The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[finalfight]

i just heard obama say that the maintenance worker & a ceo should be treated equally.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

there is a reason someone is a janitor & someone is a ceo of a company... HARD WORK. the janitor could work their way up... with hard work... but things shouldn't be handed to people. it makes us weak. do people not understand that... or do they just not care?

wtf.

sorry... but obama is scary.

why even bother setting goals & working hard to achieve them? why even bother saving money to send our kids to college... why even go???

Utter bullsh!t.

Discounting the 'born with a silver spoon' equation - Everyone's chemical make up is different so some will just not have the mental capacity, ability or aptitude to handle the running a company. On the other hand others might be able to easily manage figures and people but be useless with their hands. It's what makes the world go round.

Without the farmers in the fields all these CEO's you want to see running the Country would die of starvation.

[Lula]

reasons.... an individual able to become a ceo has to have a certain level of intelligence & education. an individual that becomes a janitor does so perhaps because of a limited education or inherent intelligence. as an individual working with children with special needs and knowing that their options for higher education are limited to trade, etc... is it so hard to understand that the janitor deserves respect and recognition for a job well done? as a society we have placed way too much value on a person based on their salary rather than their contribution and it is wrong.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not only do some of them NOT pay income tax, they get a form of welfare in the form of EIC (earned income credit)

You can thank that Trotskyist skeeze, Ronald Reagan, for that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

By the way, what lofty trade hast thou gainfully applied thyself to so that we may pontificate upon how great and mighty thou art?

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

[Jana]

Tree, to compare a CEO to a janitor and say the difference is hard work is such an arrogant remark. There are so many people in this world who are not booksmart and don't even have the intelligence to go on to college. A lot of people will never even have the capability to be a foreman or supervisor in, say, the construction industry. But are they hard workers? Absolutely. Do the maids that work in the hotel industry have less value because they're low income workers? They work hard. Many of them have second jobs. I have many relatives who are farmers. Some made a great living; others it's been much harder. But they work harder than anybody I know.

[Skylorde]

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

*ouch*

[treetopovskaya]

duh.

what did obama mean tho? no one answered that question.

what does obama mean when he says that the maintenance worker & ceo should be treated equally?

it didn't come across to me as obama was saying that both deserve to have "respect and recognition for a job well done". he is talking about taxes. right?

reasons.... an individual able to become a ceo has to have a certain level of intelligence & education. an individual that becomes a janitor does so perhaps because of a limited education or inherent intelligence. as an individual working with children with special needs and knowing that their options for higher education are limited to trade, etc... is it so hard to understand that the janitor deserves respect and recognition for a job well done? as a society we have placed way too much value on a person based on their salary rather than their contribution and it is wrong.

[Saint John]

what does obama mean when he says that the maintenance worker & ceo should be treated equally?

Just more of his bullshit drivel. He knows there are far more blue collar people than CEO's. He's simply pandering to the majority again and buying votes.

[treetopovskaya]

it was an example... not the norm. i know plenty of people who are janitors... who are smart & could easily go to college to get a better education & work their way up. they just don't. they'd rather work 2 jobs just to get by. my hub works with people who came to this country not even being about to speak the language. they went to school to learn english... went to college... some our still taking classes even tho they have a very good paying job. they are able to own a house (and keep it), buy a nice car... they are successful & they did it on their own. hard work. that is just an example.

you should know all about arrogance. you're voting him into office. }:CP

Tree, to compare a CEO to a janitor and say the difference is hard work is such an arrogant remark. There are so many people in this world who are not booksmart and don't even have the intelligence to go on to college. A lot of people will never even have the capability to be a foreman or supervisor in, say, the construction industry. But are they hard workers? Absolutely. Do the maids that work in the hotel industry have less value because they're low income workers? They work hard. Many of them have second jobs. I have many relatives who are farmers. Some made a great living; others it's been much harder. But they work harder than anybody I know.

[treetopovskaya]

why isn't anyone bitching about this statement?

tools.

