Marie Osmonds son takes own life

[Angel]

Don't you have a hairy asshole salad you should be tossing?

You've been sucking too many dicks, dude.

You two are a couple of assholes. These remarks are totally uncalled for.

I didn't even think you two would stoop this low.

*sigh* Please go try and break more marriages up via Internet forums, it'll help calm you.

[slucero]

I'm probably going to get kicked in the face for saying this, but goddamnit I'm angry. So here goes.

Holy fuck, are some people really ignorant enough to belittle and sneer at people who are depressed or who have committed suicide? Do you lack any sort of empathy whatsoever? Depression, as others have said, is NOT something you can just 'snap out of'. It is a serious problem. People who commit suicide are NOT selfish people. They are people who are in an unhealthy mental state that makes them feel worthless and hopeless. To commit suicide because of that mental state is not selfish behavior, it is ill behavior. If they were completely sane, they would REALIZE committing suicide could be construed as "selfish" and not do it. Mentally unstable people are not rational people. They don't think about things like that; they act on impulse.

I know I'm probably the youngest person on this board, so I probably shouldn't say this, but if you think committing suicide is an act of selfishness and if you think depression is a made up illness or that people who have it are selfish, then you are either seriously misinformed or have quite a bit of growing up to do.

(PS: I'm sorry if I come off as rude, but depression and mental illness is prevalent in my family and I have been directly affected by it, so I'm sort of shocked and angry that people could dismiss it as a selfish farce.)

+1 on this... StJohn is an expert on the subject yet has never had any contact with a depressive personality because he surrounds himself with happy people... jesus...

mebbe the reason people in shithole Africa don't get depressed about their life is because they had nothing to compare it to.. its all they've known... their BASELINE is hell...

[portland]

Anorexia is a horrible disease.

I just don't get what some here are saying.

Sorry Portland. I was being sarcastic in response to his stance on mental illness being selfish. See first page of thread.
Nothing against you Matt, I just think you judge harshly and without understanding.

I understand what you were saying. I just know that I have seen loved ones struggle with people who have Anorexia.
I feel just as much sympathy for the loved ones who have to watch what happens to someone that has these illnesses.

[parfait]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

[Luvsaugeri]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

THat's because untreated mental health issues and substance abuse go hand in hand. Ususally the substance abuse comes from people not getting treatment for their mental illness and they are trying to self medicate.

[TRAGChick]

you choose to sit around feeling sorry for yourself.

Oh, really??

In my case....why the hell should a CHILD be depressed???

You missed the Raised On Radio tour, didn't you?

Thank GOD I found out it was SAD....Seasonal Affective Disorder....which occurs in the Wintertime, when sunlight is severely diminished here in New England.

NOW that I KNOW what the hell is going on, I can HANDLE IT AS AN ADULT!

I'd say just about everyone that has to deal with a low sunlight, snowy, cold and shitty winter gets that. What's your point ... that if we don't get diagnosed it's ok to bungee jump from tall buildings with rubber bands?

Laugh all you want, Mfer....

How "positive" would YOU feel if you were PULLED OVER IN THE DEAD OF WINTER - JANUARY-
WITH A B.A.C. of .219??

Is THAT someone acting IN THEIR RIGHT FUCKING MIND????

I could've KILLED MYSELF AND MY PASSENGER in the car WITH ME!!!

DON'T EVEN START WITH THIS SHIT!!!

[Angel]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

THat's because untreated mental health issues and substance abuse go hand in hand. Ususally the substance abuse comes from people not getting treatment for their mental illness and they are trying to self medicate.

Very good point Kel. Also, mental illnesses go hand in hand, diagnosis of any mental illness is never straight forward-it's not like other illnesses where a lab test shows a definitive diagnosis. It's very complex, I'm glad Dan and Matt have it all figures out because even the elite mental health specialists of the world don't have it figured out.

[Ehwmatt]

Yeah, it is selfish for causing them stress. She's been treated a few times, but she's certainly not racking up fees and fees worth of medical bills on it. But hey, it's her prerogative. In the mean time, she's a good mother, she works, and she doesn't take her issues out on other people through moods and all that.

There's a key distinction between having a problem that affects your health and having a problem that you let run ramshod not over only your own life, but over all of your loved ones and work obligations etc. and let it justify you in killing yourself. Sorry you missed that part though. Better luck next time

Matt, you really need to do some research on depression. You have no idea what depression is. Many people with clinical depression are high functioning, productive members of society. You have NO idea what you are talking about and you just make yourself look more stupid with every post. I'd love to be able to help you out, but we all know, you can't cure stupid.

You're all missing the point: The more we allow an illness like depression to justify or mitigate the bullshit act of suicide, the more it's going to happen. If someone wants to be clinically depressed and remain highly functioning members of society, then they are entitled to be diagnosed with whatever they want. It's using the illness to mitigate suicide, a bullshit act, which I have a huge problem with and think is a bullshit cop-out for otherwise just less than average human resiliency in a particular person.

