President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Arkansas]

Just a simple question.

If some can't afford healthcare, then how in holy heck can they afford to pay the fine for not having it?
I guess they'll just get deeper in trouble, and go to debtor's prison, no?

The real problem isn't health care, it's responsibility for personal health.
Dust off the running shoes, and get the heart in shape.
Depend on muscle, not on meds.

Grow a garden. Eat wisely. Live simply.


later~

[Rockindeano]

Just a simple question.

If some can't afford healthcare, then how in holy heck can they afford to pay the fine for not having it?
I guess they'll just get deeper in trouble, and go to debtor's prison, no?

The real problem isn't health care, it's responsibility for personal health.
Dust off the running shoes, and get the heart in shape.
Depend on muscle, not on meds.

Grow a garden. Eat wisely. Live simply.


later~

There it is! I was waiting for the republican line on healthcare all evening, and finally one of you spoke it.

The republican plan for healthcare in America?

Don't get sick.

More laughs from a braindead party. Insensitive fucks. Just how many people in this country, a first world state at that, are going to die because they are without care? It is preposterous to think that we can't take care of our own. However, my opinion is complete bullshit anyway. My opinion is nuts and I am a liberal, so my iopinion doesn't count. Repeal the damn thing, let people die, let people be denied care because of pre-existing situations(through no fault of their own), let people be dropped because God forbid they develop a disease, and let's go back to "only the rich live well." Outstanding message we are sending to the very peoples of this nation. You folks are fucking embarrassing. No sense trying to talk at you or even with you people. Fucking cement heads.

I might as well tell you why I believe the way I do. Dan, you can stop reading because I am full of bullshit.

I lost my wife at age 27 to cancer. She was healthy, and thriving and we had two kids. By the age of 26, she was diagnosed with the disease. We didn't have insurance, as we were young and didn't have great jobs with healthcare. So a long story short, she passed away at the age of 27, leaving behind a husband, a 6 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son. Those kids had to grow up without their mother. Her bills as it were(without cancer treatments and surgeries), was over 60,000 dollars. With the needed care, it would have been close to a million dollars. Doctors refused to offer the care anyway. No money, no care. It was as simple as that. I saw it as cold blooded reality, a reality in which I didn't like too well, and one that I thought should never ever exist in a country as wealthy as this one. So, I raised my kids by myself, which was awesome, but to this day, it still hurts to lose someone because we didn't have enough money to cure a natural disease. This case is not unique to just me. There are hundreds like this that occur everyday in the US, yet, you on the right say, "so what, deal with it." I just hope that none of you lose a family member, be it nuclear or extended, and that you never have to be embarrassed by the way this country treats it's own citizens regarding healthcare coverage, or lack therof. Had there been Obamacare back in 1994, my wife would still be with me and my kids would have grown up in a better life. I know it doesn't resonate with any of you conservatives. We are just different I guess.

[slucero]

Drew... QEII could take the value of the USD down another 20%... (that's MORE stimulus Deano... )

That WILL put me out of business. I've lost 25% of income over the last year due to devalued US$....

Say hello to the "Currency Wars": http://www.cnbc.com/id/40000129

[conversationpc]

The republican plan for healthcare in America?

Don't get sick.

Yeah, that was Alan Grayson's line and look where that got him.

More laughs from a braindead party. Insensitive fucks. Just how many people in this country, a first world state at that, are going to die because they are without care? It is preposterous to think that we can't take care of our own.

For those who are able to take care of their own, they should. I agree with Dan. For those who can't, i.e. they are mentally or physically unable and have no other means of support (family, friends, church, etc.), then I agree there should be a place for government to step in. Otherwise, time to step up and do it yourself. The government option is too costly, bureaucratically overburdened, and inefficient to do the job. They are going to end up dumbing down the system for everyone, which, in the end, is going to be less beneficial overall, in my opinion.

I lost my wife at age 27 to cancer. She was healthy, and thriving and we had two kids. By the age of 26, she was diagnosed with the disease. We didn't have insurance, as we were young and didn't have great jobs with healthcare. So a long story short, she passed away at the age of 27, leaving behind a husband, a 6 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son. Those kids had to grow up without their mother. Her bills as it were(without cancer treatments and surgeries), was over 60,000 dollars. With the needed care, it would have been close to a million dollars. Doctors refused to offer the care anyway. No money, no care. It was as simple as that. I saw it as cold blooded reality, a reality in which I didn't like too well, and one that I thought should never ever exist in a country as wealthy as this one. So, I raised my kids by myself, which was awesome, but to this day, it still hurts to lose someone because we didn't have enough money to cure a natural disease. This case is not unique to just me. There are hundreds like this that occur everyday in the US, yet, you on the right say, "so what, deal with it." I just hope that none of you lose a family member, be it nuclear or extended, and that you never have to be embarrassed by the way this country treats it's own citizens regarding healthcare coverage, or lack therof. Had there been Obamacare back in 1994, my wife would still be with me and my kids would have grown up in a better life. I know it doesn't resonate with any of you conservatives. We are just different I guess.

