The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[7 Wishes]

Please, do try to refute this...if you do, you'll be contradicting the scientifically proven hypothesis that 95% of the world's scientists stand behind...

Give me a fucking break.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I simply can't believe someone would waste the energy politicizing something like the sun.
I'll debate kitchen table domestic issues from what I've read, but I'm not a climatologist, and I don't pretend to be.
Savage, Limbaugh, Beck...all these guys seem to have the answers for everything.

[treetopovskaya]

wishes... what you talking bout?

global warming? i believe... you be preaching to the choir. }:C)

i don't belong to no party. i refuse!!

Good Lord, guys...and tree...

Stop buying EVERYTHING your party tells you to.

You're just dead, 100% completely wrong on this...

[7 Wishes]

OK...sorry...I stand corrected.

P.S. I thought you were a Federalist!

[treetopovskaya]

i'm green... light green... i could prolly do a lot better. }:C)

[7 Wishes]

You know, I think that when it comes to politics, I think you're full of crap...but otherwise, you've proven to be a wonderful, kind, open-minded person.

Just wanted to say that...

[Arkansas]

Tree, if those words were said to you, then I feel the same way. There's certain sexually derogatory words that I don't feel need to be addressed to the females on this thread. Let the guys have at each other. Of course, I've been called a bitch before, just maybe not on here. Personally I would rather be called a bitch on here than stupid.

B!tch, w#ore, whatever...I am both and more.
I am 100% MAN...so what.
Words are just words, especially on the internet.

Sticks and stones...get over it...since about the 4th grade already...



later~

[conversationpc]

Please, do try to refute this...if you do, you'll be contradicting the scientifically proven hypothesis that 95% of the world's scientists stand behind...

Give me a fucking break.

Give me a break...I've brought up points before that you said you were going to get back to me on and you never did. Why the hell do you expect anyone to believe you now?

[conversationpc]

Whoops, fellas! I know you're all brilliant amateur scientists in your own right, but the REST of the world thinks you're full of shit:

With the July 2007 release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate.[46]

Apparently, you're not all that brilliant, either...

The new statement formally accepts human activity as at least one contributor to carbon dioxide increase, but does not confirm its link to climate change, saying its members are "divided on the degree of influence that anthropogenic CO2 has" on climate. AAPG also stated support for "research to narrow probabilistic ranges on the effect of anthropogenic CO2 on global climate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_A ... ite_note-9

AAPG's own document also goes on to say...

Geologists study the history of the earth and realize [b]climate has changed often in the past due to natural causes. The Earth’s climate naturally varies constantly, in both directions, at varying rates, and on many scales. In recent decades global temperatures have risen. Yet, our planet has been far warmer and cooler than today many times in the geologic past, including the past 10,000 years.

Certain climate simulation models predict that the warming trend will continue, as reported through NAS, AGU, AAAS, and AMS. AAPG respects these scientific opinions but wants to add that the current climate warming projections could fall within well-documented natural variations in past climate and observed temperature data. These data do not necessarily support the maximum case scenarios forecast in some models. To be predictive, any model of future climate should also accurately model known climate and greenhouse gas variations recorded in the geologic history of the past 200,000 years.

http://dpa.aapg.org/gac/statements/climatechange.pdf

Please do some actual research before you continue spouting off how everyone who doesn't agree with you is "just dead, 100% completely wrong on this."

[Skylorde]

This is a slam-dunk...

In preparation for the 34th G8 summit, the national science academies of the G8+5 nations issued a declaration reiterating the position of the 2005 joint science academies’ statement, and reaffirming “that climate change is happening and that anthropogenic warming is influencing many physical and biological systems.” Among other actions, the declaration urges all nations to “(t)ake appropriate economic and policy measures to accelerate transition to a low carbon society and to encourage and effect changes in individual and national behaviour.”[10]

The thirteen signatories were the national science academies of Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Italy, India, Japan, Mexico, Russia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

31,072 American scientists signed a petition rejecting the Kyoto protocol

For every article you post supporting global warming, I can post one that refutes global warming. All the current data available is inconclusive in determining with absolute fact the reason the planet has warmed. The downturn of global temperatures in the past few years makes it difficult for chicken littles' like Al Gore to keep peddling his carbon credit company (Gee, see any conflict of interest?)

If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to any opposing point of view that is supported by empirical data and fact (where have we seen that lately?) then be my guest.

[Saint John]

if you do, you'll be contradicting the scientifically proven hypothesis that 95% of the world's scientists stand behind...

Didn't 95% of the world once think the world was flat?