I have not once in this thread said that there is no such thing as clinical depression. On the other hand, I've said many times that we have a severe problem with overdiagnosing, overmedicating, and oversympathizing with BULLSHIT in this society. It needs to stop. The first line of defense is to stop the sycophantic pandering to every asshole who can't see one week ahead of them and wants to claim an affliction with a disease that, in its true form, is at best relatively rare.

[Ehwmatt]

you choose to sit around feeling sorry for yourself.

Oh, really??

In my case....why the hell should a CHILD be depressed???

You missed the Raised On Radio tour, didn't you?

Thank GOD I found out it was SAD....Seasonal Affective Disorder....which occurs in the Wintertime, when sunlight is severely diminished here in New England.

NOW that I KNOW what the hell is going on, I can HANDLE IT AS AN ADULT!

I'd say just about everyone that has to deal with a low sunlight, snowy, cold and shitty winter gets that. What's your point ... that if we don't get diagnosed it's ok to bungee jump from tall buildings with rubber bands?

Laugh all you want, Mfer....

How "positive" would YOU feel if you were PULLED OVER IN THE DEAD OF WINTER - JANUARY-
WITH A B.A.C. of .219??

Is THAT someone acting IN THEIR RIGHT FUCKING MIND????

I could've KILLED MYSELF AND MY PASSENGER in the car WITH ME!!!

DON'T EVEN START WITH THIS SHIT!!!

Wait a second, are you saying your depression made you booze and cruise? What?

[Michigan Girl]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Any reason you chose this quote to make your point?!?!?

[JH'sTXfan]

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Total agreement here.

[TRAGChick]

you choose to sit around feeling sorry for yourself.

Oh, really??

In my case....why the hell should a CHILD be depressed???

You missed the Raised On Radio tour, didn't you?

Thank GOD I found out it was SAD....Seasonal Affective Disorder....which occurs in the Wintertime, when sunlight is severely diminished here in New England.

NOW that I KNOW what the hell is going on, I can HANDLE IT AS AN ADULT!

I'd say just about everyone that has to deal with a low sunlight, snowy, cold and shitty winter gets that. What's your point ... that if we don't get diagnosed it's ok to bungee jump from tall buildings with rubber bands?

Laugh all you want, Mfer....

How "positive" would YOU feel if you were PULLED OVER IN THE DEAD OF WINTER - JANUARY-
WITH A B.A.C. of .219??

Is THAT someone acting IN THEIR RIGHT FUCKING MIND????

I could've KILLED MYSELF AND MY PASSENGER in the car WITH ME!!!

DON'T EVEN START WITH THIS SHIT!!!

Wait a second, are you saying your depression made you booze and cruise? What?

The people I was hanging with were NOT "healthy"; let's just leave it at that....

And yes...we're talking about 1994.....I WAS NOT in my right mind.

I freely admit it. I had to go to Court.

I know NOW there's no excuse for my actions....but back then, I seriously did not care.

[StevePerryHair]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Any reason you chose this quote to make your point?!?!?

My guess is he's young and easily confused

[Angel]

You're all missing the point: The more we allow an illness like depression to justify or mitigate the bullshit act of suicide, the more it's going to happen. If someone wants to be clinically depressed and remain highly functioning members of society, then they are entitled to be diagnosed with whatever they want. It's using the illness to mitigate suicide, a bullshit act, which I have a huge problem with and think is a bullshit cop-out for otherwise just less than average human resiliency in a particular person.

You act like this is a case of not giving in to a child having a temper tantrum. I am sure that people that are depressed and commit suicide because of it could not care less what you or anyone else think about their decision.

[Ehwmatt]

You're all missing the point: The more we allow an illness like depression to justify or mitigate the bullshit act of suicide, the more it's going to happen. If someone wants to be clinically depressed and remain highly functioning members of society, then they are entitled to be diagnosed with whatever they want. It's using the illness to mitigate suicide, a bullshit act, which I have a huge problem with and think is a bullshit cop-out for otherwise just less than average human resiliency in a particular person.

I am sure that people that are depressed and commit suicide because of it could not care less what you or anyone else think about their decision.

Therein lies my problem with it! For every 1 legitimately depressed person that may be so disturbed as to do this (I really believe you only get to this point of taking your life when the depression is concurrent with something else - schizo/bipolar etc), there are undoubtedly 10 people who either are highly self-destructive or kill themselves just because they think it's what they have. I'm not an MD, but I do know that one of the big problems they have with defining mental illnesses is a lot of times they can't tell if their criteria for the illness actually result in people "making" themselves have it. I have no doubt in my mind that's what goes on with a lot of these so-called depression suicide cases.

