The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[nolippin]

Clinton hasn't been in office for eight years.

I admit that I'm no military expert, but when we bomb a country that is a declaration of war...correct? How can we just declare war on Syria or Pakistan without more authorization than claiming bad guys are in there? Doesn't there have to be some official declaration and/or vote as with Iraq?

You'd have to ask Bill Clinton about that, this is the way he did it and nary a word was said. W did the diplo route and has been crucified, so I imagine he said "fuck it, what are they gonna do vote me out of office next week."

[RossValoryRocks]

Obama is going to win, so I am not talking Presidential politics anymore. I have stated what I think is going to happen, but hope it doesn't and fervently hope that Barrack Obama is the best President in my life time.

But on the local politics front: Looks like that cocksucker Murtha is going down! YAY! I guess the "racists" and the "rednecks" that have sent him to Washington for all these years finally had enough! Acording to the poll I saw he is down 13 points! HAHAHA! Mr. Abscam is going down!

[RossValoryRocks]

Clinton hasn't been in office for eight years.

I admit that I'm no military expert, but when we bomb a country that is a declaration of war...correct? How can we just declare war on Syria or Pakistan without more authorization than claiming bad guys are in there? Doesn't there have to be some official declaration and/or vote as with Iraq?

You'd have to ask Bill Clinton about that, this is the way he did it and nary a word was said. W did the diplo route and has been crucified, so I imagine he said "fuck it, what are they gonna do vote me out of office next week."

Clinton did the same thing...and no one said a word...remember that little aspirin factory in the Sudan?

[nolippin]

...and I think that Clinton was equally wrong, but that still doesn't excuse our extending this war.

Clinton hasn't been in office for eight years.

I admit that I'm no military expert, but when we bomb a country that is a declaration of war...correct? How can we just declare war on Syria or Pakistan without more authorization than claiming bad guys are in there? Doesn't there have to be some official declaration and/or vote as with Iraq?

You'd have to ask Bill Clinton about that, this is the way he did it and nary a word was said. W did the diplo route and has been crucified, so I imagine he said "fuck it, what are they gonna do vote me out of office next week."

Clinton did the same thing...and no one said a word...remember that little aspirin factory in the Sudan?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Another prominent Conservative raises the white flag of defeat - plus a pretty good wrap up of why McCain lost.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... nt/outlook

[nolippin]

What do you call it when you move into yet another country?

...and I think that Clinton was equally wrong, but that still doesn't excuse our extending this war.

Extending?

[Rick]

What do you call it when you move into yet another country?

...and I think that Clinton was equally wrong, but that still doesn't excuse our extending this war.

Extending?

According to the right, we're not in a war. Although we keep our military there, attacking targets and terror suspects.

[Enigma869]

Effictively yes. Please show me, historically, where socialism has EVER worked and been successful and I'll be more than happy to re-examine my positions. Would you like me to point out socialims historic failures?

While I'm not a proponent of Socialism, don't we essentially have a form of it now, with all of these government takeovers? I mean you go to IndyMac's website now, and it says "IndyMac FEDERAL Bank"! I fail to see how that is going to be any different, regardless of which candidate gets elected. The damage has already been done, on a Republican's watch!


John from Boston

[S2M]

Well, repubs will claim that Bush inherited some shit from Clinton....so let's get THAT out of the way.

That's ALWAYS the defense.

And, OK, I'll give you that....BUT did the repubs do anything to rectify the supposed inheritence? Ummmm...nope.

[treetopovskaya]

mccain & obama action figures. }:C)

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/oct089002.html

[treetopovskaya]

there will be a lot of sore winners too. you can already see it.

the difference i see here & out irl is the hatred dems (or really anyone who's not a rep) have for reps... they hate mccain... they hate palin. they just hate. look how the dems talk to people here... they can't even be civil. if you don't see things as they do they can't debate without the personal insults.

I just bet Andrew can't wait til this election is over....so this thread can go the way of the dodo...

STM, we all know this thread won't die after the election...it will be full of the losing party accusing the winning party of "cheating" and the winning party accusing the losing party of being sore losers.....it will never die!

[Rick]

Of course it can. Apparently some bad guys took up residence in Syria, Syria wouldn't hand them over to us, so KABOOM go the bad guys.

Sounds alot like the foreign policy speech Obama gave concerning Pakistan, which, if I remember correctly, Conservatives like you excoriated him for.
Phony bastards.

Musharraf approved the drone raids in Pakistan.

