President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[conversationpc]

i was on scholarships, grants and loans for my undergrad as well as my graduate degree. i pay my loans every month and am so glad obama has instituted the income based repayment as my loan payments will drop a few hundred bucks a month. also the loan forgiveness after 120 payments (on time, not in default, etc) for service type careers is a blessing.

ultimately the feds own student loans. if you go into default the feds pick it up and find you. good thing to cut out the middle man.

Maybe it's just me but I've always disliked the notion that you can have your debt forgiven because of your chosen career. Just because I didn't go into a "service" career means I should have to pay more than someone who did? I can see a possible exception for a military career but the whole notion just really bugs me.

[Lula]

i was on scholarships, grants and loans for my undergrad as well as my graduate degree. i pay my loans every month and am so glad obama has instituted the income based repayment as my loan payments will drop a few hundred bucks a month. also the loan forgiveness after 120 payments (on time, not in default, etc) for service type careers is a blessing.
b';
ultimately the feds own student loans. if you go into default the feds pick it up and find you. good thing to cut out the middle man.

Maybe it's just me but I've always disliked the notion that you can have your debt forgiven because of your chosen career. Just because I didn't go into a "service" career means I should have to pay more than someone who did? I can see a possible exception for a military career but the whole notion just really bugs me.

don't mean to bug you, well not too much anyway

i think it is fair based on the returns. the amount a teacher makes in comparison to the needed education is not balanced. i'm not looking for sympathy, i do alright. the hours, continuing education, exams, are all costly and if one makes a career of educating our little angels i see no harm in loan relief benefit. the relief is not only from the feds, states offer it to for teachers in high need areas. if the market was overflowing with qualified candidates there wouldn't be a need for the fringe benefit of loan relief.

[Ehwmatt]

i was on scholarships, grants and loans for my undergrad as well as my graduate degree. i pay my loans every month and am so glad obama has instituted the income based repayment as my loan payments will drop a few hundred bucks a month. also the loan forgiveness after 120 payments (on time, not in default, etc) for service type careers is a blessing.
b';
ultimately the feds own student loans. if you go into default the feds pick it up and find you. good thing to cut out the middle man.

Maybe it's just me but I've always disliked the notion that you can have your debt forgiven because of your chosen career. Just because I didn't go into a "service" career means I should have to pay more than someone who did? I can see a possible exception for a military career but the whole notion just really bugs me.

don't mean to bug you, well not too much anyway

i think it is fair based on the returns. the amount a teacher makes in comparison to the needed education is not balanced. i'm not looking for sympathy, i do alright. the hours, continuing education, exams, are all costly and if one makes a career of educating our little angels i see no harm in loan relief benefit. the relief is not only from the feds, states offer it to for teachers in high need areas. if the market was overflowing with qualified candidates there wouldn't be a need for the fringe benefit of loan relief.

So long as there's a need for the teacher/physician/whatever, I don't mind it either. I do think it should be merit based if it isn't already. You should get a few years to perform well before you get any benefit of going into the field, then the benefit should kick in.

[Lula]

So long as there's a need, I don't mind it either. I do think it should be merit based if it isn't already. You should get a few years to perform well before you get any benefit of going into the field, then the benefit should kick in.

teachers, at least in my district, are on probation for 2 years. merit based is tricky. you have to look at the population as well. i teach children with various learning and orthopedic disabilities and merit based pay would look very different than a classroom with students performing at grade level. i'm all for cleaning house and sending bad teachers packing as well as administrators.

loan relief is gradual in CA, it doesn't start until you are credentialed and is only given per years of service in the high need areas. fed loan relief is after 10 years of good repayment.