[Luvsaugeri]

THat's because untreated mental health issues and substance abuse go hand in hand. Ususally the substance abuse comes from people not getting treatment for their mental illness and they are trying to self medicate.

Very good point Kel. Also, mental illnesses go hand in hand, diagnosis of any mental illness is never straight forward-it's not like other illnesses where a lab test shows a definitive diagnosis. It's very complex, I'm glad Dan and Matt have it all figures out because even the elite mental health specialists of the world don't have it figured out.[/quote]

I cut Matt some slack. He is young and doesn't have life experiences yet. We were all young, cocky and thought we knew it all at that age. Although I NEVER remember being that judgemental on so many issues.

As far as Dan.....I don't know what to say about him. I'd like to think he just likes to be shocking and stir the pot. And that he really isn't that unknowledgeable.

[Luvsaugeri]

Don't you have a hairy asshole salad you should be tossing?

You've been sucking too many dicks, dude.

You two are a couple of assholes. These remarks are totally uncalled for.

I didn't even think you two would stoop this low.

*sigh* Please go try and break more marriages up via Internet forums, it'll help calm you.

THAT was completely uncalled for.

[parfait]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Any reason you chose this quote to make your point?!?!? :?

Nope.

Any kind of unipolar disorder, anorexia, whatever - is not something you can snap out of. I don't know a lot about this stuff, but I know enough to say that; this shit isn't even debateable.

[StevePerryHair]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Any reason you chose this quote to make your point?!?!? :?

Nope.

Any kind of unipolar disorder, anorexia, whatever - is not something you can snap out of. I don't know a lot about this stuff, but I know enough to say that; this shit isn't even debateable.

I think you are confused. She was using sarcasm to counteract matt's logic....

[steveo777]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Peeing in a girls mouth is not a choice either...it must be a fucking disease! Yeah, that's right.

[portland]

I just don't get it.

Maybe I am happy that I don't.

I just hope that the people who have stated that they don't understand/believe that it is a real illness have to see a loved one die.

As I am sure there are people here who have.

[JasonD]

You're all missing the point: The more we allow an illness like depression to justify or mitigate the bullshit act of suicide, the more it's going to happen. If someone wants to be clinically depressed and remain highly functioning members of society, then they are entitled to be diagnosed with whatever they want. It's using the illness to mitigate suicide, a bullshit act, which I have a huge problem with and think is a bullshit cop-out for otherwise just less than average human resiliency in a particular person.

I have not once in this thread said that there is no such thing as clinical depression. On the other hand, I've said many times that we have a severe problem with overdiagnosing, overmedicating, and oversympathizing with BULLSHIT in this society. It needs to stop. The first line of defense is to stop the sycophantic pandering to every asshole who can't see one week ahead of them and wants to claim an affliction with a disease that, in its true form, is at best relatively rare.

That's about the third or fourth time you've made that statement. Do you REALLY think there are people out there saying to themselves, "As long as these ignorant assholes are going to feel sorry for us & cater to our duplicity & ficticious acts of man-made depression ---- THE MORE WE ARE GOING TO DO IT !!! The minute these bleeding heart liberals catch on to our self-serving, attention-getting antics, we'll have to scrap the whole depression facade & think of another plan !!!!"

[Angel]

Therein lies my problem with it! For every 1 legitimately depressed person that may be so disturbed as to do this (I really believe you only get to this point of taking your life when the depression is concurrent with something else - schizo/bipolar etc), there are undoubtedly 10 people who either are highly self-destructive or kill themselves just because they think it's what they have. I'm not an MD, but I do know that one of the big problems they have with defining mental illnesses is a lot of times they can't tell if their criteria for the illness actually result in people "making" themselves have it. I have no doubt in my mind that's what goes on with a lot of these so-called depression suicide cases.

OK, let me make sure I understand what you are saying. You say that you believe clinical depression is a legitimate diagnosis and that some people may commit suicide because of the depression, but then you think other people think they are depressed but really aren't, but since some people with depression commit suicide those people with self diagnosed depression then think they are supposed to commit suicide because that's what you do when you are depressed?????

You really are a piece of work.

[Ehwmatt]

I cut Matt some slack. He is young and doesn't have life experiences yet. We were all young, cocky and thought we knew it all at that age. Although I NEVER remember being that judgemental on so many issues.

As far as Dan.....I don't know what to say about him. I'd like to think he just likes to be shocking and stir the pot. And that he really isn't that unknowledgeable.

I fail to see how my having an opinion of suicide as a repugnant, revolting act under almost all circumstances serves as "judgmental?" This is a sick fucking world we live in if that's judgmental. At any rate, luckily I'm allowed to be as judgmental or non-judgmental as I want. It has nothing to do with being young or cocky. It has to do with having a world view that I believe in. I believe that the more we condone or rationalize acts that are totally irrational, regardless of whatever medical evidence or diagnoses there are out there that provide causal reasons for the act, the worse off we'll be. I'm not going to be a part of that.