Not phoney at all and thanks for helping me prove my point about Clinton and Bush. Clinton and Obama are the ones who would act unilaterally. Bush has always went the Diplo route, much to the dismay of a lot of Conservatives.

Obama advocated attacking the Tribal areas without Pak Gov approval. That is the difference. He pissed off a friend that we've been working to bring along into the 21st Century. We felt he was fucking up all the good that has been done with those reckless remarks.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801

'Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.'

__________________________________________________________________________

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 182955.ece

'Barack Obama, a leading Democrat candidate in the US presidential race, provoked anger yesterday by threatening to send troops into Pakistan to hunt down terrorists — even without permission from that country’s Government. '

__________________________________________________________________________

Obama's comments were not taken very well by the Pakistanis...

http://www.nowpublic.com/pakistan_slams ... _warning_1

'Pakistan accused Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama of “sheer ignorance” on Thursday for threatening to launch US military strikes against Al-Qaeda on Pakistani soil. “Such statements are being made out of sheer ignorance,” Pakistan's Minister of State for Information, Tariq Azeem, told AFP. “They are not fully apprised about the ground realities and not aware of the efforts by Pakistan.”“We have said before that we will not allow anyone to infringe our sovereignty,” Azeem said. '

Obama is all about sitting down and talking. McCain mocked him for it.

If Pakistan is harboring the motherfucker that brought forth 9/11, I certainly don't think we need to or should ask.

[The_Noble_Cause]

there will be a lot of sore winners too. you can already see it.

the difference i see here & out irl is the hatred dems (or really anyone who's not a rep) have for reps... they hate mccain... they hate palin. they just hate. look how the dems talk to people here... they can't even be civil. if you don't see things as they do they can't debate without the personal insults.

Fuck you Treebitch.
Your contempt runs so deep you disregard vast blocks of America society with wartime-like dehumanizing epithets of "the libs" and the "lib media."

[Enigma869]

Anchorage Daily News endorses Obama. I think what they said about Palin sums up exactly how I feel:

"Putting her one 72-year-old heartbeat from the leadership of the free world is just too risky at this time"

Palin is now the only one of the 4 candidates who can't seem to get her hometown newspaper's endorsement. Quite an accomplishment for "the most popular governor in the country"!

http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/567867.html


John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4TNt6I9vCY

[strangegrey]

Anchorage Daily News endorses Obama. I think what they said about Palin sums up exactly how I feel:

"Putting her one 72-year-old heartbeat from the leadership of the free world is just too risky at this time"

Palin is now the only one of the 4 candidates who can't seem to get her hometown newspaper's endorsement. Quite an accomplishment for "the most popular governor in the country"!


John from Boston

Wow, I guess that 80% approval rating is/was as real as Enron's net income from the Raptors....

[Voyager]

there will be a lot of sore winners too. you can already see it.

the difference i see here & out irl is the hatred dems (or really anyone who's not a rep) have for reps... they hate mccain... they hate palin. they just hate. look how the dems talk to people here... they can't even be civil. if you don't see things as they do they can't debate without the personal insults.

After what Bush has done to destroy our economy, our military, the citizens of Iraq, and our standing in the world - there is no reason to act civil towards anyone who supports his cause. If people do act hateful towards you for supporting what the Right Wing has done to our precious country, then so be it. It is well-deserving. The blame rests on Bush and anyone who supports him. That includes McCain, Palin, and their supporters. They are supporting and promoting the destruction of the United States. America is onto their game and they are going to give them the left foot of fellowship in the voting booth.

[Skylorde]

Obama advocated attacking the Tribal areas without Pak Gov approval. That is the difference. He pissed off a friend that we've been working to bring along into the 21st Century. We felt he was fucking up all the good that has been done with those reckless remarks.

Attack a sovereign nation?

Without UN approval?

THE HORROR! <grin>

Where have we heard that before?

[Jana]

Tree, all I ever see on here are your buzz word comebacks, libs, lib media, etc, ad nauseum. To the contrary, I've never read a post from you where you had anything remotely objective or open-minded to say about the Democractic candidates or party besides attack. A lot of Democrats on here have praised McCain, including me numerous times. That doesn't mean we can't state things about him we disagree with or the way he is running his campaign. I've praised Romney. Sarah Palin, she's a sorry pick. You won't get much nice out of me, true, on her, or Bush. That's a given.