I'm sorry for your loss. However, that doesn't mean that people who believe different than you do, and some who've had similar experiences, are wrong or are not sympathetic to you.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Drew... QEII could take the value of the USD down another 20%... (that's MORE stimulus Deano... )

Liberal economists actively want the dollar to drop, they don't see it as a problem. They claim it will be good for the trade deficit and make US goods more competetive.

[conversationpc]

Drew... QEII could take the value of the USD down another 20%... (that's MORE stimulus Deano... )

Liberal economists actively want the dollar to drop, they don't see it as a problem. They claim it will be good for the trade deficit and make US goods more competetive.

Unfortunately, it's likely to drive the price of goods here even higher for us.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Drew... QEII could take the value of the USD down another 20%... (that's MORE stimulus Deano... )

Liberal economists actively want the dollar to drop, they don't see it as a problem. They claim it will be good for the trade deficit and make US goods more competetive.

Unfortunately, it's likely to drive the price of goods here even higher for us.

Liberal economists want the the dollar to drop because thats the only way they finance runaway govt spending and constant expansion of the money supply. There are numberous negative consequences. In addition to making imported goods more expensive- The dropping dollar actually hurts US multinational organisations who have global clients and hence global oprations overseas, making them less competitive.

[Michigan Girl]

That's sad, Deano, absolutely heartwrenching!!

I'm not sure about your states ...but here in Louisiana we have
state funded facilities, e.g. LSU Medical Center in Shreveport, New Orleans,
Baton Rouge. Not only are you able to get medical treatment at
these facilities w/no medical coverage ...they are also some of the finest
medical facilities in this country. If people here go w/out medical care,
it ain't because it wasn't available!!

[Melissa]

On the surface it looks like the right thing to do but really, it's just giving everyone really crappy healthcare.

Exactly, but I've realized trying to explain that to people who don't do what we do for a living for as long as we have will never understand that. They just have no clue.

[annpea]

[

quote="Andrew"]From an outsiders viewpoint - this entire 301 page thread just sums up for me why the USA is in such a fucking mess (and sending me broke in the meantime).

No one is willing to work together or look past their own politically allianced ass to get anyting don

e.[/quote] Andrew, you are so right. The whole world is watching our leaders acting like a bunch cranky brats who can't play in the same sandbox together.

[Enigma869]

From an outsiders viewpoint - this entire 301 page thread just sums up for me why the USA is in such a fucking mess (and sending me broke in the meantime).

No one is willing to work together or look past their own politically allianced ass to get anyting done.

Leave it to an "outsider" to figure it all out. The political system in this country is a complete fucking train wreck. The hilarious thing is that we actually have people (and lots of them) who believe one side is better than the other. They all suck. The next time that you meet an honest politician will be the first one who has ever existed. Being completely full of shit is a pre-requisite for the gig! The Republicans believe all is well now that the Republicans are in control. How did that work out last time they were in control? The Democrats think they have it all figured out, and at the end of the day, our country and econony is a complete fucking disaster!

[Melissa]

Not only are you able to get medical treatment at
these facilities w/no medical coverage ...they are also some of the finest
medical facilities in this country. If people here go w/out medical care,
it ain't because it wasn't available!!

Exactly!

[StevePerryHair]

From an outsiders viewpoint - this entire 301 page thread just sums up for me why the USA is in such a fucking mess (and sending me broke in the meantime).

No one is willing to work together or look past their own politically allianced ass to get anyting done.

Leave it to an "outsider" to figure it all out. The political system in this country is a complete fucking train wreck. The hilarious thing is that we actually have people (and lots of them) who believe one side is better than the other. They all suck. The next time that you meet an honest politician will be the first one who has ever existed. Being completely full of shit is a pre-requisite for the gig! The Republicans believe all is well now that the Republicans are in control. How did that work out last time they were in control? The Democrats think they have it all figured out, and at the end of the day, our country and econony is a complete fucking disaster!

Yes, they all do suck. My example would be the choice we had for Florida State governor. It was a lose/lose situation. We've lost. It's SAD what we are given as candidates these days. I think we are at a really scary time. There was only ONE election I felt great about voting for on my ballot, and it was for county Mayor. Not even a party based position. It's no wonder so many people are refusing to vote. Oh, I did feel good about one more vote. Getting Grayson out of there.

[Rockindeano]

On the surface it looks like the right thing to do but really, it's just giving everyone really crappy healthcare.

