President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:30 am



The only irrefutable is that oh show you are an idiot daily, and over use the word irrefutable.

Both of your "sources" are liberal groups. That's a fact. I am not defending Fox....they have a conservative bent for sure, but only in their commentary pieces...Beck, Hannity etc...their news is right down the middle. I was pointing out that using TNC's logic it would be correct to say Fox is unbiased.

And oh you have fucking nerve to say I don't think for myself....cosidering where you Cut and paste our "irrefutable" bullshit from.

Face it...all the oxygen going to your muscles has caused you to have brain damage.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:31 am

slucero wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
So using your argument Fox isn't right leaning. Gotcha.


Image


Huh? I must be missing something. Fox News is run by Rush Limbaugh's former producer (think of the outrage if James Carville ran CNN). Top FOX execs openly admit their mission is to be the voice of the opposition. Not comparable AT ALL. And even if it was, why are you engaging in another bogus equivocation game? You yourself have said repeatedly, (to the point of self-parody actually), that a wrong does not make a right. Yet here you are again breaking your own BS forum rules.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:39 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
slucero wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
So using your argument Fox isn't right leaning. Gotcha.


Image


Huh? I must be missing something. Fox News is run by Rush Limbaugh's former producer (think of the outrage if James Carville ran CNN). Top FOX execs openly admit their mission is to be the voice of the opposition. Not comparable AT ALL. And even if it was, why are you engaging in another bogus equivocation game? You yourself have said repeatedly, (to the point of self-parody actually), that a wrong does not make a right. Yet here you are again breaking your own BS forum rules.

What the fuck are you talking about? I was just saying that using your arguement I could say Fox isn't conservative. The Gotcha wasnt an "oh I got you good"...I meant, sarcastically, I get what you are saying.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:56 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:What the fuck are you talking about? I was just saying that using your arguement I could say Fox isn't conservative. The Gotcha wasnt an "oh I got you good"...I meant, sarcastically, I get what you are saying.


My bad dude. Missed the sarcasm. Figured we were still at war.
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Postby Saint John » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:01 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Bill Clinton dismantled welfare. Its benefits are not generous and contrary to popular (and racist) belief, most of the recipients are white.


This statement, while true in actual numbers, is totally false when you analyze the recipients proportionally.

Whites make up 38% of welfare recipients and blacks make up 37, but whites make up about 80% of the population while blacks make up about 12%. That equates to roughly 6 black people on welfare for every white one. But nice try at masking reality! :lol: :twisted:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:12 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:Both of your "sources" are liberal groups. That's a fact. I am not defending Fox....they have a conservative bent for sure, but only in their commentary pieces...Beck, Hannity etc...their news is right down the middle. I was pointing out that using TNC's logic it would be correct to say Fox is unbiased.

And oh you have fucking nerve to say I don't think for myself....cosidering where you Cut and paste our "irrefutable" bullshit from.

Face it...all the oxygen going to your muscles has caused you to have brain damage.


I love how you always resort to the steroid references when your pea brain is stumped.

The actual FACTS in those articles are NOT open for debate. The facts show you're wrong, that NPR is NOT a liberally biased organization, and that Fox is a tool of the GOP establishment. And no, Faux News is NOT right down the middle - every banner and headline is slanted to the right and antagonistic.

Try a fresh approach, Stewart.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:13 am

Saint John wrote:
Whites make up 38% of welfare recipients and blacks make up 37, but whites make up about 80% of the population while blacks make up about 12%. That equates to roughly 6 black people on welfare for every white one. But nice try at masking reality! :lol: :twisted:


If those numbers are true, I stand corrected. Let the record clearly show that I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Unlike FF and RWF, my world does not revolve around this shit. Sure, it would be nice if the Democrats held onto the majority. If not, big whoop. It's alot easier bitching from the outside anyway.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:17 am

It looks like Dan is accurate on this one.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/7Welfare.htm

In March 1987, the General Accounting Office released a report that summarized more than one hundred studies of welfare since 1975. It found that "research does not support the view that welfare encourages two-parent family breakup" or that it significantly reduces the incentive to work.11
11 The GOA report was summarized in Frances Piven and Richard Cloward, "The Historical Sources of the Contemporary Relief Debate," The Mean Season: The Attack on the Welfare State, Fred Block, Richard Cloward, Barbara Ehrenriech and France Piven, eds., (New York: Pantheon, 1987), pp. 58-62.