[Voyager]

Tree, all I ever see on here are your buzz word comebacks, libs, lib media, etc, ad nauseum. To the contrary, I've never read a post from you where you had anything remotely objective or open-minded to say about the Democractic candidates or party besides attack.

You've noticed that too?

[Enigma869]

Tree, all I ever see on here are your buzz word comebacks, libs, lib media, etc, ad nauseum. To the contrary, I've never read a post from you where you had anything remotely objective or open-minded to say about the Democractic candidates or party besides attack. A lot of Democrats on here have praised McCain, including me numerous times. That doesn't mean we can't state things about him we disagree with or the way he is running his campaign. I've praised Romney. Sarah Palin, she's a sorry pick. You won't get much nice out of me, true, on her, or Bush. That's a given.

Tree is blinded by her Republican colored glasses. It's an astute observation by you to say that she hasn't been remotely objective about anything. Meanwhile, some of us have called Biden out for his completely MORONIC FDR appearing on TV comments, as well as McCain being a qualified candidate. Hey, look at the bright side...In another 10 days, both Tree Lady and Puppet Palin will finally go away


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Wow, I guess that 80% approval rating is/was as real as Enron's net income from the Raptors....

That sounds about right, Frank. I will NEVER believe that ANY elected official, ANYWHERE, has an approval rating of 80%. Even if a candidate is well liked, you can still find more than 20% to dissent! It violates every law of averages, to actually believe that Puppet Palin (or anyone else) has an approval rating of 80%. Both Clinton and Reagan were very popular presidents, and I suspect that neither of them had approval ratings anywhere near 80%.


John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

Obama advocated attacking the Tribal areas without Pak Gov approval. That is the difference. He pissed off a friend that we've been working to bring along into the 21st Century. We felt he was fucking up all the good that has been done with those reckless remarks.

Contrary to the right wing handwringing, Obama was serving up little more than current US policy.
Who do you think our air raids in Pakistan have been targeting all this time?
And stop parsing the issue, the Right wing hysterics did not stem from Obama "fucking up all the good."
I can point to posts on this very forum where posters where discussing Obama's "threat of invasion" - totally ignorant of the fact that we've already been taking out terrorists there.

[lights1961]

Anchorage Daily News endorses Obama. I think what they said about Palin sums up exactly how I feel:

"Putting her one 72-year-old heartbeat from the leadership of the free world is just too risky at this time"

Palin is now the only one of the 4 candidates who can't seem to get her hometown newspaper's endorsement. Quite an accomplishment for "the most popular governor in the country"!

http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/567867.html


John from Boston

that newspaper editor probably was liberal anyway and I bet if you went back to when she ran they endorsed her liberal conter part... so no surprise at all really...

BTW went to Palin yesterday in Des Moines... spreading the wealth... think 1976 with carter and what happened 3 years later... socialist economy will not work here...except for the people who dont work already....

[Jana]

Absolutely right, John. I was not happy with Biden's remarks a few weeks ago. What was he thinking? I don't look at my candidates through rose-colored glasses. But Biden redeemed himself in the Barbara West interview. He was fantastic, the man I admire. I live in Orlando, so I had seen Barbara West's interview with McCain a few weeks ago, and it was a lovefest with softball questions compared to her questioning of Biden. Talk about biased media. She never had intelligent follow-through questions. Just plowed ahead with what seemed like her gotcha questions without blinking with that stern look. But he handled her well. Palin would have folded with such an interview.

[strangegrey]

...A lot of Democrats on here have praised McCain, including me numerous times....

You're too kind...and I wish I had your grace.

Personally, I feel McCain is a lying scumbag, completely devoid of integrity. I've never seen a politician with more of a spineless, go with the prevailing political winds, lack of conviction, lack of support of his party, pigheadedness.

He's a douchebag...and he's clearly doing to the republican party the damage George W. Bush wasn't able to consumate in his final lame duck year as president. That fucking tumor-cheeked motherfucker is taking down the republican party with him....because he's too fucking pig-headed to realized he's clusterfucked this like an epileptic trying to frost a birthday cake.

I hope John DisDain goes back to arizona with his tail between his legs....he gets voted out of congress at the next possible turn...and he finds his rightful place next to Richard Nixon and George W. Bush as the worlds worst republicans to ever walk the face of this earth and fool people into thinking they were ever worthwhile people to vote for or more apropriately piss on and kick in the face as you stepped over their homeless, useless bodies on the way into the train station...


