The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[nolippin]

I think you have to also consider the child that would be born of an incestous relationship and all the trauma that might bring on all concerned.

dave, feel free to tell me "screw you" it's quite alright. i am in no way lecturing you. you referenced the father and the unborn, but did not speak of the victim. i am pointing out the absurdity of a child being forced to go through a pregnancy after already being violated in a most disturbing way. this is not a reference to you or your beliefs, but to palin's. perhaps pro lifers might consider 3 sides rather than 2 in consideration of the violated one. if i misunderstood you, my sincere apology. as much as we disagree i like and respect you and meant no harm.

As I said, I took the other side because you brought up the victim's side. I understand the victim's side and sympathize but the left does the same thiing they accuse us of doing, i.e., forgetting one of the innocent parties.

[conversationpc]

I think you have to also consider the child that would be born of an incestous relationship and all the trauma that might bring on all concerned.

Most women, in my experience, that are in this type of a situation and give birth, give the child up for adoption and bring an immense amount of joy to the life of parents who might not otherwise be able to have children.

[Lula]

I think you have to also consider the child that would be born of an incestous relationship and all the trauma that might bring on all concerned.

Most women, in my experience, that are in this type of a situation and give birth, give the child up for adoption and bring an immense amount of joy to the life of parents who might not otherwise be able to have children.

i was not speaking of a woman, but of a 12 yr old. big difference. and this is about palin's policy, nothing personal being implied.

[nolippin]

I'm thinking more of the physical and mental problems that are a great risk with inbreeding.

Children born of incest

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagere ... ageindex=1

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... ct/40/1/55

CHILDREN OF INCEST
Morton S. Adams M.D.1 and James V. Neel M.D., Ph.D.1

1 Department of Human Genetics, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan

Eighteen prospectively ascertained cases of brother x sister and father x daughter matings are described. A series of illegitimate children whose mothers were as nearly matched as possible to the incest mothers for intelligence, age, height, weight, and socioeconomic conditions were used as controls. Six of the children of incest had died or were found to have major defects on follow-up 6 months after birth date, whereas one of the comparison children was so classified. This is a larger inbreeding effect than would be predicted on the basis of published findings from marriages of first cousins. The series is published at this time to encourage others to collect these important, but rare and elusive data, in a prospective, controlled manner.

I think you have to also consider the child that would be born of an incestous relationship and all the trauma that might bring on all concerned.

Most women, in my experience, that are in this type of a situation and give birth, give the child up for adoption and bring an immense amount of joy to the life of parents who might not otherwise be able to have children.

[Saint John]

I bet all of this talk about "Polls" and "Annals" has BobbyinTN sprouting wood.

Nope, but thinking about you might do it.

All right, fucker. That made me laugh!!! Good one.

[treetopovskaya]

she also said she would not force her beliefs on others... including abortion.

cheese and rice.

she said she doesn't believe in abortion but also doesn't believe in taking that away from people.

HER beliefs keep HER from having an abortion.

if you all trust obama's word, why not palin's?

not wanting to rehash this again.... palin has stated she would like to overturn roe v wade, i am taking her at her word.

[treetopovskaya]

it's funny how people only believe what palin says when it suits them.

[RedWingFan]

I think you have to also consider the child that would be born of an incestous relationship and all the trauma that might bring on all concerned.

Most women, in my experience, that are in this type of a situation and give birth, give the child up for adoption and bring an immense amount of joy to the life of parents who might not otherwise be able to have children.

i was not speaking of a woman, but of a 12 yr old. big difference. and this is about palin's policy, nothing personal being implied.

What percentage of abortions are 12 year old rape victims? The fact is the vast majority are adult women who use abortion as a form of birth control.

With this line of reasoning, I could say because I believe it should be legal for me to shoot and kill an intruder who's broken into my home, All killing should be legal.

[Allied Forces]

This one in particular interests me. Of course, this has already long been proven as irrefutable fact.

The higher the level of education, the more likely a person is to vote Democrat.

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/PollTracker/fullpage?id=5611512

Most of the people I know who have graduated from college are either voting McCain or a third party candidate. If a 3rd party candidate had any chance at all, I would be as well and any other intelligent American, in my opinion.

