Journey videos from osaka

[Don]

20 out of 32 could be doable. Remember the audience shots on the Live 2001 DVD??

I think with editing, they could get away with it. Just as long as they don't put "Sellout Crowd" anywhere in the packaging summary.

There are still over 20k tickets unsold and no walk up ticket booth outside the venue, but I got to believe that somehow some of these tickets will be distributed even if they have to give them away.
I think it's safe to say they won't be hitting Manila again anytime soon.

Gunbot, the Mossimo store inside the mall sells tickets. Most common Filipinos don't buy tickets online. We may still get suprised by a surge. When another popular group was there, most tickets were sold in the last hours before the show. As for a DVD, Arnel is most likely gonna be as comfortable as ever in his own home environment, among his people. That could make for one of the best opportunities ever, as far as making a DVD.

That's some serious selling though. After looking at the layout, they could still film and get away with creating the impression that the place is packed. I am wondering now though if Shirley might be talking about recording audio only, for a potential live album pack-in with their next release.

[jrnyman28]

I could live with a live album...in fact, I might prefer it. I never have time to watch music DVDs.

[steveo777]

Yeah, I hadn't thought of Shirley being in Manila for anything but a DVD. A live album? That'd be just fine with me.

[PianoMan1986]

I'm not criticizing on this, just pointing it out, ok?

If you take the SW clip from Osaka and then quick jump to the footage taken from their Chicago show, I think you'll hear a difference, although I could be wrong and if I am, someone please call me on it.

Are you talking about keys? I didn't hear a difference when comparing to other clips. Without a guitar in my hand, I can't be sure, but it sounded the same to me.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Again, I could be wrong because my ears aren't great...I was just trying to compare the sound of keyboard parts between the songs since that's what I play -- although acoustics, video quality, interference can play a part in things too as far as sound. Oh well, I'm just looking forward to seeing the US tour schedule.

[Red13JoePa]

That breakdown in the middle of SW could evolve into the main riffs and themes for a new song, I can totally hear it.

Live And Breath off Arrival I think came about similarly from a small sketch of a piece they were playing on the Vacation's Over tour about a man waiting at a station w/ a suitcase...

[DrFU]

Any Way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz1Mbmth ... annel_page

[JRNYFan]

Any Way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz1Mbmth ... annel_page

It looks like they tweaked things mid-song on this one too. I hope they do all these little variations and diverse setlists in US.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Guys. These are ALL one half step tuned down. I am 100% positive of this.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Live And Breath off Arrival I think came about similarly from a small sketch of a piece they were playing on the Vacation's Over tour about a man waiting at a station w/ a suitcase...

Wasn't L&B initially used as a concert lead-in into WITS?
I always figured the lyrics were about Augeri getting his big break.

[Liquid_Drummer]

These new arrangements sound tacky and sound like they are just thrown in there and in fact I think they suck. Everything is tuned down and while this worked with Perry for some reason it doesnt with Arnel at least to me. The songs sound lifeless and sluggish to me. Almost like a record that has been slowed down a bit. Dont like it.

I have never had an issue with Arnel but this kills the "legacy sound". I am glad however that they are catering to Arnels voice

[StyxCollector]

I'm not criticizing on this, just pointing it out, ok?

If you take the SW clip from Osaka and then quick jump to the footage taken from their Chicago show, I think you'll hear a difference, although I could be wrong and if I am, someone please call me on it.

Are you talking about keys? I didn't hear a difference when comparing to other clips. Without a guitar in my hand, I can't be sure, but it sounded the same to me.

SW is a half step down (Eb instead of E since the bass chugs that most of the tune).

Anyway is a half step down as well (main fundamental here is Ab, not A; check that person's videos)

DSB is also a half step down.

So they're detuning, but since it's only a half step, it doesn't sound drastic. I was playing along with Captured earlier, so I know my bass is in tune.

[EightyRock]

This is damn funny! Perry got shit-canned for tuning down any of his own stuff, but it's ok for Arnel to do it to save HIS voice while covering Perry/Journey stuff. Ok.....some of you people are officially crazy.

For what it's worth, I think Perry, Augeri, Soto and Pineda should tune down to what is comfortable for them to sing without destroying their voices. Nobody will come close to Perry in his prime, so why destroy yourself trying? If a particular tune doesn't sound right tuned down, then chose something else from the vast catalog. If they are tuning down now for Arnel and Deen is singing again.....look out.....there's gotta be an issue. I don't see these guys as bright enough to take preventative measures.

[StyxCollector]

This is damn funny! Perry got shit-canned for tuning down any of his own stuff, but it's ok for Arnel to do it to save HIS voice while covering Perry/Journey stuff. Ok.....some of you people are officially crazy.

For what it's worth, I think Perry, Augeri, Soto and Pineda should tune down to what is comfortable for them to sing without destroying their voices. Nobody will come close to Perry in his prime, so why destroy yourself trying? If a particular tune doesn't sound right tuned down, then chose something else from the vast catalog. If they are tuning down now for Arnel and Deen is singing again.....look out.....there's gotta be an issue. I don't see these guys as bright enough to take preventative measures.