Exactly, but I've realized trying to explain that to people who don't do what we do for a living for as long as we have will never understand that. They just have no clue.

I assume I am one of those who "has no clue," so I will respond.

I definitely think you in the medical field absolutely know more than we who don't work in medicine. However, my point isn't resonating with you or Natalie. My point is that government healthcare for those that have none, is better than the current status quo. I don't understand some of the comments made by Natalie. People who have their current insurance, and are happy about it, get to keep it. Plain and simple. Also, under the new law, insurance companies will now have to provide actual, ahem, coverage for those with pre-existing conditions and now they won't be able to drop you because you come down with an illness. Gasp! at the fact that insurance companies might actually have to pay out for a patient. They want the premiums paid, yet don't want to cover anyone for real. Those 31 million who do not have any type of coverage at all, will receive some. I understand what you two are saying...that Obamacare will not be as overall good as private care, but so what? The law will provide services to those without, and it will save the country money, because it is a lot cheaper to treat illness with a trip to the doctor's office, rather than have patients use the ER as such. Again, I am not overjoyed by the contents of the HC law, as I think it should have gone a lot further...I would have demanded a public option in it before I signed it, and I also would have made the damned bill available to EVERYONE who lives withing these borders(save the immigration talk for later, as I know that is a complicated issue that is linked here).


To Michigan Girl- I understand your argument about the free clinics in Louisiana, however, who do you think ultimately is paying for those services? The Federal Gov't, that's who. The state of Louisiana isn't doling out it's own dollars...for states are flat out broke. The Feds are paying for these services all over the country, in every state. You just know those services are ultra expensive- and again, the new law will bring down those costs.

My argument is like this- if you have a car, and you stay current on the upkeep, ie, changing oil, fluids, tires, etc, it will be a healthier automobile, versus a car that never undergoes maintenance. It's obviuos that a car that is not cared for will not run nearly as good, and it won't last nearly as long. It's a pretty simple conclusion to arrive at. And the thing is, we aren't talking cars...we are talking human beings for Christs sake.

[Rockindeano]

Yes, they all do suck. My example would be the choice we had for Florida State governor. It was a lose/lose situation. We've lost. It's SAD what we are given as candidates these days. I think we are at a really scary time. There was only ONE election I felt great about voting for on my ballot, and it was for county Mayor. Not even a party based position. It's no wonder so many people are refusing to vote. Oh, I did feel good about one more vote. Getting Grayson out of there.

Quick question for you Lynn-

1- How do you Floridians feel about the high speed rail line that's goijng to connect Tampa with Orlando at 220 mph? The state of Florida has received a lot of money for it from the stimulus bill.

2- Is the new governor-elect going to squash it or support it. We in California(the only other state to implement the high speed rail), is watching FL closely...your system is only a hundred miles plus long, whereas ours will be 5 times as big. I am just curious as to what you know about this.
Thanks in advance.

[StevePerryHair]

Yes, they all do suck. My example would be the choice we had for Florida State governor. It was a lose/lose situation. We've lost. It's SAD what we are given as candidates these days. I think we are at a really scary time. There was only ONE election I felt great about voting for on my ballot, and it was for county Mayor. Not even a party based position. It's no wonder so many people are refusing to vote. Oh, I did feel good about one more vote. Getting Grayson out of there.

Quick question for you Lynn-

1- How do you Floridians feel about the high speed rail line that's goijng to connect Tampa with Orlando at 220 mph? The state of Florida has received a lot of money for it from the stimulus bill.

2- Is the new governor-elect going to squash it or support it. We in California(the only other state to implement the high speed rail), is watching FL closely...your system is only a hundred miles plus long, whereas ours will be 5 times as big. I am just curious as to what you know about this.
Thanks in advance.

Im not sure how Floridians in general feel about it. It seems it has mixed support from both parties. To me it's a really cool concept and it would be cool to be a prototype for that sort of transportation, but Im not sure it's really necessary between Orlando and Tampa. They think it will create job opportunities for both cities, and it will create jobs while it's being built, which is true. But I wonder how many would actually use the railway. Tourists tend to stay in our area when they come to Orlando. They spend their time at the theme parks. So Im just not sure how necessary it is I guess. It will be interesting.

The headlines in todays Orlando Sentinel say that the new governor is "skeptical" of the railway. Not a shocker I guess. Im not happy about him. I didn't like Sink either though. I watched their debate, and they are both lacking things I want to see in someone running this state. It's so sad to me that this is what we are stuck with. Im not sure there is a such thing as a good candidate anymore.

Here's todays' article about the railway:

OrlandoSentinel.com
Election results could derail train projects
By Dan Tracy, Orlando Sentinel

7:26 PM EDT, November 3, 2010

Advertisement

Two train projects slated for Metro Orlando weren't on Tuesday's ballot, but their fates could be in doubt because of the election results.

