The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:20 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:For you people to complain about voter fraud is hysterical. Take your beating like a man dammit.


Ummm...Your side has been crying voter fraud like a crapload of parrots for the past eight years. This time, there is actual evidence of it on the Democratic side.


Don't bother Dave...Dean for all his good qualities doesn't want to hear the truth about anything political, it's his way or no way. Though in person I have gotten him to admit a few things that he will never own up to here.



I'm still waiting for you to come up to N.E. and show us dumb folk a thing or two about politics...... :lol:


You are another NE person? God. Are one of those Brady worshipping dunderheads??? ;) :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:34 am

DarrenUK wrote:
Gunbot wrote:This was St. Johns Rebuttal the last time this was posted. I emailed it all over my office.

The U.S.A.'s response:

1) If Alcoa is ok with "aluminum" so am I.

2) Extra letters are such a nuisance. You guys skip deodorant...we skip letters. Deal with it.

3) I'll put Ken Jennings up against your finest scholar any day of the week. And the anthem should be renamed God Bathe The Queen.

4) The fuck it won't!!!

5) Here ya go, asshole: "Not surprisingly to many observers, the violent crime rate in Great Britain has risen dramatically and steadily since gun bans have been instituted. That's a trend seen wherever strict gun control laws have been implemented. And that's the part of the story British officials have tried to keep under wraps."

6) See number 5.

7) Our cars are fine. We like something bigger than a fucking Fiat or Volkswagon.

8) I've learned all I need to about "the British sense of humor" from Benny Hill reruns...not impressed. You try implementing the metric system and you'll find a yard stick up your ass.

9) $8 a gallon? No thanks, we'll manage just fine as is. "Petrol"...lol.

10) Try telling Bob and his afterwork union bar buddies they can no longer eat "potato chips." Let me know how that goes.

11) If I wanted something "bitter" I'd lick the queen's twat. Plus, I really dig the Bud Light commercials during the Super Bowl!!

12) Minus Sean Connery you haven't had an actor worth a fuck since Paul Revere.

13) You can keep soccer and we'll keep football. When soccer produces an athlete like Bo Jackson, Jim Brown or Barry Sanders give me a ring. As for rugby, it's played in the U.S. by snobby, rich, college fags. Real men play football. PS Gladiators and Vikings wore "body armor" too. I'd like to see you call them "nancies."

14) Baseball is the greatest sport on the planet. Sorry it's a little more complex than kicking a ball around and requires the use of all of your limbs. No thanks as far as cricket goes. You gave us golf and that was gay enough.

15) Right after you tell us who Jack The Ripper was.

16) Remember what happened last time you fuckers tried that shit?

17) "Daily Tea Time?" You can't be serious. We flock to Hooters and Buffalo Wild Wings and have wings and beer. That's not going to change, either.

God Bless America


I like the actor comeback regarding no decent actor since Paul Revere .......Anthony Hopkins ?, Richard Burton ?, not in the same league as Adam Sandler and Larry The Cable Guy but you must admit they were good.... and as for comedy is concerned you must of seen Little Britain and The Office ( Original one not the remake) they were great .... I know the Geico Cavemen were funnier but hey give us some credit here. Baseball greatest sport in the world ..... ok whatever but you have to name it the American Series not the World series and to call the Super Bowl Champions World Champions just does not hack it. .... As for beer I like Sam Adams and maybe now Budweiser has been bought out by us Europeans they might brew it so you do not need 24 bottles of it to get drunk. not sure about the scholar one but here is a list of ours

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:B ... l_scholars

Our cars are quite good too, Rolls Royce and Aston Martin were very popular. Gas prices suck in England but we dont have to pay a $50,000 co-pay to have a heart bypass operation so we have to make the money somewhere.

