The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[Suzanne]

First let me start by saying I'm supportive of Obama BUT- someone asked me this question and I had no answer. If Obama has a Caucasian mother and an African-American father, why did he choose to be referred to as black? Example: Mariah Carey has a "white" parent and a "black" parent but I've never heard her call herself only "black". Mind you- I don't care of what desent (did I spell that right?) Obama is from- I'm mixed with a lot of different things if you go back far enough, I only pondered on the question I was asked. Thanks all...

I said this in another thread. You ARE what you defend. As long as there are people out there that will call you derogatory names because of your skin color, you are, for all intensive purposes, a minority. You may feel you are not, but if you have to explain your racial profile to someone, then you clearly will not be considered white. It's not fair but it is still a sad reality in this great nation of ours.

That makes sense. And it IS sad.

[Behshad]

Palin is a fucking hillbilly

Pot meet kettle.

Tito meet W2 s sack

You two are killing me here

Titos going over the edge today,im just helping him

Over the edge,eh? Thats NUTS

[conversationpc]

People will be scared shitless of the GOP for years, because of Sarah Palin....and it's sad....because underneath the stupidity, there were some good qualities....that if had been delivered from someone having an IQ greater than 122...the message might resonate.

Ummm...122 is well above average, which is around 100.

[Enigma869]

If Obama has a Caucasian mother and an African-American father, why did he choose to be referred to as black?

I don't think it's any more complicated than the color of his skin. He looks like a black man, so that's what most are going to refer to him as.


John from Boston

[S2M]

If Obama has a Caucasian mother and an African-American father, why did he choose to be referred to as black?

I don't think it's any more complicated than the color of his skin. He looks like a black man, so that's what most are going to refer to him as.


John from Boston

And whichever will gain him an advantage......

[Enigma869]

I was wondering when you were going to jump on this.

Anyway, I don't believe that for one second. With all the leaks in the last 24 hours alone this sounds like a lot back biting, blame game, and other agendas. I don't believe most of this stuff. At minimum some of the stuff is exaggerated.

Here you go Taco Boy...and this is from Fox News!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc


John from Boston

[stevew2]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

She is a total retard,she must have been shopping during geography class.She is smart as box of rocks,thats why she is back in bumfuck with Jethro and the boys where she belongs

[strangegrey]

People will be scared shitless of the GOP for years, because of Sarah Palin....and it's sad....because underneath the stupidity, there were some good qualities....that if had been delivered from someone having an IQ greater than 122...the message might resonate.

Ummm...122 is well above average, which is around 100.

You know something...you're right. I ammend my initial statement to read 100...lol

[strangegrey]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

Um....tito....go back to the katie couric interviews....watch them a few more times. Then get back to me...alright?

[SteveForever]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

Um....tito....go back to the katie couric interviews....watch them a few more times. Then get back to me...alright?

Frank, she's not an idiot-that's harsh. She was definitely out of her league though.
VP material she was not, but she's no idiot.

[Tito]

I was wondering when you were going to jump on this.

Anyway, I don't believe that for one second. With all the leaks in the last 24 hours alone this sounds like a lot back biting, blame game, and other agendas. I don't believe most of this stuff. At minimum some of the stuff is exaggerated.

Here you go Taco Boy...and this is from Fox News!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc


John from Boston

I heard that. Doesn't mean it's true though.

[Tito]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

Um....tito....go back to the katie couric interviews....watch them a few more times. Then get back to me...alright?

Poor interview. Big deal.

[stevew2]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

Um....tito....go back to the katie couric interviews....watch them a few more times. Then get back to me...alright?

Poor interview. Big deal.

Dumb girl no deal

[Tito]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

Um....tito....go back to the katie couric interviews....watch them a few more times. Then get back to me...alright?

Poor interview. Big deal.

Dumb girl no deal

Steve, I don't think you have the right to be calling anybody dumb or retarded, you goofy looking prick.

[stevew2]

However, Palin had a few old-school republican things going for her, from the perspective of the disillusioned republican base....and those few things.....in todays atmosphere....were enough to make people forget all about the fact that she's an idiot....

She's not an idiot. She may have not been ready for primetime but she's not an idiot.

Um....tito....go back to the katie couric interviews....watch them a few more times. Then get back to me...alright?

Poor interview. Big deal.

Dumb girl no deal

Steve, I don't think you have the right to be calling anybody dumb or retarded, you goofy looking prick.

At least ill show my mug,Mg likes it.Maybe you are really a fucking girl

[hoagiepete]

You had me in agreement until your last paragraph. Entitlement programs for middle and upper class??? What entitlements are there for them? Please be specific.

Oh, that's the easiest....I'll give the biggest example in modern history.

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008

How do you figure that as an "entitlement" for the middle and upper class. That was one fuckin huge bailout of a bunch of institutions and their fat cat management teams. I may have missed it, but I don't see it as entitling the middle class to anything. It sure didn't do anything to help those that lost their own hard earned money in recent bank failures. I must be missing something.

It's big alright, but it isn't an entitlement for the middle and upper class.

