The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[treetopovskaya]

you mean like the dems/libs are trying to smear joe the plumber? cindy mccain? }:C|

wow, colin powell has said a lot of poignant things, one stands out about the issue of religion and what it really means to be american. he is an intelligent man and i respect him for standing by his words, even when i disagree with what he said. he truly is a good man, i hope the right does not try and smear him for his endorsement of obama/biden.

[treetopovskaya]

i hope you're talking about the dems/libs "nothing seems to be out of bounds"... they have targeted more people than the right. name please some people the reps have targeted?

you might want to get dean on this one. }:C)

i agree it would be a foolish move to target powell, but nothing seems to be out of bounds while we get to the close of this historic race.

[Enigma869]

John, in all seriousness....I think the republican party (for the good of itself) needs to shut down for a while and rethink it's positions on several key-issues and reinvent itself a good bit.

And to that end, rallying behind any old-gaurd republican people, irrespective of their position on the conservative barometer, is a big mistake. While Powell may very well be a respected, independent thinker in republo-land. The fact *still* remains that he's connected to *both* Bush's by cabinet positions, policy thinking, war-time planning...etc...

Is that really the person that should be leading the republican party out of the doldrums that the Hayseed idiot drove it into?

I dunno if that works for me....but hell, you asked the question!

I understand your point, Frank. I keep trying to forget his connections to dumb and dumber! I think at this point, Powell would admit that he and W. simply weren't the right fit, and have VERY different ideologies! Now that Jana mentioned the interview Powell did with his wife, I do remember him saying that he had no interest in running. As I said, I like the guy, in spite of his connection to dumb and dumber. I think he's an honorable man, and I believe that he would be a superb President. Oh well...It looks like Obama is going to have to do. I'm hoping for the best, but am not overly optimistic, given what the guy is going to have to work with.


John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

i hope you're talking about the dems/libs "nothing seems to be out of bounds"... they have targeted more people than the right.

Which campaign was the first to renege their promise and swing sharply into negative campaigning again?
Along with Karl Rove's protege, McCain is now employing the same robo-call company that smeared his own family in 2000.
Its a trite point by now, but Obama the greenhorn senator has appeared vastly more presidential than McCain and his series of stunts and contrivances.

[7 Wishes]

i hope you're talking about the dems/libs "nothing seems to be out of bounds"... they have targeted more people than the right. name please some people the reps have targeted?

Let's see...

Gore
Obama
both Clintons
Kerry
Biden
Pelosi
Mondale
Carter

And pretty much everyone else who doesn't sign off on their new, twisted brand of neo-conservatism.

Don't even go there...your new Party is a hundred times more guilty of this than the Democrats.

[strangegrey]

I have no doubts he's an honorable man....but I really think the republican party needs a hard reboot.

I suspect that's going to happen only after the old, near death leadership kicks the bucket. Neo-conservatism is something that I believe is a misnomer...and something that Deano and others may be incorrectly using (no disrespect, Dean). I believe true neo-conservatism is yet to be developed and presented to be public. The current political thinking out of the RNC is the same shit...with slightly different themes to paint a picture of this 'different' neo-con thing. In reality, it's the same shit....different name.

In the end, a reborn republican party will likely have to shed this abortion bullshit and move on without it as a defining issue. It's a lost battle...and most of the younger republican/conservatives admit that. A reborn republican party will also have to tell the religious right to go fucking swim in a deep pool and not poke their heads above water until things turn painfully black for them....

[7 Wishes]

Dear Tree, Lie Finder, et all...

It's not even close!!!!