Gun crime see here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

Good luck licking the Queens twat ......... probably taste better than a big mac

Jack The Ripper was as far as the experts say was American .... see here

Francis Tumblety
"Dr" Francis Tumblety (c. 1830-1903)

Seemingly uneducated or self-educated Irish-American raised from an infant in Rochester, New York, where he ostensibly trained as a homeopathic physician at Hahneman Hospital (now Highland Hospital). He earned a small fortune posing as a quack "Indian Herb" doctor throughout the United States and Canada and occasionally travelling across Europe as well.[1] He was commonly perceived as a misogynist and was connected to the deaths of some of his patients and charged by the authorities in Canada but skipped the country. It is uncertain if these deaths were deliberate or not. He was also charged with supplying herbs to procure an illegal abortion. At times he used the alias "J.H. Blackburn". He gained a reputation for his eccentric, ostentatious clothes, which were frequently of a military nature. In 1864 he was operative in Brooklyn, New York, where his assistant was David E. Herold, later hanged as an accomplice in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. Tumblety was arrested on 6 May 1865 in St. Louis, Missouri, and incarcerated in the Old Capitol Prison, Washington, for complicity in the Lincoln assassination, but released upon the plea of mistaken identity.[6]

Tumblety was in England in 1888 and had visited the country on other occasions; during one such earlier trip he became closely acquainted with Victorian writer Thomas Henry Hall Caine, with whom it was suggested he had an affair and from whom he tried to borrow money as his finances had become precarious. He claimed to have treated many famous English patients, including Charles Dickens, for a variety of illnesses. He was arrested on 7 November 1888, on charges of "gross indecency", apparently for engaging in homosexuality. Awaiting trial, he instead fled the country for France on 24 November 1888, and thence to the United States.[7]. It has been suggested that he was released on police bail before the final canonical murder of Mary Jane Kelly (on 9 November). Notorious in the United States for his scams, including selling forged Union military discharge papers during the American Civil War and impersonating an army officer, news of his arrest led some to suggest he was the Ripper.

After the initial interest in Tumblety in 1888, he was mentioned as having been a Ripper suspect by former Detective Chief Inspector John George Littlechild of the Metropolitan Police in a letter to journalist and author, George R. Sims dated 23 September 1913.[1] Claims that Scotland Yard sent an officer to the United States in 1888 to try to bring Tumblety back in connection with the crimes have been disputed by recent research, although there are anecdotal American newspaper reports to suggest that this was the case.
He died in a St Louis hospital in 1903, possibly of syphilis, and is buried in Rochester, New York.


Hooters the place where dirty old men sit oogling 18 year olds whilst chewing a wing and burping after their 8th beer ....what a great place.

Have a nice day y'all


This is a great response, Darren. Made for good reading. Well done. 8) I will respond later. :wink:
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Postby DarrenUK » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:38 am

Saint John wrote:
DarrenUK wrote:
Gunbot wrote:This was St. Johns Rebuttal the last time this was posted. I emailed it all over my office.

The U.S.A.'s response:

1) If Alcoa is ok with "aluminum" so am I.

2) Extra letters are such a nuisance. You guys skip deodorant...we skip letters. Deal with it.

3) I'll put Ken Jennings up against your finest scholar any day of the week. And the anthem should be renamed God Bathe The Queen.

4) The fuck it won't!!!

5) Here ya go, asshole: "Not surprisingly to many observers, the violent crime rate in Great Britain has risen dramatically and steadily since gun bans have been instituted. That's a trend seen wherever strict gun control laws have been implemented. And that's the part of the story British officials have tried to keep under wraps."

6) See number 5.

7) Our cars are fine. We like something bigger than a fucking Fiat or Volkswagon.

8) I've learned all I need to about "the British sense of humor" from Benny Hill reruns...not impressed. You try implementing the metric system and you'll find a yard stick up your ass.

9) $8 a gallon? No thanks, we'll manage just fine as is. "Petrol"...lol.

10) Try telling Bob and his afterwork union bar buddies they can no longer eat "potato chips." Let me know how that goes.

11) If I wanted something "bitter" I'd lick the queen's twat. Plus, I really dig the Bud Light commercials during the Super Bowl!!

12) Minus Sean Connery you haven't had an actor worth a fuck since Paul Revere.

13) You can keep soccer and we'll keep football. When soccer produces an athlete like Bo Jackson, Jim Brown or Barry Sanders give me a ring. As for rugby, it's played in the U.S. by snobby, rich, college fags. Real men play football. PS Gladiators and Vikings wore "body armor" too. I'd like to see you call them "nancies."

14) Baseball is the greatest sport on the planet. Sorry it's a little more complex than kicking a ball around and requires the use of all of your limbs. No thanks as far as cricket goes. You gave us golf and that was gay enough.