[Ehwmatt]

So long as there's a need, I don't mind it either. I do think it should be merit based if it isn't already. You should get a few years to perform well before you get any benefit of going into the field, then the benefit should kick in.

teachers, at least in my district, are on probation for 2 years. merit based is tricky. you have to look at the population as well. i teach children with various learning and orthopedic disabilities and merit based pay would look very different than a classroom with students performing at grade level. i'm all for cleaning house and sending bad teachers packing as well as administrators.

loan relief is gradual in CA, it doesn't start until you are credentialed and is only given per years of service in the high need areas. fed loan relief is after 10 years of good repayment.

I see. I realize merit based is tough if based on student progress. I guess I was mainly thinking of the lazy types who do the bare minimum, are out sick a lot, and come to class unprepared with lesson plans and so forth. They're out there, I'm sure you know that better than me from some of your colleagues. Those people shouldn't get any benefits.

[7 Wishes]

Perhaps one should think of the sacrifices teachers make - they usually work 50-60 hours per week, have an extremely important function in society, and yet are universally underpaid. I don't have a problem giving a good teacher loan relief after 10 years.

[Rockindeano]

Where does the sense of entitlement of other peoples money come from? When does it end?

Shut your fucking trap.

Answer me these easy questions and then we'll talk.

1- What type of school did you go to?
2-Do you drive on an interstate or public road to get places?
3-Have you ever used an airport?
4-Do you eat meat or seafood from your local supermarket?
5-Do you sleep well at night, knowing your protected from invasion or attack?

If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, then you FF have leaned on the Government to ease your way of life. If you are insinuating teachers are a fucking "entitlement," you need to pull your head out of your asshole. Most teachers work 50 hours a week, pay out of their own pockets for classroom supplies and genuinely care about their students. Not everyone can be a teacher.

If you answered "no" to any of these questions, then you are a liar.

[Saint John]

Perhaps one should think of the sacrifices teachers make -

I'm listening.

they usually work 50-60 hours per week,

No, they don't. 90% of them work nowhere near this amount.

have an extremely important function in society,

Agreed.

and yet are universally underpaid.

No way. No fucking way. Chicago teachers start at 40+ thousand and that's for a 6 and a half hour day. Most can complete all of their work in an 8 hour day, have an incredible amount of days off for holidays and the entire summer. They're paid just fine.

I don't have a problem giving a good teacher loan relief after 10 years.

I do. You borrow, you pay. No exceptions.

[Rockindeano]

and yet are universally underpaid.

No way. No fucking way. Chicago teachers start at 40+ thousand and that's for a 6 and a half hour day. Most can complete all of their work in an 8 hour day, have an incredible amount of days off for holidays and the entire summer. They're paid just fine.

Bullshit. Teachers do a lot of prep work at home, before school meetings, after school meetings and like I said before, shop and pay out of their pocket for classroom supplies. Dan, you are a smart guy, but you need to investigate this issue a lot more in order to be informed on this. You're flat out wrong here.

I don't have a problem giving a good teacher loan relief after 10 years.

I do. You borrow, you pay. No exceptions.

You just said it's a job instrumental in society. Teachers sacrifice, literally sacrifice in order to help the greater good. The pay is not great and the locations can be something terrible. Lula works in downtown shithole Los Angeles, a mile away from gang activity. Most of the kids are problem kids, through o fault of their own, as they come from single parent homes and drug infested fathers, etc. Loan forgiveness is a way to reward them for doing a job not desired by many, but hopefully appreciated by most. The loan forgiveness is a great idea and one that will also probably be implemented in the medical field now that the health care system has been revamped.

[conversationpc]

The loan forgiveness is a great idea and one that will also probably be implemented in the medical field now that the health care system has been revamped.

It's also a way to make it more expensive if you are forgiving loans that are providing income to the government.

[yulog]

Teaching is not about making money in the beginning, its about the free money and unbelievable benefits they get when they retire. One of the few fields left where you can work and get a real pension. For every shithole place to teach in the U.S, there's 2 nice countryclub type places where you can work.

You have a choice where to teach(you don't have to stay in the crappy places) ,and if you gave everyone summers off i'm sure you would see salaries in a lot of other areas drop to lower than 40k a year to start. Teachers may start out a little slow but they finish huge at the end, you really can't say that about most other jobs.

