The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[treetopovskaya]

even if that were true... how can you blame the candidates and the rest of the rep party for what a few whack jobs might yell out? both sides have them.

McCain is kicking ass today in Wisconsin. Kicking ass and NAMING NAMES...Audience is fucking fed up with the economic problem and one member asked McCain to name names and make these people responsible when he is President...

Great.
Did anyone scream "Kill him!" and "Terrorist!" upon mention of Obama, as happened yesterday when Palin played up the Ayers connection?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not cold at all. My reaction to TNC's remarks aren't because Palin is a republican. It's because IT was cold and cruel. Yet, you said nothing. And for the record I have an appt. Tuesday for an MRI for my 20 month old who will probably have to have his foot amputated. I don't like anyone attacking or hurting children. It's also why I abhor abortion. Like I said, consistent!

No child was attacked.
What I said was a politically au courant variation of saying Dave is dumber than a retard.
In this case, the retard had a name.
Big deal.

[The_Noble_Cause]

even if that were true... how can you blame the candidates and the rest of the rep party for what a few whack jobs might yell out? both sides have them.

Why, yes, just looking at the tenor of the Republicans in this thread, it's clear those views are in the minority.

[conversationpc]

I was at dinner with the family tonight when I saw an interview between Lou Dobbs and a guest who were talking about the link between BO and ACORN. The volume was down so I had to read the prompter thingie. It said that the Obama campaign has given ACORN EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS for their voter registration efforts, mostly in swing states.

$800,000... Somebody's got some 'splainin to do.

Don't forget, though, it's only the Republicans that rig elections, you know.

[Enigma869]

Obama will and should be held up to the same standards but it sounds like you are already making an excuse for his failure. If he screws up, which I believe he will and hope he doesn't, I want to hear you criticizing him the same as you have Bush.

Honestly, comparing Bush to whatever guy becomes president is silly, in my opinion. W. didn't inherit the complete fucking disaster he is passing on to the next president. Our country was fairly prosperous when he took office, and that will not be the case when we finally get rid of the most useless president of my lifetime! "Passing" or "failing" is all relative to what the next president is inheriting. In all honesty, given the present state of affairs, I think the next guy will get passing grades, if for no other reason, than by default!


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

Honestly, comparing Bush to whatever guy becomes president is silly, in my opinion. W. didn't inherit the complete fucking disaster he is passing on to the next president. Our country was fairly prosperous when he took office, and that will not be the case when we finally get rid of the most useless president of my lifetime! "Passing" or "failing" is all relative to what the next president is inheriting. In all honesty, given the present state of affairs, I think the next guy will get passing grades, if for no other reason, than by default!

Bush certainly did his part. However, EVERY President AND Congress in the last 50+ years has contributed to the economic problems we are having now. The official debt might ONLY be listed at $10 trillion or whatever the number is that has been circulating, but the real debt, including unfunded liabilities, is FAR FAR higher. The aforementioned Presidents and Congresses have all added to that.

[RedWingFan]

Congresses have all added to that.

And I'd be willing to bet nearly all the Senators in Congress have fattened their pockets beyond belief.

[SteveForever]

what a dufus....

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/offbea ... oments.cnn

[donnaplease]

Obama will and should be held up to the same standards but it sounds like you are already making an excuse for his failure. If he screws up, which I believe he will and hope he doesn't, I want to hear you criticizing him the same as you have Bush.

Honestly, comparing Bush to whatever guy becomes president is silly, in my opinion. W. didn't inherit the complete fucking disaster he is passing on to the next president. Our country was fairly prosperous when he took office, and that will not be the case when we finally get rid of the most useless president of my lifetime! "Passing" or "failing" is all relative to what the next president is inheriting. In all honesty, given the present state of affairs, I think the next guy will get passing grades, if for no other reason, than by default!


John from Boston

John, he was also the victim of the worst terrorist attack on domestic soil, ever!!! There were atypical natural disasters, and 2 wars, and a whole slew of other issues that have come up that play into all that. Even if you take Iraq out of the equation (which is HUGE, I understand that) it is still an enormous load to place on him. I'm not necessarily trying to make excuses for him (even though I'll admit I do still like him) but we do need to take everything into consideration.

Am I better off now that I was 8 years ago? I'd say yes. It's not so much about what a president did or didn't do, though. I'm far from well-off, but I make an above-average wage (I'm currently making about $7 more an hour than I was making in 2000), my job is secure, and my family is happy. I live a very content life. We struggle, just like everyone else does, but I'm not really looking to the government to make that better.

Here's a question for you military minded peeps... Bill Clinton closed military bases during his years in office, correct? There was a naval training center that closed in San Diego when we lived there in the 90's. When we went back to visit in '06, the base was gone and condos were in it's place. Did the closure of those bases also mean that our troop numbers were reduced? Or were they just re-located when the bases closed? Now, if the troop numbers were reduced, how did this impact our ability to participate in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars?