7 Wishes made a typical smug, elitist comment. Why then do Democrats round up junkies, homeless people, and illegals to get them to vote?

[RedWingFan]

This one in particular interests me. Of course, this has already long been proven as irrefutable fact.

The higher the level of education, the more likely a person is to vote Democrat.

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/PollTracker/fullpage?id=5611512

Most of the people I know who have graduated from college are either voting McCain or a third party candidate. If a 3rd party candidate had any chance at all, I would be as well and any other intelligent American, in my opinion.

7 Wishes made a typical smug, elitist comment. Why then do Democrats round up junkies, homeless people, and illegals to get them to vote?

Great point!!

[Saint John]

What percentage of abortions are 12 year old rape victims?

Probably about half in Kentucky.

[treetopovskaya]

is anyone or did anyone watch the alfred e. smith memorial dinner?

*teary eyed*

funny & moving. can ya feel the love? }:C)

[RedWingFan]

What percentage of abortions are 12 year old rape victims?

Probably about half in Kentucky.

That's wrong dude.
Although our family had a childhood friend who got married to a guy from West Virginia and they moved down there.
When she got pregnant with their first child the nurse asked her, "So is your husband your brother?"
She was startled and asked, "What?" The nurse repeated the question. She said, "No, I was born and raised in Michigan"

[Uno_up]

is anyone or did anyone watch the alfred e. smith memorial dinner?

*teary eyed*

funny & moving. can ya feel the love? }:C)

no...great cause though!
i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

[conversationpc]

i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

Screw you!

[Uno_up]

i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

Screw you!

I'm pissed. When I typed that I dribbled chicken wing juice on my Kazmir jersey. Fuck!

[treetopovskaya]

both mccain & obama speak... funny stuff. both pretty funny.

btw... mccain on letterman tonight.

is anyone or did anyone watch the alfred e. smith memorial dinner?

*teary eyed*

funny & moving. can ya feel the love? }:C)

no...great cause though!
i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

[nolippin]

She would force it on her own child.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/0 ... 22924.html

In November 2006, then gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin declared that she would not support an abortion for her own daughter even if she had been raped.

Granting exceptions only if the mother's life was in danger, Palin said that when it came to her daughter, "I would choose life."

At the time, her daughter was 14 years old. Moreover, Alaska's rape rate was an abysmal 2.2 times above the national average and 25 percent of all rapes resulted in unwanted pregnancies. But Palin's position was palatable within the state's largely Republican political circles.

Now that she's John McCain's vice presidential candidate, Palin's abortion policy (among others) is undergoing renewed scrutiny. The Alaska Republican has long declared herself pro-life. And her credentials on the topic make her the belle of the ball among religious conservatives. But Democrats and abortion rights advocates say her stance, specifically her unwillingness to grant her own child a choice to end a pregnancy induced by rape, is drastically at odds with public opinion -- even among many Republicans.

"This is absolutely outside the mainstream. Even in South Dakota they rejected [outlawing abortion in cases of rape] in '06 because it has gone too far and everyone can identify that in a case of rape or incest a woman should have the chance to make the decision with their family or doctor," said Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro Choice America. "Women voters are going to reject both her and John McCain, and I think we see it specifically because we reach out to Republicans and independent pro-choice women. They live in the suburbs and exurbs. They are very much part of the mainstream America. And woman in general will reject that ticket."

Palin makes no secret of her abortion views. A member of the group Feminists for Life, she told the Alaska Right to Life Board in 2002 that she "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion." In an Eagle Forum Alaska questionnaire filled out during the 2006 gubernatorial race, Palin again stated that she is against abortion unless a doctor determined that a mother's life would end due to the pregnancy.

"I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society," she wrote, "we cannot condone ending an innocent's life."

But it's not just abortion policy that has Democrats up in arms over Palin. In that same 2006 questionnaire, the soon-to-be governor said she would fund abstinence-only education programs in schools. "The explicit sex-ed programs," she added, "will not find my support." The stance, which reflected the priorities of the GOP, nevertheless led to an incredulous editorial in the Juneau Empire.

