The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[7 Wishes]

i just heard obama say that the maintenance worker & a ceo should be treated equally.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

It means EXACTLY what our founding fathers intended it to mean, that's what.

Democracy isn't just for rich white guys anymore, Tree.

And "redistribution" is NOT socialism.

[Rick]

So now apparently $50k/year is "wealthy" according to Obama. My dad makes barely over $50k/year, but you wouldn't be able to tell. My family barely gets by and I have to sacrifice a good bit of MY personal income to help them get by. Now, with taxes going up on people in my dad's income bracket (if Obama wins), I'll be expected to pay more to help out... making me even more stuck than I already am.

Obama's tax plan started out at 250k, then down to 150k according to Biden. When did it go lower?

His tax plan has several stages. People earning less than 250 won't see a tax increase. People earning 200 or below will see a tax cut and it continues with different brackets. I don't know why Prog thinks his dad will pay more taxes. Obama assured he would give a tax break or cut for people under 250k. And for people making 50k and married, you should see $1000.00 tax cut.

Here's a calculator to figure out how your taxes will change.

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

Dude, you're buying in hook line and sinker, get the facts....he will not cut anyones taxes..I guarandamntee you..

We too often ignore the fact that Obama's policies would allow the Bush tax cuts to lapse, which would significantly increase taxes on individuals earning $25,000, $50,000, and $75,000 a year. And his plan to lift the cap on Social Security taxes will directly increase taxes on individuals earning far less than $250,000 a year. Moreover, Obama's tax increase on capital gains will ensnare many who are "middle class" income-earners. Obama intends to tax the heck out of everyone, including the "middle class."

and don't forget these words from O's own lips to the NY Times...

Here is an excerpt from NY Times interview with Obama.

During my recent conversation with Obama, he mentioned Sam’s Club Republicanism in a different context, and I asked him if he had read “Grand New Party.” He hadn’t, he said, so I read him the line about dependence and condescension and asked for his reaction.

He said it made him think of Warren Buffett, an Obama supporter, who, if anything, might argue that he wasn’t going far enough to change the tax code. “If you talk to Warren, he’ll tell you his preference is not to meddle in the economy at all — let the market work, however way it’s going to work, and then just tax the heck out of people at the end and just redistribute it,” Obama said. “That way you’re not impeding efficiency, and you’re achieving equity on the back end.”

All we can go on is what the candidates tell us. So you think we should believe everything McCain says and nothing Obama says. Gotcha!

[7 Wishes]

Obama's tax plan started out at 250k, then down to 150k according to Biden. When did it go lower?

O said $200k in his infomercial the other night...you can't trust these people..give them an inch and they'll park their car in it.

Stole this from another board and have to share....

Obama....Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers [/quote]

It never ends. Rick's post explains it to you in simple terms even YOU can understand.

NONE of you neo-cons has yet to comment in ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER on McCain's KNOWN CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS with Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy.

[Enigma869]

Dude, you're buying in hook line and sinker, get the facts....he will not cut anyones taxes..I guarandamntee you..

So what! What's your point? I realize that you're a card carrying Republican, but the people on your side of the aisle are every bit as full of shit! Remember George H. W. Bush's claim of "Read My Lips..No new taxes"! That lasted long! Listen...I agree with you that Obama is full of shit. That said, so is McCain. They both picked complete morons as a V.P., so the status quo remains in Washington! More empty promises, from full of shit politicians, regardless of their party affiliation!


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

NONE of you neo-cons has yet to comment in ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER on McCain's KNOWN CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS with Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy.

100% wrong again...

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... ng#4197240
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... ng#4165118
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... dy#4206244

[7 Wishes]

The Republican Election Stealing Machine is REALLY going to have to be in its best form this time around - they will have to steal Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, AND North Carolina just to have a chance to win!