Republican Gov.-elect Rick Scott is skeptical of the high-speed train planned for Tampa to Orlando and the SunRail commuter system that would cut through Central Florida.

At the same time, two sales-tax referendums that would have raised money to support the high-speed train were solidly rejected by voters Tuesday in Hillsborough and Polk counties.

That has left supporters apprehensive but hopeful the trains will remain on track. SunRail is supposed to start rolling in late 2013, and the $2.6 billion high-speed train in 2015.

"It will likely get tougher, but I think Republicans get it, too [about the need for mass transit]," said Will Schroeer, a rail expert for Transportation for America, a mass-transit group in Washington.

It was a Republican Legislature in Florida, in fact, that aggressively went after the nearly $2 billion in federal money promised by President Barack Obama's administration for the high-speed train. Among the chief proponents in Florida were House Speaker-designate Dean Cannon, R- Winter Park, and incoming Senate President Mike Haridopolos, R-Merritt Island.

Those two also were instrumental in getting the $1.2 billion SunRail project through the state Legislature.

Haridopolos spokesman David Bush said the senator still supports SunRail and the Tampa-Orlando train but would not back expanding the high-speed route to Miami, as has been proposed. "It's clear Washington won't have the money for that," Bush said.

Bush said his boss intends to meet soon with Scott "get his thoughts on high-speed rail for this state."

Scott and Cannon couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday.

But in Scott's last debate with Democrat Alex Sink before the election, said he would be hard-pressed to support the trains if they cost the state any money.

"So the way I look at it ... if the federal government is going to fund all of it, and there's no — there's nothing ... [that's] going to cost the state any money, let's look at it," he said.

Right now, the state is expected to pay about 20 percent of high-speed's final tab and has agreed to pay half of SunRail's costs.

The day after the debate, Scott softened his stance somewhat, saying, "I would go through first and wait until we can see the feasibility study and see what it's going to cost taxpayers. Then I would make the decision."

U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D- Jacksonville, and the chair, for now, of the House subcommittee overseeing the nation's rail lines, said Florida had better make good on its contribution for high-speed rail.

"It's got to be a partnership. One person does not make a partnership," she said. "I would not support just spending federal dollars."

U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, likely to chair the transportation committee when Republicans take over the House next year, said he remains solidly behind the trains, even if the state is short on money.

"We're going to put these together as business deals, not losing government projects," he said, adding that it was too early to see whether a proposed Orlando-Miami route could be done without help from Tallahassee.

Mica said he plans to pay for future transportation projects by cutting red tape and freeing up billions in dollars already approved but caught in the pipeline.

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, a key supporter of both trains, said he would be surprised if there is a move to scuttle either one.

"I would assume anybody who wants to create jobs in Florida would recognize the benefits of high-speed rail and SunRail," said Dyer, a Democrat.

Both trains come with the promise of thousands of jobs, ranging from engineers to carpenters to concrete mixers. SunRail proponents say 6,700 construction jobs could be created by the train, with work beginning next year. High-speed rail, meanwhile, is supposed to generate about 23,000 construction-related jobs, starting next year.

Orange County's chief of transportation, Jim Harrison, said those jobs are critical to the Central Florida economy, where unemployment stands at 11.9 percent.

"I think it would be very unfortunate for us if either of those projects went away," Harrison said. "That's an awful lot of money into this community and this state that would just go elsewhere."

C.C. "Doc" Dockery, who has tried for more than two decades to get a high-speed train in Central Florida, said Obama may have to trade with Republicans to keep the funding going.

"It'll be like any legislative process. There's give-and-take there," said Dockery, a retired insurance magnate from Lakeland.

Bob Clifford, executive director of the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority, said Hillsborough will have to serve the high-speed train with buses, rather than the light-rail transit that had been envisioned. Voters turned down a plan to pay for the system with an extra penny of sales tax.

"It's disappointing, but we'll learn from what happened," Clifford said, adding that trying to raise taxes in poor economic times was a bad idea.

Polk voters rejected a half-cent sales tax to expand its bus fleet, in part to serve the high-speed train.

Schroeer said Florida and the nation have to keep looking for alternatives for the automobile, regardless of politics or the economy.

More roads for an already-clogged highway system, he said, are not the answer.

"I don't think anyone buys that,'' he said.