[Rockindeano]

The loan forgiveness is a great idea and one that will also probably be implemented in the medical field now that the health care system has been revamped.

It's also a way to make it more expensive if you are forgiving loans that are providing income to the government.

Who gives a shit? The US forgives billion dollar loans all the time to Mexico and other third world states. At least with teachers you are getting an vital domestic service for your dollar.

[conversationpc]

Who gives a shit? The US forgives billion dollar loans all the time to Mexico and other third world states. At least with teachers you are getting an vital domestic service for your dollar.

A great example of the kind of thinking that helped get us into this mess in the first place.

[Rockindeano]

Who gives a shit? The US forgives billion dollar loans all the time to Mexico and other third world states. At least with teachers you are getting an vital domestic service for your dollar.

A great example of the kind of thinking that helped get us into this mess in the first place.

Oh I see, only Democratic presidents have forgiven international loans, never a republican.

Dude, what have you to say about the IRS cutting deals to folks who owe and can't pay the entire amount?

[conversationpc]

Oh I see, only Democratic presidents have forgiven international loans, never a republican.

I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth (something you're good at...).

Dude, what have you to say about the IRS cutting deals to folks who owe and can't pay the entire amount?

If people are truly under hardship and CANNOT pay all, I don't have a problem with the law making a way for them to pay as much as they're able. Most teachers are able to pay their loans. It may be difficult but they can do it. My wife and I don't make a ton of money and we paid ours off by ourselves.

[Lula]

Look I'm not saying I am entitled to anything. I'm also not a fool and if there are programs in place for teachers, darn tootin I'm signing up. Not everyone can or wants to serve the population I do. Did not go into teaching to get rich, lol, or to get a handout. I'd be teaching no matter what.

Dan stop hating on the teachers, most of us bust our asses for our students!

[conversationpc]

...most of us bust our asses for our students!

I hope it's better than when I was going through public school. I can only remember a handful of teachers out of the dozens I had that would EVER stay after school to help students who needed it. I know one in particular, whom I can thank for being who I am today, who stayed after school several times a week, it not every day. He also held a Bible study at his house once a week, took students to sports events on his own time, etc., and STILL does. Unfortunately, most of the other teachers didn't seem to give a flying crap or very little of one anyway.

[hoagiepete]

Dude, what have you to say about the IRS cutting deals to folks who owe and can't pay the entire amount?

I don't think the IRS should make deals. If someone owes taxes...it is technically ours...the peoples. If they don't pay, they are making the law abiding taxpayers to eventually pay more to make up the difference.

I turn the channel every time a commercial comes on from some schiester claiming they can help you screw the IRS. Showing the actors gloating over how well they came out makes me sick. Don't get me wrong, I think we all pay too much in taxes, but you need to follow the law. These guys selling this service are in same disgusting category as ambulance chaser and work comp lawyers. I feel dirty and slimey just writing about them.

[Lula]

I don't stay after school much since I became a momma, but I used to at least 3 days a week. Now I work through lunch if kids want to hang out. The teachers at my school are fantastic. But of course there are bad apples.

[conversationpc]

I don't stay after school much since I became a momma, but I used to at least 3 days a week. Now I work through lunch if kids want to hang out. The teachers at my school are fantastic. But of course there are bad apples.

I had one teacher that showed movies for most of the class almost every day. Another who would go off on rabbit trails and talk about everything but the lesson. He would also let us correct each other's quizzes and you know how THAT turned out. At the time, it was great but now I wish they had been harder on us.

[hoagiepete]

Regarding teachers...God bless the good ones that have made teaching our children their profession.

Having three kids, one still in HS and another in GS, we have seen great teachers that truly commit themselves to the kids and some awfull ones that without tenure would and should be fired. Some are way underpaid and others are way overpaid. That's what comes with a profession dominated by a union. You're all treated the same as your brothers and sisters, regardless of how well you perform in the classroom.