[strangegrey]

7, while I'm neither green nor not green, you do realize that it's taken well over 20 years to strong arm the science community to 'come around' on this topic? Like I said, I'm not ready to get on board or not get on board with global warming......however, the skeptic in me finds it hard to believe that global warming...something a dolt like Al Gore could clearly see was happening as far back as the 70s ( )...took the rest of the scientific community another 20-30 years before they finally reached concensus (remember, concensus is the absense of leadership)

The point I'm trying to make, is that the (loosely termed) coalition of 95% of the scientific community backing you belief on global warming, is something that took 20-30 years to actually generate....that's not a vote of confidence in my book. It suggests that alot of those opinions were bought and paid for. I mean, hell...for a topic this important, wouldn't you think the greatest scientific minds would rush right to the table, grab the pen and go 'where do I sign?'

You seem to be cornerstoning your entire argument that you've got a irrefutable position based on a scientific concensus that was generated over a period of 20-30 years. So, by your logic....5-10 years ago, the environmentalist movement *didnt* have the scientific muscle you now claim. What were your reasons then?


The fact is, the environmentalist movement is clearly motivated through political/world control issues...tied into this movement, through the back door, is motivation to control of the world oil supply (i.e. who can pump oil, who cant).

For the environmentalist movement to have purely philanthropic intentions, it needs to release it's stanglehold on driving political policy not directly related to its goals. The problem with this...and I'm wondering out loud here...is if that were to happen, the financial/political muscle behind the environmentalist movement would cease to exist. Without that financial muscle, would 95% of the world's scientists (most of whom didn't 'buy' into this for a LONG time) step away from the table....or more to the point, would they have ever stepped to the table?

These are valid questions that need to be addressed.

...Im all for doing my part. I recycle, I drive a clean air vehicle, I have significantly reduced my fuel expenditures over the past few years, and I buy products that are biodegradable. But this movement is FAR to politicized for me to buy into it's purely wholistic, philanthropic chest beatings. That needs to be distilled from the process before it has any true merit with me....

[Skylorde]

Greenland Ice Core Analysis Shows Drastic Climate Change Near End Of Last Ice Age

Hmm, let me speculate.

The earth warmed.

No cars.

No industry.

1/10th of 1% of the current population of the planet.

Surely this wasn't a natural occurrence. Maybe a global outbreak of gastrointestinalitis?

[Skylorde]

Didn't 95% of the world once think the world was flat?

[conversationpc]

Hey guys, what's the deal with Obama's tax plan lately? At one point, he was saying anyone under $250,000 would receive a tax "cut". Then he started saying anyone under $200,000. Then Biden the other day was saying $150,000. Does it sound to anyone else like they are preparing for not cutting ANYONE'S taxes once Obama is elected?

[Behshad]

Hey guys, what's the deal with Obama's tax plan lately? At one point, he was saying anyone under $250,000 would receive a tax "cut". Then he started saying anyone under $200,000. Then Biden the other day was saying $150,000. Does it sound to anyone else like they are preparing for not cutting ANYONE'S taxes once Obama is elected?

Welcome to the world of politics and politicians , Dave .

[conversationpc]

Hey guys, what's the deal with Obama's tax plan lately? At one point, he was saying anyone under $250,000 would receive a tax "cut". Then he started saying anyone under $200,000. Then Biden the other day was saying $150,000. Does it sound to anyone else like they are preparing for not cutting ANYONE'S taxes once Obama is elected?

Welcome to the world of politics and politicians , Dave .

Thanks for bringing those hot chicks into this thread.

[strangegrey]

Hey guys, what's the deal with Obama's tax plan lately? At one point, he was saying anyone under $250,000 would receive a tax "cut". Then he started saying anyone under $200,000. Then Biden the other day was saying $150,000. Does it sound to anyone else like they are preparing for not cutting ANYONE'S taxes once Obama is elected?

The fact that McCain isn't sticking this to Obama's ass and pointing it out at every turn has me wonder if McCain is going to vote for Obama in the coming election.

Really. There's *good* issues to attack Obama with....that McCain choses to avoid, by sticking with generalistic, stupid labels like "socialist" and "redistributer"

I don't understand this. The fact that Obama has officially changed his position on taxation has GOT to be something that McCain can ride Obama long and hard on....but he choses to ride Joe the Plumber right into a fucking record deal??



Is it too much to ask for a republican candidate that isn't a fucking complete idiot?

[Saint John]

Hey guys, what's the deal with Obama's tax plan lately? At one point, he was saying anyone under $250,000 would receive a tax "cut". Then he started saying anyone under $200,000. Then Biden the other day was saying $150,000. Does it sound to anyone else like they are preparing for not cutting ANYONE'S taxes once Obama is elected?