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

For you neo-cons who don't understand how Bush's team stole 2000 and 2004, this article should help out. And remember, this time, we're ready for you. Never in the HISTORY of exit polling has the margin of error been more than 0.3 per cent...yet conveniently in 2000 and 2004, the "swing states" all had Kerry leading by 6.0 points in the EXIT POLLS (where they ask you for whom you voted AFTER you leave the polling station, rather than ask you for whom you INTEND to vote), yet Bush "somehow" won by 2.5 percent!

It's not gonna happen this time, neo-cons. You WON'T get away with it, try as though we know you will.

[conversationpc]

So what! What's your point? I realize that you're a card carrying Republican, but the people on your side of the aisle are every bit as full of shit! Remember George H. W. Bush's claim of "Read My Lips..No new taxes"! That lasted long! Listen...I agree with you that Obama is full of shit. That said, so is McCain. They both picked complete morons as a V.P., so the status quo remains in Washington! More empty promises, from full of shit politicians, regardless of their party affiliation!

Boy, I wish there was a valid 3rd party option.

[7 Wishes]

NONE of you neo-cons has yet to comment in ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER on McCain's KNOWN CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS with Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy.

100% wrong again...

Nope. Dave. It's you...AGAIN.

Notorious Watergate burglar G. Gordon Liddy is a McCain supporter. In fact, Liddy, who at one time plotted to murder a journalist, has been donating money to McCain for the past decade. Liddy calls McCain “a good, personal friend“. McCain has appeared on Liddy’s radio show and McCain’s website provides call-in info to Liddy’s show, asking supporters to contact the ex-con.

Liddy didn’t exactly turn squeaky clean when he emerged from prison. In the mid-1990s, he instructed listeners about the best way to kill federal agents, Liddy has also bizarrely suggested that the Watergate break-in had something to do with a mythical call-girl ring run out of Democratic National Committee headquarters. Not exactly a reformed or repentant man.

Now that George Stephanopoulos is through grilling Obama about nonexistent ties to a former Weatherman, maybe he, or someone else in the media, can turn their attention to McCain’s close ties with a convicted felon who was involved in one of the most infamous crimes in American history. Looking forward to hearing McCain explain this relationship, and whether he agrees with Liddy’s extreme views.

[Enigma869]

How is it that Obama's aunt being in the country illegally is even a story that is supposed to be unfavorable to Obama? This is ABSURD! I have aunts that I couldn't identify in a police lineup, let alone know what the hell they're doing in their day to day lives!

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/voic ... e/BO93564/


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

For you neo-cons who don't understand how Bush's team stole 2000 and 2004, this article should help out. And remember, this time, we're ready for you. Never in the HISTORY of exit polling has the margin of error been more than 0.3 per cent...yet conveniently in 2000 and 2004, the "swing states" all had Kerry leading by 6.0 points in the EXIT POLLS (where they ask you for whom you voted AFTER you leave the polling station, rather than ask you for whom you INTEND to vote), yet Bush "somehow" won by 2.5 percent!

It's not gonna happen this time, neo-cons. You WON'T get away with it, try as though we know you will.

First off, Robert Kennedy is about as partisan as you can get. He's the guy who labels those who don't believe in man-made global warming to be "traitors". Secondly, it seems that he plays somewhat fast and loose with the facts...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/

[conversationpc]

NONE of you neo-cons has yet to comment in ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER on McCain's KNOWN CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS with Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy.

100% wrong again...

Nope. Dave. It's you...AGAIN.

Notorious Watergate burglar G. Gordon Liddy is a McCain supporter. In fact, Liddy, who at one time plotted to murder a journalist, has been donating money to McCain for the past decade. Liddy calls McCain “a good, personal friend“. McCain has appeared on Liddy’s radio show and McCain’s website provides call-in info to Liddy’s show, asking supporters to contact the ex-con.

Liddy didn’t exactly turn squeaky clean when he emerged from prison. In the mid-1990s, he instructed listeners about the best way to kill federal agents, Liddy has also bizarrely suggested that the Watergate break-in had something to do with a mythical call-girl ring run out of Democratic National Committee headquarters. Not exactly a reformed or repentant man.