[strangegrey]

How do you figure that as an "entitlement" for the middle and upper class. That was one fuckin huge bailout of a bunch of institutions and their fat cat management teams. I may have missed it, but I don't see it as entitling the middle class to anything. It sure didn't do anything to help those that lost their own hard earned money in recent bank failures. I must be missing something.

It's big alright, but it isn't an entitlement for the middle and upper class.

When you enable corporations to reap profits that benefit white collar workers at the expense of the jobs ofblue collar workers, it most certainly is. Bush's trade policy in this country has been disastrous for workers of corporations that used to hire them but opted for cheap foreign labor instead.

[Ehwmatt]

I've read it, I don't agree with it, but there is a far greater danger in just handing money out to individual citizens for free. Nothing's gonna change my mind about that.

no need to disagree with you there. Theres no gaurantee that giving handouts to the public is going to result in stimulating the economy....it's almost as wreckless as picking up toxic assets from corporations and allowing them to throw out accounting rules relating to the preferred stock these corporations give out in exchange.


If you want to look at this in a more big-picture context, the past 8 years has resulted in a overall relaxation of some regulations in corporations that should have never been relaxed. The Bush white house, since it's first days acted in full support of outsourcing, claiming that outsourcing jobs would result in business growth that would trickle down to the end worker and/or the consumer. It hasnt worked.

While this isn't a handout to the corporations....it most certainly has the effect of free money. The general concept is that by making tax and trade policy advantageous to us business, they can operate outside of the confines of the US. This has been disastrous for US industry....and thats one of the many reasons we are no longer a producer nation.

We don't disagree much at all then. I'm comparing the two in a "lesser of two evils" context.

[Tito]

How do you figure that as an "entitlement" for the middle and upper class. That was one fuckin huge bailout of a bunch of institutions and their fat cat management teams. I may have missed it, but I don't see it as entitling the middle class to anything. It sure didn't do anything to help those that lost their own hard earned money in recent bank failures. I must be missing something.

It's big alright, but it isn't an entitlement for the middle and upper class.

When you enable corporations to reap profits that benefit white collar workers at the expense of the jobs ofblue collar workers, it most certainly is. Bush's trade policy in this country has been disastrous for workers of corporations that used to hire them but opted for cheap foreign labor instead.

and Clinton's, and Bush I, etc. This unfortunately has been going on for decades.

[hoagiepete]

How do you figure that as an "entitlement" for the middle and upper class. That was one fuckin huge bailout of a bunch of institutions and their fat cat management teams. I may have missed it, but I don't see it as entitling the middle class to anything. It sure didn't do anything to help those that lost their own hard earned money in recent bank failures. I must be missing something.

It's big alright, but it isn't an entitlement for the middle and upper class.

When you enable corporations to reap profits that benefit white collar workers at the expense of the jobs ofblue collar workers, it most certainly is. Bush's trade policy in this country has been disastrous for workers of corporations that used to hire them but opted for cheap foreign labor instead.

It still is not an "entitlement."

Main Entry: en·ti·tle·ment
Pronunciation: \-ˈtī-təl-mənt\
Function: noun
Date: 1942
1 a: the state or condition of being entitled : right b: a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group ; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges
Per Merriam Webster

Corporations do pay taxes (income, sales, employment, property, etc). Shareholders pay taxes on dividends. Shareholders pay taxes on capital gains. Corporations do employ people. Corporations stock are in almost every pension plan in the country. It cracks me up how many "hate" corporations, but then get pissed when their retirement accounts go south. Can't have it both ways folks.

Again, the bail out directly only impacted the few and I didn't agree with it. It is NOT an entitlement for middle and upper class. You've made a lot of great arguments on this and many other threads, but this isn't one of them.

I keep waiting

[Enigma869]

One more example of disgusting racism. A University Of Texas player was kicked off the team (kudos to Mack Brown) for saying "all the hunters gather up, we have a ni%&er in the whitehouse" on his Facebook page. What a fucking waste of a young mind!

http://www.yelp.com/topic/san-francisco ... rack-obama


John from Boston

[strangegrey]

And #2 of the definition you post falls exactly under this context. I'm sorry if you don't want to view tax credits, trade policy that encourages sending jobs overseas an entitlement. I do...and perhaps for you to understand the concept I'm trying to drive home, let's not call it an entitlement. Let's call it tax and trade policy welfare to big business. The net effect is the same.

Who cares what it's called?

The point I was driving home was that the republican party has shifted from core values in what seems like an overt, deliberate attempt to adopt old school democrat ideals....welfare spending and fiscal irresponsibility. The fiscal irresponsibility is well documented...

However, the welfare spending is no different with the grand exception of who the beneficiaries are. Democrats spend on the poor through welfare, healthcare, etc and hook them into the entitlement system. Republicans as of late, have spent through tax credits and irresponsible trade policy to benefit big business. It's NO different other than who's getting the 'benefits' ....

but it *is* welfare. Just a different kind to a different party.