The fact that McCain isn't sticking this to Obama's ass and pointing it out at every turn has me wonder if McCain is going to vote for Obama in the coming election.

Really. There's *good* issues to attack Obama with....that McCain choses to avoid, by sticking with generalistic, stupid labels like "socialist" and "redistributer"

I don't understand this. The fact that Obama has officially changed his position on taxation has GOT to be something that McCain can ride Obama long and hard on....but he choses to ride Joe the Plumber right into a fucking record deal??



Is it too much to ask for a republican candidate that isn't a fucking complete idiot?

McCain has been hammering this issue and so has Palin. You think you're going to see it on the news, Frank? Fox has been all over it. Too bad they're the only ones.

[strangegrey]

McCain has been hammering this issue and so has Palin. You think you're going to see it on the news, Frank? Fox has been all over it. Too bad they're the only ones.

Um, this issue is less than 12 hours old. He's not hammering it. He needs to address in specifics that Obama has specifically changed his plan 6 days before Nov 4....

The problem with McCain is that he speaks in dumbed down generics. He has been doing this his entire political campaign...I guess that's the old Bush advisors coming into play here.

Regardless, I'm sick of hearing about Joe the plumber and Joe six pack....in fable-like contexts. I want to hear specifics from mccain on why his msg is better....he has, to date, NOT done that. and thats one of the main reasons Obama is still kicking his ass...

[RossValoryRocks]

McCain has been hammering this issue and so has Palin. You think you're going to see it on the news, Frank? Fox has been all over it. Too bad they're the only ones.

Um, this issue is less than 12 hours old. He's not hammering it. He needs to address in specifics that Obama has specifically changed his plan 6 days before Nov 4....

The problem with McCain is that he speaks in dumbed down generics. He has been doing this his entire political campaign...I guess that's the old Bush advisors coming into play here.

Regardless, I'm sick of hearing about Joe the plumber and Joe six pack....in fable-like contexts. I want to hear specifics from mccain on why his msg is better....he has, to date, NOT done that. and thats one of the main reasons Obama is still kicking his ass...

You know I am not given to conspiracy theories...but I am thinking that the Republicans have decided they don't want to win...let the Democrats control things awhile and take all the blame, and the republicans can come in like the proverbial white knights and rescue the USA in 2012...

[strangegrey]

You know I am not given to conspiracy theories...but I am thinking that the Republicans have decided they don't want to win...let the Democrats control things awhile and take all the blame, and the republicans can come in like the proverbial white knights and rescue the USA in 2012...

well, for that to happen, they have to at least *appear* like their fighting during this go around, or they're going to turn away alot of people. From my perspective, it doesn't even seem like they're doing that.

I dont mean to sound like a wednesday morning QB here (even though it's not next wednesday yet) I really feel you can fill a stadium with people that would have run his campaign better than who he's got doing it...

[Saint John]

Um, this issue is less than 12 hours old. He's not hammering it.

I saw him reference it during his interview with Sean Hannity 2 days ago and Hannity hammered at it again yesterday. Maybe the latest step down of $150,000 wasn't in there (I can't remember), but McCain referenced it more than once as has Palin. Palin was really hammering away at this supposed LA Times tape last night. But of course only Fox aired a segment of it. Everyone else was airing the prelude to the terrorist wannabe and his new found friendship with Billbilly Clinton. Man, I really want to see if it's true that Obama toasted with a bunch of radical fucks that were calling for an end to Israel. It's also amazing that Clinton could stand on a stage with that long-legged freak after the way treated Hillary in the primary.

[Behshad]

McCain has been hammering this issue and so has Palin. You think you're going to see it on the news, Frank? Fox has been all over it. Too bad they're the only ones.

Um, this issue is less than 12 hours old. He's not hammering it. He needs to address in specifics that Obama has specifically changed his plan 6 days before Nov 4....

The problem with McCain is that he speaks in dumbed down generics. He has been doing this his entire political campaign...I guess that's the old Bush advisors coming into play here.

Regardless, I'm sick of hearing about Joe the plumber and Joe six pack....in fable-like contexts. I want to hear specifics from mccain on why his msg is better....he has, to date, NOT done that. and thats one of the main reasons Obama is still kicking his ass...

You know I am not given to conspiracy theories...but I am thinking that the Republicans have decided they don't want to win...let the Democrats control things awhile and take all the blame, and the republicans can come in like the proverbial white knights and rescue the USA in 2012...

You mean just like they did back in 2000 ?

[strangegrey]

Um, this issue is less than 12 hours old. He's not hammering it.