Tenure is a tricky thing, because I know good teachers could be ruined by one influential parent that thinks their Johnny got a bad grade he didn't deserve. However, tenure keeps way too many deadbeats in the classroom. Somehow there needs to be some middle ground.

I think good teachers should be paid more, much more. I think poor teachers should be removed from the classroom. Neither are happening.

[Lula]

I don't stay after school much since I became a momma, but I used to at least 3 days a week. Now I work through lunch if kids want to hang out. The teachers at my school are fantastic. But of course there are bad apples.

I had one teacher that showed movies for most of the class almost every day. Another who would go off on rabbit trails and talk about everything but the lesson. He would also let us correct each other's quizzes and you know how THAT turned out. At the time, it was great but now I wish they had been harder on us.

i rarely show movies. when i do they are tied to a lesson. i use coach carter to teach about hard work, high expectations, team work, etc... and the movie is to help with a state standard for responding to literature. not many of the students in my class have solid reading skills, so the movie is a helping tool. i also have stocked my classroom with books i had been buying for my son- dr. seuss early/beginner readers so my students have stuff to read. i'm a huge advocate of independent silent reading and have seen students that take reading seriously grow a grade level in 4 months. i've probably got $500 worth of reading material just this year alone- out of pocket. seeing students excel and grow makes it all worth it. teaching is my purpose, i'm very lucky to do what i do.

[conversationpc]

I don't stay after school much since I became a momma, but I used to at least 3 days a week. Now I work through lunch if kids want to hang out. The teachers at my school are fantastic. But of course there are bad apples.

I had one teacher that showed movies for most of the class almost every day. Another who would go off on rabbit trails and talk about everything but the lesson. He would also let us correct each other's quizzes and you know how THAT turned out. At the time, it was great but now I wish they had been harder on us.

i rarely show movies. when i do they are tied to a lesson. i use coach carter to teach about hard work, high expectations, team work, etc... and the movie is to help with a state standard for responding to literature. not many of the students in my class have solid reading skills, so the movie is a helping tool. i also have stocked my classroom with books i had been buying for my son- dr. seuss early/beginner readers so my students have stuff to read. i'm a huge advocate of independent silent reading and have seen students that take reading seriously grow a grade level in 4 months. i've probably got $500 worth of reading material just this year alone- out of pocket. seeing students excel and grow makes it all worth it. teaching is my purpose, i'm very lucky to do what i do.

Regardless of your incorrect political beliefs... ...I'm guessing you're probably a great teacher and I wouldn't mind a bit having you as a teacher for one of my kids.

[Lula]

I know it's not the norm but just 15 or so years ago, we busted my sons teacher giving the kids the answers to the SAT test for 6th graders. All she cared about was making it look as if she was a good teacher. 7 sets of parents, us included, went to the district with the concern. Guess what, "she was tenured, and there not much we can do without more clearcut evidence" and 5 weeks later they quietly moved her to a neighboring school within the district. We are supposedly one of the top 3 or 4 school districts in the State.

not cool! teachers like this need to be fired. i go against the grain with the whole tenure thing. if one does not do the job as expected
they need to be let go. i also can appreciate our union when negotiations come into play. our district wants us to take 5 furlough days this school year and seven next school year. they planned on using the money in another area of the budget rather than save jobs and keep class sizes as they are. i'll take the pay cut, but only if teachers and nurses are not cut and k-3 is returned to 24-1. the district wastes so much money it makes me sick.

[Lula]

Regardless of your incorrect political beliefs... ...I'm guessing you're probably a great teacher and I wouldn't mind a bit having you as a teacher for one of my kids.

awww thanks dave xoxo

now let's get back to sparring!! how about that health care reform? love it!!