[donnaplease]

BTW... I really don't know WTF I'm talking about. I just like posting to get another look at my avatar!!!

[RedWingFan]

WASH TIMES Friday: Obama secretly tried to sway Iraqi government to ignore Bush deal on keeping troops in Iraq... Developing...


http://www.drudgereport.com/

Scroll up. I already posted it. Where you been?

[fredinator]

I'm curious: how many of the conservatives in this thread/board think Barack Obama is a terrorist?

[SteveForever]

I'm curious: how many of the conservatives in this thread/board think Barack Obama is a terrorist?

start a poll Nancy but I for one DO NOT....

[RedWingFan]

I'm curious: how many of the conservatives in this thread/board think Barack Obama is a terrorist?

I think he is a friend of a terrorist and surrounds himself with people who either hate or dislike this country. Is that good enough?

[iceberg]

I'm curious: how many of the conservatives in this thread/board think Barack Obama is a terrorist?

i think he's more socalist but i also think that's only because while people may not realize it, the "loud" is asking for that.

yes, i'm conservative, but i'm not stupid or sold on a tag.

[fredinator]

No, not good enough. Do you think he himself is or is not a terrorist?

[donnaplease]

I'm curious: how many of the conservatives in this thread/board think Barack Obama is a terrorist?

I don't think anyone thinks HE is a terrorist. Personally, I question his character and judgement for his association with a known domestic terrorist, and then for lying about it. I think he lacks the intestinal fortitude to be the next president of the United States. Of course, my opinion doesn't matter. I only get one vote, unlike those folks that ACORN registered, who are able to vote as many times as they'd like. Talk about cancelling out a vote...

It's pathetic and sad.

[RedWingFan]

No, not good enough. Do you think he himself is or is not a terrorist?

Okay, then no I don't think he's a terrorist.
If you're going wacko hunting I'm sure you'll get more yes' if you ask libs if Bush is a terrorist.

[scarygirl]

A terrorist to freeedom and personal liberty absolutely.

[fredinator]

I heard that at one of Palin's rallies someone shouted, "kill him" among other things. Why doesn't John McCain put a stop to this kind of thing? I know you all are going to say that she didn't hear that or some such excuse. There is no excuse for this kind of mob mentality rally--it's un-American. Downright ignorant, too.

[donnaplease]

I heard that at one of Palin's rallies someone shouted, "kill him" among other things. Why doesn't John McCain put a stop to this kind of thing? I know you all are going to say that she didn't hear that or some such excuse. There is no excuse for this kind of mob mentality rally--it's un-American. Downright ignorant, too.

What has that got to do with your question about BO?

[fredinator]

Sarah Palin has plenty of skeletons in her closet and I think some are going to be taken out tomorrow from what I heard (troopergate) Salon is reporting that she has some far right "mentors" and that "Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin’s political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. “Her door was open,” says Chryson — and still is." These extremists HATE the U.S. and want Alaska to secede. The things this group was saying was so bad that I put it out of my mind and can't remember right now, lol.

I don't think she had any compunction about hinting that Barack Hussein Obama is a terrorist.

[Monker]

I'm curious: how many of the conservatives in this thread/board think Barack Obama is a terrorist?

I don't think anyone thinks HE is a terrorist. Personally, I question his character and judgement for his association with a known domestic terrorist, and then for lying about it. I think he lacks the intestinal fortitude to be the next president of the United States. Of course, my opinion doesn't matter. I only get one vote, unlike those folks that ACORN registered, who are able to vote as many times as they'd like. Talk about cancelling out a vote...

It's pathetic and sad.

What is pathetic and sad is Republicans actually believe voters care about this issue more then the economic strife that is going on all around them. The people running McCain's campaign are idiots, and so is anybody who believes any of this is going to help McCain.

McCain can't win by running the same losing campaign as Clinton.

[Enigma869]

John, he was also the victim of the worst terrorist attack on domestic soil, ever!!!

I think we're all quite cognizant of the events of 9/11. That doesn't mean I believe that W. has been remotely competent or made the correct decisions, following the horrible disaster that happened on his watch (and no, I don't blame him for the event happening). I simply think his decision to invade a country that even he admitted had nothing to do with the attacks, wasn't the most prudent decision to make!

I'm not necessarily trying to make excuses for him (even though I'll admit I do still like him)

You're free to "like" whomever you choose to like. It doesn't change the fact that I think the guy is a complete jackass, and I cannot wait until he is reduced to a black mark in the history of presidential politics.

Am I better off now that I was 8 years ago? I'd say yes.