"Abstinence may be a laudable goal, but failing to educate teenagers about how to protect themselves from disease or unintended pregnancy is tragically misguided. According to the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, abstinence-only programs do not reduce sexual activity, teen pregnancy or sexually transmitted disease. Every day 10,000 U.S. teens contract a sexually transmitted disease, 2,400 get pregnant and 55 contract HIV. Unintended pregnancies happen to Republicans, Democrats and people of all faiths."

While Palin's positions have drawn the ire and concern of the pro-choice and progressive community, they are largely -- save abortions in the case of rape -- in line with John McCain's own stances. The Senator is against federal funding of birth control and sex education. He has called for the overturning of Roe v. Wade and received a zero rating from NARAL. Once, aboard the Straight Talk Express, McCain was asked if he supported the use of contraception or President Bush's abstinence-only education program to stem the spreading of AIDS.

"After a long pause, he said, 'I think I support the president's policy.' Does he believe that contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV? After another long pause, he replied, "You've stumped me."

she also said she would not force her beliefs on others... including abortion.

cheese and rice.

she said she doesn't believe in abortion but also doesn't believe in taking that away from people.

HER beliefs keep HER from having an abortion.

if you all trust obama's word, why not palin's?

not wanting to rehash this again.... palin has stated she would like to overturn roe v wade, i am taking her at her word.

[7 Wishes]

7 Wishes made a typical smug, elitist comment. Why then do Democrats round up junkies, homeless people, and illegals to get them to vote?

It's not smug, asshole. It's fact...pure, absolute fact.

ACORN's issue has EVERYTHING to do with employees - who were paid based upon the number of new registrations they collected - put duplicate or false information down on their forms. Give it a rest already.

http://progressillinois.com/2008/10/10/vilifying-acorn-without-facts

1. In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, ACORN hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers. As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer. Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.

2. Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms, Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote. It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.

3. In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions. They are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.

4. This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote. There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly. To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.

5. When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud. But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.” This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.

6. Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials. It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression. Republican US Attorneys David Iglesias (NM), Todd Graves (MO), and John McKay (WA) all were fired primarily because they refused to prosecute similar bogus charges of “voter fraud.” Another US Attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers, was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.

[7 Wishes]

no...great cause though!
i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

Yeah, Tampa deserves a World Series berth.

Well, the players do. The "fans" do not. They won the division this year and made the leap from 29th to 26th in overall attendance. Real devotion, that.

[Skylorde]

But time and time again, the proof is in the pudding. Higher education = Democratic voter.

Higher education is, by far, no measure of intelligence. As someone who's been working in the tech sector, my person experience is the more education someone has, the fucking DUMBER they are. I've bounced more "Computer Science" grads from my department than non college grads. Couple that with the majority of successful people I personally know in tech never stepped foot in a college classroom.

So I'm with ya, higher edumacation = Democrat

[7 Wishes]

Higher education is, by far, no measure of intelligence.

Well, it certainly didn't help Palin.

[RedWingFan]

no...great cause though!
i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

Yeah, Tampa deserves a World Series berth.

Well, the players do. The "fans" do not. They won the division this year and made the leap from 29th to 26th in overall attendance. Real devotion, that.

Dude, I forgot Biden's 3 letter word in my list. "J-O-B-S, jobs"

Damnit. I'll try to get em all for you.

[conversationpc]

i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

Screw you!

I'm pissed. When I typed that I dribbled chicken wing juice on my Kazmir jersey. Fuck!

Serves you right.

[treetopovskaya]

for the love of god. the religion they believe in doesn't believe in abortion... in any case. those are her beliefs... her families beliefs. why is this even an issue? again... she has said she wouldn't force her beliefs on to others.

She would force it on her own child.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/0 ... 22924.html

In November 2006, then gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin declared that she would not support an abortion for her own daughter even if she had been raped.

Granting exceptions only if the mother's life was in danger, Palin said that when it came to her daughter, "I would choose life."

At the time, her daughter was 14 years old. Moreover, Alaska's rape rate was an abysmal 2.2 times above the national average and 25 percent of all rapes resulted in unwanted pregnancies. But Palin's position was palatable within the state's largely Republican political circles.