Now that George Stephanopoulos is through grilling Obama about nonexistent ties to a former Weatherman, maybe he, or someone else in the media, can turn their attention to McCain’s close ties with a convicted felon who was involved in one of the most infamous crimes in American history. Looking forward to hearing McCain explain this relationship, and whether he agrees with Liddy’s extreme views.

You claimed NONE of us conservatives had commented on Liddy or Keating yet. I showed links to where I commented on both of those issues. You were wrong, yet again. I'm waiting with baited breath for your apology.

Now, if you want to discuss how much of a scumbag Liddy is, you've got a point and I'll join you on the same side on that one.

[7 Wishes]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004?f=h_top

http://www.eons.com/blogs/entry/1157559-McCain-Associations-To-Keating-Racists-amp-Others

[7 Wishes]

You claimed NONE of us conservatives had commented on Liddy or Keating yet. I showed links to where I commented on both of those issues. You were wrong, yet again.

McCain's friendship with Liddy is a well-known fact, as is his long history of ties to Keating.

[conversationpc]

You claimed NONE of us conservatives had commented on Liddy or Keating yet. I showed links to where I commented on both of those issues. You were wrong, yet again.

McCain's friendship with Liddy is a well-known fact, as is his long history of ties to Keating.

[knocking on 7 Wishes' skull]...Hello! Anybody home?

I've already admitted this and discussed it previously. As I said just a few posts ago and a few pages back on this thread...LIDDY IS A SCUMBAG.

[Enigma869]

Liddy calls McCain “a good, personal friend“. McCain has appeared on Liddy’s radio show and McCain’s website provides call-in info to Liddy’s show, asking supporters to contact the ex-con.

Well, for what it's worth, McCain told Letterman, without hesitation (two weeks ago) that he is indeed "close" (his word, not mine) to Liddy.


John from Boston

[7 Wishes]

You have NOT proven that the two were not friends (which they are), or that McCain has no associations with Keating.

Give it up. It can't be done, because MCCAIN AND LIDDY ARE FRIENDS, and MCCAIN AND KEATING HAVE A LONG HISTORY TOGETHER.

[Skylorde]

And "redistribution" is NOT socialism.

I'll bet you can hold a straight face and say that.

[conversationpc]

You have NOT proven that the two were not friends (which they are), or that McCain has no associations with Keating.

Give it up. It can't be done, because MCCAIN AND LIDDY ARE FRIENDS, and MCCAIN AND KEATING HAVE A LONG HISTORY TOGETHER.

Do you know how to freaking read? I didn't say McCain and Liddy weren't friends and that he didn't have a history with Keating.

[Skylorde]

NONE of you neo-cons has yet to comment in ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER on McCain's KNOWN CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS with Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy.

Do you seriously just pull random shit out of your ass, throw it against the wall to see what will stick? Maybe I've missed something here but I've yet to see anyone defending McCain in reference to Keating or Liddy.

Sheesh if there was ever a contest to be the Lemming poster child, you'd win hands down.

[conversationpc]

NONE of you neo-cons has yet to comment in ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER on McCain's KNOWN CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS with Charles Keating and G. Gordon Liddy.

Do you seriously just pull random shit out of your ass, throw it against the wall to see what will stick? Maybe I've missed something here but I've yet to see anyone defending McCain in reference to Keating or Liddy.

Sheesh if there was ever a contest to be the Lemming poster child, you'd win hands down.

But all of us conservatives are WRONG 100%!!!

[conversationpc]

For those too lazy to click and read the critique about Robert Kennedy's Rolling Stone article...

