on education, technology, and infrastructure—all of which America desperately needed, and still does, but which the Clinton administration had postponed in its relentless drive to eliminate the deficit. Bill Clinton had left President Bush in an ideal position to pursue such policies. Remember the presidential debates in 2000 between Al Gore and George Bush, and how the two men argued over how to spend America’s anticipated $2.2 trillion budget surplus? The country could well have afforded to ramp up domestic investment in key areas. In fact, doing so would have staved off recession in the short run while spurring growth in the long run.

But the Bush administration had its own ideas. The first major economic initiative pursued by the president was a massive tax cut for the rich, enacted in June of 2001. Those with incomes over a million got a tax cut of $18,000—more than 30 times larger than the cut received by the average American. The inequities were compounded by a second tax cut, in 2003, this one skewed even more heavily toward the rich. Together these tax cuts, when fully implemented and if made permanent, mean that in 2012 the average reduction for an American in the bottom 20 percent will be a scant $45, while those with incomes of more than $1 million will see their tax bills reduced by an average of $162,000.

Inequality is now widening in America, and at a rate not seen in three-quarters of a century. A young male in his 30s today has an income, adjusted for inflation, that is 12 percent less than what his father was making 30 years ago. Some 5.3 million more Americans are living in poverty now than were living in poverty when Bush became president. America’s class structure may not have arrived there yet, but it’s heading in the direction of Brazil’s and Mexico’s..."

Poltical bullshit...OF COURSE the rich get a larger tax cut in absolute dollars...they paid WAY more in those terms, percentage wise they got the smallest increase.

You libs and no understanding how taxation works just kill me!

I assume the writer would want the person making $18,000/yr to get $18,000 back regardless of which "immorally" rich person they had to fleece it from right?

Simple political bullshit, and Vanity Fair?? Come on...liberal clap-trap is all that magazine is no matter HOW many Nobel Laureates they get to write for it.

[classicstyxfan]

Has everybody taken a few moments to wave goodbye to a sizable portion of their 401(k) yet today ? damn.

whatever the solution, I hope they get it worked out soon....this isnt getting any prettier if some decisive action isnt takensoon.

Senator McCain, you'd better get back to Washington and fix this thing like you said you would ......seems like your visit last week didnt get it done !

[RedWingFan]

Has everybody taken a few moments to wave goodbye to a sizable portion of their 401(k) yet today ? damn.

Yes I did. Right before I called our investment group and INCREASED my percentage of investment!!! I love low prices.

[RossValoryRocks]

Has everybody taken a few moments to wave goodbye to a sizable portion of their 401(k) yet today ? damn.

whatever the solution, I hope they get it worked out soon....this isnt getting any prettier if some decisive action isnt takensoon.

Senator McCain, you'd better get back to Washington and fix this thing like you said you would ......seems like your visit last week didnt get it done !

I moved all my money over to a money fund...3% return (which is ok because I have many years until retirement) and when this thing finally bottoms out...back I go into it...along with an increase percentage. I will make a good chunk of money.

[Lula]

so who here can actually break this all down. i thought the bailout was a bunch of bs and am glad it did not pass.... but what does it really mean? how bad will it really get? how many jobs will be lost, and not the 6-7 figure jobs, but the working stiffs?

[Rick]

I'm starting to miss W already. If nothing else, he's been fun to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBm5ZSWbD14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEbZqvMu2cQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgswKlXEZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFLCOdVKtg0

[Centaure]

This post above is total science-fiction.

[RossValoryRocks]

This post above is total science-fiction.

Then refute it with FACTS and cite your sources. But you can't...because it happens to be well documented that Fact Finder said is the truth. It's in the public record.

[RossValoryRocks]

This post above is total science-fiction.

Put down the bong and slowly step away....relax...it's all good.

The truth shall set you free.

That's not just the bong dude...that is like crack pipe and THEN the bong, followed by drinking the bong water!

[Rick]

This is an interesting data table.

http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

[conversationpc]

This is an interesting data table.

http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

Interesting but does it factor in which party is in control of Congress? I doubt it.

[RossValoryRocks]

This is an interesting data table.

http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

Ahhh yes...eriposte...partisan much?

Except for 12 years in the last 50 every republican president has had a democrat controlled congress.

Congress spends, the President doesn't. The data is skewed out of proportion by the site.