I saw him reference it during his interview with Sean Hannity 2 days ago and Hannity hammered at it again yesterday. Maybe the latest step down of $150,000 wasn't in there (I can't remember), but McCain referenced it more than once as has Palin. Palin was really hammering away at this supposed LA Times tape last night. But of course only Fox aired a segment of it. Everyone else was airing the prelude to the terrorist wannabe and his new found friendship with Billbilly Clinton. Man, I really want to see if it's true that Obama toasted with a bunch of radical fucks that were calling for an end to Israel. It's also amazing that Clinton could stand on a stage with that long-legged freak after the way treated Hillary in the primary.

well, regardless of what you're referring to, I still stand by my original statement...because what you're referring to is not 'hammering it'. Mentioning it a few times on fox news isn't hammering shit.

It should be the cornerstone of his final push right now. Here's a guy, technically going back on his campaign promises...BEFORE election day...and McCain is still worried about labels like "Socialist" and "Joe the Plumber."

If he wants to prove he's not George W. Bush....he's doing a fucking awful job of it....

[Enigma869]

The fact that McCain isn't sticking this to Obama's ass and pointing it out at every turn has me wonder if McCain is going to vote for Obama in the coming election.

Really. There's *good* issues to attack Obama with....that McCain choses to avoid, by sticking with generalistic, stupid labels like "socialist" and "redistributer"

I don't understand this. The fact that Obama has officially changed his position on taxation has GOT to be something that McCain can ride Obama long and hard on....but he choses to ride Joe the Plumber right into a fucking record deal??



Is it too much to ask for a republican candidate that isn't a fucking complete idiot?

McCain told Larry King last night that he absolutely does not believe that Obama is a Socialist. I think McCain's problem is that every stump speech he gives, he has the same regurgitated message of "Fight, Fight, Fight", and he's simply not getting his message across. While I'm not the political expert that some are, I believe this has been a horrendously run campaign by McCain. The infighting that has developed between McCain staffers and McCain's pick for VP is simply embarrassing. I'm sure McCain is completely embarrassed that this has become public knowledge. I also think that even the Obama detractors would have to admit that the guy has run a very intelligent campaign (The infomercial, notwithstanding). I think the McCain campaign is really starting to show signs of desperation, raising a 6 month old L.A. Times article, which CNN said had no merit, whatsoever. If McCain could stick to the issues and stop trying to convince Americans that Obama is a terrorist in disguise, he probably wouldn't feel so desperate!


John from Boston

[Voyager]

Every time I hear McCain speaking on the TV or radio, I have to turn it off. He has got to be the most boring, lifeless, miserable old fuck I have ever heard. If I had to choose between listening to him or W, I would rather listen to W. That is bad!!!

[Tito]

Not sure about the Reagan Democrats, the amnesty plan probably killed that for him. Had he been a true conservative, he would have those voters no problem.

Amusing, considering Reagan pushed for amnesty with the Immigration Control Act.

Reagan admited he screwed up after that.

[bluejeangirl76]

If I had to choose between listening to him or W, I would rather listen to W. That is bad!!!

At least W provides a certain entertainment factor.
You just know he's gonna say something stupid as hell and its kinda fun to wait for it.

McCain... Zzzzzz.

[RossValoryRocks]

McCain has been hammering this issue and so has Palin. You think you're going to see it on the news, Frank? Fox has been all over it. Too bad they're the only ones.

Um, this issue is less than 12 hours old. He's not hammering it. He needs to address in specifics that Obama has specifically changed his plan 6 days before Nov 4....

The problem with McCain is that he speaks in dumbed down generics. He has been doing this his entire political campaign...I guess that's the old Bush advisors coming into play here.

Regardless, I'm sick of hearing about Joe the plumber and Joe six pack....in fable-like contexts. I want to hear specifics from mccain on why his msg is better....he has, to date, NOT done that. and thats one of the main reasons Obama is still kicking his ass...

You know I am not given to conspiracy theories...but I am thinking that the Republicans have decided they don't want to win...let the Democrats control things awhile and take all the blame, and the republicans can come in like the proverbial white knights and rescue the USA in 2012...

You mean just like they did back in 2000 ?

Ahhh my Islamofacist friend is back!! YAY BESHAD! (Hey we need to talk about a TSO get together! PM me!)...Bush is about as truly Republican as Ted Kennedy.

If it takes losing this election to drive the Republicans back to their conservative roots on things like fiscal discipline and smaller government then so be it.

Bush has been an absysmal failure when it comes to smaller government and fiscal responsibility, among others. Though when we look back he may seem to be the tightwad of the century compared to Obama and the Pelosi/Reid congress.

If not then I hope the Libertarians come to the fore and the Grand Old Party is swept away.