15) Right after you tell us who Jack The Ripper was.

16) Remember what happened last time you fuckers tried that shit?

17) "Daily Tea Time?" You can't be serious. We flock to Hooters and Buffalo Wild Wings and have wings and beer. That's not going to change, either.

God Bless America


I like the actor comeback regarding no decent actor since Paul Revere .......Anthony Hopkins ?, Richard Burton ?, not in the same league as Adam Sandler and Larry The Cable Guy but you must admit they were good.... and as for comedy is concerned you must of seen Little Britain and The Office ( Original one not the remake) they were great .... I know the Geico Cavemen were funnier but hey give us some credit here. Baseball greatest sport in the world ..... ok whatever but you have to name it the American Series not the World series and to call the Super Bowl Champions World Champions just does not hack it. .... As for beer I like Sam Adams and maybe now Budweiser has been bought out by us Europeans they might brew it so you do not need 24 bottles of it to get drunk. not sure about the scholar one but here is a list of ours

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:B ... l_scholars

Our cars are quite good too, Rolls Royce and Aston Martin were very popular. Gas prices suck in England but we dont have to pay a $50,000 co-pay to have a heart bypass operation so we have to make the money somewhere.

Gun crime see here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

Good luck licking the Queens twat ......... probably taste better than a big mac

Jack The Ripper was as far as the experts say was American .... see here

Francis Tumblety
"Dr" Francis Tumblety (c. 1830-1903)

Seemingly uneducated or self-educated Irish-American raised from an infant in Rochester, New York, where he ostensibly trained as a homeopathic physician at Hahneman Hospital (now Highland Hospital). He earned a small fortune posing as a quack "Indian Herb" doctor throughout the United States and Canada and occasionally travelling across Europe as well.[1] He was commonly perceived as a misogynist and was connected to the deaths of some of his patients and charged by the authorities in Canada but skipped the country. It is uncertain if these deaths were deliberate or not. He was also charged with supplying herbs to procure an illegal abortion. At times he used the alias "J.H. Blackburn". He gained a reputation for his eccentric, ostentatious clothes, which were frequently of a military nature. In 1864 he was operative in Brooklyn, New York, where his assistant was David E. Herold, later hanged as an accomplice in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. Tumblety was arrested on 6 May 1865 in St. Louis, Missouri, and incarcerated in the Old Capitol Prison, Washington, for complicity in the Lincoln assassination, but released upon the plea of mistaken identity.[6]

Tumblety was in England in 1888 and had visited the country on other occasions; during one such earlier trip he became closely acquainted with Victorian writer Thomas Henry Hall Caine, with whom it was suggested he had an affair and from whom he tried to borrow money as his finances had become precarious. He claimed to have treated many famous English patients, including Charles Dickens, for a variety of illnesses. He was arrested on 7 November 1888, on charges of "gross indecency", apparently for engaging in homosexuality. Awaiting trial, he instead fled the country for France on 24 November 1888, and thence to the United States.[7]. It has been suggested that he was released on police bail before the final canonical murder of Mary Jane Kelly (on 9 November). Notorious in the United States for his scams, including selling forged Union military discharge papers during the American Civil War and impersonating an army officer, news of his arrest led some to suggest he was the Ripper.

After the initial interest in Tumblety in 1888, he was mentioned as having been a Ripper suspect by former Detective Chief Inspector John George Littlechild of the Metropolitan Police in a letter to journalist and author, George R. Sims dated 23 September 1913.[1] Claims that Scotland Yard sent an officer to the United States in 1888 to try to bring Tumblety back in connection with the crimes have been disputed by recent research, although there are anecdotal American newspaper reports to suggest that this was the case.
He died in a St Louis hospital in 1903, possibly of syphilis, and is buried in Rochester, New York.


Hooters the place where dirty old men sit oogling 18 year olds whilst chewing a wing and burping after their 8th beer ....what a great place.

Have a nice day y'all


This is a great response, Darren. Made for good reading. Well done. 8) I will respond later. :wink:



I like a bit of fun ......... love America but we need some fun as life would be dull without it ..........

OBAMA/BIDEN 08
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:14 am

Saint John wrote:But I guess they had a certain comfort level when they bombed our embassies, killed and dragged our soldiers through the streets and bombed the WTC the first time and we did nothing!!!