[Lula]

Lula, I'm not kidding here, we had that teacher cheating, another who went to jail for poisoning neighborhood cats with anti-freeze, the baseball coach boffing a student (queitly let go, not prosecuted, all to keep the SCHOOL NAME good), and my son saw his 9th grade science teacher selling acid at Bonaroo Festival.

frightening, absolutely frightening. no one is above the law! i wonder if the science teacher cooked up his own batch of lsd?

[Saint John]

Bullshit. Teachers do a lot of prep work at home, before school meetings, after school meetings and like I said before, shop and pay out of their pocket for classroom supplies. Dan, you are a smart guy, but you need to investigate this issue a lot more in order to be informed on this. You're flat out wrong here.

I'm not wrong. Not even close to wrong. I was a substitute teacher for 4 years and hung out with, partied with and was tremendous friends with many teachers. I found that the diligent ones used their 20 minute lunch and 40 minute free period (every teacher got 1 "prep" class.) to sit there and check work, prepare for the next class, next day, etc. Very few, if any took work home, and if they did it was no more than an hour of work. The school structure allows for you to have minmal work to do at home, assuming you structure your days properly and are efficient.

You just said it's a job instrumental in society. Teachers sacrifice, literally sacrifice in order to help the greater good. The pay is not great and the locations can be something terrible. Lula works in downtown shithole Los Angeles, a mile away from gang activity. Most of the kids are problem kids, through o fault of their own, as they come from single parent homes and drug infested fathers, etc. Loan forgiveness is a way to reward them for doing a job not desired by many, but hopefully appreciated by most. The loan forgiveness is a great idea and one that will also probably be implemented in the medical field now that the health care system has been revamped.

Lula works in the worst state in the land, Dean. Home prices just aren't affordable in that 3rd world state. It's amazing that even in the worst ghettos that home prices are unaffordable. Hell, my buddy lives in a decent slab house in Alhambra and it would go for about $600,000. That's just insane. Anyway, a teacher in Chicago, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City or any other normally priced city with 10 years (I think she's taught at least that long) with a master's degree would be making about $60-70k annually ... more than enough to live comfortably. And then if you work after school programs, summer programs and/or coach sports, there's tons of other ways to make money. Teachers are paid just fine. Funny how the auto unions ruined the domestic auto industry, the steel unions ruined the steel industry and the teacher's union has us near the bottom among civilized nations. Though I think the inner city schools should be tossed from the test score pool. Those fuckers are just plain fucked up from generation to generation. I don't think it's a fixable problem and the long-legged sock monkey we have in office now will only further their ignorance. It promises his party votes forever. Because, after all, the democratic base is poor, ignorant, inner city trash. Why would he/they want to lose that? That's exactly why they're expanding their government dependence. Strategically brilliant, but morally and ethically disgusting.

[Ehwmatt]

Funny how the auto unions ruined the domestic auto industry, the steel unions ruined the steel industry and the teacher's union has us near the bottom among civilized nations. Though I think the inner city schools should be tossed from the test score pool. Those fuckers are just plain fucked up from generation to generation. I don't think it's a fixable problem and the long-legged sock monkey we have in office now will only further their ignorance. It promises his party votes forever. Because, after all, the democratic base is poor, ignorant, inner city trash. Why would he/they want to lose that? That's exactly why they're expanding their government dependence. Strategically brilliant, but morally and ethically disgusting.

Unions really have ruined everything, manufacturing, auto, teaching, hell, even baseball.. look at what the MLB players union has done there!

They were once really useful and even totally necessary. They did a lot of good to make it possible for the average American to work hard and earn a living wage for his family. Then they went overboard and the companies/municipalities kept caving to their ridiculous demands. It's been abused for so long it's not even funny.

[Rockindeano]

Bullshit. Teachers do a lot of prep work at home, before school meetings, after school meetings and like I said before, shop and pay out of their pocket for classroom supplies. Dan, you are a smart guy, but you need to investigate this issue a lot more in order to be informed on this. You're flat out wrong here.