Obama/Biden 286 249 Solid 37 Leaning

McCain/Palin 155 140 Solid 15 Leaning

Toss Up 97

North Dakota Leaning McCain
Florida Leaning Obama
Washington Leaning Obama
Colorado Leaning Obama
Wisconsin Leaning Obama
State Obama (D) McCain (R) RCP Average RCP Status
Ohio (20) 48.5 45.7 Obama +2.8 Toss Up
Nevada (5) 49.0 44.8 Obama +4.2 Toss Up
North Carolina (15) 47.3 46.0 Obama +1.3 Toss Up
Missouri (11) 49.3 46.8 Obama +2.5 Toss Up
West Virginia (5) 45.2 47.6 McCain +2.4 Toss Up
Florida (27) 49.2 46.0 Obama +3.2 Toss Up
Indiana (11) 45.0 48.8 McCain +3.8 Toss Up
Colorado (9) 50.6 44.6 Obama +6.0 Leaning
Georgia (15) 44.2 51.0 McCain +6.8 Leaning
Virginia (13) 51.8 43.7 Obama +8.1 Leaning
New Mexico (5) 50.7 42.3 Obama +8.4 Leaning
Minnesota (10) 51.2 42.4 Obama +8.8 Leaning
Washington (11) 50.3 41.0 Obama +9.3 Solid
Wisconsin (10) 52.2 41.5 Obama +10.7 Solid
Michigan (17) 50.7 40.2 Obama +10.5 Solid
Montana (3) 42.8 52.0 McCain +9.2 Solid
Oregon (7) 54.7 39.7 Obama +15.0 Solid
Iowa (7) 52.8 41.0 Obama +11.8 Solid
New Jersey (15) 50.8 39.5 Obama +11.3 Solid
New Hampshire (4) 52.0 41.6 Obama +10.4 Solid
Pennsylvania (21) 53.6 40.2 Obama +13.4 Solid
Texas (34) 40.3 53.7 McCain +13.4 Solid
California (55) 53.3 38.8 Obama +14.5 Solid
Massachusetts (12) 56.0 35.7 Obama +20.3 Solid
Mississippi (6) 41.7 52.0 McCain +10.3 Solid
Kentucky (8) 39.5 54.3 McCain +14.8 Solid
Kansas (6) 40.7 52.7 McCain +12.0 Solid
Louisiana (9) 38.3 53.7 McCain +15.4 Solid
Arkansas (6) 33.0 49.3 McCain +16.3 Solid
Connecticut (7) 55.8 36.8 Obama +19.0 Solid
New York (31) 59.7 34.7 Obama +25.0 Solid
Tennessee (11) 38.0 53.7 McCain +15.7 Solid
Alabama (9) 33.5 57.3 McCain +23.8 Solid
Arizona (10) 39.0 50.3 McCain +11.3 Solid
Illinois (21) 55.0 37.3 Obama +17.7 Solid
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[strangegrey]

Dear Tree, Lie Finder, et all...

It's not even close!!!!

State Obama (D) McCain (R) RCP Average RCP Status
Ohio (20) 48.5 45.7 Obama +2.8 Toss Up
Nevada (5) 49.0 44.8 Obama +4.2 Toss Up
North Carolina (15) 47.3 46.0 Obama +1.3 Toss Up
Missouri (11) 49.3 46.8 Obama +2.5 Toss Up
West Virginia (5) 45.2 47.6 McCain +2.4 Toss Up
Florida (27) 49.2 46.0 Obama +3.2 Toss Up
Indiana (11) 45.0 48.8 McCain +3.8 Toss Up
Colorado (9) 50.6 44.6 Obama +6.0 Leaning
Georgia (15) 44.2 51.0 McCain +6.8 Leaning
Virginia (13) 51.8 43.7 Obama +8.1 Leaning
New Mexico (5) 50.7 42.3 Obama +8.4 Leaning
Minnesota (10) 51.2 42.4 Obama +8.8 Leaning
Washington (11) 50.3 41.0 Obama +9.3 Solid
Wisconsin (10) 52.2 41.5 Obama +10.7 Solid
Michigan (17) 50.7 40.2 Obama +10.5 Solid
Montana (3) 42.8 52.0 McCain +9.2 Solid
Oregon (7) 54.7 39.7 Obama +15.0 Solid
Iowa (7) 52.8 41.0 Obama +11.8 Solid
New Jersey (15) 50.8 39.5 Obama +11.3 Solid
New Hampshire (4) 52.0 41.6 Obama +10.4 Solid
Pennsylvania (21) 53.6 40.2 Obama +13.4 Solid
Texas (34) 40.3 53.7 McCain +13.4 Solid
California (55) 53.3 38.8 Obama +14.5 Solid
Massachusetts (12) 56.0 35.7 Obama +20.3 Solid
Mississippi (6) 41.7 52.0 McCain +10.3 Solid
Kentucky (8) 39.5 54.3 McCain +14.8 Solid
Kansas (6) 40.7 52.7 McCain +12.0 Solid
Louisiana (9) 38.3 53.7 McCain +15.4 Solid
Arkansas (6) 33.0 49.3 McCain +16.3 Solid
Connecticut (7) 55.8 36.8 Obama +19.0 Solid
New York (31) 59.7 34.7 Obama +25.0 Solid
Tennessee (11) 38.0 53.7 McCain +15.7 Solid
Alabama (9) 33.5 57.3 McCain +23.8 Solid
Arizona (10) 39.0 50.3 McCain +11.3 Solid
Illinois (21) 55.0 37.3 Obama +17.7 Solid
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This is the issue most republican/conservatives fail to see here...

