The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:14 am

Enigma869 wrote:"8 Nasty Campaign Rumors":

Mainstream news organizations have either debunked or found no evidence to support six nasty rumors about John McCain and Barack Obama that have surfaced during the presidential race. Take, for example, the story that Barack Obama was not born in the U.S. His birth certificate proves Obama, shown here as a toddler with mom Ann Dunham, was born in Hawaii.

Another rumor claims that in 1992, Arizona Sen. John McCain directed a particularly nasty slur at his wife, Cindy. The story comes from a book called "The Real McCain," by Cliff Schecter, a Democratic political consultant. He cites as sources three anonymous Arizona reporters who supposedly heard the nasty word. But no other reporter has been able to replicate Schecter's sourcing.

Rumor has it there's a tape featuring Michelle Obama, wife of the Democratic candidate, saying nasty things about white people and referring to them as "whitey." But the former CIA operative who kept pushing this story also kept changing his description of his sources for it. No such tape has ever surfaced. Michelle Obama has directly denied using the term.

Liberal partisans have blamed McCain, as a young Navy pilot, for crashing as many as five planes, including one that supposedly led to the 1967 disaster on the USS Forrestal, where an explosion and fire killed 134 sailors. The claim is that McCain could have sparked the blast by engaging in a risky maneuver. But no contemporary investigations have suggested McCain could have played any role in the tragedy.

Another scurrilous story maintained Obama funneled money to former Kenyan opposition leader Raila Odinga, now the country's prime minister. The two men purportedly are conspiring to institute Muslim law in Kenya -- even though both are Christians. The proof of all this was supposed to be in an e-mail from Obama. The message, however, was clearly not written by a native English speaker.

Yet another rumor maintains McCain insulted fellow vacationers during a trip to Fiji before his first run for president. Among his supposed mean deeds: forcing people to listen to him read aloud from the works of William Faulkner. The source of the story was an e-mail that has been attributed to two different women. The editor of the left-wing newsletter CounterPunch said he concluded "it's a phony."


It's over the top on BOTH sides.
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:16 am

stu and dan, please be so kind to point out your welfare theory. i've done searches, read a few different takes on his plan and find nothing to support your claims.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:18 am

Lula wrote: people who are afraid of hard work need to go away.

That would all but eliminate the democratic base. The vast majority of extremely poor people have historically voted democratic and they're...still poor!!! :lol: Might be time to throw those welfare checks away, get off your asses and go to work!!!

Lula wrote: where is there an 'an up the welfare benefits' in obama's tax plan?

40% of people that pay zero taxes are slated to receive our tax dollars under the guise of "redistributing wealth." Yeah, from people that work to people that don't!!! Here's his plan: "In real numbers, 60.7 million people who have no tax burden at all will receive refunds from Obama, while only 33.8 million people, who pay approximately 40 percent of income taxes, will get any kind of refund."
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:19 am

redistributing wealth :roll: okay, give me the link to the quote's home.
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:21 am

Lula wrote:stu and dan, please be so kind to point out your welfare theory. i've done searches, read a few different takes on his plan and find nothing to support your claims.


There are millions of those who pay no income taxes who will receive a tax rebate at the expense of those who do pay in.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:21 am

Additionally: "Twenty percent of taxpayers, who pay 87.5 percent of total income taxes, will actually see after-tax income decline under Obama by nearly two percent, according to the Center."
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:30 am

you conservatives get so riled up over anything that even has the slightest appearance of socialism. i'm shocked you guys are able to function with the socialist bush in office. maybe it's ok for the rich to get a bail out to keep their piles of loot, but when it is for the little guy- not so fast. i mean no offense as i seemingly question your interpretations of various sources and readings, but please share said sources so that i may also have a go at interpretation.... i apologize for my damn independent thinking and inability to locate your sources on my own searches.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:30 am

Lula wrote: give me the link to the quote's home.
Pay attention...the long-legged freak in your signature has been outlining the plan for months. Everyone knows this. It's not a big secret!!! :lol:
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:32 am

Saint John wrote:
Lula wrote: give me the link to the quote's home.
Pay attention...the long-legged freak in your signature has been outlining the plan for months. Everyone knows this. It's not a big secret!!! :lol:


lol :lol:
i do pay attention, but it is only 8:30 and i'm posting with blueberries, apples, bananas, and i think some poop up to my elbows :shock:
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:35 am

Lula wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Lula wrote: give me the link to the quote's home.
Pay attention...the long-legged freak in your signature has been outlining the plan for months. Everyone knows this. It's not a big secret!!! :lol:


lol :lol:
i do pay attention, but it is only 8:30 and i'm posting with blueberries, apples, bananas, and i think some poop up to my elbows :shock:
Oh man. Dean shit his pants again, huh? :lol: :twisted: :P
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:39 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Lula wrote:redistributing wealth :roll: okay, give me the link to the quote's home.