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

*ouch*

[Lula]

duh.

what did obama mean tho? no one answered that question.

what does obama mean when he says that the maintenance worker & ceo should be treated equally?

it didn't come across to me as obama was saying that both deserve to have "respect and recognition for a job well done". he is talking about taxes. right?

reasons.... an individual able to become a ceo has to have a certain level of intelligence & education. an individual that becomes a janitor does so perhaps because of a limited education or inherent intelligence. as an individual working with children with special needs and knowing that their options for higher education are limited to trade, etc... is it so hard to understand that the janitor deserves respect and recognition for a job well done? as a society we have placed way too much value on a person based on their salary rather than their contribution and it is wrong.

i interpret just as he says it. that "all men are created equal" thing. i emphasize my comment about placing a value on an individual based on their income. i work in a public school- everyone from the top dog to the cafeteria worker play an integral part of our success. to place more value on the ceo and less on the janitor is wrong.

[Lula]

why isn't anyone bitching about this statement?

tools.

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

*ouch*

dave can handle tnc, they dance quite often.

[S2M]

spread the wealth around is being interpreted different by each one of us. you guys see it as some plan to give your lunch money to the homeless kid while i see it as a break to the working class and not the rich.

Call it what you will but it's still giving money to those who don't pay income taxes in the first place.

obama is not creating a welfare class, that has existed since the depression.

I didn't say he was. I'll say it again...HE'S TAKING MONEY FROM THOSE WHO DO PAY INCOME TAX AND GIVING IT TO THOSE WHO DON'T. For that matter, some of McCain's policies would do nearly the same thing. Neither one is acceptable, in my opinion.

Robin of Locksley

[treetopovskaya]

one of the guys at my work who is a janitor is probably one of the smartest people you could ever meet. he is kind of annoying tho cuz he never shuts up. i'm serious... he is ALWAYS talking... we think he does this cause if he doesn't his head might explode... hahahaa! i think he may be a little slow... maybe because when he was younger he used drugs but he is very very book/life smart. if you have a question about anything go ask him... but you better have some time to kill. }:C)

his little boy is a smaller version. smart kid. }:C)

[treetopovskaya]

i agree but that's not how i took what obama said.

hey... at my work i'm pretty low on that totem poll. i work hr. }:C)

duh.

what did obama mean tho? no one answered that question.

what does obama mean when he says that the maintenance worker & ceo should be treated equally?

it didn't come across to me as obama was saying that both deserve to have "respect and recognition for a job well done". he is talking about taxes. right?

reasons.... an individual able to become a ceo has to have a certain level of intelligence & education. an individual that becomes a janitor does so perhaps because of a limited education or inherent intelligence. as an individual working with children with special needs and knowing that their options for higher education are limited to trade, etc... is it so hard to understand that the janitor deserves respect and recognition for a job well done? as a society we have placed way too much value on a person based on their salary rather than their contribution and it is wrong.

i interpret just as he says it. that "all men are created equal" thing. i emphasize my comment about placing a value on an individual based on their income. i work in a public school- everyone from the top dog to the cafeteria worker play an integral part of our success. to place more value on the ceo and less on the janitor is wrong.

[conversationpc]

By the way, what lofty trade hast thou gainfully applied thyself to so that we may pontificate upon how great and mighty thou art?

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

Typical and expected response. You consistently degrade others for their chosen profession but yours is apparently off limits.

[conversationpc]

why isn't anyone bitching about this statement?

tools.

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

*ouch*

TNC gets away with this stuff all the time. If I had said something like this, I'd be run out of Dodge and rightfully so.

[Saint John]

i work in a public school- everyone from the top dog to the cafeteria worker play an integral part of our success. to place more value on the ceo and less on the janitor is wrong.

Okay...I noticed that you followed Journey pretty close a few years back. How many times did you wait outside and attempt to snag the signature of a roadie? Where are your pictures with the guy that cleans the shitter in the Journey tour bus? These guys, per your argument, are just as important, yet every picture I have ever seen of you is with a band member. Your logic is bullshit and you know it!!!

[treetopovskaya]

you don't see a line being crossed here???

you miss the point completely. this crap should not be tolerated. it happens time & time again because it is... tolerated.

this place is more rough than the meanest hockey board...

a JOURNEY message board! LOL!

this isn't megadeth.

who really envisions a journey/melodic rock fan as being a tough ass? HAHAHAHAA!

scary! (hehehee)

why isn't anyone bitching about this statement?

tools.

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

*ouch*

dave can handle tnc, they dance quite often.

[conversationpc]

you miss the point completely. this crap should not be tolerated. it happens time & time again because it is... tolerated.

this place is more rough than the meanest hockey board...

a JOURNEY message board! LOL!

this isn't megadeth.

who really envisions a journey/melodic rock fan as being a tough ass? HAHAHAHAA!

scary! (hehehee)

why isn't anyone bitching about this statement?

tools.