The same electoral map that got the democrats in trouble in 2000, is whats going to help them win in 2008. McCain *might* be picking up some of the slack in the national polls, but he's picking it up in the wrong spots.

If McCain losses Virginia, it's all over for him....he doesn't stand a chance anywhere else. It's that dire a situation for him. Who the fuck cares if McCain is showing a national increase of a few more points? Those increases are clearly happening in states where McCain is already going to win...


The national/popular vote is no more or less significant in this election than it was in 2000...and in 2000 it meant dick. RIght now, Obama's got McCain looking like a complete failure in all the right states...and thats what matters....

[strangegrey]

The national/popular vote is no more or less significant in this election than it was in 2000...and in 2000 it meant dick. RIght now, Obama's got McCain looking like a complete failure in all the right states...and thats what matters....

LOL...I didn't even mean the pun here, but it applies.

[Eric]

I have no doubts he's an honorable man....but I really think the republican party needs a hard reboot.

I suspect that's going to happen only after the old, near death leadership kicks the bucket. Neo-conservatism is something that I believe is a misnomer...and something that Deano and others may be incorrectly using (no disrespect, Dean). I believe true neo-conservatism is yet to be developed and presented to be public. The current political thinking out of the RNC is the same shit...with slightly different themes to paint a picture of this 'different' neo-con thing. In reality, it's the same shit....different name.

In the end, a reborn republican party will likely have to shed this abortion bullshit and move on without it as a defining issue. It's a lost battle...and most of the younger republican/conservatives admit that. A reborn republican party will also have to tell the religious right to go fucking swim in a deep pool and not poke their heads above water until things turn painfully black for them....

You may be right. I'm a Republican, but find it difficult to embrace any of the positions that they tie too much into religion wise.

[Lula]

for fact finder-

Let's see Sarah do this.

http://www.kansascity.com/703/story/847604.html

Obama takes on taxes, tough times in KC speech

By STEVE KRASKE
The Kansas City Star
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama waved to the crowd Saturday night a rally at the Liberty Memorial.
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama waved to the crowd Saturday night a rally at the Liberty Memorial.
Presidential candidate Barack Obama joked Saturday with supporters at his headquarters after he arrived in Kansas City for an event at Liberty Memorial.

The message from Barack Obama on Saturday night might have been John McCain’s: It’s not over till it’s over.

Still, the temptation surely was there on a sun-splashed October day when he spoke at the Liberty Memorial to a crowd estimated at perhaps 75,000 by a Kansas City parks official. Under the Arch in St. Louis, it had been even better — 80,000 to 100,000.

Obama has edged out front in the polls here. He’s been running two television ads to McCain’s one. He might have raised a stunning $100 million last month. So a lot of voters are excited.

Such as Rolland Love of Overland Park:

“Oh God, he’ll win easy. He’s got the support of all the people who truly want to see a change from the way things have been all these years.”

It was the Loves out there that Obama wanted to talk to.

“We are 17 days away from changing this country,” Obama said as the darkness of evening descended in Kansas City. “Seventeen days. But we can’t get overconfident. We can’t be cocky. This election is too important to take anything for granted.”

Obama’s message Saturday was all taxes and economy. Casting the tax debate as a “values” issue, Obama said his Republican opponent is “out of touch” for equating welfare with the Illinois senator’s plan to cut taxes for middle-class families.

“It comes down to values — in America, do we simply value wealth, or do we value the work that creates it?” Obama said in Kansas City.

“That’s right, Missouri — John McCain is so out of touch with the struggles you are facing that he must be the first politician in history to call a tax cut for working people ‘welfare.’ ”

[Don]

welcome back jana!! well said. i have always liked colin powell; he could have had my support if he had run for president. i hope we see general powell back in the administration.