Oh shit Lula come on. Obama said it hisownself to Joe the Plumber. SJ is giving you the truth.


lol, yeah he sure did say it :roll:

spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:40 am

Fact Finder wrote:You people will vote for Socialism but you sure as shit hate being called as such. Admit what you want and at least be honest about it.

I admit to being as Obama so artfully put it, "selfish."


if obama is a socialist so is bush. plain and simple. i'm a bleeding heart liberal commie :lol: :roll:
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:45 am

Lula wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
Lula wrote:redistributing wealth :roll: okay, give me the link to the quote's home.


Oh shit Lula come on. Obama said it hisownself to Joe the Plumber. SJ is giving you the truth.


lol, yeah he sure did say it :roll:

spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.
We could easily put an end to all of this and implement a flat tax. I say 20% across the board. For every dollar any American makes 20% would go to the government, regardless of income. That is fair.
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:46 am

Lula wrote:spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.


Call it what you will but it's still giving money to those who don't pay income taxes in the first place.
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:47 am

Saint John wrote:We could easily put an end to all of this and implement a flat tax. I say 20% across the board. For every dollar any American makes 20% would go to the government, regardless of income. That is fair.


Better yet, institute a consumption tax like the Fair Tax. Then EVERYONE, including those here illegally will HAVE to pay taxes whenever they purchase goods or services.
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Postby ProgRocker53 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:48 am

I'm too persuasive for my own good. I feel powerful.

I've managed to convince 4 people at work that weren't going to vote, to vote for McCain. We've kinda formed an "accountability squad" and since we all live in the same precinct, we're going to the polls together to make sure the job gets done.

God, I hope this is going on all over the nation.
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:50 am

conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.


Call it what you will but it's still giving money to those who don't pay income taxes in the first place.


obama is not creating a welfare class, that has existed since the depression.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:53 am

Lula wrote:obama is not creating a welfare class, that has existed since the depression.

"The Tax Policy Center estimates that Obama’s spending proposals will be so large that they effectively eliminate income taxes for 15 million households, increasing the percentage of households that pay no taxes from 37.8 percent to 48.1 percent."
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:54 am

Lula wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.


Call it what you will but it's still giving money to those who don't pay income taxes in the first place.


obama is not creating a welfare class, that has existed since the depression.


I didn't say he was. I'll say it again...HE'S TAKING MONEY FROM THOSE WHO DO PAY INCOME TAX AND GIVING IT TO THOSE WHO DON'T. For that matter, some of McCain's policies would do nearly the same thing. Neither one is acceptable, in my opinion.
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:56 am

don't yell at me dave, it scares me :lol:

okay boys, gotta give my sweet pea a bath and get him ready for a day with his aunties. always a pleasure 8)
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:58 am

Lula wrote:don't yell at me dave, it scares me :lol:

okay boys, gotta give my sweet pea a bath and get him ready for a day with his aunties. always a pleasure 8)


Don't let him piss in the water. :lol:
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Postby Ehwmatt » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:27 am

Fact Finder wrote:
ProgRocker53 wrote:I'm too persuasive for my own good. I feel powerful.

I've managed to convince 4 people at work that weren't going to vote, to vote for McCain. We've kinda formed an "accountability squad" and since we all live in the same precinct, we're going to the polls together to make sure the job gets done.

God, I hope this is going on all over the nation.


Good for you Prog. Last night I think I finally convinced my 23 y/o son to either vote McCain or not vote at all..he was an O supporter for months. Still working on my daughter, she finally broke up with the boyfriend who was pushing her towards O, so I still have 3 days to convince her. My other daughter lives in England and though she applied, she never received her absentee ballot which would have gone for O. So at least 2 maybe 3 former O votes are now off the tally.


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Postby Skylorde » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:28 am

Lula wrote:if obama is a socialist so is bush. plain and simple. i'm a bleeding heart liberal commie :lol: :roll:


100% accurate!

Well, maybe not a commie. Ok 95% accurate :)
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Postby Skylorde » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:29 am

conversationpc wrote:Call it what you will but it's still giving money to those who don't pay income taxes in the first place.


Not only do some of them NOT pay income tax, they get a form of welfare in the form of EIC (earned income credit)
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Postby strangegrey » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:42 am

Saint John wrote:
Lula wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
Lula wrote:redistributing wealth :roll: okay, give me the link to the quote's home.


Oh shit Lula come on. Obama said it hisownself to Joe the Plumber. SJ is giving you the truth.


lol, yeah he sure did say it :roll:

spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.
We could easily put an end to all of this and implement a flat tax. I say 20% across the board. For every dollar any American makes 20% would go to the government, regardless of income. That is fair.