[conversationpc]

This is an interesting data table.

http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

Ahhh yes...eriposte...partisan much?

Except for 12 years in the last 50 every republican president has had a democrat controlled congress.

Congress spends, the President doesn't. The data is skewed out of proportion by the site.

I do think the President still bears much of the responsbility for spending. However, you are correct that who controls Congress has a large and direct bearing on spending.

[Lula]

thanks for the info. i was really asking about the bailout bill not passing and what it all meant. i've done some reading and understand that basically they'll try to pass another version. and didn't deregulation have something to do with all this? come on, you act like it is all the fault of carter and clinton and we all know there are many to blame from both sides.

[RossValoryRocks]

thanks for the info. i was really asking about the bailout bill not passing and what it all meant. i've done some reading and understand that basically they'll try to pass another version. and didn't deregulation have something to do with all this? come on, you act like it is all the fault of carter and clinton and we all know there are many to blame from both sides.

Oh no...it's all the politicians fault. ALL of them...D or R next to the name...two I's too...

They all are ridiculous in their posturing.

DC is so busy pointing fingers at everyone else to make sure no one REALLY looks at what THEY did.

[Lula]

yeah dumb ass politicians that play their games with big money and screw us at the same time. i'm at a loss.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Churchill said: "If not a Liberal at 20 you have no heart. If not a Conservative at 40 you have no brain."

They'll grow up.

Like Mamma Cass and the apocryphal ham sandwich of death, Churchill never said that.
Same deal with Antoinette and "let them eat cake."

[jrnychick]

thanks for the info. i was really asking about the bailout bill not passing and what it all meant. i've done some reading and understand that basically they'll try to pass another version. and didn't deregulation have something to do with all this? come on, you act like it is all the fault of carter and clinton and we all know there are many to blame from both sides.

I absolutely think deregulation had something to do with this. There was a bill that was signed by Clinton (in 1999?) that allowed banks to get into these investment loans. I don't know all of the details--I'll have to read more about it. I was really surprised to hear that Clinton would agree to something like that. I also think both parties are equally to blame for this mess. A good chunk of the blame has to be placed on former fed chairman Alan Greenspan as well. He was really encouraging people to get the ARMs, when rates were at their lowest, then he turned around and raised rates several times. What did he think would happen when all of those loans reset?

[conversationpc]

Churchill said: "If not a Liberal at 20 you have no heart. If not a Conservative at 40 you have no brain."

They'll grow up.

Like Mamma Cass and the apocryphal ham sandwich of death, Churchill never said that.
Same deal with Antoinette and "let them eat cake."

True, apparently...

The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=374518

[RedWingFan]

Churchill said: "If not a Liberal at 20 you have no heart. If not a Conservative at 40 you have no brain."

They'll grow up.

Like Mamma Cass and the apocryphal ham sandwich of death, Churchill never said that.
Same deal with Antoinette and "let them eat cake."

True, apparently...

The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=374518

I betcha Churchill wishes he had said it.

[csiako]

just watched last night's snl opener.... too friggin funny!!

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/ ... en/704042/

I think this one pales in comparison to the real Palin-Couric interview. I found the original interview much funnier.

you mean this one http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4487886n ?

[Rick]

Churchill said: "If not a Liberal at 20 you have no heart. If not a Conservative at 40 you have no brain."

They'll grow up.

Like Mamma Cass and the apocryphal ham sandwich of death, Churchill never said that.
Same deal with Antoinette and "let them eat cake."

True, apparently...

The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=374518

I betcha Churchill wishes he had said it.

I'd believe Churchill's sentiment leaned more toward Liberal and Conservative ideals than Democrat and Republican. I doubt he would advise anyone to join either of these parties, as they are today.

[7 Wishes]

All that Churchill cares about these days is winning those poker games with Nixon, and getting tied up in knots when Wigan Athletic lose in the FA Cup.

[RossValoryRocks]

and getting tied up in knots when Wigan Athletic lose in the FA Cup.

And you don't??? COME ON WA is the bomb!

(I HATE SOCCER!)

[7 Wishes]

I am a soccer addict. If you grow up in Europe, you get the bug. It can't be helped.

Deano, if I recall, is also a soccer maniac.

[Lula]

Deano, if I recall, is also a soccer maniac.

[conversationpc]

Deano, if I recall, is also a soccer maniac.

Yes, soccer does have quite the effect on him, doesn't it?