[Melissa]

Dean I won't argue with you about health insurance companies doing shitty things, they DO, and again doing what I've done for this long I know that full well. You have no idea how many fights I've put up for our patients over the years, and we DO win most of them and get covered for our kids what needs to be covered. But what's interesting is lately, health insurance companies have gotten much better about what they will cover, and you know who is instead cracking down on what they will cover now? Medicaid. And what is Medicaid? Government run healthcare. And they are some of the most INEPT people to speak with, I swear I lose one of my own brain cells trying to dumb down to their level so I can get things covered for our patients. I'm sorry but having the government take over healthcare for so many more than the already tons of people it "covers" will be a huge mistake. What needs to happen to help bring the costs of healthcare down is to crack down on all the people who already abuse the hell out of programs like Medicaid. I'm telling you, even you being as liberal as you are, I know it would piss you off beyond belief to see how bad that is. The general public really doesn't realize how bad it is.

As for health insurance, I really don't see how people can afford NOT to have it. I don't make the $70K you mentioned earlier, nowhere near that, that's NOT what it takes to afford health insurance, and I get so sick of people acting like affording health insurance is a luxury only for "rich" people. Yeah I'm so rich because I can afford health insurance . I bought a house that was actually cheaper than what I could afford, and I drive an 8 year old car because I'm so "rich" . That's crap. My daughter was admitted this past August and her bill came out to over $13,000. Know what I had to pay out of pocket after insurance? Only $400. Yes, only. If I didn't have insurance I'd be making payments for YEARS on that. Do I like the couple hundred dollars taken from our checks every payday for insurance? No. But I have kids and we NEED it. Plain and simple. And yes I know just as well as you do how much cancer treatment can be too. My mom's came out in the 7 figures by the time she died. But if her and my father hadn't had insurance, what in the world would they have done? Sorry, but I see health insurance as something I can't afford NOT to have. If only others would see that too, instead of seeing brand new cars, 1/2 million dollar houses, iphones and designer everything as their "right", then there would be a HUGE difference in this country.

[Michigan Girl]

To Michigan Girl- I understand your argument about the free clinics in Louisiana, however, who do you think ultimately is paying for those services? The Federal Gov't, that's who. The state of Louisiana isn't doling out it's own dollars...for states are flat out broke. The Feds are paying for these services all over the country, in every state. You just know those services are ultra expensive- and again, the new law will bring down those costs.

Not that it matters to the basis of this conversation, LSU Medical Centers survive PRIMARILY on
State Funds, self generated revenue and Statuatory Dedications ...the Fed G provides less than 11% of the funding.
These are not clinics, they are high dollar medical facilities w/some of this nations most prestigious
doctors and best trauma units anywhere!! You make it sound like it's not good enough?!?!

[Michigan Girl]

Dean I won't argue with you about health insurance companies doing shitty things, they DO, and again doing what I've done for this long I know that full well. You have no idea how many fights I've put up for our patients over the years, and we DO win most of them and get covered for our kids what needs to be covered. But what's interesting is lately, health insurance companies have gotten much better about what they will cover, and you know who is instead cracking down on what they will cover now? Medicaid. And what is Medicaid? Government run healthcare. And they are some of the most INEPT people to speak with, I swear I lose one of my own brain cells trying to dumb down to their level so I can get things covered for our patients. I'm sorry but having the government take over healthcare for so many more than the already tons of people it "covers" will be a huge mistake. What needs to happen to help bring the costs of healthcare down is to crack down on all the people who already abuse the hell out of programs like Medicaid. I'm telling you, even you being as liberal as you are, I know it would piss you off beyond belief to see how bad that is. The general public really doesn't realize how bad it is.

As for health insurance, I really don't see how people can afford NOT to have it. I don't make the $70K you mentioned earlier, nowhere near that, that's NOT what it takes to afford health insurance, and I get so sick of people acting like affording health insurance is a luxury only for "rich" people. Yeah I'm so rich because I can afford health insurance . I bought a house that was actually cheaper than what I could afford, and I drive an 8 year old car because I'm so "rich" . That's crap. My daughter was admitted this past August and her bill came out to over $13,000. Know what I had to pay out of pocket after insurance? Only $400. Yes, only. If I didn't have insurance I'd be making payments for YEARS on that. Do I like the couple hundred dollars taken from our checks every payday for insurance? No. But I have kids and we NEED it. Plain and simple. And yes I know just as well as you do how much cancer treatment can be too. My mom's came out in the 7 figures by the time she died. But if her and my father hadn't had insurance, what in the world would they have done? Sorry, but I see health insurance as something I can't afford NOT to have. If only others would see that too, instead of seeing brand new cars, 1/2 million dollar houses, iphones and designer everything as their "right", then there would be a HUGE difference in this country.

I applaud you, miss priss!!

[Michigan Girl]

From an outsiders viewpoint - this entire 301 page thread just sums up for me why the USA is in such a fucking mess (and sending me broke in the meantime).

No one is willing to work together or look past their own politically allianced ass to get anyting done.