Actually it's not...

Listen...I'm not too far off the beaten republican path....but even *I* know that 20% of ones income hits some people FAR differently than others. If you make 40k a year and you need every fucking penny of it to pay for rent, food and transportation...getting smacked for 8k is going to hurt something fierce.

Now, let's take that same scenario, but you make 400k a year....getting smacked for 80k, while still being able to bank 100k a year after you spend 220k a year on a sizable mortgage, food, 2 cars, a flat screen tv, dinner out twice a week, etc...

The point I'm trying to make is that a flat tax is *not* fair...it's actually, rather unfair.


Let's also make something very clear. A progessive tax creates an economy stabilization effect. When the economy is booming and you get more money, you ge thit a tad harder....allowing the economy to gear back to stave off inflation. The reverse is true. Obviously, this kind of shit gets thrown out the window when our government starts throwing around freshly printing money and dangerously lowering interest rates.....but the economic theory about a progressive tax is SOUND and HEALTHY policy.


What most people *fail* to realize, when they complain about the progressive tax system....is that it's very improperly indexed right now. The assumption that a person making 250k (or now, it's 150k or 200k :roll: ) a year is an ultra rich person....is fucking assinine.

Back in 1987...the last time the Internal Revenue Code was significantly rewriten, the spread between poverty, middle class, upper class and ultra rich was far smaller than it is now. The reason, is the effect of increased cost of living and decreasing dollar value, creating a large spectrum of spread.

Regardless...the point I'm making is that a progressive tax plan, when implemented *properly* is a good thing. It allows people to owe less when they meet harder times....and contribute a little more when things get real good.

A flat tax would likely drive anyone in the middle class into poverty, very quickly. It would also allow people who are ultra rich to get richer on the backs of people who are taking a tax burden they can't handle.


Like I said, the problem is that the indexing for the current progressive tax, does not provide for a good distribution of tax burden. That needs to be corrected....not the theory behind it, which is sound. The flat tax is like throwing out the baby with the bath water...
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Postby strangegrey » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:48 am

Lula wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Lula wrote:spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.


Call it what you will but it's still giving money to those who don't pay income taxes in the first place.


obama is not creating a welfare class, that has existed since the depression.


Thanks, in large part to FDR...someone who's fiscal policies Barrack Obama is basing his current economic plans on. I'm not entirely sure Obama's got the right idea *either*....

Tax credits to people that *dont* pay tax, is irresponsible...and Barrack's plan is loaded with them. *that* is redistributive policy...and the net result from excess tax credits in a tax plan, is an effective increase in tax rates on the other end. Remember what I said above about the progressive tax rates needing to be reindexed to allow for the system to work as intended.

The overuse of tax credits in the tax proposals outlined by Obama is yet another way to hijack the progressive system and subvert it's good intentions...
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:56 am

Fact Finder wrote:
It was Obama Lula, denial isn't just a river in Egypt..



please :roll:
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Postby Lula » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:12 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Lula wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
It was Obama Lula, denial isn't just a river in Egypt..



please :roll:


Please what? He said it and you're denying it.


not denying anything. as i've stated we all interpret things differently. i'm voting for obama and you're not. we're differnt.

the "please :roll: " was in regards to the lame denial/river thing.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:13 am

i just heard obama say that the maintenance worker & a ceo should be treated equally.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

there is a reason someone is a janitor & someone is a ceo of a company... HARD WORK. the janitor could work their way up... with hard work... but things shouldn't be handed to people. it makes us weak. do people not understand that... or do they just not care?

wtf.

sorry... but obama is scary.

why even bother setting goals & working hard to achieve them? why even bother saving money to send our kids to college... why even go???
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:27 am

it happens on both side. children pick up what they hear... at home, school... from friends.

duh.

Jana wrote:I'm not here to defend anybody on those remarks. You guys can hash it out. You're big boys. I only "defend" BJG and Lula because they're my fellow Hillary supporters and my peeps. :lol: But I think taking it to a new low regarding John raising his son like the KKK or Black Panthers crossed the line. Actually, John made some very moving statements on this site regarding his unconditional love for his son and how nothing would change the deep love and affection he has for him (even if he turned out to be gay, which would disappoint him). I'm sure he's a wonderful father.

My niece came home from middle school yesterday, 12 years old. She said two friends were talking about Obama. One said, I'm so scared of him. The other one says, he scares me too. My niece asked why. One said, he kills babies. The other one said, yeah, he's a baby killer. Now, that's great parenting. My niece's father, who is a staunch Republican, was disgusted at putting such things in children's minds.
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