Marie Osmonds son takes own life

[Behshad]

How old are you Behshad?

2 years old today! He is growing up to be such a big boy! LOL!
:

Rather 2 than older than dirt

Yes little one, now go and play on the freeway..............

.

ok Big One

[Behshad]

You don't have to dealt with a unipolar disorder to understand it.

Your English is far from "parfait".

[Ehwmatt]

How old are you Behshad?

2 years old today! He is growing up to be such a big boy! LOL!
:

Rather 2 than older than dirt

Yes little one, now go and play on the freeway..............


Dan and Matt have either of you dealt with this on a close personal level? I mean clinical depression? If not, then I hardly see how you would understand. My brother was happy go lucky, easy going and laughing all the time. He is not selfish, self centered, or attention seeking. It just hit him one day when the pressure at work got too much. It was years of things going bad for him. He is seeking help for it, so it is not like he is not trying. He realizes something is not right. He used to have your point of view, and he was one of the last people I would have ever thought could go that direction. It can hit anyone, at anytime.

You don't have to dealt with a unipolar disorder to understand it. Only thing you got to have is a bit of common sense. To say that a person with a clinical depression is a coward or got poor resiliency or whatever, is so fucked up on every god damn level. It's like debating whether or not the Holocaust ever happened, or better yet, if 9/11 was some stupid conspiracy - it just shows you got the brain of a fucking otter (no offence, Beshad)

None of you people are reading what we said. We never categorically denied the existence of clinical depression. We are simply saying that when shit like this gets overdiagnosed or is allowed to be a consistent excuse for suicide or other destructive behaviors, it becomes a social problem.

Some people here seem to think that clinical depression and suicide are mutually inclusive. In my estimation, they are not. Irrationality and suicide certainly are mutually inclusive. No one who kills himself is truly in his right mind. But, not all who kill themselves are clinically depressed. Sorry, I just don't buy that. See my examples a page or two back for more clarification on that.

It's too convenient of an out and it makes it all too easy for people to lapse into destructive behaviors when they believe that it's common place for people to do ridiculous things just because things are hard at work or in the personal life. That's what I believe this over-diagnosing and coddling of all people who mope around following a tough break-up or job layoff have done to us as a society. Particularly, when it come to younger people, depression is "in." That's ridiculous.

I really believe in the resiliency of the human spirit, as I myself have had a hell of a half year here in recent months personally, and I am still happy today after suffering through some sleepless months and what not as a result of what was going on in my life. I think a lot of people lose their will to fight when they know it's so convenient to be depressed today.

I just wish there was a more positive message for most people instead of just "Life got ya down? Here, take some pills and lay on my couch!"

I really think that for many, an unnecessary depression diagnosis can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Jana]

Well, Matt, you're not wrong in a lot of what you said. But you started out in this whole thread without an ounce of compassion for this guy and immediately taking a stance. Black and White from the get go, imo, re suicide and depression.

Re regular depression, I feel it is terribly used as an excuse and overdiagnosed by GPs and give an antidepressant like a piece of candy. My feeling is, in this day and age, too many people focus inward and complaining how unhappy they are and it actually feeds on it. When the same people get up in the morning and start moving and out of the house in the morning to a job and are busy all day, surprisingly half of their problems go away b/c they're not spending the day focusing on themselves. I speak from experience from that happening years ago when I took off from work and it surprisingly made my problems exacerbated and exaggerated and me, me, me. And many psychiatrists just throw pills at people. It is shocking, actually.

Having said that, there is real depression, stituational, clinical, on and on, and it's a horrible state to be in and those people can't just decide to be happy. What many on here have seen is your and St. John's lack of compassion and flippant remarks on some of the subject, b/c it really is a change in the chemistry of the brain, and some people have it most of their lives and antidepressants make them able to live a productive life. Re suicide, maybe for some it's the easy way out and selfish and maybe not clinical depression, but, to me, it's still sad that at that moment this seems the only option to them, and they have my compassion. But I would bet the majority it is severe depression and they're in a really bad, dark, hopeless state that is causing them physical and psychic pain.

[steveo777]

Well, Matt, you're not wrong in a lot of what you said. But you started out in this whole thread without an ounce of compassion for this guy and immediately taking a stance. Black and White from the get go, imo, re suicide and depression.

Re regular depression, I feel it is terribly used as an excuse and overdiagnosed by GPs and give an antidepressant like a piece of candy. My feeling is, in this day and age, too many people focus inward and complaining how unhappy they are and it actually feeds on it. When the same people get up in the morning and start moving and out of the house in the morning to a job and are busy all day, surprisingly half of their problems go away b/c they're not spending the day focusing on themselves. I speak from experience from that happening years ago when I took off from work and it surprisingly made my problems exacerbated and exaggerated and me, me, me. And many psychiatrists just throw pills at people. It is shocking, actually.