I fuck your wife. I get paid by the pound.

*ouch*

dave can handle tnc, they dance quite often.

I don't mind it most of the time and I even got over that completely classless comment about Palin's "backwoods retard" baby. I don't put up with the personal stuff, though. Extremely overboard and unnecessary.

[Enigma869]

Don't let him piss in the water.

Better number one than number two. Those floating logs can be frightening


John from Boston

[ProgRocker53]

Believe me, I think about bitching out people who lay down out-of-line statements all the time... but I try to avoid conflict.

That said... since I have THAT out.... TNC, that was outta line.

[ProgRocker53]

So now apparently $50k/year is "wealthy" according to Obama.

My dad makes barely over $50k/year, but you wouldn't be able to tell. My family barely gets by and I have to sacrifice a good bit of MY personal income to help them get by. Now, with taxes going up on people in my dad's income bracket (if Obama wins), I'll be expected to pay more to help out... making me even more stuck than I already am.

This is fucking ludicrous.

I really wish I would've taken advantage of my thirteen years of FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION so I would've been able to get full scholarships, so I would've known a better college to go to, so I wouldn't be in this shitty position, so I would have a good job upon graduation....

I hold MYSELF accountable for MY mistakes and I DO NOT EXPECT TO BE BAILED OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT. I don't WANT to be bailed out. I don't think the stock market should've been bailed out and I don't think the people who don't even pay taxes.... should be bailed out... YOU MAKE YOUR OWN WAY in this country, and if you can't use all the resources and priveleges you're given to do so... then you shouldn't have to depend on Uncle Sam to give you a hand....

AND IT'S NOT RIGHT to those with incomes above Obama's magic wealth line... who have sacrificed and worked hard and done their part to earn that comfort... to have to give EVEN MORE MONEY to the poor.. when they are already even afforded too much.

[treetopovskaya]

last i heard it was down to $120,000... it keeps getting lower & lower. hmm.

tyler... you are one smart cookie & if you ever run for prez you have my vote! };C))

So now apparently $50k/year is "wealthy" according to Obama.

My dad makes barely over $50k/year, but you wouldn't be able to tell. My family barely gets by and I have to sacrifice a good bit of MY personal income to help them get by. Now, with taxes going up on people in my dad's income bracket (if Obama wins), I'll be expected to pay more to help out... making me even more stuck than I already am.

This is fucking ludicrous.

I really wish I would've taken advantage of my thirteen years of FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION so I would've been able to get full scholarships, so I would've known a better college to go to, so I wouldn't be in this shitty position, so I would have a good job upon graduation....

I hold MYSELF accountable for MY mistakes and I DO NOT EXPECT TO BE BAILED OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT. I don't WANT to be bailed out. I don't think the stock market should've been bailed out and I don't think the people who don't even pay taxes.... should be bailed out... YOU MAKE YOUR OWN WAY in this country, and if you can't use all the resources and priveleges you're given to do so... then you shouldn't have to depend on Uncle Sam to give you a hand....

AND IT'S NOT RIGHT to those with incomes above Obama's magic wealth line... who have sacrificed and worked hard and done their part to earn that comfort... to have to give EVEN MORE MONEY to the poor.. when they are already even afforded too much.

[ProgRocker53]

last i heard it was down to $120,000... it keeps getting lower & lower. hmm.

tyler... you are one smart cookie & if you ever run for prez you have my vote! };C))

So now apparently $50k/year is "wealthy" according to Obama.

My dad makes barely over $50k/year, but you wouldn't be able to tell. My family barely gets by and I have to sacrifice a good bit of MY personal income to help them get by. Now, with taxes going up on people in my dad's income bracket (if Obama wins), I'll be expected to pay more to help out... making me even more stuck than I already am.

This is fucking ludicrous.

I really wish I would've taken advantage of my thirteen years of FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION so I would've been able to get full scholarships, so I would've known a better college to go to, so I wouldn't be in this shitty position, so I would have a good job upon graduation....

I hold MYSELF accountable for MY mistakes and I DO NOT EXPECT TO BE BAILED OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT. I don't WANT to be bailed out. I don't think the stock market should've been bailed out and I don't think the people who don't even pay taxes.... should be bailed out... YOU MAKE YOUR OWN WAY in this country, and if you can't use all the resources and priveleges you're given to do so... then you shouldn't have to depend on Uncle Sam to give you a hand....

