The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[whirlwind]

After the past eight years, the polls should show a landslide indication for the Dems. Just shows how wrong their pick is. Clinton would have had it nailed already. IF they lose, they should desolve and reform as the Pacification Party. They will not have had the Jackass as their mascot for nothing.

[Uno_up]

First off, I never claimed to know anything about you. I don't need to know anything about you to comment on a post you made! As for the Rays fan comment...please! I told you before the series started (and it's on this board, if you want to look it up) that the Rays would win this series. They are the better team, and they deserve to win. I also told you that I love their pitching staff. I simply said that Florida sports fans are an embarrassment to the country, and stand by that. All the gay cowbell ringing in the world isn't going to elevate Florida sports fans as being anything other than front runners!

Yes...you predicted the Rays would win this series...Seems to be the easy way out,not rooting for your team. If they win you can say, "oh golly gee, what a surprise!"...If they lose it's, "I predicted it anyways". Way to cheer on your team! A picture of you should be next to "fandom" in Websters.

So what! So is every other working stiff. Move to a country that has lower tax brackets, if the present system doesn't work for you. The reality is that in spite of the rhetoric, the middle class pay a larger proportion of taxes. I can tell you that I paid far more taxes when I was making $50K a year than I pay making quite a bit more than that. As your income goes up, your tax deductions and creative accounting follow! I simply don't buy into the notion that higher income earners are paying a disproportionate percentage of the taxes, in spite of the fact that the current U.S. tax code mandates it!

There are corporate loopholes but I know of nothing for an individual that helps me and doesn't help the poorest guy here. But someone like Obama saying people over $250,000 should be paying more? Why? They've had ZERO tax advantages all these years. There's not one single deduction I can take on my returns that someone else can't take. So where the fuck does Obama get $250,000 from? Rich is making a million if we're going to use a round number to cover the entire country without thought of demographics. Even then, a flat tax rate makes the most sense. I see no reason why I pay 35% of my income to taxes and someone else only pays 22%.

Raising the taxes on the rich is only going to cause people with small businesses to cut staff. Reduce benefits. Stop giving to charity. Yes, you heard me. If uncle sam is taking more of my money, then I'm hoarding the rest of it. Fuck the homeless. Fuck the poor. I'm not donating food to the shelter like I do now. I'm not giving away useful clothing to the Salvation Army. I'm not doing any of that. In addition, I'm not spending as much in the stores. I'm not eating out as often. Great job there. Raising taxes and you HURT the economy. Why people don't see that tax and spend has NEVER worked I don't know.

There is no need for me to "spin" anything. Your exact comment is listed below. You tell me the positive connotation that seems to be escaping me.

If greed is defined by me being sick and tired of poor people complaining I should pay more taxes to help them when I have yet to hear a thank you for buying the roads they drive on, paying for the teachers and textbooks their kids use

John from Boston

Still...nothing there for me to see. Nothing.

[Tito]

Not that I care but from Drudge:

GALLUP SHOCK: 49 OBAMA, 47 MCCAIN WITH LIKELY VOTERS

[Rhiannon]

Really now.....is this shit gonna stop on Nov. 5th, or do we get 150 more pages of who coulda, shoulda, woulda?

After Nov 5th it starts in with 2012... oh the movie never ends...

[S2M]

Really now.....is this shit gonna stop on Nov. 5th, or do we get 150 more pages of who coulda, shoulda, woulda?

After Nov 5th it starts in with 2012... oh the movie never ends...

Yes, but are you doing the right-handed movie camera move while you type that?

[Don]

Since Ms. Beelzebub's hubby, Todd "Independent Alaska" Palin belongs to the union, is he going to have to turn in his card if the McCain ticket gets into the WhiteHouse?

[YoungJRNY]

Why the fuck should someone working at McDonald's pay the same percentage of taxes that Warren Buffet pays?

Because it's fair? Why punish success? "Johnny, you got straight A's on your report card, but Jose got 3 F's on his. We're gonna make 3 of your grades B's and give Jose 3 D's." Yeah, that makes sense.