I love Colin Powell. Why can't the Republicans get this guy to run???? This guy is soooooo bright, and so thoughtful. I've always admired the guy and have always believed him to be a man of GREAT integrity! I loved when he flat out told Tom Brokaw "Sarah Palin is not ready to be president, and that's the vice president's job"! I also liked the fact that he went after McCain, on his endless efforts to connect Obama to Ayers, and called it "demagoguery". This guy is truly a breath of fresh air. He doesn't come across as a politician, at all, which is why I think I've always liked the guy. Good on him for calling out his own party, and McCain's moronic choice! I'm going to the polls on November 4th, and writing in Powell's name. Do any Republicans think Powell would ever consider running for President? He was the absolute best person that W. ever associated himself with.


John from Boston

When all is said and done, this one person has to be seen as the bane of the Republican party, even more so than Bush when it comes to McCain's erosion of support from previous supporters. I myself may have viewed things in a different light if not for this one ill conceived choice of running mate.

[strangegrey]

I have no doubts he's an honorable man....but I really think the republican party needs a hard reboot.

I suspect that's going to happen only after the old, near death leadership kicks the bucket. Neo-conservatism is something that I believe is a misnomer...and something that Deano and others may be incorrectly using (no disrespect, Dean). I believe true neo-conservatism is yet to be developed and presented to be public. The current political thinking out of the RNC is the same shit...with slightly different themes to paint a picture of this 'different' neo-con thing. In reality, it's the same shit....different name.

In the end, a reborn republican party will likely have to shed this abortion bullshit and move on without it as a defining issue. It's a lost battle...and most of the younger republican/conservatives admit that. A reborn republican party will also have to tell the religious right to go fucking swim in a deep pool and not poke their heads above water until things turn painfully black for them....

You may be right. I'm a Republican, but find it difficult to embrace any of the positions that they tie too much into religion wise.

I really think that the party is lost....Deano's been saying it for a few years and I now agree with him. As a conservative/republican, I actually got mildly energized by the pick of Palin this past summer. If most of you remember, I was VERY down on republicans and McCain (specifically) prior to that pick...going back as far as a year ago. Then Palin started to talk to reporters and I went "holy fuck, this woman is a nightmare. What kind of complete idiot would pick her as a running mate? Is this the type of judgment I want in the white house?"

There are various issues they need to shed like a bad fucking habbit. Abortion is the big gorilla. While I think at times, Gulliani is a fucking moron, he was on CNN this morning with Blitzer...and he said what I've been saying for a while. (Im paraphrasing) "Whether or not you have a Supreme Court that *could* turn over Roe v. Wade is no longer an issue...and never should have been one. The issue is whether they *should*, given the type of court system we have"...he went on to discuss other reasons why more conservative picks should be put onto the court, so the rest is irrelevant to this discussion...

...but the point I'm trying to make is that the right's hammering of this issue, which really should have been a non-issue for 30-40 friggin years....is only dividing the party amongst itself...while uniting the left against those that identify with pro-life.

You can argue to you're blue in the face whether or not abortion is evil or should be allowed. That's not the issue. Right now it's allowed and it's codified in law, in a way that makes it *VERY* difficult to be changed in the immediate future. To divide a party, create a big fat fucking target for the left to take target practice at....all over an issue that has very little real chance of being resolved, is absolutely idiotic.

It's sorta like invading one country to look for a known terrorist residing two countries to the right....it's dumb ass logic. But I guess the republican's are chock full of that right now....

[treetopovskaya]

don't blame him. the first people the dem/lib (media) go after are family. }:C|

it's disgusting.

John, Colin Powell said in an interview last summer in 2007 with Larry King he was not interested in running for president. I think, if I remember right, he said he had been approached. His wife was with him in the interview, and she has suffered from severe depression in the past. If she has anything to do with it, he will never run from what I gathered. It was an interesting interview. I'm speaking from memory, but I don't think he has the stomach for politics as far as running for office.

[The_Noble_Cause]

don't blame him. the first people the dem/lib (media) go after are family. }:C|

it's disgusting.

Duhhhhhhhhh

Why do I hear the protracted beeeep of a flatlining heart monitor with each of your posts?
Are you really this fucking stupid?