I know Conservatives by nature don't trust the mainstream media, but what makes you think an anonymous chain email is any more reliable?
What you said above is bullshit.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.asp
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Postby S2M » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:17 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:For you people to complain about voter fraud is hysterical. Take your beating like a man dammit.


Ummm...Your side has been crying voter fraud like a crapload of parrots for the past eight years. This time, there is actual evidence of it on the Democratic side.


Don't bother Dave...Dean for all his good qualities doesn't want to hear the truth about anything political, it's his way or no way. Though in person I have gotten him to admit a few things that he will never own up to here.



I'm still waiting for you to come up to N.E. and show us dumb folk a thing or two about politics...... :lol:


You are another NE person? God. Are one of those Brady worshipping dunderheads??? ;) :lol:


Brady? I'm a life-long (since '89) Lions fan.....Was a Giants fan sinice '79 (guess why), brother was a Raider fan( Blech!).... :lol:
Tom Brady IS the G.O.A.T.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:54 am

Lula wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Jimmy Carter


Jimmy Carter> Bush 43

:lol: Carter handled that Iran situation brilliantly didn't he.
Home heating oil cost too much? Put on a sweater and sleep under an extra blanket. :lol: What a dope. I can see why you're such a big fan. :lol:
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:57 am

conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:I am not 7 wishes. I don't lose.


Image

Dude hasn't been as active since Stu correctly called him out on plagiarizing stuff. I think the dude's shook up. He'll be back, just waiting for all of us to forget. :D
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:24 am

DarrenUK wrote:Our cars are quite good too, Rolls Royce and Aston Martin were very popular. Gas prices suck in England but we dont have to pay a $50,000 co-pay to have a heart bypass operation so we have to make the money somewhere.


Love the Rolls...and the Aston Martin....but if you need a bypass in England (or Canada) you probably will die before you can get care. All the wealthy Canadians come here for medical care, so do many UKers.

Socialized medicine is just no good.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:25 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:Brady? I'm a life-long (since '89) Lions fan.....Was a Giants fan sinice '79 (guess why), brother was a Raider fan( Blech!).... :lol:


THANK GOD! Poor soul...rooting for the lions is like me rooting for the Pirates...sure you do it...but it still leaves you feeling dirty.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:15 am

Good on McCain for renouncing this shit.
Now if only he purged all Rovian elements from his campaign, he may still have a shot at winning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YIq5Q15L1o
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Postby Enigma869 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:31 am

StocktontoMalone wrote: I'm a life-long (since '89) Lions fan


Why??? What the fuck have the Lions ever done, aside from completely embarrass themselves? Shit, they couldn't even win with Barry Sanders! Also, how do you grow up in New England and be a Lions fan? How does that even happen? Was it all the Thanksgiving Day games that captivated you? One final thing..."life-long" and 1989 in the same sentence make me feel REALLY fucking old :shock: :shock: :shock:


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Postby fredinator » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:35 am

They're reporting right now that Palin I guess broke the law as governor when she fired the police commissioner.
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Postby fredinator » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:36 am

I would almost bet that she will resign from the campaign.
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Postby Playitloudforme » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:40 am

I usually steer clear of political threads. I don't like anyone telling me what to think or vote for, and I like to respect others as well. But... I needed to bring this up.

CNN posted an article and a picture entitled "New York County lists "Barack OSAMA" on ballot. Ok....whatever, right? Typo. Went through 3 rounds of proof-readers no one caught it. Whatever, right?

Here's the article. TAKE A GOOD LONG LOOK AT THE PICTURE, BOTTOM LEFT CORNER.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ck-osama'/









Independent Party.. JOHN MCCAIN?

WTF???

How is it that Mr. McCain is able to run on TWO PARTIES??? The independent slot is for Ralph Nader, who turned down running for the Green Party to run as an independent.

So... not just the Osama typo... but the Independent Party too?