AND IT'S NOT RIGHT to those with incomes above Obama's magic wealth line... who have sacrificed and worked hard and done their part to earn that comfort... to have to give EVEN MORE MONEY to the poor.. when they are already even afforded too much.

During my one year in college I split my classes right down the middle, taking an even amount of both communication and politics classes.

My professor told me, "You would have a future in politics, BUT, you're far too good of a person."

If it wasn't for the economical clusterfuck that is my life, then I'd be interning with the press in Washington D.C. this year.... had already been accepted to the program and everything...

Sometimes I feel I'm the embodiment of wasted potential.

Thanks, Tree.

[Skylorde]

So now apparently $50k/year is "wealthy" according to Obama. My dad makes barely over $50k/year, but you wouldn't be able to tell. My family barely gets by and I have to sacrifice a good bit of MY personal income to help them get by. Now, with taxes going up on people in my dad's income bracket (if Obama wins), I'll be expected to pay more to help out... making me even more stuck than I already am.

Obama's tax plan started out at 250k, then down to 150k according to Biden. When did it go lower?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Believe me, I think about bitching out people who lay down out-of-line statements all the time... but I try to avoid conflict.

That said... since I have THAT out.... TNC, that was outta line.

Uhh, just last night you were egging Dave on.
And the topic was the least partisan and inflammatory imaginable: clean water safety standards.
How convenient for your sense of morality to assert itself when Dave’s dick is hanging by a ligament, waiting only for the disembodied voice of Shang Tsung to command “finish him!”

Y'know, it is really for the best that you decided to switch to the GOP…you’ve got the Larry Craig toilet sanctimony down cold.

[Rick]

So now apparently $50k/year is "wealthy" according to Obama. My dad makes barely over $50k/year, but you wouldn't be able to tell. My family barely gets by and I have to sacrifice a good bit of MY personal income to help them get by. Now, with taxes going up on people in my dad's income bracket (if Obama wins), I'll be expected to pay more to help out... making me even more stuck than I already am.

Obama's tax plan started out at 250k, then down to 150k according to Biden. When did it go lower?

His tax plan has several stages. People earning less than 250 won't see a tax increase. People earning 200 or below will see a tax cut and it continues with different brackets. I don't know why Prog thinks his dad will pay more taxes. Obama assured he would give a tax break or cut for people under 250k. And for people making 50k and married, you should see $1000.00 tax cut.

Here's a calculator to figure out how your taxes will change.

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

[conversationpc]

Uhh, just last night you were egging Dave on.
And the topic was the least partisan and inflammatory imaginable: clean water safety standards.

Wrong again. Clean water safety standards was mentioned but the actual topic being discussed were Republicans/Conservatives who've abandoned bush and don't consider him a true conservative anymore.

How convenient for your sense of morality to assert itself when Dave’s dick is hanging by a ligament, waiting only for the disembodied voice of Shang Tsung to command “finish him!”

Y'know, it is really for the best that you decided to switch to the GOP…you’ve got the Larry Craig toilet sanctimony down cold.

You've never finished anyone on this forum. Hell, you can't even finish yourself.

[strangegrey]

reasons.... an individual able to become a ceo has to have a certain level of intelligence & education. an individual that becomes a janitor does so perhaps because of a limited education or inherent intelligence....

OR lack of motivation/drive to work hard enough to propel one beyond the pay grade of a janitor. While I will most certainly agree that respect to either the CEO or the janitor is apropriate.....too many people equate respect with money. If that's what Obama's driving at here, he's backing up a slippery/dangerous slope.

Because there is zero reason to suggest that a CEO and a janitor should get the same pay...

Some clarification needs to be sought here...

as an individual working with children with special needs and knowing that their options for higher education are limited to trade, etc... is it so hard to understand that the janitor deserves respect and recognition for a job well done? as a society we have placed way too much value on a person based on their salary rather than their contribution and it is wrong.

Point taken....however, don't cross the dangerous line of suggesting that all jobs (and the value added by them) are equal. That's simply one notch in the direction of socialism.


I do feel that it's reprehensible for teachers and educators to be some of the lowest paid people in the country.....but to suggest that job importance is something that has to be eqaulized is NOT the way to do it...