The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[treetopovskaya]

The constant "playing the refs" by the right has led to certain instances such as the Couric one above, and much more frequently, cases where reporters live in fear of actually calling a lie a lie.
Instead they just invite a lib and conserv to come on and fight it out.
The right wing has effectively paralyzed what good journalism even means.

the failure of the journalists to practice good journalism is what caused them to be transparent. when they stopped asking hard questions to the democrats and never questioned outrageous statements. where is the questioning about the biden statement on sunday? all i hear is a recap of what biden said, not an analysis or a questioning about what it means to the american people. instead we get an analysis of what palin's appearance on SNL means.... ridiculous.

[strangegrey]

Im not so sure transparency is a bad thing, people...

Bias in one way or another isn't something I care to stomach to watch. It's ok to ask tough questions....but it shouldn't be self-serving. It needs to be expositional in nature or motive so that the viewer can make up his or her own mind....

[whirlwind]

Im not so sure transparency is a bad thing, people...

Bias in one way or another isn't something I care to stomach to watch. It's ok to ask tough questions....but it shouldn't be self-serving. It needs to be expositional in nature or motive so that the viewer can make up his or her own mind....

You should know that the gloves are off during an election year.

Not saying it's right, just saying...............

[The_Noble_Cause]

the failure of the journalists to practice good journalism is what caused them to be transparent. when they stopped asking hard questions to the democrats and never questioned outrageous statements. where is the questioning about the biden statement on sunday? all i hear is a recap of what biden said, not an analysis or a questioning about what it means to the american people. instead we get an analysis of what palin's appearance on SNL means.... ridiculous.

Which statement?
The one made at the fundraiser about Obama having "spine in his steel"?

[7 Wishes]

Wow, Tree. That you have the temerity to call yourself a "former Democrat" is astounding.

Most of Bush's former Cabinet, including McClelland, have publicly stated that if the media HAD done its job, the invasion of Iraq never would have proceeded because the lies and embellishments would have been relatively easy to expose.

Sorry, but yet again, you are dead wrong. The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein. That Clinton could have been impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, even though Bush broke the law, started an illegal war, and is a proven liar, and is still in office, is proof positive against your outdated notion of liberal media bias.

[Jana]

Amen, 7 Wishes. :

[strangegrey]

Sorry, but yet again, you are dead wrong. The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein. That Clinton could have been impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, even though Bush broke the law, started an illegal war, and is a proven liar, and is still in office, is proof positive against your outdated notion of liberal media bias.

While at times I've agreed with you, you are 100% spot on here...

[The_Noble_Cause]

The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein.

Even Woodward didn't turn against President Bush until his second term.
His first books about W are very positive.
The only person sounding the alarm was Phil Donahue (who got cancelled despite high ratings) and Olbermann.

[Tito]

The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein.

Even Woodward didn't turn against President Bush until his second term.
His first books about W are very positive.
The only person sounding the alarm was Phil Donahue (who got cancelled despite high ratings) and Olbermann.

Lou Dobbs too.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein.

Even Woodward didn't turn against President Bush until his second term.
His first books about W are very positive.
The only person sounding the alarm was Phil Donahue (who got cancelled despite high ratings) and Olbermann.

Lou Dobbs too.

On trade and immigration, yeh.

[Tito]

The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein.

Even Woodward didn't turn against President Bush until his second term.
His first books about W are very positive.
The only person sounding the alarm was Phil Donahue (who got cancelled despite high ratings) and Olbermann.

Lou Dobbs too.

On trade and immigration, yeh.

There were other things as well. I'm 100% positive of the timeline but I believe the War was one as well.

[conversationpc]

The media gave Bush a free pass for five years, and has essentially been flatlining in the pursuit of truth and justice since Woodward and Bernstein.

Even Woodward didn't turn against President Bush until his second term.
His first books about W are very positive.
The only person sounding the alarm was Phil Donahue (who got cancelled despite high ratings) and Olbermann.

Lou Dobbs too.

On trade and immigration, yeh.

Bush deserves all the bashing he can get on those two topics.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Clinton could have been impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, even though Bush broke the law, started an illegal war, and is a proven liar, and is still in office, is proof positive against your outdated notion of liberal media bias.