Having said that, there is real depression, stituational, clinical, on and on, and it's a horrible state to be in and those people can't just decide to be happy. What many on here have seen is your and St. John's lack of compassion and flippant remarks on some of the subject, b/c it really is a change in the chemistry of the brain, and some people have it most of their lives and antidepressants make them able to live a productive life. Re suicide, maybe for some it's the easy way out and selfish and maybe not clinical depression, but, to me, it's still sad that at that moment this seems the only option to them. But I would bet the majority it is severe depression and they're in a really bad, dark, hopeless state that is causing them physical and psychic pain.

Well said Jana.

Remember this statement from JSS?

"It is with deep regret and remorse I, along with fellow members of TALISMAN, am announcing our brother, longtime colleague and overall greatest musician we've ever played with, Marcel Jacob, is no longer with us as of today, Tuesday July 21, 2009. Marcel took his own life after many years of personal and health issues he was battling."

I didn't recall seeing a bunch of lashing out at Marcel over this. It seemed those closest to him understood the pain he had been going through. How can any of us pretend to understand what anyone is actually going through? Yet we judge.

[Behshad]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

[yulog]

Well, Matt, you're not wrong in a lot of what you said. But you started out in this whole thread without an ounce of compassion for this guy and immediately taking a stance. Black and White from the get go, imo, re suicide and depression.

Re regular depression, I feel it is terribly used as an excuse and overdiagnosed by GPs and give an antidepressant like a piece of candy. My feeling is, in this day and age, too many people focus inward and complaining how unhappy they are and it actually feeds on it. When the same people get up in the morning and start moving and out of the house in the morning to a job and are busy all day, surprisingly half of their problems go away b/c they're not spending the day focusing on themselves. I speak from experience from that happening years ago when I took off from work and it surprisingly made my problems exacerbated and exaggerated and me, me, me. And many psychiatrists just throw pills at people. It is shocking, actually.

Having said that, there is real depression, stituational, clinical, on and on, and it's a horrible state to be in and those people can't just decide to be happy. What many on here have seen is your and St. John's lack of compassion and flippant remarks on some of the subject, b/c it really is a change in the chemistry of the brain, and some people have it most of their lives and antidepressants make them able to live a productive life. Re suicide, maybe for some it's the easy way out and selfish and maybe not clinical depression, but, to me, it's still sad that at that moment this seems the only option to them. But I would bet the majority it is severe depression and they're in a really bad, dark, hopeless state that is causing them physical and psychic pain.

Well said Jana.

Remember this statement from JSS?

"It is with deep regret and remorse I, along with fellow members of TALISMAN, am announcing our brother, longtime colleague and overall greatest musician we've ever played with, Marcel Jacob, is no longer with us as of today, Tuesday July 21, 2009. Marcel took his own life after many years of personal and health issues he was battling."

I didn't recall seeing a bunch of lashing out at Marcel over this. It seemed those closest to him understood the pain he had been going through. How can any of us pretend to understand what anyone is actually going through? Yet we judge.

ouch

[Ehwmatt]

Well, Matt, you're not wrong in a lot of what you said. But you started out in this whole thread without an ounce of compassion for this guy and immediately taking a stance. Black and White from the get go, imo, re suicide and depression.

Re regular depression, I feel it is terribly used as an excuse and overdiagnosed by GPs and give an antidepressant like a piece of candy. My feeling is, in this day and age, too many people focus inward and complaining how unhappy they are and it actually feeds on it. When the same people get up in the morning and start moving and out of the house in the morning to a job and are busy all day, surprisingly half of their problems go away b/c they're not spending the day focusing on themselves. I speak from experience from that happening years ago when I took off from work and it surprisingly made my problems exacerbated and exaggerated and me, me, me. And many psychiatrists just throw pills at people. It is shocking, actually.

Having said that there is real depression, stituational, clinical, on and on, and it's a horrible state to be in and those people can't just decide to be happy. What many on here have seen is your and St. John's lack of compassion and flippant remarks on some of the subject, b/c it really is a change in the chemistry of the brain, and some people have it most of their lives and antidepressants make them able to live a productive life. Re suicide, maybe for some it's the easy way out and selfish and maybe not clinical depression, but, to me, it's still sad that at that moment this seems the only option to them. But I would bet the majority it is severe depression and they're in a really bad, dark, hopeless state that is causing them physical and psychic pain.