Now that she's John McCain's vice presidential candidate, Palin's abortion policy (among others) is undergoing renewed scrutiny. The Alaska Republican has long declared herself pro-life. And her credentials on the topic make her the belle of the ball among religious conservatives. But Democrats and abortion rights advocates say her stance, specifically her unwillingness to grant her own child a choice to end a pregnancy induced by rape, is drastically at odds with public opinion -- even among many Republicans.

"This is absolutely outside the mainstream. Even in South Dakota they rejected [outlawing abortion in cases of rape] in '06 because it has gone too far and everyone can identify that in a case of rape or incest a woman should have the chance to make the decision with their family or doctor," said Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro Choice America. "Women voters are going to reject both her and John McCain, and I think we see it specifically because we reach out to Republicans and independent pro-choice women. They live in the suburbs and exurbs. They are very much part of the mainstream America. And woman in general will reject that ticket."

Palin makes no secret of her abortion views. A member of the group Feminists for Life, she told the Alaska Right to Life Board in 2002 that she "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion." In an Eagle Forum Alaska questionnaire filled out during the 2006 gubernatorial race, Palin again stated that she is against abortion unless a doctor determined that a mother's life would end due to the pregnancy.

"I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society," she wrote, "we cannot condone ending an innocent's life."

But it's not just abortion policy that has Democrats up in arms over Palin. In that same 2006 questionnaire, the soon-to-be governor said she would fund abstinence-only education programs in schools. "The explicit sex-ed programs," she added, "will not find my support." The stance, which reflected the priorities of the GOP, nevertheless led to an incredulous editorial in the Juneau Empire.

"Abstinence may be a laudable goal, but failing to educate teenagers about how to protect themselves from disease or unintended pregnancy is tragically misguided. According to the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, abstinence-only programs do not reduce sexual activity, teen pregnancy or sexually transmitted disease. Every day 10,000 U.S. teens contract a sexually transmitted disease, 2,400 get pregnant and 55 contract HIV. Unintended pregnancies happen to Republicans, Democrats and people of all faiths."

While Palin's positions have drawn the ire and concern of the pro-choice and progressive community, they are largely -- save abortions in the case of rape -- in line with John McCain's own stances. The Senator is against federal funding of birth control and sex education. He has called for the overturning of Roe v. Wade and received a zero rating from NARAL. Once, aboard the Straight Talk Express, McCain was asked if he supported the use of contraception or President Bush's abstinence-only education program to stem the spreading of AIDS.

"After a long pause, he said, 'I think I support the president's policy.' Does he believe that contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV? After another long pause, he replied, "You've stumped me."

she also said she would not force her beliefs on others... including abortion.

cheese and rice.

she said she doesn't believe in abortion but also doesn't believe in taking that away from people.

HER beliefs keep HER from having an abortion.

if you all trust obama's word, why not palin's?

not wanting to rehash this again.... palin has stated she would like to overturn roe v wade, i am taking her at her word.

[Saint John]

Higher education is, by far, no measure of intelligence.

Well, it certainly didn't help Palin.

She's a governor...you do push ups.

[conversationpc]

ACORN's issue has EVERYTHING to do with employees - who were paid based upon the number of new registrations they collected - put duplicate or false information down on their forms. Give it a rest already.

http://progressillinois.com/2008/10/10/vilifying-acorn-without-facts

I saw interviews from multiple voters saying that they actually registered multiple times themselves, not that the workers simply filled out the forms themselves. That coupled with the fact that ACORN has a known affiliation with Democrats certainly makes it a bit more sinister than you're letting on. What you said doesn't cover all the problems this organization seems to have produced.

[treetopovskaya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPCMGs7dr9o

[Uno_up]

no...great cause though!
i'm watching kazmir mow down the sox.

Yeah, Tampa deserves a World Series berth.

Well, the players do. The "fans" do not. They won the division this year and made the leap from 29th to 26th in overall attendance. Real devotion, that.

Like I said before...the less # of fans in attendance, the better the seats I can get!
Politics aside, be happy for me.

[7 Wishes]

She's a governor...you do push ups.

I'd let her do squat-thrusts on my face any day, though.