I'm not wrong. Not even close to wrong. I was a substitute teacher for 4 years and hung out with, partied with and was tremendous friends with many teachers. I found that the diligent ones used their 20 minute lunch and 40 minute free period (every teacher got 1 "prep" class.) to sit there and check work, prepare for the next class, next day, etc. Very few, if any took work home, and if they did it was no more than an hour of work. The school structure allows for you to have minmal work to do at home, assuming you structure your days properly and are efficient.

You just said it's a job instrumental in society. Teachers sacrifice, literally sacrifice in order to help the greater good. The pay is not great and the locations can be something terrible. Lula works in downtown shithole Los Angeles, a mile away from gang activity. Most of the kids are problem kids, through o fault of their own, as they come from single parent homes and drug infested fathers, etc. Loan forgiveness is a way to reward them for doing a job not desired by many, but hopefully appreciated by most. The loan forgiveness is a great idea and one that will also probably be implemented in the medical field now that the health care system has been revamped.

Lula works in the worst state in the land, Dean. Home prices just aren't affordable in that 3rd world state. It's amazing that even in the worst ghettos that home prices are unaffordable. Hell, my buddy lives in a decent slab house in Alhambra and it would go for about $600,000. That's just insane. Anyway, a teacher in Chicago, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City or any other normally priced city with 10 years (I think she's taught at least that long) with a master's degree would be making about $60-70k annually ... more than enough to live comfortably. And then if you work after school programs, summer programs and/or coach sports, there's tons of other ways to make money. Teachers are paid just fine. Funny how the auto unions ruined the domestic auto industry, the steel unions ruined the steel industry and the teacher's union has us near the bottom among civilized nations. Though I think the inner city schools should be tossed from the test score pool. Those fuckers are just plain fucked up from generation to generation. I don't think it's a fixable problem and the long-legged sock monkey we have in office now will only further their ignorance. It promises his party votes forever. Because, after all, the democratic base is poor, ignorant, inner city trash. Why would he/they want to lose that? That's exactly why they're expanding their government dependence. Strategically brilliant, but morally and ethically disgusting.

Good points on all BUT California.

Tell me why California is home to the most US transplants? This state is no different than other right now. They are ALL hurting, but you know damned well we will come out of the recession first and will prosper more than any state, period. I bet when you wake up to go to work at 6AM on say December 28th, you wished you were in California. I know Dan....the weather alone is worth the price of a more expensive home.

No other state in this nation possesses what California does: Mountains, beaches, deserts, fertile valleys or vibrant cities. We feed the nation. We lead the nation in everything. Sure there is a beaner problem, but Hell, that's damned near everywhere. We have the Golden Gate Bridge and the Sierra Nevada's; we have Disneyland and the golden beaches, and we have the most livable weather you will find in the entire world.

Beat that Daniel son.

[Rockindeano]

Funny how the auto unions ruined the domestic auto industry, the steel unions ruined the steel industry and the teacher's union has us near the bottom among civilized nations. Though I think the inner city schools should be tossed from the test score pool. Those fuckers are just plain fucked up from generation to generation. I don't think it's a fixable problem and the long-legged sock monkey we have in office now will only further their ignorance. It promises his party votes forever. Because, after all, the democratic base is poor, ignorant, inner city trash. Why would he/they want to lose that? That's exactly why they're expanding their government dependence. Strategically brilliant, but morally and ethically disgusting.

Unions really have ruined everything, manufacturing, auto, teaching, hell, even baseball.. look at what the MLB players union has done there!

They were once really useful and even totally necessary. They did a lot of good to make it possible for the average American to work hard and earn a living wage for his family. Then they went overboard and the companies/municipalities kept caving to their ridiculous demands. It's been abused for so long it's not even funny.

Agreed. I AM a worker in a union and while it is nice to enjoy the benefits it offers, unions are complete bullshit. They over reach and destroy companies. I am with you guys on this, absolutely.