I was thinking somewhat along the same lines. I mean, I could care less one way or the other but we're about one year into the Arnel Pineda regime and they're detuning. Good they recognize this early to not have Augeri Part Deux, but it doesn't bode well for a long and prosperous career with Arnel if every year it gets a half step lower. There could be other reasons they're doing it, such as they've been off tour for awhile and they're easing back into the original keys. Somehow I doubt that though.

Arnel sounded OK here - better than I thought he would be.

But if this continues and he can't hit notes, Journey is done permanently or until they find another singer and blow his voice out, too.

[Liquid_Drummer]

This is damn funny! Perry got shit-canned for tuning down any of his own stuff, but it's ok for Arnel to do it to save HIS voice while covering Perry/Journey stuff. Ok.....some of you people are officially crazy.

For what it's worth, I think Perry, Augeri, Soto and Pineda should tune down to what is comfortable for them to sing without destroying their voices. Nobody will come close to Perry in his prime, so why destroy yourself trying? If a particular tune doesn't sound right tuned down, then chose something else from the vast catalog. If they are tuning down now for Arnel and Deen is singing again.....look out.....there's gotta be an issue. I don't see these guys as bright enough to take preventative measures.

Arnel is 41 after all. This is not unexpected and I have called for them to do this on these boards with Augeri, Soto and Pineda once i heard them having problems. What I didnt expect was that the songs would sound
tired in this key. When Perry did it they still had fire to them. Goes to show. Its not how high but how well you sing and emote.

[jrnyjetster]

For cripes sake...you guys are making your assumptions based on this shitty audio?

[brywool]

I'm not criticizing on this, just pointing it out, ok?

If you take the SW clip from Osaka and then quick jump to the footage taken from their Chicago show, I think you'll hear a difference, although I could be wrong and if I am, someone please call me on it.

Are you talking about keys? I didn't hear a difference when comparing to other clips. Without a guitar in my hand, I can't be sure, but it sounded the same to me.

SW is a half step down (Eb instead of E since the bass chugs that most of the tune).

Anyway is a half step down as well (main fundamental here is Ab, not A; check that person's videos)

DSB is also a half step down.

So they're detuning, but since it's only a half step, it doesn't sound drastic. I was playing along with Captured earlier, so I know my bass is in tune.

Okay. I compared it to other youtube clips, so apologies. Had I had a guitar in hand, I would've known for sure. I don't hear the "lifeless-ness" that LD spoke of though. If anything, sounds like they kicked it in the ass a bit.

[Liquid_Drummer]

:roll: For cripes sake...you guys are making your assumptions based on this shitty audio?

NO assumption here man. They are playing in Eb instead of E and it can not be disputed. If it sounds good to you what difference does it make ? I am not bragging but I have near perfect pitch and I dont mean with my voice. I can hear a note and about 95% of the time tell you what the note is. As a musician of 25 years i can tell you they are tuned down.

I say this with as little bias as possible. I like Arnel a whole lot in Journey but this is not a good sign. They know that they can not stand to replace another singer and Arnel with his whole rags to riches story is a bit of a draw as well. They can not take another singer switch after all of the bragging they have done about Arnel.

Perry was a freak (vocally) and set the bar so high that no one else can hit it. They might get close but the end result is the same. Doctors visits and vocal rest and eventual early retirement. THe way Perry sang KILLS vocalist. Any vocal trainer will tell you that one of the worst things you can do to your voice is to try and sing like someone else as you are making vowel sounds etc that are not natural to you. This speeds up the process that put Augeri out of the game.

Neal has always been VERY against tuning down so if he is doing it it must be a damn big deal. Augeri was in the middle of vocal melt down as can been seen on quite a few youtube clips and they didnt do it for him so you know that THEY know its a make it or break it situation.

[brywool]

I HIGHLY doubt it's tuned down because 'he can't hit the notes'. The guy's got a buttload of range, more than anybody since Perry. More than Augeri and definitely more then JSS. I think it's more that Journey is probably still going to just tour tour tour tour and so they want to do everything they can to prevent any burnout... that is everything they can EXCEPT spacing their dates out. Jeez. I cannot believe they don't just space dates out a bit. I can't imagine being a singer with that kind of load to do. Dang!

It's to be expected that once they tune down, people come out to wag their fingers, even though it's the right thing to do. They SHOULD have done this with Augeri. It would be interesting to know if that was ever talked about (HAD TO BE) and what the band's reaction was. Of course, I think Augeri's problem was much different than just a burned out voice. He alluded to that in his interview and a source that I'm familiar with said the same thing before Augeri confirmed it.

[Liquid_Drummer]

No finger wagging here. I am glad they are trying to preserve Arnels voice. What I didnt expect was that it would make the songs lose momentum. When Perry did this on his solo tour the songs still had plenty of momentum. Steve was so good at working around his limitations in 94. However one of the early 95 boots is the worst i have ever heard him sound and I assume this is what lead to the tour being shitcanned early. That is why I have been looking for a boot of the final show from the FTLOSM tour. I want to hear if he got worse.