And CNN missed that. Posted the picture, but missed that. I've written to CNN and to the NY county in question. I've asked... how is this possible??
This seems to be more than just an oopsie. Ballot tampering? Really unintelligent typesetters along with a completely incompetent proof-reading staff? Whatever it is it's F'ed up.
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Postby fredinator » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:46 am

Here is what they are reporting re: Palin:

Alaska panel finds Palin abused power in firing
MATT APUZZO
Originally published 08:24 p.m., October 10, 2008, updated 08:06 p.m., October 10, 2008

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ANCHORAGE, ALASKA (AP) - A legislative committee investigating Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has found she unlawfully abused her authority in firing the state's public safety commissioner. The investigative report concludes that a family grudge wasn't the sole reason for firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan but says it likely was a contributing factor.

The Republican vice presidential nominee has been accused of firing a commissioner to settle a family dispute. Palin supporters have called the investigation politically motivated.

Monegan says he was dismissed as retribution for resisting pressure to fire a state trooper involved in a bitter divorce with the governor's sister. Palin says Monegan was fired as part of a legitimate budget dispute.

This is a huge CF for McCain...
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Postby Don » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:48 am

fredinator wrote:They're reporting right now that Palin I guess broke the law as governor when she fired the police commissioner.


They're not saying she broke the law but the family feud was a contributing factor with other things to the termination. Also her husband may have meddled where he shouldn't have and some medical records got released that shouldn't have. McCain's own Party is pissed about his new move to buy back mortgages so just a bad week in general for the Republicans. I don't think voter fraud, Ayers or anything else that comes up is going to be enough now for the GOP.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:53 am

McCain is done.
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Postby S2M » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:53 am

Enigma869 wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote: I'm a life-long (since '89) Lions fan


Why??? What the fuck have the Lions ever done, aside from completely embarrass themselves? Shit, they couldn't even win with Barry Sanders! Also, how do you grow up in New England and be a Lions fan? How does that even happen? Was it all the Thanksgiving Day games that captivated you? One final thing..."life-long" and 1989 in the same sentence make me feel REALLY fucking old :shock: :shock: :shock:


John from Boston


40 in January.....Celtics/Sox fan before footbal.....I'm a johnny come lately to football. Wel, at least to the Lions.
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Postby Enigma869 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:22 am

RedWingFan wrote: :lol: Carter handled that Iran situation brilliantly didn't he.
Home heating oil cost too much? Put on a sweater and sleep under an extra blanket. :lol: What a dope. I can see why you're such a big fan. :lol:



Someone defending Jimmy Carter's presidency is every bit as moronic as someone defending that jackass W's presidency!


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Postby Enigma869 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:30 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:40 in January.....Celtics/Sox fan before footbal.....I'm a johnny come lately to football. Wel, at least to the Lions.


Okay, well thanks for at least salvaging my youth :lol: I just turned 38 two days ago, so I'm not even quite that old :shock: On another note, how the hell does a good New England boy become a Detroit Lions fan? I've lived in New England my entire life (with the exeption of 13 dreadful months somewhere else), and I've never met one single Lions fan! I've been watching football since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, and the one constant is that the Lions have always sucked. Sure, when they had Herman Moore, Johnnie Morton, Barry Sanders, and the immortal Scott Mitchell, I think they got close to .500, but they still SUCKED!


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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:33 am

Enigma869 wrote:
RedWingFan wrote: :lol: Carter handled that Iran situation brilliantly didn't he.
Home heating oil cost too much? Put on a sweater and sleep under an extra blanket. :lol: What a dope. I can see why you're such a big fan. :lol:



Someone defending Jimmy Carter's presidency is every bit as moronic as someone defending that jackass W's presidency!


John from Boston


20 years from now if Iraq is a successful democracy, W's presidency will go down in history as one of the best.
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Postby Enigma869 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:35 am

fredinator wrote:Here is what they are reporting re: Palin:

Alaska panel finds Palin abused power in firing

This is a huge CF for McCain...


I honestly don't believe this story is much of an issue, in terms of the campaign. McCain lost this election as soon as he paraded that dope in front of TV cameras, and this whole "troopergate" story isn't going to matter one iota, in an election that was lost 5 weeks ago! I honestly believe that John McCain is a decent guy. Hell, he's the only one of the four clowns in this election who has NEVER, EVER, EVER asked for a single earmark, in his entire political career, and I respect the hell out of the guy for that. I just don't understand his selection of Puppet Palin, at all. She was a complete unknown to most of the country, and she honestly seems like she doesn't have a freakin' clue what is going on. Because of that choice, McCain absolutely deserves to lose this election, as he will! Here is the entire Puppet Palin "Breaking News" story from cnn.com.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/ ... index.html


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Postby Enigma869 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:43 am

RedWingFan wrote:20 years from now if Iraq is a successful democracy, W's presidency will go down in history as one of the best.