Traits of families on AFDC10

Race
White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4

Time on AFDC
Less than 7 months 19.0%
7 to 12 months 15.2
One to two years 19.3
Two to five years 26.9
Over five years 19.6

Number of children
One 43.2%
Two 30.7
Three 15.8
Four or more 10.3

Age of Mother
Teenager 7.6%
20 - 29 47.9
30 - 39 32.7
40 or older 11.8

Status of Father 1973 1992
Divorced or separated 46.5% 28.6
Deceased 5.0 1.6
Unemployed or Disabled 14.3 9.0
Not married to mother 31.5 55.3
Other or Unknown 2.7 5.5
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Postby Saint John » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:18 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Whites make up 38% of welfare recipients and blacks make up 37, but whites make up about 80% of the population while blacks make up about 12%. That equates to roughly 6 black people on welfare for every white one. But nice try at masking reality! :lol: :twisted:


If those numbers are true, I stand corrected. Let the record clearly show that I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Unlike FF and RWF, my world does not revolve around this shit. Sure, it would be nice if the Democrats held onto the majority. If not, big whoop. It's alot easier bitching from the outside anyway.


I figured you probably knew that, but were bending the numbers ... like I do from time to time. :lol: :oops: :wink:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:21 am

With respect to a possible Republican takeover of the House and Congress - the GOP's promise of endless subpoenas and an attempt to impeach Obama notwithstanding - Republicans had better hope their non-existent "magic bullet of no" is masked by the positive effects of Obama's stimulus spending, because if unemployment is still close to current levels and middle-class incomes continue to erode as they did under Dubbya, the backlash in 2012 will be resounding and permanent. This is the GOP's last chance to pitch their BS to the people. Honestly, they have nothing but snake oil to sell, but I hope everything gets better regardless of which party is holding the reins, because the well-being of my country is paramount in importance, and ideology takes a back seat to that.
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Postby Don » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:21 am

Saint John wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Whites make up 38% of welfare recipients and blacks make up 37, but whites make up about 80% of the population while blacks make up about 12%. That equates to roughly 6 black people on welfare for every white one. But nice try at masking reality! :lol: :twisted:


If those numbers are true, I stand corrected. Let the record clearly show that I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Unlike FF and RWF, my world does not revolve around this shit. Sure, it would be nice if the Democrats held onto the majority. If not, big whoop. It's alot easier bitching from the outside anyway.


I figured you probably knew that, but were bending the numbers ... like I do from time to time. :lol: :oops: :wink:


Not as much as I do. I've actually made a career out of it. Down Stat? Turn the graph upside down and problem solved!
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Postby Don » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:36 am

It's a question of using numerical figures or percentages, really.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:52 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Don wrote:I though there was already a five year cap. Isn't there a push to lower it down to two years?


Bill Clinton dismantled welfare.


Only after vetoing it twice and being warned by Dick Morris that vetoing the Republican bill a 3rd time right before his '96 re-election bid would harm his re-election chances. Republicans basically forced him to do the right thing.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:13 am

Seven Wishes wrote:...Republicans had better hope their non-existent "magic bullet of no" is masked by the positive effects of Obama's stimulus spending, because if unemployment is still close to current levels and middle-class incomes continue to erode as they did under Dubbya, the backlash in 2012 will be resounding and permanent.


The major effect of the stimulus is already over with. It failed. The administration viewed it as a back-up plan, and expected unemployment to peak and come down. All the while they sold it an economic panacea, when none of the economic models bore that out at all.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:02 am

I was more opaquely referring to the job-saving measures effected by the auto bailout and (presumably) Wall Street. Had the TARP funds been regulated sufficiently to ensure banks were complying and small businesses were getting loans, I believe it would still be having an effect. But, as GOP-mandaded compromises go, it was almost as DOA as significant portions of the healthcare bill.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:19 am

Another home run for President Obama! What a disaster in all aspects! :roll:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 9358.story
Justice Elena Kagan's first vote is against an execution

The newest member of the Supreme Court is in the minority in backing a stay of execution over questions about the safety of a drug to be used in a lethal injection. Shortly after the stay was overturned Tuesday, Arizona executed Jeffrey Landrigan.