[brywool]

Yeah, I've got one from NY and I think one from Atlanta. They're pretty good, though definitely transposed. I have a good ear musically, so I'm not sure how I missed the new ones being down a half step. Maybe I don't wanna believe it!

Perry does crack a few times in those shows and avoids a lot of the money notes, but not nearly as much as the ROR Philly show. Yikes. The cracking on that show was unbelievable. Still, singing's a physical deal and if you use up your reserves or abuse your voice, you're going to pay for it. Vocal problems are nothing to sneeze at. I can't tell you how much money and time I've spent trying to fix my own and I'm just a freakin' club guy. I just can't imagine having THAT much pressure.

Watch and see if Arnel starts gaining weight or looks like he is. That would indicate steroid use. Personally, I don't think that he's having nearly the problems that past Journey singers have had (my observation). I think that the band just wants to do the right thing for Arnel and they're helping him out. Time will tell.

Wasn't accusing you LD. I know that you 'get' the whole voice deal, but I know that others will see it as "oh, Arnel's on his way out, blah blah blah". They could be right, but I think that it's too early to tell and until I hear him sound like I heard Augeri sound, or Perry sound at the end, I won't believe that he's headed for the pasture.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Steriod use.. Weight gain..

Think Perry did this in late 82/83 ? His slight weight gain certainly coincided with his voice change on Frontiers. It must have happened fast because the day on the green show were they perform SW for the 1st time live in 82 sounds like he did on Escape or in other words no rasp.

[NealIsGod]

I watched Stevie Nicks' interview on Chris Issak's show last night, and she was talking about a steroid she took for her voice, which resulted in her gaining a lot of weight. She said when tickets are sold, you do what you have to so you can sing or you have to refund the money and let a lot of people down. Incredible amount of stress, I am sure Perry felt that stress all of the time as his voice was getting more and more "mature".

[brywool]

Steriod use.. Weight gain..

Think Perry did this in late 82/83 ? His slight weight gain certainly coincided with his voice change on Frontiers. It must have happened fast because the day on the green show were they perform SW for the 1st time live in 82 sounds like he did on Escape or in other words no rasp.

YES I do. He also had no rasp on the Japanese dates. By the end of the tour, the rasp was living large and the band was playing everything WAY fast to try and help him. Look at him in the Oh Sherrie videos, his weight was up considerably. Not sure about the shot, but prednisone pills will make you gain about 10-15 lbs. This comes from experience by the way.

[brywool]

I watched Stevie Nicks' interview on Chris Issak's show last night, and she was talking about a steroid she took for her voice, which resulted in her gaining a lot of weight. She said when tickets are sold, you do what you have to so you can sing or you have to refund the money and let a lot of people down. Incredible amount of stress, I am sure Perry felt that stress all of the time as his voice was getting more and more "mature".

Also, back then, I don't think as much was known about that stuff as it is today, so who knows, maybe it was considered 'no big deal'. I do recall Perry saying that he provided himself with preventative medicine in a ShowTime special on Journey. That was during the Departure Tour. You can get away with using that stuff for a while, but if you overdue it, you can get in trouble.
I'm surprised Nicks would admit that. By the way, I've been here before with this discussion and it's only a matter of time before peeps come in and start saying I'm being sacrilegious or whatever. If Nicks took that stuff, you don't think Perry wouldn't? Jesus, I could sing Nick's catalog.

[Eric]

If they are gonna tune down I'd just as soon have JSS in there......I would prefer him anyway, but just sayin.

[perryswoman]

I am really torn on the new arrangements as well. I am sick of hearing the dirty dozen but the new arrangements just sound down right wierd to me. Why can't they just stop singing some of those songs and sing more of the tremendous back catalog they have. For instance, message of love is an outstanding song and Arnel could rip that, why in the hell don't they do that instead of chopping up those old songs. Just down right stupid in my opinion.

[Gideon]

I don't know if it's a sign of "wear 'n tear." It may be a preemptive restriction so Arnel's voice doesn't burn out. But if it is, then Journey's catalogue must be insanely difficult. Shame most vocal enthusiasts are total retards and don't recognize it.


Edit: I love all of the new jams except for the one on AWYWI, but to be fair, the audio was poor during Cain's mini solo. I'd like to hear it with great quality.

[Don]

So, are Winds of March or Patiently going to make it into the setlist eventually?

[Gideon]

So, are Winds of March or Patiently going to make it into the setlist eventually?

I hope not. Not that I wouldn't enjoy hearing Arnel's spin on those songs, but there are many better ones out there.

[Don]

So, are Winds of March or Patiently going to make it into the setlist eventually?

I hope not. Not that I wouldn't enjoy hearing Arnel's spin on those songs, but there are many better ones out there.

Arnel has mentioned that he likes these songs. I'm thinking let him choose some of the setlist that he is comfortable singing and mix in other stuff after that.