Brains are different than income. Little Jose can work his little ass off and eventually get to the status of where Johnny is, making his A's. The hard working Steel Mill worker will work his ass off his entire life and not see anywhere near a less working, desk job, moneymaker would.

Joe Steel Mill worker would have had more options had he taken advantage of this country's free education. I'm tired of the after wrok shot and beer guzzling, cigarette smoking bar boys bitching about how they make this country run and that they should get more money. Save up your beer, cigarette and bar money and go back to school and become a lawyer. But they won't...L A Z Y.

But yet, without us lazy, beer guzzling,cigarette,smoking bar boys.. it wouldn't allow you to go to college. I wouldn't call this lazy by the way.

[S2M]

Man....they're not lazy.....they're just energetically challenged, DUH!

[Enigma869]

Yes...you predicted the Rays would win this series...Seems to be the easy way out,not rooting for your team. If they win you can say, "oh golly gee, what a surprise!"...If they lose it's, "I predicted it anyways". Way to cheer on your team! A picture of you should be next to "fandom" in Websters.

Listen asshole...don't question my dedication as a sports fan. I picked the Rays to win, because they are simply the better team, period, end of story. I don't predict victory for my hometown team, just because of geography. I have eyes, and have an opinion as to who should win what. It doesn't mean it always works out that way. I thought the Patriots would beat the Giants in the Super Bowl, and still believe the Patriots had the better team. Sometimes in sports, the better team doesn't always win. In this case, it is working out for the Rays. I like their team a lot. They have a solid field manager and a good young team. Because Philadelphia is one of the great sports cities in America and has MUCH better fans, I'll be pulling for the Phillies in the World Series, but wouldn't be shocked if the Devil Dogs pulled it off! Also, Philadelphia hasn't won a single championship since I believe 1983, so they are WAY overdue!

There are corporate loopholes but I know of nothing for an individual that helps me and doesn't help the poorest guy here. But someone like Obama saying people over $250,000 should be paying more? Why? They've had ZERO tax advantages all these years. There's not one single deduction I can take on my returns that someone else can't take. So where the fuck does Obama get $250,000 from? Rich is making a million if we're going to use a round number to cover the entire country without thought of demographics. Even then, a flat tax rate makes the most sense. I see no reason why I pay 35% of my income to taxes and someone else only pays 22%.

This is a different argument. I don't even disagree with you that a flat tax wouldn't be more fair. It would close up a whole lot of those loopholes, and probably be much more balanced, across the board. I just don't ever see it happening. Does anyone know of any industrialized countries who have a flat tax?

If greed is defined by me being sick and tired of poor people complaining I should pay more taxes to help them when I have yet to hear a thank you for buying the roads they drive on, paying for the teachers and textbooks their kids use

Still...nothing there for me to see. Nothing.

I'll ask you again...what wasn't negative about this comment?


John from Boston

[Don]

Funny...we're learning more about Joe the Plumber in 24 hours than we've learned about Barack Obama in 24 months.

Fascinating stuff.

I think Joe " the unlicensed plumber " wants to crawl under a rock right about now.

[Saint John]

Since Ms. Beelzebub's hubby, Todd "Independent Alaska" Palin belongs to the union, is he going to have to turn in his card if the McCain ticket gets into the WhiteHouse?

Absolutely not. In fact, most rank and file union members will probably vote for McCain. I can't see firefighters and policemen voting for a guy that pals around with someone that tried to blow up the Pentagon!!! There are plenty of good union workers in this country. They just work in a flawed system.

[Saint John]

Why the fuck should someone working at McDonald's pay the same percentage of taxes that Warren Buffet pays?

Because it's fair? Why punish success? "Johnny, you got straight A's on your report card, but Jose got 3 F's on his. We're gonna make 3 of your grades B's and give Jose 3 D's." Yeah, that makes sense.

Brains are different than income. Little Jose can work his little ass off and eventually get to the status of where Johnny is, making his A's. The hard working Steel Mill worker will work his ass off his entire life and not see anywhere near a less working, desk job, moneymaker would.