Leave it to an "outsider" to figure it all out. The political system in this country is a complete fucking train wreck. The hilarious thing is that we actually have people (and lots of them) who believe one side is better than the other. They all suck. The next time that you meet an honest politician will be the first one who has ever existed. Being completely full of shit is a pre-requisite for the gig! The Republicans believe all is well now that the Republicans are in control. How did that work out last time they were in control? The Democrats think they have it all figured out, and at the end of the day, our country and econony is a complete fucking disaster!

THIS^^^^^

[Rockindeano]

To Michigan Girl- I understand your argument about the free clinics in Louisiana, however, who do you think ultimately is paying for those services? The Federal Gov't, that's who. The state of Louisiana isn't doling out it's own dollars...for states are flat out broke. The Feds are paying for these services all over the country, in every state. You just know those services are ultra expensive- and again, the new law will bring down those costs.

Not that it matters to the basis of this conversation, LSU Medical Centers survive PRIMARILY on
State Funds, self generated revenue and Statuatory Dedications ...the Fed G provides less than 11% of the funding.
These are not clinics, they are high dollar medical facilities w/some of this nations most prestigious
doctors and best trauma units anywhere!! You make it sound like it's not good enough?!?!

No, C, I do think it's good enough. Wasn't at all putting down the services the LA hospitals provide. I was mistaken about funding- I assumed(bad idea as always), that the LSU centers didn't charge anything. I see you wrote that costs are offset via "generated revenue." I also incorrectly assumed that all monies came from the Feds...they still may, although I am not doubting you. many times, the federal government wil allocate funds to a state in the form of a "block grant." What this means is the money can be spent anyway the state deems fit to spend it on, basically there are few restrictions on how the money is to be spent, versus that of a categorical grant, where the money must be spent on certain issues. I know I am rambling here, but all public university, be it in Oregon, Deleware or Louisiana, might belong to the state it resiodes in, but federal dollars do find their way into state coffers. Everything that we touch in this life of ours, comes ultimately from the US Government, be it the road you drive on, the school you attended, the planes you fly on and so forth...everything comes from government.

[Rockindeano]

Dean I won't argue with you about health insurance companies doing shitty things, they DO, and again doing what I've done for this long I know that full well. You have no idea how many fights I've put up for our patients over the years, and we DO win most of them and get covered for our kids what needs to be covered. But what's interesting is lately, health insurance companies have gotten much better about what they will cover, and you know who is instead cracking down on what they will cover now? Medicaid. And what is Medicaid? Government run healthcare. And they are some of the most INEPT people to speak with, I swear I lose one of my own brain cells trying to dumb down to their level so I can get things covered for our patients. I'm sorry but having the government take over healthcare for so many more than the already tons of people it "covers" will be a huge mistake. What needs to happen to help bring the costs of healthcare down is to crack down on all the people who already abuse the hell out of programs like Medicaid. I'm telling you, even you being as liberal as you are, I know it would piss you off beyond belief to see how bad that is. The general public really doesn't realize how bad it is.

As for health insurance, I really don't see how people can afford NOT to have it. I don't make the $70K you mentioned earlier, nowhere near that, that's NOT what it takes to afford health insurance, and I get so sick of people acting like affording health insurance is a luxury only for "rich" people. Yeah I'm so rich because I can afford health insurance . I bought a house that was actually cheaper than what I could afford, and I drive an 8 year old car because I'm so "rich" . That's crap. My daughter was admitted this past August and her bill came out to over $13,000. Know what I had to pay out of pocket after insurance? Only $400. Yes, only. If I didn't have insurance I'd be making payments for YEARS on that. Do I like the couple hundred dollars taken from our checks every payday for insurance? No. But I have kids and we NEED it. Plain and simple. And yes I know just as well as you do how much cancer treatment can be too. My mom's came out in the 7 figures by the time she died. But if her and my father hadn't had insurance, what in the world would they have done? Sorry, but I see health insurance as something I can't afford NOT to have. If only others would see that too, instead of seeing brand new cars, 1/2 million dollar houses, iphones and designer everything as their "right", then there would be a HUGE difference in this country.

I agree with 98% of what you advocate Melissa. I do know of the abuse, and it's unfortunate. Some people you just can't change. However, for every gun toting, iphone using, Nike wearing abuser, there are also hard working, play by the rles people who are just shit out of luck. You can't punish those who do live life the right way, because of assholes who abuse the system.

My only disagreement with you, or my only absolute thought, is that everyone should be covered, period. Changing people is a completely different animal. You can't legislate morality.

You brought up the point of affording to NOT be without insurance. I agree with you. That is part of Obama's law- those who elect not to be covered, will have to pay a fine. Why is that a good thing? Because everyone gets sick, everyone needs a doctor at some time. If people don't pay into the system, and then get sick, they go into the ER, and costs the rest of us who do use doctors and practice preventative medicine. That in itself is abuse of the system. If everyone took care of their bodies, went to doctor's and didn't abuse the ER, that will absolutely lower the costs of healthcare as a whole.