Of course it's not safe. It's supposed to be lethal!!!! :lol: Obama must be proud!!! What a joke! :lol:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:27 am

Douche, if I made a post every time a Republican did or said something even slightly questionable, this thread would be several thousand pages long, and my fingers would have already fallen off. Give it a rest, and pick your battles with a little more discrimination.

I love how not ONE of you neo-cons has made one single, solitary post about global warming since I permanently shut down debate on the subject. I'd be more than willing to re-post it, along with dozens of other links that contain actual FACTS and real data, as opposed to the musings of former high school chemistry teachers with no applicable knowledge or education and an axe to grind.

Although, I HAD forgotten Victoria "Mensa" Jackson had already affirmed global warming was a conspiratorial myth invented by the collusory left...right in the same letter where she accused Obama of destroying the middle class while, in the same sentence, condemning him for being a socialist communist dictator. :roll:
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:33 am

Seven Wishes wrote:I love how not ONE of you neo-cons has made one single, solitary post about global warming since I permanently shut down debate on the subject.

Take a look around dipshit! Unemployment is at 10%, people aren't worried about the planet warming. They're worried about putting food on the table you dumbass!

Go ahead and do a search where GW ranks on issues important to the American people.

Now shut up, go pop in your blu-ray version of "An Inconvenient Truth" and jack off like always. Nobody cares!
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Postby Saint John » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:35 am

Scientific resources that refute 'global warming'

* March 18th, 2009 12:31 pm ET

As we asserted earlier in the week, the notion of Al Gore and others like him who insist that the 'science is settled' concerning man-made global warming is based upon unproved hypothesis rather than hard science. The hard science shows no such thing, and hundreds of scientists around the world have said so.

The fact that the 'global warming' bandwagon has attempted to silence these strong voices of dissent within the scientific community only goes to prove the point--that 'global warming' is a political movement designed to advance a collectivist ideology and that if the scientists who are its adherents were actually interested in the truth, they would not be so adamant about silencing their critics.

Let's begin with the International Climate Science Coalition--a collaborative effort of climate scientists around the world who are dedicated to discovering and publishing the truth concerning the global climate.

In a report issued recently, the ICSC declared:

"In virtually every area cited as evidence of human-caused global climate change – temperatures and CO2 levels, ice caps, storm frequency, sea level rise, even polar bear populations (which have been rising for decades) – scientists are discovering strong evidence that what we are now experiencing is mostly due to natural cycles. At the same time, researchers are developing elegant and convincing new theories that fit the observational data far better than the greenhouse gas focused computer models that have driven climate concerns to date. President Barack Obama may actually believe that “The science is beyond dispute and the facts are clear”, as he told delegates to the UN climate conference in Poland, but climate scientists know that the whole field is in intense dispute and very few of the key parameters driving climate are properly understood at all."

Further, the Coalition reports that satellite data shows that surface temperatures for 2008 were below the 30-year average.

The ICSC provides complete scientific information on how global warming fanatics manipulate data to fit their agenda. One report in particular, Using Statistics to Warm a Cooling South Pole, is of extreme importance.

And then, for those who drink the Al Gore cool-aid, there is 'Canadian Professor Debunks Science of Al Gore's Senate Hearing.'

Be sure to visit the site and look around. There is a wealth of information for those truly interesting in discovering the actual facts concerning the global climate.

But let's go back to the very beginning. How on earth did this farce known as 'global warming' get so much attention in the first place? Who was behind it? What were the circumstances?

John Coleman gives us the answers in this explosive report entitled, 'The Amazing Story Behind the Global Warming Scam.' This is essential reading for anyone interested in the history of the movement.

In addition, NASA admitted to reporting bogus numbers that showed erroneous average global temps:

Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), run by Al Gore's ally Dr. James Hansen was caught posting bogus data on global warming-- again!
The Telegraph reported:

On Monday, Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), which is run by Al Gore's chief scientific ally, Dr James Hansen, and is one of four bodies responsible for monitoring global temperatures, announced that last month was the hottest October on record.