Joe Steel Mill worker would have had more options had he taken advantage of this country's free education. I'm tired of the after wrok shot and beer guzzling, cigarette smoking bar boys bitching about how they make this country run and that they should get more money. Save up your beer, cigarette and bar money and go back to school and become a lawyer. But they won't...L A Z Y.

But yet, without us lazy, beer guzzling,cigarette,smoking bar boys.. it wouldn't allow you to go to college. I wouldn't call this lazy by the way.

I live in a community that was absolutely devastated by the mills closing. In fact, if you take the southeast side of Chicago and combine it with northeast Indiana I believe you have the largest steel producing region in the country from the 70's and early 80's. I live within 10 miles of literally 20 steel mills. Anyway, I saw how my buddy's dads, uncles and everyone else used to go to work, get paid for 12 hours and be physically out of the building after 6. I also know of people that literally slept on the job. Do I know people that worked their asses off? For sure. Is the work hard? Absolutely. But you can sure as shit blame unions for the destruction of the steel industry. Unions protect marginal workers. Good workers actually get penalized in the union system and don't even know it. That industry would still be booming had they busted the unions and implemented the same work policies that private companies use. But the higher ups have brain washed these guys into thinking that they're some sort of "brotherhood." I swear these guys that fleece union pension funds and take vacations on the backs of these guys that do all the work have to laugh themselves to sleep at night. They have to be amazed that people believe that "brotherhood" bullshit.

[RedWingFan]

Anyway, I saw how my buddy's dads, uncles and everyone else used to go to work, get paid for 12 hours and be physically out of the building after 6. I also know of people that literally slept on the job.

Dude, you just described my dad's 44 years working for General Motors.

[nolippin]

I think "Joe the Plant" is more like it. I don't think it is a coincidence that this guy is related to Charles Keating.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

From CNN Associate Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand


Joe Biden says he doesn't know any plumbers that make $250K.
(CNN) — Joe Biden sounded skeptical of “Joe the Plumber” Wurzelbacher’s working-class credentials Thursday.

Watch: 'Joe the plumber' presses Obama

“You notice John [McCain] continues to cling to the notion of this guy Joe the plumber,” Biden said on NBC’s Today show. “I don't have any Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year that are worried.”

Watch: 'Joe the plumber' on debate

“The Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood, the Joe the cops in my neighborhood, the Joe the grocery store owners in my neighborhood — they make, like 98 percent of the small businesses, less than $250,000 a year,” said the Democratic VP nominee. “And they’re going to do very well under us, and they’re going to be in real tough shape under John McCain.”

Watch: Moos: Plumbing the debate

McCain cited Wurzelbacher, who questioned Obama about his tax plan during a recent Ohio campaign swing, as someone would face higher taxes under the Democrat’s economic proposals.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters in the United States in 2007 was $47,350.

Filed under: Joe Biden • Joe the plumber

Funny...we're learning more about Joe the Plumber in 24 hours than we've learned about Barack Obama in 24 months.

Fascinating stuff.

I think Joe " the unlicensed plumber " wants to crawl under a rock right about now.

[Don]

Joe the plumber is unlicensed. He makes around 40,000 a year. His Boss's business is worth around 100,000. Joe says he works under his boss's license but he is still required under state law to have at least an apprentice license or journeyman's license. Joe and his boss might be getting fined soon.
Good luck Joe.

[peridactyl]

DAMN! What is this place? The graveyard for the remaining neo-Cons who haven't committed suicide?
Someplace to cry about the loss of power you can feel slipping out of your fingers???
Must live in the dwindling number of Red States.
Places without jobs to keep you guys busy??

Well, sorry to tell you guys, but there are BUNCHES of folk who are turning BLUE and it isn't because they are holding their breath. They live in the places that still have work.

Your time is past.

LOL

[BobbyinTN]

I bet all of this talk about "Polls" and "Annals" has BobbyinTN sprouting wood.

Nope, but thinking about you might do it.

[RedWingFan]

I bet all of this talk about "Polls" and "Annals" has BobbyinTN sprouting wood.