Jana, we were admittedly being satirical and shocking. That's not to say I don't mean what I say to an extent though. I have a strong skeptic's eye when it comes to celebs and their so-called depression because I believe that even those who legitimately end up having mental problems caused them on their own through severe substance abuse.

I just really don't have a lot of sympathy for that kinda situation in most scenarios. Unfortunately, more often than not, my suspicions are proved 100% right in the wake of autopsies and biographical look-backs on the demised celeb's substance-laden life. I'm going to feel a lot worse for people whose circumstances leading to their depression were totally out of their control and totally organic. I really don't want to get into another debate about whether alcoholism and drug addiction are diseases because even if they are, you still have to make a choice to get drunk or high those first few times to start the whole thing a-rollin and from there, honestly, my sympathy is highly curtailed if not extinguished.

Furthermore, I couldn't pick this guy out from a New York waiter hoping to make it on Broadway, I don't know what he looks like it or what he was in, so it's not like his death devastated me like Brad Delp's did. Hell, I don't even know his name besides "Boner."

Finally, we have plenty of compassion even in the most voluntary of these types of situations - for the family members, not necessarily the deceased him/herself. It's all about circumstances, and with celebs, they're usually pretty much one size fits all.

[Behshad]

Nothing to ouch about Yule. Quit being a mini-Parfait

[Voyager]

Depression is "more than a feeling". RIP Brad Delp.

[steveo777]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

[Ehwmatt]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

Everyone's been there. Interestingly enough, neither you nor I or most other people choose to kill ourselves over it.

[Behshad]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

you're right. But I think 9 out 10 people who commit suicide cause of depression/emotional pain , couldve been saved , had they not been given the anti-depression pills.

Just look at the number one side effect of most these pills : increased suicide thoughts !!

[steveo777]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

you're right. But I think 9 out 10 people who commit suicide cause of depression/emotional pain , couldve been saved , had they not been given the anti-depression pills.

Just look at the number one side effect of most these pills : increased suicide thoughts !!

One other biggie for sexually functional men is the possibility of decreased libido or the fact they can make you unable to have sex at all. Now that in itself is depressing! Who wants to be getting a BJ, then experience retrograde ejaculation, as an example?

[Jana]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

Well, chronic pain goes hand in hand with depression. It leads to an extrememly depressed state. I deal with people in horrible physical pain all the time. Listening to them in depos, it's terribly sad and you see how it's taken over their lives. But most don't take their lives; though, almost all, in testimony, have admitted to having suicidal ideation and had to go on antidepressants along with their pain management protocol. But, according to some on here, should we not feel understanding for what Marcel went though and think him weak and selfish for taking his life? Of course not. I understand it. And I only lived with horrible, unrelenting back pain for a little under two years after an injury, and it was literally hell on earth to be in physical pain day in and day out never letting up, and people who haven't experienced it have zero compassion or understanding for the most part. They're like take a pill and the pain will go away. Not. I'm lucky. I came out of it, but I have such compassion for people with chronic physical pain that I probably never fully did b/f. And if my pain had continued for years and years unrelenting and never cured, I don't know what kind of life that would have been, not much of one.

[YoungJRNY]

You know what this thread is in SERIOUS need of?

[Ehwmatt]

You know what this thread is in SERIOUS need of?

How could anyone kill themselves when there are such wonderful things in this life?

[steveo777]

Thanks for the two..ehem, antidepressants!

You know what this thread is in SERIOUS need of?

[Jana]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

you're right. But I think 9 out 10 people who commit suicide cause of depression/emotional pain , couldve been saved , had they not been given the anti-depression pills.

Just look at the number one side effect of most these pills : increased suicide thoughts !!

I don't know. I can't believe nine out of ten could have been saved had they not been given an anti-depressent. Where did you get that info? A a
small percentage, I would imagine, but it does happen. My father was suicidal after the death of my mother, and the right anti-depressant saved him literally. I saw the difference almost immediately. I kissed the ground thankful for that pill for my father.

[artist4perry]

Thanks for the two..ehem, antidepressants!

You know what this thread is in SERIOUS need of?

They don't seem to do anything to cheer me up.......and I have two atatched...........

[Saint John]

They don't seem to do anything to cheer me up.......and I have two attached

They're probably not as much fun when you can tuck them in your socks.

[steveo777]

Thanks for the two..ehem, antidepressants!

You know what this thread is in SERIOUS need of?

They don't seem to do anything to cheer me up.......and I have two atatched...........

Ginger, I'm at work and can't post images. I was gonna show you my nuts and see if that would help. (A can of Planter's peanuts).

[artist4perry]

They don't seem to do anything to cheer me up.......and I have two attached

They're probably not as much fun when you can tuck them in your socks.

Dan, you peeked!





Are yours roasted Stevo?