Put down the fucking crack pipe! I don't care if Iraq becomes the most powerful democracy in the world. It still isn't going to change the abortion of a presidency that W. has had. The problem with W. supporters is that you all share his complete obsession with Iraq, and lose sight of the issues that people actually give a shit about! Bush has presided over the worst economy our country has seen in almost 100 years. That alone won't EVER make him "one of the best". I am not the most astute presidential historian, but I have listened to people who actually are presidential historians on this topic. These guys have forgotten more about presidential politics than most people will ever know, and they have universally said that W. will forever be viewed as one of the worst presidents this country has ever had, and that was long before every business in our country started going bankrupt! You do realize that this jackass has the lowest "approval ratings", EVER recorded, right? I will NEVER understand people defending this bumbling moron! One more example of partisan politics at its worst! Just because a guy has a "R" after his name, doesn't mean he's remotely competent, and W. has been proving that for 8 long years!


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Postby treetopovskaya » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:44 am

Lula wrote:

typical dem/lib mentality at work here... and out in the real world. not wanting to take the blame... take responsibility... make themselves or others accountable for their behavior/actions.


You should really take a close gander of the republican establishment of the last 8 years. Talking about NOT taking responsibility. There are bad apples on BOTH sides, but by anyone's math, the GOP wins hands down in corruption and the neglect of responsibility. Ask Scooter Libby, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and George Bush what "responsibility" really entails. Ask Valerie Plame how her career is going. It was taken fromn her by a bunch of asshole thieving sons of bitches. They will tell you, pardon, pay fine, stay out of jail, move on."



my comment was for us real folks not the gov. if we all took care of our own poop we would be better off. i used to be a bleeding heart lib... it gets you nowhere... people need tough love. no more coddling. this is why we are where we are today with the economy. too many people are getting a free ride & it's killing us.

Lula wrote:
i'm not a religious person but i am finding myself praying very hard for mccain. he's a good man... not perfect... but he has our best interest at heart.


Correction..used to be a good man. He threw that honor away with his endless smear and lying. Fuck him.


nah... he's still a good man.

geez... just how much money is jobama spending on his campaign? he sure loves to SPEND! it prolly cost a lot bussing people in... feeding them... getting them registered & then having them vote... hmm... thank you acorn!! not to mention he's spending $900,000+ for a 30 minute tv ad that will air on cbs (c-bs... perfect!!) the week of election. the other night while channel surfing came across "obama tv"... wt?

at this rate he's going to BUY the election... or steal it.

obama lies... he lied about mccain's stance on illegal immigration. he is lying about his ties to certain people. i don't think obama is a terrorist but it shows he doesn't have the best judgment... & if elected he'll be in charge of appointing people to very powerful positions.

i am told that on hispanic radio people are being told over & over to vote obama... because he is a minority... "like us!" that is not why you vote for someone. i wonder how much money obama is giving to these stations. }:C\


Lula wrote:PS- I and Lula still like you very much and hope you aren't taking this personal Wendy. It's just stupid politics. Now, if only your hockey team could win a a game :wink:



i like you guys too. }:C)) i try not to take things too personal... that's why i try to stay out of this thread. mostly my hostility stems from work... i don't even have to say a word just listening to people yak... sometimes it gets to be too much & i have to say something... because i don't see things exactly like they do i'm labeled a rep & treated like i must be some sort of dummy. i'm in the middle... but i think i lean to the right. i just see that coddling hasn't worked... it doesn't work. we need to stop it... hold people responsible for themselves.

i'm really surprised people at my work aren't more floored when i speak politics (and believe me i don't say much... i don't like talking politics or religion... i only say something when someone is giving out false info... hey... i even spoke up ONCE for jobama!). i'm a freakin veg head for pete's sake! i wear vegan shoes!!

this is hopefully my last post in this thread... just not worth it. i like you people... most of you. }:CPP i don't like arguing. }:C)

btw... i do care if a offend.
Last edited by treetopovskaya on Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:54 am

Enigma869 wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:20 years from now if Iraq is a successful democracy, W's presidency will go down in history as one of the best.