Nobody will touch impeachment because everyone in a position to do so is complicit in selling the war (namely, the media and Congress).

[Tito]

Clinton could have been impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, even though Bush broke the law, started an illegal war, and is a proven liar, and is still in office, is proof positive against your outdated notion of liberal media bias.

Nobody will touch impeachment because everyone in a position to do so is complicit in selling the war (namely, the media and Congress).

Not if Ron Paul is in charge my friend.

[Jana]

Tito, we don't agree on a lot politically, but I love Ron Paul. He was awesome in one of the Republican primary debates I saw where he got fed up with McCain and Romney arguing back and forth ad nauseum over the semantics of the word "timeline" and what Romney meant, and Ron Paul just told it like it was, that the real issue was how were they going to continue funding this war, etc, and they shouldn't be there. He was great.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not if Ron Paul is in charge my friend.

Ron Paul is in Congress right this second - Conyers and Kucinich have made efforts to get the ball rolling - what's stopping Paul?

[Tito]

Tito, we don't agree on a lot politically, but I love Ron Paul. He was awesome in one of the Republican primary debates I saw where he got fed up with McCain and Romney arguing back and forth ad nauseum over the the semantics of the word "timeline" and what Romney meant, and Ron Paul just told it like it was, that the real issue was how were they going to continue funding this war, etc, and they shouldn't be there. He was great.

Why don't we agree? What's your problem?

[RedWingFan]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?
Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

[7 Wishes]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?
Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

You're in an ever-dwindling group of people who still believes it was all justified.

Bush lied, the CIA complied, and those who voted FOR the war based upon the false pretexts (lies upon lies put forth by the Administration), who subsequently opposed it when the truth was revealed are NOT hypocrites. They, like the rest of us, were misled deliberately.

Even Bush's father thought attempting to remove Hussein was a huge mistake. Apparently W didn't read his dad's memoirs. Senior predicted the ensuing fiasco and sectarian turmoil back in 1993. Oh, and Wolfie was even against it at the time.

[Jana]

Tito, after BJG and I both said we had been for Hillary until the bitter end, maybe your response told me we were a little different politically:

"You two should have your heads examined. Hillary sucks too."

[Tito]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?
Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

You're in an ever-dwindling group of people who still believes it was all justified.

Bush lied, the CIA complied, and those who voted FOR the war based upon the false pretexts (lies upon lies put forth by the Administration), who subsequently opposed it when the truth was revealed are NOT hypocrites. They, like the rest of us, were misled deliberately.

Even Bush's father thought attempting to remove Hussein was a huge mistake. Apparently W didn't read his dad's memoirs. Senior predicted the ensuing fiasco and sectarian turmoil back in 1993. Oh, and Wolfie was even against it at the time.

Not to jump in, but I will . This is slightly off topic but when Obama said he opposed the war from the beginning and made a speech at an antiwar rally in Chicago in 2002, even though that is totally accurate, he is being inaccurate when he saids that was politically risky and unpopular. As far as the whole country and even maybe the whole state of Illinois, at that particular time, that may be true. But as far as his own state senate district that was hardly going out on a limb. His district is one of the most liberal or communist areas in the country. It was a pretty popular decision there and not going out on a limb as a matter of fact it was probably necessary politically.

[RedWingFan]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

You're in an ever-dwindling group of people who still believes it was all justified.

Bush lied, the CIA complied, and those who voted FOR the war based upon the false pretexts (lies upon lies put forth by the Administration), who subsequently opposed it when the truth was revealed are NOT hypocrites. They, like the rest of us, were misled deliberately.

Even Bush's father thought attempting to remove Hussein was a huge mistake. Apparently W didn't read his dad's memoirs. Senior predicted the ensuing fiasco and sectarian turmoil back in 1993. Oh, and Wolfie was even against it at the time.

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

[conversationpc]

Not to jump in, but I will . This is slightly off topic but when Obama said he opposed the war from the beginning and made a speech at an antiwar rally in Chicago in 2002, even though that is totally accurate, he is being inaccurate when he saids that was politically risky and unpopular. As far as the whole country and even maybe the whole state of Illinois, at that particular time, that may be true. But as far as his own state senate district that was hardly going out on a limb. His district is one of the most liberal or communist areas in the country. It was a pretty popular decision there and not going out on a limb as a matter of fact it was probably necessary politically.