While I've been a strong proponent in watching the republican party fail miserably. I feel they've lost their way since reagan left office in 88...and it seems that the only way for things to get fixed is for the party to get sumarily thrown out of government all at the same time...It just pains me to watch John McCain oversee this fucking clusterfuck.

What kills me is that history will probably look favorably on John DisDain....for why, I just dont fucking know...because if George W. Bush did 50% of the damage to this party, John McCain did the other 50%.

They both should fucking burn in hell and be forced to shove their tongues into Madeleine Albright's dried up, toasted, crusty vagina for 23 hours out of ever day in hell...and the other hour, they get a break while they move to the hole next door...

[Enigma869]

that newspaper editor probably was liberal anyway and I bet if you went back to when she ran they endorsed her liberal conter part... so no surprise at all really...

BTW went to Palin yesterday in Des Moines... spreading the wealth... think 1976 with carter and what happened 3 years later... socialist economy will not work here...except for the people who dont work already....

What's your point? The Chicago Tribune has NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER endorsed a Democratic candidate for President, and they've been around a hell of a lot longer than the entire state of Alaska! Even they endorsed their hometown candidate! As for the whole Socialism thing...As I said earlier, our government has already jumped that shark, so I'm not really sure what difference it's going to make, regardless of which candidate wins this election. I was not a fan of Jimmy Carter, at all. In fact, until W., I thought Carter was the worst president of my lifetime. Having said that, I honestly am not sure how things could possibly get any worse than they are. Republicans are talking like we have this great economy, and that everything is so prosperous. In spite of how "sound the fundamentals of the economy" are, according to McCain, it doesn't change what is actually happening!


Believe it or not, there are many of us (myself included) who are not claiming that Obama is going to be this great president. At this point, it's a matter of Americans looking to shake things up, because the status quo is failing, MISERABLY! When things get this bad, the public, at large, is much more apt to "roll the dice". While that may not always be the most intelligent thing to do, most Americans don't believe it's possible for things to get any worse than they are!

John from Boston

[Jana]

Frank, now tell me how you really feel. Don't sugarcoat it this time.

[Enigma869]

You're too kind...and I wish I had your grace.

Personally, I feel McCain is a lying scumbag, completely devoid of integrity. I've never seen a politician with more of a spineless, go with the prevailing political winds, lack of conviction, lack of support of his party, pigheadedness.

He's a douchebag...and he's clearly doing to the republican party the damage George W. Bush wasn't able to consumate in his final lame duck year as president. That fucking tumor-cheeked motherfucker is taking down the republican party with him....because he's too fucking pig-headed to realized he's clusterfucked this like an epileptic trying to frost a birthday cake.

I hope John DisDain goes back to arizona with his tail between his legs....he gets voted out of congress at the next possible turn...and he finds his rightful place next to Richard Nixon and George W. Bush as the worlds worst republicans to ever walk the face of this earth and fool people into thinking they were ever worthwhile people to vote for or more apropriately piss on and kick in the face as you stepped over their homeless, useless bodies on the way into the train station...


While I've been a strong proponent in watching the republican party fail miserably. I feel they've lost their way since reagan left office in 88...and it seems that the only way for things to get fixed is for the party to get sumarily thrown out of government all at the same time...It just pains me to watch John McCain oversee this fucking clusterfuck.

What kills me is that history will probably look favorably on John DisDain....for why, I just dont fucking know...because if George W. Bush did 50% of the damage to this party, John McCain did the other 50%.

They both should fucking burn in hell and be forced to shove their tongues into Madeleine Albright's dried up, toasted, crusty vagina for 23 hours out of ever day in hell...and the other hour, they get a break while they move to the hole next door...

In spite of our differences, politically, and the fact that Boston and New York despise each other, Frank will forever be my favorite New Yorker, after the late, great George Carlin! Nobody can ever move ahead of the brilliant Carlin! This post is just one more reason I respect the hell out of you, Frank. You tell it like it is, whether it's favorable to your party, or not. At least when you stick up for your party, you'll always have credibility with me!


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

In spite of our differences, politically, and the fact that Boston and New York despise each other, Frank will forever be my favorite New Yorker, after the late, great George Carlin! Nobody can ever move ahead of the brilliant Carlin! This post is just one more reason I respect the hell out of you, Frank. You tell it like it is, whether it's favorable to your party, or not. At least when you stick up for your party, you'll always have credibility with me!

With all due respect to strangegrey and every other regular in this thread, there is no one here who doesn't tell it like it is.

BTW, I'm a Red Sox fan as well, so you have to, by default, cut me some slack.