If you do read Kennedy's article, be prepared to machete your way through numerous errors of interpretation and his deliberate omission of key bits of data. The first salient omission comes in paragraph 5, when Kennedy writes, "In what may be the single most astounding fact from the election, one in every four Ohio citizens who registered to vote in 2004 showed up at the polls only to discover that they were not listed on the rolls, thanks to GOP efforts to stem the unprecedented flood of Democrats eager to cast ballots." To back up that assertion, Kennedy cites "Democracy at Risk," the report the Democrats released last June.

That report does indeed point out that many people -- 26 percent -- who first registered in 2004 did not find their names on the voter rolls at polling places. What Kennedy doesn't say, though, is that the same study found no significant difference in the share of Kerry voters and Bush voters who came to the polls and didn't find their names listed. The Democrats' report says that 4.2 percent of Kerry voters were forced to cast a "provisional" ballot and that 4.1 percent of Bush voters were made to do the same -- a stat that lowers the heat on Kennedy's claim of "astounding" partisanship.

...

Kennedy's headlining claim is that 357,000 voters, "most of them Democratic," were either prevented from voting or had their votes go uncounted, making Kerry (who lost by 118,000) the likely true winner. Kennedy finds these "missing votes" in the damnedest places. He counts 30,000 voter registrations that were deleted from voter rolls, in keeping with state law, as mostly Kerry voters, though it's impossible to know if those were even real people. He says that 174,000 mostly Kerry voters didn't vote because they were put off by long lines. But the source states it was actually 129,543 voters, and that those votes would have split evenly between Kerry and Bush. And that same source -- the Democratic Party's report once again -- notes conclusively: "Despite the problems on Election Day, there is no evidence from our survey that John Kerry won the state of Ohio." But Kennedy doesn't tell you that.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wrong again. Clean water safety standards was mentioned but the actual topic being discussed were Republicans/Conservatives who've abandoned bush and don't consider him a true conservative anymore.

That was not the topic at hand.
Find me a quote.
I defy you.

You've never finished anyone on this forum. Hell, you can't even finish yourself.

Ahh, there goes those Christian Conservative morals again.
So attacks on imaginary third parties, such as your wife, are below the pale, but jacking-off references are A-ok?
You are a pious bag of shit.

[conversationpc]

Wrong again. Clean water safety standards was mentioned but the actual topic being discussed were Republicans/Conservatives who've abandoned bush and don't consider him a true conservative anymore.

That was not the topic at hand.
Find me a quote.
I defy you.

Here you go, moron...

No sooner had I posted a link about consumer safety standards being cut by Bush, you chided me that Bush was a Republican and NOT a Conservative.
As if the market-knows-all orthodoxy hasn't infected both equally.
Cut the shit.

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... ly#4208208

OK...I remember saying that. I still stand by that statement also. He's not the conservative he claimed to be initially. Far from it. Regardless, take your own advice. You've got more shit than anyone else here to cut.

As I said previously...Consumer safety standards were MENTIONED but the MAIN TOPIC OF DISCUSSION was conservatives who had voted for Bush but no longer considered him to be the conservative they thought he was. Read 'em and weep, pal.

You've never finished anyone on this forum. Hell, you can't even finish yourself.

Ahh, there goes those Christian Conservative morals again.
So attacks on imaginary third parties, such as your wife, are below the pale, but jacking-off references are A-ok?
You are a pious bag of shit.

I've never claimed to be perfect unlike you bagging on others for their chosen professions, as if yours is somehow above reproach.

BTW, my wife is not an imaginary third party. She is real and she is, by a far shot, a much better person than you are.

[separate_wayz]

Why even argue about Obama's tax plan vs. McCain's tax plan?

The fact is, it'll be Congress's tax plan. No presidential proposal will escape unscathed from the congressional committee system and a bicameral Congress. It will be more Congress's plan than the president's plan, by the time it works its way through Congress. Obama could propose (hypothetically) the best, most market-friendly tax plan that rewards initiative and savings and distorts the structure of production the least -- but that's not what will pass Congress.