This was startling. Across the world there were reports of unseasonal snow and plummeting temperatures last month, from the American Great Plains to China, and from the Alps to New Zealand. China's official news agency reported that Tibet had suffered its "worst snowstorm ever". In the US, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration registered 63 local snowfall records and 115 lowest-ever temperatures for the month, and ranked it as only the 70th-warmest October in 114 years.

So what explained the anomaly? GISS's computerized temperature maps seemed to show readings across a large part of Russia had been up to 10 degrees higher than normal. But when expert readers of the two leading warming-skeptic blogs, Watts Up With That and Climate Audit, began detailed analysis of the GISS data they made an astonishing discovery. The reason for the freak figures was that scores of temperature records from Russia and elsewhere were not based on October readings at all. Figures from the previous month had simply been carried over and repeated two months running.

The error was so glaring that when it was reported on the two blogs - run by the US meteorologist Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre, the Canadian computer analyst who won fame for his expert debunking of the notorious "hockey stick" graph - GISS began hastily revising its figures. This only made the confusion worse because, to compensate for the lowered temperatures in Russia, GISS claimed to have discovered a new "hotspot" in the Arctic - in a month when satellite images were showing Arctic sea-ice recovering so fast from its summer melt that three weeks ago it was 30 per cent more extensive than at the same time last year.

A GISS spokesman lamely explained that the reason for the error in the Russian figures was that they were obtained from another body, and that GISS did not have resources to exercise proper quality control over the data it was supplied with. This is an astonishing admission: the figures published by Dr Hansen's institute are not only one of the four data sets that the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) relies on to promote its case for global warming, but they are the most widely quoted, since they consistently show higher temperatures than the others.

If there is one scientist more responsible than any other for the alarm over global warming it is Dr Hansen, who set the whole scare in train back in 1988 with his testimony to a US Senate committee chaired by Al Gore. Again and again, Dr Hansen has been to the fore in making extreme claims over the dangers of climate change. (He was recently in the news here for supporting the Greenpeace activists acquitted of criminally damaging a coal-fired power station in Kent, on the grounds that the harm done to the planet by a new power station would far outweigh any damage they had done themselves.)

Yet last week's latest episode is far from the first time Dr Hansen's methodology has been called in question. In 2007 he was forced by Mr Watts and Mr McIntyre to revise his published figures for US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s, as he had claimed, but the 1930s
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:41 am

Right. Whatever.

http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php

Techniques
ignoring refutation
GW deniers often reiterate otherwise-legitimate arguments which have already been refuted, dishonestly repeating them as if those arguments had not yet been addressed.

False dilemma
One of the techniques used by GW deniers is to reduce the problem to an all-or-nothing false dilemma – either:

GW exists and we are causing it and we should take draconian measures to stop it, or else
GW doesn't exist; if it does, it's not our fault; if it's our fault, there's either nothing we can do about it; if there's something we could do about it, the effects won't be that bad if we don't so it's really not worth the fuss.
Any flaws found in the pro-GW fork become, to them, arguments against the whole thing – making this effectively a straw man misrepresentation of global warming advocacy.

winner-take-all thinking
GW deniers tend to take a combative approach to the discussion, trying to undermine GW's credibility without actually addressing the matters of fact it raises; this is in turn fed upon and encouraged by those who like to keep debates stirred up rather than seeking to resolve them.

To counter this, GW proponents might make a set of specific proposals regarding what should be done under various conditions, where the conditions are stated in terms which can be measured. For example, "If a forecast is made which everyone agrees was done using sound methodology, and that forecast shows global temperatures averaging more than 5 degrees above normal over the next 25 years, then we as should be willing to spend at least X dollars of global resources, divided proportionally among the signatory countries by GNP, towards either reversing the temperature change itself or at least ameliorating the effects of said change on the most vulnerable members of our global habitat (to be divided amongst humans and non-humans according to a formula set out in Appendix C etc. etc.)"

Although the core GW deniers might carefully overlook these proposals and shift the debate back to their preferred grounds, it could help clarify the situation for people who are honestly confused about the issue.