And the point of what I was saying is that the core principles of irresponsible budgeting and "government programs providing benefits to members of a specified group" (i.e. welfare or entitlements) of what was once core principles of the democrat party are now adopted by the right....

[Tito]

And #2 of the definition you post falls exactly under this context. I'm sorry if you don't want to view tax credits, trade policy that encourages sending jobs overseas an entitlement. I do...and perhaps for you to understand the concept I'm trying to drive home, let's not call it an entitlement. Let's call it tax and trade policy welfare to big business. The net effect is the same.

Who cares what it's called?

The point I was driving home was that the republican party has shifted from core values in what seems like an overt, deliberate attempt to adopt old school democrat ideals....welfare spending and fiscal irresponsibility. The fiscal irresponsibility is well documented...

However, the welfare spending is no different with the grand exception of who the beneficiaries are. Democrats spend on the poor through welfare, healthcare, etc and hook them into the entitlement system. Republicans as of late, have spent through tax credits and irresponsible trade policy to benefit big business. It's NO different other than who's getting the 'benefits' ....

but it *is* welfare. Just a different kind to a different party.

And the point of what I was saying is that the core principles of irresponsible budgeting and "government programs providing benefits to members of a specified group" (i.e. welfare or entitlements) of what was once core principles of the democrat party are not adopted by the right....

I agree totally. I posted on a conservative site, that the Republican Party (especially to win back Ohio and if ever Pennsylvania and Michigan again) needs to drop this free trade shit i.e. outsourcing of jobs/importing of illegals. Had they have voted against the bailout and reigned in spending, I could say well at least they're consistent with the free market. But they're not. It's free market and free trade when it's our jobs being outsourced or eliminated. But the second corporate america is fucked, they're all for government intervention i.e. bailouts, etc. The price tag on all of this just in the last few months is $2.3 TRILLION. I fail to see how "protectionism" would cost us $2.3 TRILLION, especially in short order. Not to mention the trade defecits and national debt we've amassed over the last few decades. Save the jobs and the money. The party of corporate interest loses.

[Journey/Survivor]

Brian Williams mentioned on NBC news that Sarah Palin didn't know that Africa is a continent, she thought that it was just a country.

[Behshad]

Brian Williams mentioned on NBC news that Sarah Palin didn't know that Africa is a continent, she thought that it was just a country.

youre a cool dude bro, but that was brought up at least 8 times before, out of which 4 times by Stevew2/Tito .

[stevew2]

And #2 of the definition you post falls exactly under this context. I'm sorry if you don't want to view tax credits, trade policy that encourages sending jobs overseas an entitlement. I do...and perhaps for you to understand the concept I'm trying to drive home, let's not call it an entitlement. Let's call it tax and trade policy welfare to big business. The net effect is the same.

Who cares what it's called?

The point I was driving home was that the republican party has shifted from core values in what seems like an overt, deliberate attempt to adopt old school democrat ideals....welfare spending and fiscal irresponsibility. The fiscal irresponsibility is well documented...

However, the welfare spending is no different with the grand exception of who the beneficiaries are. Democrats spend on the poor through welfare, healthcare, etc and hook them into the entitlement system. Republicans as of late, have spent through tax credits and irresponsible trade policy to benefit big business. It's NO different other than who's getting the 'benefits' ....

but it *is* welfare. Just a different kind to a different party.

And the point of what I was saying is that the core principles of irresponsible budgeting and "government programs providing benefits to members of a specified group" (i.e. welfare or entitlements) of what was once core principles of the democrat party are not adopted by the right....

I agree totally. I posted on a conservative site, that the Republican Party (especially to win back Ohio and if ever Pennsylvania and Michigan again) needs to drop this free trade shit i.e. outsourcing of jobs/importing of illegals. Had they have voted against the bailout and reigned in spending, I could say well at least they're consistent with the free market. But they're not. It's free market and free trade when it's our jobs being outsourced or eliminated. But the second corporate america is fucked, they're all for government intervention i.e. bailouts, etc. The price tag on all of this just in the last few months is $2.3 TRILLION. I fail to see how "protectionism" would cost us $2.3 TRILLION, especially in short order. Not to mention the trade defecits and national debt we've amassed over the last few decades. Save the jobs and the money. The party of corporate interest loses.

The pict, of Friga is gross, you are one sick dude

[Skylorde]

This is pretty funny

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/o ... _obsessive

[Enigma869]

Anyone know Michelle Laxalt? She's a "Republican Consultant" I just saw on CNN and said "Republicans don't want the government in their wallet but we would like to be the government to tell you how to live your personal life". I like this woman. She's a Republican calling her own party out. What a concept!


John from Boston

[Lula]

what will we do without this thread? i've fallen off the journey wagon so don't post much. someone come up with another off topic thread to keep me going

[Jana]

Lula, I don't think you have to worry. I have a feeling this thread still has a lot of life left in it with a new president taking office with the economy in the toilet. It might slow down for a while after he's finished with all of his announcements. But it will be the holidays then anyway. Then when he takes office I'm sure there will be a lot to discuss.