The majority party in Congress -- almost certainly the Democrats -- will flex its muscle to get the tax plan it wants, especially if it has a supermajority in the Senate. It will have less to do with Barack Obama than is suggested (assuming he's elected president). Does Barack Obama have any kind of a track record standing up to committee chairmen in his own party? I'd be curious to hear an answer suggesting that he does. I'm not aware of any single incident that he has, in any significant way.

This is why I wouldn't waste 5 minutes plugging numbers into some website that alleges to show me what my tax burden will be under somebody's tax plan. It's meaningless -- pretty much equivalent to making-up numbers.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Here you go, moron...

No sooner had I posted a link about consumer safety standards being cut by Bush, you chided me that Bush was a Republican and NOT a Conservative.
As if the market-knows-all orthodoxy hasn't infected both equally.
Cut the shit.

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... ly#4208208

OK...I remember saying that. I still stand by that statement also. He's not the conservative he claimed to be initially. Far from it. Regardless, take your own advice. You've got more shit than anyone else here to cut.

As I said previously...Consumer safety standards were MENTIONED but the MAIN TOPIC OF DISCUSSION was conservatives who had voted for Bush but no longer considered him to be the conservative they thought he was. Read 'em and weep, pal.

Let me see if I can follow your winding ouroboros-like logic....
You have provided a post of me discussing safety standards with a link back to an even earlier post where I am talking about Conservatives cutting safety standards.
And this, according to you, somehow proves the original topic was not about safety standards? Ooookay.
Swollen Indiana turd says what?

I've never claimed to be perfect unlike you bagging on others for their chosen professions, as if yours is somehow above reproach.

Riiight.
I'm sure Joe the Plumber is sooo deeply offended by my remarks he can hardly celebrate his newly minted record, book, and TV deals.
You sure spend alot of time worrying about the rights of the rich and powerful.

BTW, my wife is not an imaginary third party. She is real and she is, by a far shot, a much better person than you are.

I don't care about you or your incestuous Sawney Bean clan.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is about as close to an official death knell as we're apt to hear
Palin pranked by radio personalities pretending to be President Sarkozy...incredible.
It contines for close to six minutes.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-tr ... imper.html

[Uno_up]

[conversationpc]

Let me see if I can follow your winding ouroboros-like logic....
You have provided a post of me discussing safety standards with a link back to an even earlier post where I am talking about Conservatives cutting safety standards.
And this, according to you, somehow proves the original topic was not about safety standards? Ooookay.
Swollen Indiana turd says what?

Perhaps I need to restate for the 3rd or 4th time...YOU MAY HAVE MENTIONED SAFETY STANDARDS, BUT THE MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION FROM MY END WAS WHETHER OR NOT MANY CONSERVATIVES FEEL BUSH IS NO LONGER A TRUE CONSERVATIVE. The poo you're currently flinging isn't sticking very well.

Riiight.
I'm sure Joe the Plumber is sooo deeply offended by my remarks he can hardly celebrate his newly minted record, book, and TV deals.
You sure spend alot of time worrying about the rights of the rich and powerful.

I'm not personally endowed with power on high like you appear to be to discern what professions should be considered loftier than others. Next time I'm looking for a job, I'll be sure to consult the TNC Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous Employment Guide. With any luck (and an Obama tax cut to boot) I'll one day enjoy the refined tastes of champaign wishes and caviar dreams.

I don't care about you or your incestuous Sawney Bean clan.

The hills have eyes and considering our respective geographic locations, I think those hills are located a lot closer to you. You might want to rethink who's family it is with the culinary taste for homo sapien-style recipes.

[treetopovskaya]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Socialist

i just heard obama say that the maintenance worker & a ceo should be treated equally.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

It means EXACTLY what our founding fathers intended it to mean, that's what.

Democracy isn't just for rich white guys anymore, Tree.

And "redistribution" is NOT socialism.

[treetopovskaya]

i giggle every time mac yells...

"stand up... stand up... stand up!"

};C))