[edit] irrelevant accusations
GW deniers often accuse GW advocates of being "alarmists" or fearmongers. This is a bogus accusation on the following levels:

It again deflects attention away from a discussion of the facts (which could be resolved) into a claim of nefarious motives, which is not relevant when the accused have presented extensive facts to back up their assertions.
Fearmongery is only a valid accusation when fear is being used to get people to obey or support a particular group or individual (a technique used shamelessly by the anti-GW Bush II administration). This accusation is more difficult to deflect, though it seems clearly wrong to me. -W..
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:48 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Douche, if I made a post every time a Republican did or said something even slightly questionable

Dude, it just wasn't a flippant comment. It's a stupid vote by an incompetent Obama nominated to the HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND!!!! :roll: What do you think of Obama's judgement about this appointment's ruling?

Seven Wishes wrote:I love how not ONE of you neo-cons has made one single, solitary post about global warming since I permanently shut down debate on the subject.


I find it hilarious how you hold yourself in such high esteem, when pretty much everyone laughs at you!!! :lol: Keep it up! :lol:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:26 am

Lewis' assertions have been discredited; furthermore, he is only one scientist and is politically motivated. Try again.

Wrong again, brainless neo-cons!
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Postby Saint John » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:29 am

Seven Wishes wrote: he is only one scientist and is politically motivated.


And the guys on the other side are financially motivated ... by about a trillion dollars!
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:09 am

Fact Finder wrote:whoops..sorry about posting from right wing blogs.. :lol:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html


New prognostications show Republicans easily overtaking the House next week, but Democrats are dispatching their top figures for a last round of campaigning and injecting fresh cash into the races, in an attempt to stave off a blowout.

Republicans could easily pick up 50 seats on Nov. 2, far more than the 39 needed to win the majority, according to the Hill. The newspaper's 2010 midterm election poll surveyed 17,000 likely voters in 42 toss-up districts, and the results mirror those of other recent projections.

Democrats face the potential of "a political bloodbath the size of which we haven't seen since the presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt," pollster Stuart Rothenberg wrote Tuesday.

SWEET! :D


I fail to see where all the glee is coming from? So you win the House? Big deal. You won't control anything. You won't pass anything. You won't be able to repeal anything. You won't get a single thing done.

How is this any different than now?

Yet you are doing cartwheels. Trust me, this is the worst thing that can happen to the GOP in the long run. Come back in November 2012, and I'll show you.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:20 am

Fact Finder wrote:The glee is coming from my groin...I can feel it...!


TEANAMI TUESDAY!


get in the back


Ok, I guess. Way to debate my reasoning. You just want the republicans in control, and it doesn't matter what happens, you are party over country. Whatever, I guess that's your right. pretty pathetic though.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:28 pm

The last several pages of this thread stand as reason one why I don't post here nearly as much as I used to. TNC is the only liberal here whose opinion is normally well-thought out. I'm all for a good argument, with a small dose of name-calling thrown in, but this is ridiculous.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:37 pm

The joke will be on you and your insiduous fear-mongering and brain-dead/brainwashed cronies when, in two years, this nation has been permanently disabled by Teabagger / Neo-Con fiscal, domestic, and international policy. Enjoy the next two years - they will be the death throes of the Republican party.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:39 pm

conversationpc wrote:The last several pages of this thread stand as reason one why I don't post here nearly as much as I used to. TNC is the only liberal here whose opinion is normally well-thought out. I'm all for a good argument, with a small dose of name-calling thrown in, but this is ridiculous.


Well, make that Liberals 1, GOP 0. There isn't ONE Republican on this board who has reason, truth and reality on his or her side.
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Postby Monker » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:47 pm

Saint John wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote: he is only one scientist and is politically motivated.


And the guys on the other side are financially motivated ... by about a trillion dollars!


Oh, yeah, all those billionaire scientists just make a killing.

The 'financially motivated' is just complete BS.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:52 pm

So much for the myth that Republicans are better educated than Democrats...

* States that voted for Kerry in 2004 had 21 percent more college graduates than states that voted for Bush.
* The states that ranked the lowest for high school and college graduates were all red states.
* Eight out of 10 of the states that ranked the highest for high school college graduates were blue states.
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