Yeah, the whole "I was against the war from the beginning" doesn't mean a whole lot to me as far as politicians go unless they were in Congress at the time and voted for or against authorization for the war.

[RossValoryRocks]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

You're in an ever-dwindling group of people who still believes it was all justified.

Bush lied, the CIA complied, and those who voted FOR the war based upon the false pretexts (lies upon lies put forth by the Administration), who subsequently opposed it when the truth was revealed are NOT hypocrites. They, like the rest of us, were misled deliberately.

Even Bush's father thought attempting to remove Hussein was a huge mistake. Apparently W didn't read his dad's memoirs. Senior predicted the ensuing fiasco and sectarian turmoil back in 1993. Oh, and Wolfie was even against it at the time.

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

That is a consistent problem, TNC never answers questions (ok almost never)he just spews blather and obscenties toward people he is "debtating".

[The_Noble_Cause]

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

Since when have Conservatives put any stock in the United Nations?
As a casus belli, that's pretty weak.
The lies and testimonials are too many to recount.
The fact that the weapons inspectors on the ground found nothing and were prematurely pulled out is all one needs to know.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

You're in an ever-dwindling group of people who still believes it was all justified.

Bush lied, the CIA complied, and those who voted FOR the war based upon the false pretexts (lies upon lies put forth by the Administration), who subsequently opposed it when the truth was revealed are NOT hypocrites. They, like the rest of us, were misled deliberately.

Even Bush's father thought attempting to remove Hussein was a huge mistake. Apparently W didn't read his dad's memoirs. Senior predicted the ensuing fiasco and sectarian turmoil back in 1993. Oh, and Wolfie was even against it at the time.

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

That is a consistent problem, TNC never answers questions (ok almost never)he just spews blather and obscenties toward people he is "debtating".

I'm not even included in the exchange you're quoting. Try again.

[Tito]

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

Since when have Conservatives put any stock in the United Nations?

I REALLY hate to say this and no offense RWF but I got to agree with TNC on this one. F-ck the U.N.

[Don]

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

Since when have Conservatives put any stock in the United Nations?

I REALLY hate to say this and no offense RWF but I got to agree with TNC on this one. F-ck the U.N.

That's something we can agree on. Fuck the U.N.

[conversationpc]

Since when have Conservatives put any stock in the United Nations?
As a casus belli, that's pretty weak.
The lies and testimonials are too many to recount.
The fact that the weapons inspectors on the ground found nothing and were prematurely pulled out is all one needs to know.

As Devil's advocate...You're right, conservatives don't put any stock in the U.N. However, as much as some of you liberals trumpet that inept organization, you'd think going to war with Iraq would be acceptable since they violated so many resolutions which gave us the express right to go back to war with them. Don't libs put stock in the U.N. or is that irrelevant now?

[RossValoryRocks]

Bush broke the law, started an illegal war

Are you saying Saddam didn't violate any UN Resolutions that he agreed to so we'd stop kicking his ass in the Gulf War?Remember that war? That's the war all the libs were crying "if we'd have finished the job the first time...WAAAAHHH", before W went back in.

You're in an ever-dwindling group of people who still believes it was all justified.

Bush lied, the CIA complied, and those who voted FOR the war based upon the false pretexts (lies upon lies put forth by the Administration), who subsequently opposed it when the truth was revealed are NOT hypocrites. They, like the rest of us, were misled deliberately.

Even Bush's father thought attempting to remove Hussein was a huge mistake. Apparently W didn't read his dad's memoirs. Senior predicted the ensuing fiasco and sectarian turmoil back in 1993. Oh, and Wolfie was even against it at the time.

You typed all that crap and didn't answer a simple question. Try again. I highlighted it in red for you.

That is a consistent problem, TNC never answers questions (ok almost never)he just spews blather and obscenties toward people he is "debtating".

I'm not even included in the exchange you're quoting. Try again.

Forgot the "either"...Don't get me started on 7...we will be brawling if I do!