Put down the fucking crack pipe! I don't care if Iraq becomes the most powerful democracy in the world. It still isn't going to change the abortion of a presidency that W. has had. The problem with W. supporters is that you all share his complete obsession with Iraq, and lose sight of the issues that people actually give a shit about! Bush has presided over the worst economy our country has seen in almost 100 years.


No point in arguing it. Time will tell. The current stockmarket nosedive was prompted by Congressional corruption. Not much more Bush could have done about that than asking for Fannie/Freddie reform the dozen or so times he did. Even so, it hasn't prompted a "misery index". That was within the past 100 years wasn't it?
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:10 pm

Lula wrote:I always get John Bolton and Janet Reno mixed up for some reason.

[/quote]

I always get MIKE Reno and Janet Reno mixed up.
But around town, it was well known...when they got home at night
Their fat and psychopathic wives
Would thrash them within inches of their lives!
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:13 pm

RedWingFan wrote:Dude hasn't been as active since Stu correctly called him out on plagiarizing stuff. I think the dude's shook up. He'll be back, just waiting for all of us to forget. :D


You know what? Fuck you, man!

I copy and pasted ONE comment out of fifty COMPLETELY original statements, and he "correctly" called me out. OK.

Sorry, wrong answer. I've been starting another business venture to try to offset this Democrat-caused Global Recession. :roll:

Four words: Barney Frank Gay Porn.
But around town, it was well known...when they got home at night
Their fat and psychopathic wives
Would thrash them within inches of their lives!
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:14 pm

7 Wishes wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:Dude hasn't been as active since Stu correctly called him out on plagiarizing stuff. I think the dude's shook up. He'll be back, just waiting for all of us to forget. :D


You know what? Fuck you, man!

I copy and pasted ONE comment out of fifty COMPLETELY original statements, and he "correctly" called me out. OK.

Sorry, wrong answer. I've been starting another business venture to try to offset this Democrat-caused Global Recession. :roll:

Four words: Barney Frank Gay Porn.


:lol: Do yourself a favor and separate business and pleasure. :lol:
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby nolippin » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:15 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/ ... index.html


Source of Iraq WMD intelligence tells his story
CNN speaks to Rafid Alwan, code named "Curveball"


By Frederik Pleitgen
CNN

BERLIN, Germany (CNN) -- His phone number was published in a German phone directory -- Rafid Alwan, whose claims that Saddam Hussein was producing biological agents helped launch the Iraq war.


Rafid Alwan says he wants to return to Iraq to work for his people and his country.

He was reluctant to speak on the record, initially denying he was Iraqi or that he was the defector dubbed "Curveball" by the CIA. But eight months after we first contacted him, Alwan agreed to an interview, and we met in an anonymous hotel room in a southern German town.

Trying to get details from him was difficult -- he spoke at length, often launching into a flowery history of Iraq or a description of Hussein's crimes, and in Arabic, which meant we had to wait after each answer for a translation.

We spoke for more than three hours, Alwan sitting across the room from me, wearing a stylish black suit. But in the end, he hadn't said very much at all.

In the run-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, Secretary of State Colin Powell delivered a dramatic presentation to the U.N. Security Council. The United States had first-hand accounts, he said, detailing how Hussein was secretly creating biological agents using mobile laboratories in "road-trailer units and rail cars."

As slides depicting drawings of the supposed germ labs flashed on a big screen in the Security Council's chamber, Powell drove his point home:

"The source is an eyewitness, an Iraqi chemical engineer, who supervised one of these facilities."

Just days after Powell's presentation, U.N. weapons inspectors presented evidence they said disproved those claims. But six weeks later, on March 20, 2003, the United States launched its invasion, toppling Hussein's government in three weeks but locking itself in a war against an insurgency that has cost more than 4,000 American lives.

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No biological weapons, no germ labs, no weapons of mass destruction of any kind were found in Iraq after the invasion. Curveball -- Rafid Alwan -- remained in hiding in Germany, where he had been interviewed by the German intelligence service, the BND.