[Melissa]

You can't punish those who do live life the right way, because of assholes who abuse the system.

Coming from an Obama supporter, this is surprising but B-I-N-G-O. Try telling that to Mr. SpreadTheWealth though.

[slucero]

Drew... QEII could take the value of the USD down another 20%... (that's MORE stimulus Deano... )

Liberal economists actively want the dollar to drop, they don't see it as a problem. They claim it will be good for the trade deficit and make US goods more competetive.

Keynseian (liberal) economists believe the answer to "too much debt and too much spending" is "more debt and more spending"... think about that...

All those countries that buy US debt... (denominated in dollars of course)... like China, Japan, Russia...etc... will start seeing US debt as a riskier and riskier investment, and they will require higher yields as a result. Of course they'll buy the dollar debt when the dollar us "Strong".. its a good investment... but when the dollar is "weak"?... don't think so...

... further, expect the US credit rating taking a hit. Lowering the US credit rating will make it even more expensive for the government to borrow money (read:sell debt)... see the pattern??

It also means all those Walmart goods will get wayyy more expensive, for folks barely making it, its gonna get even HARDER...

The Fed has gone into full retard mode.. even Art Cashin thinks so.. he should know... he's been on Wall Street for over 40 years..

Art Cashin: Bernanke Is 'Walking a Real Tightrope'
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39988517

Stocks surged at the open Thursday and kept climbing through the morning, as the market digested the Federal Reserve's decision to buy $600 billion in long-term Treasury bonds. Art Cashin, director of floor operations at UBS Financial Services, shared his insights.

“It looks like the Fed is looking to raise asset prices and the key asset price they want to raise looks to be the stock market,” Cashin told CNBC. “If the stock market looks good, maybe people might start spending again and that’s the gamble Fed is taking.”

However, Cashin said the Fed’s quantitative easing process is driving the dollar down, which may result in tariffs or currency wars.

“[Bernanke’s] walking a real tightrope; but for now, it’s had a beneficial effect on stocks,” he said.

The Fed is "propping up" asset prices in the HOPE that something, anything will turn the economy... and in the process destroying the Dollar and most Americans standard of living...

[Saint John]

I lost my wife at age 27 to cancer. She was healthy, and thriving and we had two kids. By the age of 26, she was diagnosed with the disease. We didn't have insurance, as we were young and didn't have great jobs with healthcare. So a long story short, she passed away at the age of 27, leaving behind a husband, a 6 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son. Those kids had to grow up without their mother. Her bills as it were(without cancer treatments and surgeries), was over 60,000 dollars. With the needed care, it would have been close to a million dollars. Doctors refused to offer the care anyway. No money, no care. It was as simple as that. I saw it as cold blooded reality, a reality in which I didn't like too well, and one that I thought should never ever exist in a country as wealthy as this one. So, I raised my kids by myself, which was awesome, but to this day, it still hurts to lose someone because we didn't have enough money to cure a natural disease. This case is not unique to just me. There are hundreds like this that occur everyday in the US, yet, you on the right say, "so what, deal with it." I just hope that none of you lose a family member, be it nuclear or extended, and that you never have to be embarrassed by the way this country treats it's own citizens regarding healthcare coverage, or lack therof. Had there been Obamacare back in 1994, my wife would still be with me and my kids would have grown up in a better life. I know it doesn't resonate with any of you conservatives. We are just different I guess.

I am completely sympathetic to anyone's tragic loss of a loved to cancer. That said, I'm mystified that a guy that with a Pac 10 degree, military experience and the genius that you perpetually remind us about, couldn't get a job that offered health care. Per you, you've been afforded every necessary tool to find a job with health care and simply, for whatever reason(s), didn't. Sorry, man, but having a wife and 2 children with a job that's equivalent to Wal Mart or McDonald's, in that it doesn't offer health insurance, is just plain irresponsible. I don't think the government or the system failed you in any way.

[RedWingFan]

My argument is like this- if you have a car, and you stay current on the upkeep, ie, changing oil, fluids, tires, etc, it will be a healthier automobile, versus a car that never undergoes maintenance. It's obviuos that a car that is not cared for will not run nearly as good, and it won't last nearly as long. It's a pretty simple conclusion to arrive at. And the thing is, we aren't talking cars...we are talking human beings for Christs sake.

Staying with your automobile analogy. Why do oil changes only cost $14.95? Why does a radiator or transmission flush and fill only cost $49.95. Why do a set of goodyears only cost $350. Gasoline is cheap in relation to other parts of the world.

These things are this affordable because you have alot of companys competing for your business. We have the freedom to shop around for these things.