[treetopovskaya]

you mean questioning their intentions or judgment? that's hardly "targeting" or "smearing".

the dem/lib media has gone after mccain/palin FAMILY members... that is way out of line & shouldn't be tolerated. all jtp did was have the adacity to dare ask "the one" a question. the media dragged his name or at least are trying to drag him through the mud. all to discredit him. instead of listening to what obama had to say... he is the one running for prez... NOT joe the plumber. it could have been anyone asking the question. what people should & need to focus on was the answer obama gave... NOT the question... or statement.

sitll waiting for lu... er dean to give me one name... a family member to be fair!

i hope you're talking about the dems/libs "nothing seems to be out of bounds"... they have targeted more people than the right. name please some people the reps have targeted?

Let's see...

Gore
Obama
both Clintons
Kerry
Biden
Pelosi
Mondale
Carter

And pretty much everyone else who doesn't sign off on their new, twisted brand of neo-conservatism.

Don't even go there...your new Party is a hundred times more guilty of this than the Democrats.

[treetopovskaya]

this coming from a guy who can't debate without belittling & insulting. that's shows a lack of intelligence.

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. (that's prolly the smartest thing i have seen you say so far!)

don't blame him. the first people the dem/lib (media) go after are family. }:C|

it's disgusting.

Duhhhhhhhhh

Why do I hear the protracted beeeep of a flatlining heart monitor with each of your posts?
Are you really this fucking stupid?

[Enigma869]

I'm a Republican, but find it difficult to embrace any of the positions that they tie too much into religion wise. Then Palin started to talk to reporters and I went "holy fuck, this woman is a nightmare. What kind of complete idiot would pick her as a running mate? Is this the type of judgment I want in the white house?"

Frank...I have to say that you're one of the most level-headed dudes on this board. I didn't even know you were a card-carrying Republican, because you seem way too fucking rational to be partisan, at all! It's soooo refreshing to finally hear a Republican actually be honest about the disaster that is Puppet Palin. I honestly haven't been able to figure out how ANYONE, not related to Palin, could actually praise or defend her. The more the woman talks, the more embarrassing she is. If she's not the worst political candidate in my lifetime (for either party), she's awfully close!

As for your take on abortion, I couldn't agree with you more. You said earlier in this thread that NOBODY is "pro-abortion", and you are spot on with that assessment. In spite of what conservatives suggest, I've never met a human being in my life who advocates killing babies! Thanks for adding some balance to this heated discussion, and for actually being honest, in spite of your party affiliation!


John from Boston

[Jana]

Actually, Tree, Colin Powell's wife is angry at the way the Republican Bush administration treated her husband. He just won't speak about it she said. As far as running for public office, especially POTUS, come on, both sides take shots and both sides (Rep. and Dem.) get hit UNFAIRLY at times. Neither side is innocent, except in your eyes. The Reps. seem to be especially vicious this election, though, but I guess that's because they're losing and are desperate.

[Lula]

i hope you're talking about the dems/libs "nothing seems to be out of bounds"... they have targeted more people than the right. name please some people the reps have targeted?

you might want to get dean on this one. }:C)

i agree it would be a foolish move to target powell, but nothing seems to be out of bounds while we get to the close of this historic race.

for recent back handedness the robo phone calls about ayers.
in the not so recent past- the mass emails claiming obama was a muslim ( which wasn't from the mccaon camp but from the general republican camp).

as far as the dems targeting families? i disagree. sure there are most likely fringe idiots doing that, but when the news broke about the palin teenage pregnancy it obama himself that made it clear that families are off limits. mccain said some pretty harsh things regarding chelsea clinton. it becomes tit for tat at this stage. it has been the practice of karl rove to be negative and his protege is part of the mccain campaign.

[Rick]

I'm a Republican, but find it difficult to embrace any of the positions that they tie too much into religion wise. Then Palin started to talk to reporters and I went "holy fuck, this woman is a nightmare. What kind of complete idiot would pick her as a running mate? Is this the type of judgment I want in the white house?"

Frank...I have to say that you're one of the most level-headed dudes on this board. I didn't even know you were a card-carrying Republican, because you seem way too fucking rational to be partisan, at all! It's soooo refreshing to finally hear a Republican actually be honest about the disaster that is Puppet Palin. I honestly haven't been able to figure out how ANYONE, not related to Palin, could actually praise or defend her. The more the woman talks, the more embarrassing she is. If she's not the worst political candidate in my lifetime (for either party), she's awfully close!