Nope, but thinking about you might do it.

Uh, oh. I think we have a love connection!

[BobbyinTN]

The highest approval from the least populated state. That's hilarious. However, I'm sure she seems perfect to someone with your IQ.

Check your own IQ there pal...Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota all have a lower population than does Alaska. That puts Alaska at #47. Also, Delaware, which is the state Biden represents, is only at #45.

Forgive me Braniac, 4th lowest population. Biden's approval rating outnumbers her's, two to one.

[BobbyinTN]

McCain should be frustrated. It's gotta be hard to be barely able to lift your arms from injuries suffered protecting your country while trying to cope with being behind in the polls to a man who has surrounded himself his entire life with anti-american socialists and communists. While McCain certainly isn't the world's gretaest candidate he should at least win by default if Americans have any common sense. Obama's company over the last 20+ years has basically made voting for him a borderline act of treason.

The only flaw in your argument is that McCain selected a dope, with a box of rocks in her head, as his running mate! I think many people in this election will be voting against Puppet Palin and not against John McCain!


John from Boston

Sarah Palin has the highest approval rating of any governor in this country. She's taken on big oil, made her state better and even fought to give fags benefits. She's shown the ability to fight big companies, fix state problems, and cross the aisle to veto a bill denying benefits to gays, as unconstitutional. She's fought for benefits for those that choose to live a disgusting lifestyle even though she disagrees with that lifestyle.

The highest approval from the least populated state. That's hilarious. However, I'm sure she seems perfect to someone with your IQ.

What the fuck does population have to do with anything? Her constituents are happy. She's doing her job and doing it well.

It's like winning a beauty contest in Hell.

[BobbyinTN]

Looks like ole Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating!! He also is not a licensed plumber, does not make $250,000 a year, has no firm plans to buy his boss's business...has only talked about it, and his voter's registration is under a different spelling of his name.

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/1...

http://www.progressohio.org/page/comm...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmit...

Video with an interview
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10...

Posted by becauseicare on October 16, 2008

He was a plant.

[Don]

Joe the plumber is unlicensed. He makes around 40,000 a year. His Boss's business is worth around 100,000. Joe says he works under his boss's license but he is still required under state law to have at least an apprentice license or journeyman's license. Joe and his boss might be getting fined soon.
Good luck Joe.

Joe is not running for President you fool, turn your Inspector Clouseau (sp) act towards Chicago. Not much time left.

Dude , are scared of Obama? When time runs out, are you going to hide away on Ruby Ridge with Todd Palin? Is your life going to fall apart?

If Joe would have skipped on his Budweiser Brunch, maybe he would have thought more about what he was going to say before he spoke.

[Ehwmatt]

There are corporate loopholes but I know of nothing for an individual that helps me and doesn't help the poorest guy here. But someone like Obama saying people over $250,000 should be paying more? Why? They've had ZERO tax advantages all these years. There's not one single deduction I can take on my returns that someone else can't take. So where the fuck does Obama get $250,000 from? Rich is making a million if we're going to use a round number to cover the entire country without thought of demographics. Even then, a flat tax rate makes the most sense. I see no reason why I pay 35% of my income to taxes and someone else only pays 22%.

Raising the taxes on the rich is only going to cause people with small businesses to cut staff. Reduce benefits. Stop giving to charity. Yes, you heard me. If uncle sam is taking more of my money, then I'm hoarding the rest of it. Fuck the homeless. Fuck the poor. I'm not donating food to the shelter like I do now. I'm not giving away useful clothing to the Salvation Army. I'm not doing any of that. In addition, I'm not spending as much in the stores. I'm not eating out as often. Great job there. Raising taxes and you HURT the economy. Why people don't see that tax and spend has NEVER worked I don't know.

I oppose the principle, but I can at least see the moral argument behind expecting the "rich" to give back more proportionately than a "poor" person. The trouble is, we as a society will never agree on what rich and poor means.