Now imagine if Obama made all these things covered under your auto-insurance policy. Pull into whatever business and get "free" tires, oil, gas...etc.

You wouldn't even see prices for these items posted. They could charge whatever they wanted.
Just swipe your Obamamobile card and drive on your way. Insurance premiums would skyrocket, wouldn't it?

People who don't pay out of pocket have no idea what a physical costs. I know that I don't. Your way and Obama's way leads to skyrocketing costs. Ted Kennedy's HMO invention has led to skyrocketing costs.

Here's another example. Over the past 15 years, why has the cost of LASIK eye surgery dropped from $4000 an eye, to $499 an eye. Here's why. Because it's NOT covered by insurance.

[RossValoryRocks]

Dean,

I've met your wonderful children, I grieve, and have grieved, with you about your wife.

I don't disagree with you that Healthcare needs an overhaul, but I disagree that the Obamacare plan is the plan that will accomplish all the things you have said. I base this on this evidence:

Since the passage of the healthcare law my deductible has gone up, my premium has gone up significantly, and their has been talk (granted around the water cooler) that as soon as the law is in full effect come 2014, my company will pitch all of us off company provided health insurance, pay the fine (Which is LESS than their contribution per month per employee) and let us all get the government madated insurance.

The CBO has already said Obamacare is going to further bankrupt the country...we need change, but it needs to be done SMART...not just done for the sake of getting it done, and it has to be done without pandering to groups like the unions that are getting a free pass.

I think that is all that us conservatives want, put a plan in place that will accomplish significant change in the healthcare system, reduce costs to everyone, make sure no special deals are cut with special interests, and not dig a further economic hole with a law, such as the current Obamacare law.

I think if the House, the Senate and the President can work on those things together we could get a law that ALL of us can get behind.

[slucero]

Removing the barriers to interstate competition and tort reform would be good steps...

[Angel]

Dean,

I've met your wonderful children, I grieve, and have grieved, with you about your wife.

I don't disagree with you that Healthcare needs an overhaul, but I disagree that the Obamacare plan is the plan that will accomplish all the things you have said. I base this on this evidence:

Since the passage of the healthcare law my deductible has gone up, my premium has gone up significantly, and their has been talk (granted around the water cooler) that as soon as the law is in full effect come 2014, my company will pitch all of us off company provided health insurance, pay the fine (Which is LESS than their contribution per month per employee) and let us all get the government madated insurance.

The CBO has already said Obamacare is going to further bankrupt the country...we need change, but it needs to be done SMART...not just done for the sake of getting it done, and it has to be done without pandering to groups like the unions that are getting a free pass.

I think that is all that us conservatives want, put a plan in place that will accomplish significant change in the healthcare system, reduce costs to everyone, make sure no special deals are cut with special interests, and not dig a further economic hole with a law, such as the current Obamacare law.

I think if the House, the Senate and the President can work on those things together we could get a law that ALL of us can get behind.

EXACTLY, Stu!

I will be the very first one to admit that he current healthcare system needs a major overhaul but Obamacare is NOT the way to do it! Healthcare costs will increase because the only way to cover the costs not covered by the government is to charge extra to those that pay out of pocket. People seem to be under the impression that the current government run programs "pay the bill" for those who have the benefit of the programs-no, they pay a PORTION of the bill-and a very small portion at that, in many cases it's not even enough to cover costs of the care rendered. This isn't a situation where a lower rate is negotiated like with many insurance companies, this is mandated. I know I've mentioned it before, but in my state Medicaid recently cut their reimbursement rate from 60% to 40%. 40% does not cover costs but healthcare facitlities and providers can't recover any of those costs from the patient themselves so the only way to make it up is to increase costs.

I think a major medicaid overhaul would solve a lot of problems. I don't think it should be an "all or nothing" system. I think people should have to pay a co-pay and/or a premium to use the service based on their income. I also think they should have to disclose their income and their expenditures in order to be considered for these programs. I don't think if someone is paying a $200 a month cell phone bill, has a gym membership, has hair extentions and acrylic nails should be entitled to entirely free healthcare. This way, everyone could be covered if in fact they truly could not afford healthcare-but they are still being held responsible for some of the costs instead of using state aid as a means of having more disposable income.

[Seven Wishes2]

What you're referring to is what Obama initially proposed, before the Republicans in Congress and the House forced him to water it down. No-one would be complaining if the acual proposed legislation had been signed into law.

I'm hugely dissatisfied with a lot of the provisions of the overhaul, and try as I might, I still can't wrap my mind around the concept of forcing people to get coverage, although from what I've read, the government will give those who cannot afford it a stipend to cover those costs.

However, we had to start SOMEWHERE. This is far better than the alternative. Stu, costs have been escalating at an AVERAGE of 21% per year for the past decade on employer-based plans. That was going to happen regardless.