Subsequent U.S. investigations into the intelligence failure around the claims found that German intelligence considered the defector "crazy" and "out of control," while friends said he was a "liar."

And, it turned out, the CIA not only never spoke with him, it never even saw transcripts of the German interviews, only the Germans' analysis of the interviews.

Alwan brought with him to our meeting documents to prove his identity, certificates saying he has a degree in chemical engineering from Technical University in Baghdad and a student ID card from a German college. Multiple intelligence sources told CNN that the man we spoke with was, indeed, Curveball.

But Alwan told us he never told the BND that Iraq was producing weapons of mass destruction, and he said many other things said about him were false.

"There are many wrong statements made about me, and I want to declare it one by one. I have documents proving that everything said about me is false," he said.

"No," he said, "I never told anyone Saddam Hussein was producing weapons of mass destruction."

When I pressed him about Powell's use of his information, Alwan said in German with an Arabic accent, "That is Colin Powell's problem."

He said that as long as he is living in Germany, he will never tell the full story of what information he passed on to the BND.

"It is not true that I am the only person who said things about Iraq," he said. "There are so many other people who gave information as well. Right now I am trying to protect my children. They have been through hard times with me."

And then Alwan got nervous. He wiped his face often and lit a new cigarette after almost every question. He seemed uncomfortable in front of the camera.

Alwan had brought with him a second man, introduced only as "Mr. Ali." Mr. Ali was also wearing a flashy suit with a peach-colored shirt, and he seemed to be coaching Alwan, making strange signals behind my back.

As I talked to Alwan, I could feel the wind from Mr. Ali frantically waving his arms. Whenever Alwan began to offer details, Mr. Ali made a time out signal with his hands, and Alwan stopped talking.

When he wasn't prevented from talking by Mr. Ali, Alwan answered questions in a roundabout manner, sometimes backtracking and correcting himself, sometimes telling completely different stories in the same sentence.

Alwan came to Germany in 1999 seeking asylum and was picked up by the German intelligence service, which questioned him. According to intelligence sources, Alwan told the BND that Hussein had a secret biological weapons program, and that the cover was a seed purification plant in Djerf al Nadaf, a site just north of Baghdad, where mobile weapons labs in truck trailers would pick up the biological agents.

It begs the question: How could the BND and CIA trust Alwan's information with the stakes so high?

While he provided little detail during our interview, Alwan insisted that Hussein was producing weapons of mass destruction, and that he had worked on one of the weapons projects.

Norbert Juretzko, a former BND officer who is familiar with the Curveball case, now criticizes the German intelligence service for its handling of the matter. The BND wanted so badly to believe Alwan, Juretzko said, that the case officers didn't notice inconsistencies in his story.

"He was put under pressure by the BND: 'Tell us something,'" Juretzko said. "They were desperate for something. They gave him money, privileges, a visa and the like. And so this man used his imagination to get all these things."

Alwan, however, claims he was never "an agent or spy for any intelligence agencies in the world. And I never got paid by anyone."

Tyler Drumheller, the CIA's station chief in Europe at the time, said he tried to warn his superiors at the agency about using Curveball's information. Drumheller said he thinks the Curveball case is one of the lowest points in the history of the CIA, but he does not believe Alwan was at fault.

"He was driven by his own self-preservation, and then he got caught up in the story he was telling, and then he just had to keep going," Drumheller said.

Bob Drogin, who wrote about the case in "Curveball: Lies, Spies, and a Con Man Who Caused a War," called the episode "arguably the biggest intelligence failure in history."

"Never before have we gone to war on the basis of such an utter and complete fraud," Drogin said. "After 9/11, what we heard from the authorities was that they had failed to connect the dots that led to that scandal. In this case, they made up the dots."


But Alwan made clear in our meeting that he does not feel remorse. He said he wants to return to Iraq to work for his people and his country. And, he said, he feels the Iraq war was justified.

"I feel that America offered to Iraq what no other country can offer to Iraq," he said near the end of the interview. "America sacrificed its people and its money and its position to free a dictatorial country."
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:18 pm

Lula wrote:I am not 7 wishes. I don't lose.


WTF is this? I work 20 hours a day for 3 days and my own team is turning on me? Give me a break. I'm going back into retirement.
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