As for your take on abortion, I couldn't agree with you more. You said earlier in this thread that NOBODY is "pro-abortion", and you are spot on with that assessment. In spite of what conservatives suggest, I've never met a human being in my life who advocates killing babies! Thanks for adding some balance to this heated discussion, and for actually being honest, in spite of your party affiliation!


John from Boston

I think Quayle gave her a run for her money, but you're absolutely right. In the onset, it looked like McCain made a great pick, but now it doesn't only look like he shot himself in the toe, it looks more like he blew his whole foot off.

[treetopovskaya]

i'm not the bias one here. i have no side. it bugs me tho when dems/libs want to play victim. i'm just here to let people know that their shit stinks too.

i never once claimed the reps were innocent.

let's talk about the rep media... what obama family member(s) have they gone after?

Actually, Tree, Colin Powell's wife is angry at the way the Republican Bush administration treated her husband. He just won't speak about it she said. As far as running for public office, especially POTUS, come on, both sides take shots and both sides (Rep. and Dem.) get hit UNFAIRLY at times. Neither side is innocent, except in your eyes.

[The_Noble_Cause]

this coming from a guy who can't debate without belittling & insulting. that's shows a lack of intelligence.
duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. (that's prolly the smartest thing i have seen you say so far!)

Yes, juvenile scat jokes and spitball-like airborne projectiles are my preferred art of war.
Cold hard facts would be wasted on your glazed over eyes.
I have yet to hear you raise a single point of the non-strawmen variety.

[Rick]

i'm not the bias one here. i have no side. it bugs me tho when dems/libs want to play victim. i'm just here to let people know that their shit stinks too.

You're constantly attacking the dems/libs. So it could only appear that you're on the other team. That's the way I see it anyway.

[treetopovskaya]

you must have me mistaken for a democrat.

this coming from a guy who can't debate without belittling & insulting. that's shows a lack of intelligence.
duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. (that's prolly the smartest thing i have seen you say so far!)

Yes, juvenile scat jokes and spitball-like airborne projectiles are my preferred art of war.
Cold hard facts would be wasted on your glazed over eyes.
I have yet to hear you raise a single point of the non-strawmen variety.

[treetopovskaya]

chelsea clinton? what decade are you talking about? }:C)

i hope you're talking about the dems/libs "nothing seems to be out of bounds"... they have targeted more people than the right. name please some people the reps have targeted?

you might want to get dean on this one. }:C)

i agree it would be a foolish move to target powell, but nothing seems to be out of bounds while we get to the close of this historic race.

for recent back handedness the robo phone calls about ayers.
in the not so recent past- the mass emails claiming obama was a muslim ( which wasn't from the mccaon camp but from the general republican camp).

as far as the dems targeting families? i disagree. sure there are most likely fringe idiots doing that, but when the news broke about the palin teenage pregnancy it obama himself that made it clear that families are off limits. mccain said some pretty harsh things regarding chelsea clinton. it becomes tit for tat at this stage. it has been the practice of karl rove to be negative and his protege is part of the mccain campaign.

[Don]

Drug addict Limbaugh has quickly turned on the man he always gave props to. Since Powell isn't willing to play Uncle Tom for McCain, he must be racist then.

[The_Noble_Cause]

chelsea clinton? what decade are you talking about? }:C)

I thought McCain's longstanding history as a Beltway fixture was part of his strength, now you mean to say only his recent behavior can fall under the microscope?
Can't have it both ways now...

[treetopovskaya]

i haven't heard mccain say anything about chelsea clinton. i'm questioning if this even happened.

i'm still waiting for dean's proof that mccain called his wife a c*nt.

chelsea clinton? what decade are you talking about? }:C)

I thought McCain's longstanding history as a Beltway fixture was part of his strength, now you mean to say only his recent behavior can fall under the microscope?
Can't have it both ways now...

[The_Noble_Cause]

i haven't heard mccain say anything about chelsea clinton. i'm questioning if this even happened.

Then maybe you should delve a little closer into a candidate before self-appointing yourself the title of campaign bus fluffer and mouthpiece.