To me, rich means having so much money that you could stop working today and not make a single lifestyle sacrifice/change for the rest of your days. A guy making $250k a year with 5 kids in the queue to go to college is not rich, I'm sorry. Most people in that income bracket are likewise not rich, whatever the more liberal side of society thinks. On the other hand, some people see poor as making below a certain wage - I see poor as being pretty much destitute - struggling to provide basic needs for yourself and family and certainly struggling to save any money past paying for necessities. Others, like my ex-girlfriend's dad, consider himself poor because the roughly 250k$ he and his wife make together isn't enough to give him all the luxury indulgences he wants because he chose to have 4 kids spaced out over a decade. Clearly, not poor.

The problem is bigger than tax rates, egalitarianism, fairness, or what have you. We've lost the notion of making sacrifices in this country. Last time I heard said girlfriend's dad complaining about having to help pay for his kids' college tuition, I asked him when he started their 529s. He didn't even start my girlfriend's, the oldest, until she was 13! No wonder. I can only imagine the other shrewd financial moves this assclown has made throughout his life, sailing boats around and what not. I've seen with my own two eyes the dumb shit he does now. I'm 22 years old and don't have a pot to piss in but I sure as shit know better than this guy. This problem is so basic, and it has nothing to do with the big bad insurance companies or scummy lawyers or greedy CEOs or whoever else.

[Don]

Joe the plumber is unlicensed. He makes around 40,000 a year. His Boss's business is worth around 100,000. Joe says he works under his boss's license but he is still required under state law to have at least an apprentice license or journeyman's license. Joe and his boss might be getting fined soon.
Good luck Joe.

Joe is not running for President you fool, turn your Inspector Clouseau (sp) act towards Chicago. Not much time left.

Dude , are scared of Obama? When time runs out, are you going to hide away on Ruby Ridge with Todd Palin? Is your life going to fall apart?

If Obama would have skipped on his Red Punch Brunch, maybe he would have thought more about what he was going to say before he spoke.

Fixed that for ya.

Instead, O let slip a truth. Now, you are going to tear down an American Citizen who dared ask a question of a politician?

It was a public event and everyone knew cameras were there. O let the cat out of the bag with those remarks, he lost a few votes and now you are going to rip a fellow citizen to shreds?

Unreal!

Last I heard, Obama is a citizen too. Joe could have disappeared but he's still running his mouth, probably hoping to cash in on his 15 minutes of fame. Joe will survive.
Now I'm sure you are going to tell me Obama is not really a citizen and you're going to show me the proof to back it up. Or am I wrong?

[TRAGChick]

This says it ALL about Palin's belief-system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IS0PJdE ... 35278.html

[peridactyl]

Looks like ole Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating!! He also is not a licensed plumber, does not make $250,000 a year, has no firm plans to buy his boss's business...has only talked about it, and his voter's registration is under a different spelling of his name.

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/1...

http://www.progressohio.org/page/comm...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmit...

Video with an interview
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10...

Posted by becauseicare on October 16, 2008

He was a plant.

The latter two links don't work.

This is from the first link:

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not. In fact, after that ill-fated night at the Watergate, he may finally be giving plumbers a good name. But at a debate where John goes full bore on Obama for guilt-by-association with William Ayers (and dodges a bullet by Obama not mentioning Keating Five), the press is going to bring it back front and center by midday tomorrow once they delve deeper into the most popular plumber in America.

Don't think this is relevant, except it certainly may imply he leans toward McCain.
Not exactly the usual fan of Barack Obama.
He doesn't believe in Social Security, so consider the source. A guy who thinks all social programs are wrong. Wants to pave his own sidewalks and generate his own electricity, no doubt.

Who cares what he thinks?

[peridactyl]

Joe the plumber is unlicensed. He makes around 40,000 a year. His Boss's business is worth around 100,000. Joe says he works under his boss's license but he is still required under state law to have at least an apprentice license or journeyman's license. Joe and his boss might be getting fined soon.
Good luck Joe.

Joe is not running for President you fool, turn your Inspector Clouseau (sp) act towards Chicago. Not much time left.