[Angel]

this shit isn't even debateable.

You'd think.

[wednesday's child]

For every 1 legitimately depressed person that may be so disturbed as to do this (I really believe you only get to this point of taking your life when the depression is concurrent with something else - schizo/bipolar etc), there are undoubtedly 10 people who either are highly self-destructive or kill themselves just because they think it's what they have. I'm not an MD, but I do know that one of the big problems they have with defining mental illnesses is a lot of times they can't tell if their criteria for the illness actually result in people "making" themselves have it. I have no doubt in my mind that's what goes on with a lot of these so-called depression suicide cases.

If you can accept that it exists for that 1 out of 10, why arrogantly assume
that young man's death was one of the nine? You must be assuming it,
since you quickly abused the tragedy as a soapbox for your very loud
"medical expertise".

If you can accept post-partum depression is chemically real, and can lead
to suicide in a moment of what should be supreme happiness, then the
pseudo solution of "surrounding yourself with happy people" is revealed
for the arrogant crock of bullshit it is.


Pigfuckers.

[Triple S]

I cut Matt some slack. He is young and doesn't have life experiences yet. We were all young, cocky and thought we knew it all at that age. Although I NEVER remember being that judgemental on so many issues.

As far as Dan.....I don't know what to say about him. I'd like to think he just likes to be shocking and stir the pot. And that he really isn't that unknowledgeable.

If so, picking a subject so sensitive to so many to do that is just wrong. I'm done reading this thread.

[Ehwmatt]

Therein lies my problem with it! For every 1 legitimately depressed person that may be so disturbed as to do this (I really believe you only get to this point of taking your life when the depression is concurrent with something else - schizo/bipolar etc), there are undoubtedly 10 people who either are highly self-destructive or kill themselves just because they think it's what they have. I'm not an MD, but I do know that one of the big problems they have with defining mental illnesses is a lot of times they can't tell if their criteria for the illness actually result in people "making" themselves have it. I have no doubt in my mind that's what goes on with a lot of these so-called depression suicide cases.

OK, let me make sure I understand what you are saying. You say that you believe clinical depression is a legitimate diagnosis and that some people may commit suicide because of the depression, but then you think other people think they are depressed but really aren't, but since some people with depression commit suicide those people with self diagnosed depression then think they are supposed to commit suicide because that's what you do when you are depressed?????

You really are a piece of work.

No, I think it merely makes the act easier to justify doing in the eyes of someone who has a lower than average resiliency/constitution who may be having hard times but is NOT truly depressed.

[Michigan Girl]

My biggest issue is seeing people become dependent on a substance and then being allowed to be "depressed" and get all this sympathy when they kill themselves. The thing I've noticed is most suicides I hear about are totally irrational and usually involve a history with substance abuse. Like I said, it's a chicken-egg thing. So many people are prepared to sanction debilitating self-destructive behaviors by writing it off as "oh, she was depressed and had so many demons blah fuckin blah" gimme a break, PLEASE. They started drinking or abusing drugs FIRST, then decided they were depressed because they ruined their lives and didn't have the strength to pick up the pieces again.

Hell, my aunt's been anorexic for 22 years now and is supposedly clinically depressed and I'd be willing to bet my life she won't ever come close to killing herself or even entertaining the notion. She knows she's got a great husband and two great children to live for even though she's struggled mightily with her anorexia.

We just need to stop condoning people descending into the abyss of self-destruction by creating the depression out as an excuse for getting into drugs, ruining your finances before your life even gets started, getting into booze, etc etc. It's pathetic.

Struggled with Anorexia? You mean she can't pick up fork, bend elbow, open mouth and insert food? Sounds simple to me.
Anorexia is another destructive mental illness. In your way of thinking, shouldn't this also be the epitome of selfishness? Costing her family stress and money having to take care of her problem all of 22 years?

YEEEOUCH... tough love right there!!! Good points, Marie!!!

I'm sorry guys, but this shit has gone way too far. Clinical depression is not a choice. It's a very real physiological and chemical unbalance. You can't just snap outta a serious depression - to say otherwise is really retarded.

Peeing in a girls mouth is not a choice either...it must be a fucking disease! Yeah, that's right.

Being an ass is a choice ...one that you make each and every day~consistantly!!!

[portland]

I cut Matt some slack. He is young and doesn't have life experiences yet. We were all young, cocky and thought we knew it all at that age. Although I NEVER remember being that judgemental on so many issues.

As far as Dan.....I don't know what to say about him. I'd like to think he just likes to be shocking and stir the pot. And that he really isn't that unknowledgeable.

If so, picking a subject so sensitive to so many to do that is just wrong. I'm done reading this thread.

+1
I am now sick to my stomach.