[Behshad]

They don't seem to do anything to cheer me up.......and I have two attached

They're probably not as much fun when you can tuck them in your socks.

[parfait]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

you're right. But I think 9 out 10 people who commit suicide cause of depression/emotional pain , couldve been saved , had they not been given the anti-depression pills.

Just look at the number one side effect of most these pills : increased suicide thoughts !!

Wow. That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever read in here. You can't be serious dr. Sherminator; medication is needed in any diagnosed depressed person's treatment, cause it's a CHEMICAL unbalance in his/hers own body.

Don't reply. Don't quote it. Spare me the stupid remarks, and go look in the mirror, and ask yourself: Holy fucking jesus on a bicycle; am I really that retarded?

Yes. Yes you are, Beshad.

[Behshad]

Marcel was in physical pain pretty much 24/7. Arthiritis & carpal tunnel is what got to him , not depresssion.

I understand that but sometimes emotional pain is just as bad for some people and it is one of the components of depression. It's also 24/7. I've been there. Thank God I'm out of that few years of hell.

you're right. But I think 9 out 10 people who commit suicide cause of depression/emotional pain , couldve been saved , had they not been given the anti-depression pills.

Just look at the number one side effect of most these pills : increased suicide thoughts !!

Wow. That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever read in here. You can't be serious dr. Sherminator; medication is needed in any diagnosed depressed person's treatment, cause it's a CHEMICAL unbalance in his/hers own body.

Don't reply. Don't quote it. Spare me the stupid remarks, and go look in the mirror, and ask yourself: Holy fucking jesus on a bicycle; am I really that retarded?

Yes. Yes you are, Beshad.

Listen PeePeeBarfait, When they give people pills with the side effect of increased suicidal thoughts , then you know damn well how good that fucking medicine is.
Of course leave it up to a 19 year old French kid to know better than the rest of us





It's funny how anyone that is remotely connected to the medical field thinks that pills are the solution to everything. Job security, perhaps?!

[Behshad]

More info for Dr PeePee

Antidepressants include a class of drugs known as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors or “SSRIs,” such as fluoxetine (Prozac), manufactured by Eli Lilly and Company, sertraline (Zoloft), manufactured by Pfizer, escitalopram (Lexapro) and citalopram (Celexa) manufactured by Forest Labs. Antidepressants also include a class of drugs known as Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors or "SNRIs" such as venlafaxine hydrochloride (Effexor), manufactured by Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, Inc., and duloxetine hydrochloride (Cymbalta) manufactured by Eli Lilly and Company.

Although each of these SSRI manufacturers admit they do not know how their respective drugs work, each claim that they help to correct a “chemical imbalance of the brain.” The assumption for each of these drugs is that if a person is depressed (each and every depressed person), there is a reduced level of the neurotransmitter serotonin in their brains. As one well-known psychiatrist put it: “[SSRIs] are not correcting a biochemical imbalance, these drugs create severe imbalances in the brain. ... The idea that human suffering, psychological suffering, is biochemical is strictly a promotional campaign, perhaps the most successful in the history of the world, created by the drug companies. We do not even have a technology, a scientific technology, for measuring what happens inside the brain ... it is literally a fabrication."

[Jana]

More info for Dr PeePee

Antidepressants include a class of drugs known as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors or “SSRIs,” such as fluoxetine (Prozac), manufactured by Eli Lilly and Company, sertraline (Zoloft), manufactured by Pfizer, escitalopram (Lexapro) and citalopram (Celexa) manufactured by Forest Labs. Antidepressants also include a class of drugs known as Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors or "SNRIs" such as venlafaxine hydrochloride (Effexor), manufactured by Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, Inc., and duloxetine hydrochloride (Cymbalta) manufactured by Eli Lilly and Company.

Although each of these SSRI manufacturers admit they do not know how their respective drugs work, each claim that they help to correct a “chemical imbalance of the brain.” The assumption for each of these drugs is that if a person is depressed (each and every depressed person), there is a reduced level of the neurotransmitter serotonin in their brains. As one well-known psychiatrist put it: “[SSRIs] are not correcting a biochemical imbalance, these drugs create severe imbalances in the brain. ... The idea that human suffering, psychological suffering, is biochemical is strictly a promotional campaign, perhaps the most successful in the history of the world, created by the drug companies. We do not even have a technology, a scientific technology, for measuring what happens inside the brain ... it is literally a fabrication."

B, you're Tom Cruise, aren't you? I knew it.

[Behshad]

Is Tom Cruise related to Fact Finder ?!

[Jana]

Is Tom Cruise related to Fact Finder ?!

Tom Cruise on psychiatry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwAaHbmF5S4