Dude , are scared of Obama? When time runs out, are you going to hide away on Ruby Ridge with Todd Palin? Is your life going to fall apart?

If Obama would have skipped on his Red Punch Brunch, maybe he would have thought more about what he was going to say before he spoke.

Fixed that for ya.

Instead, O let slip a truth. Now, you are going to tear down an American Citizen who dared ask a question of a politician?

It was a public event and everyone knew cameras were there. O let the cat out of the bag with those remarks, he lost a few votes and now you are going to rip a fellow citizen to shreds?

Unreal!

IN this case, I have to agree that Joe whatever he is doesn't deserve 5 more minutes of our attention, or the medias. It only puts him in the spotlight where he has no right to be. And unless he was a "plant" he didn't ask for the attention, so we should leave the guy alone.

So I regret my last post.
I prefer to forget all about Joe and get back to Barack and John......

[nolippin]

Try these:

http://www.progressohio.org/page/commun ... rding/CHv8

Post from Dave Harding's Blog:
"Joe The Plumber" Related To Charles Keating? Yes That Charles Keating!
By Dave Harding, ProgressOhio - Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:59 am EDT


Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher related to Charles “the Crook” Keating. Oops

They thought they had a real live Joe Six-Pack who’s spurned Barack Obama’s tax plan. But what they forgot to do was check on Joe Wurzelbacher’s background.

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan.

The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.Update: Ben Smith of Politico Reports:

Two readers with access to the Ohio voter file say that Joe Wurzelbacher's inluence on this cycle will be limited in one way: He doesn't appear to be registered to vote.
More on Robert Wurzelbacher From The New York Times:

Keating In-Law Enters Plea And Will Assist Prosecutors


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... _file.html

October 16, 2008
Categories: Debates

The Joe file

Two readers with access to the Ohio voter file say that Joe Wurzelbacher's inluence on this cycle will be limited in one way: He doesn't appear to be registered to vote.

(And yes, the freelance opposition research on Joe began before the debate ended.)

CORRECTION: The Ohio press reports that he is registered to vote, under a slighlty misspelling of his name.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/1 ... 35151.html

Joe The Plumber: Obama Tap Dances Like "Sammy Davis Jr."

In a phone interview with CBS' Katie Couric, Joe Wurzelbacher said Barack Obama "tap dance[d] ... almost as good as Sammy Davis Jr." in their conversation. He also said he didn't actually make enough to fall into the group whose taxes would be raised under Obama -- but argued that it was a "slippery slope." Watch:

Looks like ole Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating!! He also is not a licensed plumber, does not make $250,000 a year, has no firm plans to buy his boss's business...has only talked about it, and his voter's registration is under a different spelling of his name.

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/1...

http://www.progressohio.org/page/comm...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmit...

Video with an interview
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10...

Posted by becauseicare on October 16, 2008

He was a plant.

The latter two links don't work.

This is from the first link:

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not. In fact, after that ill-fated night at the Watergate, he may finally be giving plumbers a good name. But at a debate where John goes full bore on Obama for guilt-by-association with William Ayers (and dodges a bullet by Obama not mentioning Keating Five), the press is going to bring it back front and center by midday tomorrow once they delve deeper into the most popular plumber in America.

Don't think this is relevant, except it certainly may imply he leans toward McCain.
Not exactly the usual fan of Barack Obama.
He doesn't believe in Social Security, so consider the source. A guy who thinks all social programs are wrong. Wants to pave his own sidewalks and generate his own electricity, no doubt.

Who cares what he thinks?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Unions ruined the steel industry, the auto industry and the teacher's union has all but ensured that this country will never see educated children come out of inner city schools. Unions of yester-year and today are very different.

Without the unions those industries would look like the N. Mariana sweatshops which Tom Delay praised as " a shining light for what is happening in the Republican Party, and [they] represent everything that is good about what we’re trying to do in America, in leading the world in the free-market system.”

[7 Wishes]

http://www.alan.com/2008/10/06/obama-called-terrorist-at-mccain-rally-kill-him-shouted-at-palin-rally/