And you'd be in the minority! With all due respect, the country doesn't rise and fall on the fortunes of you, or any one individual. Not to sound callous, but a guy who lost his job and house doesn't give a rat's ass that you're in a better place now, than you were 8 years ago. Also, the larger issue here isn't whether or not you're better off...The real question is one of whether or not the country is better off now than it was 8 years ago. In my opinion, the answer is an emphatic "FUCK NO"!

Also, let us not forget that the stock market is down 35% in one year. In spite of gas prices going down recently, the average price of gas in the country is still over $3.00 a gallon. For the record, a gallon of gasoline was $1.46 a gallon when W. took office! Home heating oil is about $3.50 a gallon. General Motors' stock is at a level not seen since 1950. Three of the top 5 investment banks are no longer in business, and some of them actually survived "The Great Depression". Unemployment is up, and the cost of EVERYTHING is WAY up! We are presently living through the worst housing crisis in the history of our country. Anyone who truly believes that our country is better off now than it was 8 years ago is simply not being honest, or completely blind!

I make an above-average wage (I'm currently making about $7 more an hour than I was making in 2000), my job is secure, and my family is happy.

Again, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the health of our nation. Just because you're making "$7 more an hour" doesn't make all of the economic conditions that are happening, improve! My salary has increased, exponentially, over the past 10 years, but I certainly don't attribute that to the president. It's more of a big picture view of things, and the overall economy.

I'm not really looking to the government to make that better.

Contrary to what so many Republicans suggest, I don't believe those who lean the other way are looking for any handhouts. Having said that, this notion that it's not the government's job to make our economy better is flat out RIDICULOUS! Let me ask you a question...If it's truly not the job of government to mold and shape sound fiscal policy, then why the hell are we electing these incompetent fucks to represent the citizens of this country?


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

.
I'm sure you'll get more yes' if you ask libs if Bush is a terrorist.

I certainly have never thought of W. as a terrorist! I simply think he's a jackass!


John from Boston

[Monker]

I heard that at one of Palin's rallies someone shouted, "kill him" among other things. Why doesn't John McCain put a stop to this kind of thing? I know you all are going to say that she didn't hear that or some such excuse. There is no excuse for this kind of mob mentality rally--it's un-American. Downright ignorant, too.

Why does this suprise you? They are disllusioned that they are losing and faced with four years of a VERY liberal Presidency.

They only have themselves to blame. They nominated Bush in 2000. They rallied to him in 2004. Bush took a neo-conservative approach to the world, and all but ignored the US. His presidency destroyed the Republican party. In fact, I think it's the Rovian advice for McCain's campaign that is causing him to lose. This 'angry mob' should look at what there elected leadership did the past eight years and be angry at themselves for making such a STUPID mistake.

[fredinator]

I hope it has destroyed that "part" of the Republican party that needed to be destroyed. There are still some pretty decent Republicans in Congress, not many, but some. Maybe they can rebuild a better one out of the mess that Rove, Cheney, Bush, Gingrich, etc., etc. made.

[Monker]

I hope it has destroyed that "part" of the Republican party that needed to be destroyed. There are still some pretty decent Republicans in Congress, not many, but some. Maybe they can rebuild a better one out of the mess that Rove, Cheney, Bush, Gingrich, etc., etc. made.

I think the Republicans are going to find themselves in the same situation Democrats found themselves in as far back as Carter. They no longer have a winning philosophy. I think the far right is going to have a fight for control with the moderates. McCain had to appease the far right to even get his own party's support. He nominated Palin not to expand his base and win some independents and democrats, but to unite his base so he even had a chance at winning.

That is the problem - Bush has completely killed the neo-conservative philosophy as winning philosophy in a general election. But, right now, you can't win the Republican nomination without their support. The end result is the Republicans can't win a national election.

They need to change their strategy towards true conservatism: spending less - including VERY costly wars, ballancing budgets, downsizing government, etc. Those topics mean something to people. The Republicans need to fully embrace that and stop the divisive bullshit of abortion, flag burning, and using patriotism as a weapon against the other party. That is all meaningless, irrelevant, fluff.

The problem is there are so many Republicans who have become accustomed to Rovian politics...it's not going to be something Republicans want to change.

[fredinator]

You may be right, I guess. Seems like these tactics go all the way back to Nixon, even that horrible guy from the 50's who wanted everyone blacklisted as "Commies." I can't believe I have forgotten his name... Joe something, right?

[fredinator]

Do you remember how the Republicans absolutely humiliated one of the nicest guys in politics in the 70s because he cried a little on national TV? Edmund Muskie, that was his name. They ruined his career over that. Then they went after Thomas Eagleton and destroyed him because he had depression and got some electric shock treatments. I remember how sad it was for these 2 guys. Good people, good politicians. Muskie was such a good man.