President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby RossValoryRocks » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:29 pm

Rockindeano wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:A federal judge in Virginia has found part of the Obama care law to be unconstitutional - NBC
about 4 hours ago via breakingnews.com


Not a concern. The Law is legit. You and all these federal conservative cockmouths can try all they want, but the white House will win out on this.

Do you NOT think the WH has the very best lawyers in the land? Do you NOT think they already thought of this happening?

It is law, deal with it.


Some of it is legit, sure...the forcing a person to buy insurance is NOT Constitutional.

Best lawyers in the land?? Are you high? Nevermind stupid question...no decent lawyer works for the government, unless they are planning on going into politics at some point.
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Postby RedWingFan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:48 pm

Saint John wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:How about we start drug testing for welfare or unemployment benefits? You test positive for an illegal substance once, you're done.


Great idea. I've seen it a million times; welfare recipient trades $50 in food stamps for $30-$40 in cash, and goes and buys drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and/or lottery tickets.

A guy I work with who lives in Flint, was telling me a few months ago how some woman tried to sell him her $500 food stamp card for $300. He said her cart was full of steak and lobster and all kinds of high end stuff.

He said he passed cuz he didn't know her and couldn't verify how much was on there.

He said he buys them from people he knows. Unreal!!! :x
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby Angel » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:53 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:How about we start drug testing for welfare or unemployment benefits? You test positive for an illegal substance once, you're done.


Great idea. I've seen it a million times; welfare recipient trades $50 in food stamps for $30-$40 in cash, and goes and buys drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and/or lottery tickets.

A guy I work with who lives in Flint, was telling me a few months ago how some woman tried to sell him her $500 food stamp card for $300. He said her cart was full of steak and lobster and all kinds of high end stuff.

He said he passed cuz he didn't know her and couldn't verify how much was on there.

He said he buys them from people he knows. Unreal!!! :x


Yep, it's a business...
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Postby Angel » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:01 pm

Saint John wrote:Food stamps and these debit cards for food should be sacked altogether. Food banks should give eligible qualifiers groceries on a week to week basis. Food banks should be run by independent agencies, mandate each qualifying participant bring a valid photo ID, and there should be bi-monthly drug testing. Lastly, employers should be encouraged to hire recipients at minimum wage and post job listings at said food banks.

You took the words out of my mouth. I also think they need to disclose all montly expenses-I know some think this is a major invasion of privacy but I am always amazed that people don't have money for food or healthcare but they DO have money for cigarettes, beer, a gym membership (that they obviously never use), acrylic nails, tanning beds, iPhones (and other gadgets), etc...
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Postby SteveForever » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:36 pm

Angel wrote:
Saint John wrote:Food stamps and these debit cards for food should be sacked altogether. Food banks should give eligible qualifiers groceries on a week to week basis. Food banks should be run by independent agencies, mandate each qualifying participant bring a valid photo ID, and there should be bi-monthly drug testing. Lastly, employers should be encouraged to hire recipients at minimum wage and post job listings at said food banks.

You took the words out of my mouth. I also think they need to disclose all montly expenses-I know some think this is a major invasion of privacy but I am always amazed that people don't have money for food or healthcare but they DO have money for cigarettes, beer, a gym membership (that they obviously never use), acrylic nails, tanning beds, iPhones (and other gadgets), etc...


I was working at a grocery store last year and I was AMAZED :shock: what people bought with the Lone Star card (Texas foodstamp card) and how much....and WHO all had a card, the biggest card holders were new immigrants to our country=in this neighborhood it was mainly Chinese and Vietnamese...our country is very very generous....
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Postby Angel » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:55 pm

SteveForever wrote:
Angel wrote:
Saint John wrote:Food stamps and these debit cards for food should be sacked altogether. Food banks should give eligible qualifiers groceries on a week to week basis. Food banks should be run by independent agencies, mandate each qualifying participant bring a valid photo ID, and there should be bi-monthly drug testing. Lastly, employers should be encouraged to hire recipients at minimum wage and post job listings at said food banks.

You took the words out of my mouth. I also think they need to disclose all montly expenses-I know some think this is a major invasion of privacy but I am always amazed that people don't have money for food or healthcare but they DO have money for cigarettes, beer, a gym membership (that they obviously never use), acrylic nails, tanning beds, iPhones (and other gadgets), etc...


I was working at a grocery store last year and I was AMAZED :shock: what people bought with the Lone Star card (Texas foodstamp card) and how much....and WHO all had a card, the biggest card holders were new immigrants to our country=in this neighborhood it was mainly Chinese and Vietnamese...our country is very very generous....

My parents owned a small grocery store when I was in high school and I worked there on the weekends. It was back in the days of food stamps. We could give up to $0.99 cash back when a customer paid with foodstamps. Mothers would send their kids in to buy a very small piece of candy (usually five or ten cents) they would use a $1 food stamp and get $0.90-$0.95 change back-they would send a few of their kids in then they would return with the coins and buy cigartettes-back in the days when they were $1.25 per pack including tax. It was so frustrating because there was nothing that could be done about it...
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Postby SF-Dano » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:21 am

Do we really have to lump unemployment and welfare in the same barrel? I have no problem with unemployment, at least someone has to work for a certain amount of time before they are elligible, with deductions for UI coming out of their paycheck. And eligibility does run out. We can argue over the amount of time unemployment benefits should be received, but I think that little bit of protection is something a worker should be entitled to. Welfare, now that is a whole different can of worms to me. Welfare is basically rewarding someone for never (or very rarely) working and paying them to continue not working.

Sorry I just don't see UI and Welfare as the same thing.
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Postby S2M » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:25 am

Ok....you guys are scaring me! No comment on the signing today? :shock: :? :shock: :? :shock:
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:53 pm

I think the inactivity in this thread means it's pretty much agreed that Bamster has surpassed Jimmy Carter!!!
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:50 am

RedWingFan wrote:I think the inactivity in this thread means it's pretty much agreed that Bamster has surpassed Jimmy Carter!!!


The word "surpassed" makes it feel too positive. :lol:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:11 am

Unbelievable. He acquiesced to the GOP's economy-killing, non-job-producing, inflationary, debt-accumulating tax breaks for the ultra-rich, and you still bash him? He's yours now. He's proven he's just slightly left of center, and a pussy as well.
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Postby SF-Dano » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:05 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Unbelievable. He acquiesced to the GOP's economy-killing, non-job-producing, inflationary, debt-accumulating tax breaks for the ultra-rich, and you still bash him? He's yours now. He's proven he's just slightly left of center, and a pussy as well.


No thanks. You keep him. You helped put him where he is.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:20 pm

More wonderful liberalism at work. Thank you President Clinton!!!! :roll:


http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2 ... for-abuse/
A liberal federal judge appointed by Bill Clinton ruled that illegal aliens can sue US immigration agents for abuse.
Judicial Watch reported:

A Clinton-appointed judge has given a group of illegal immigrants the green light to sue the U.S. government for violating their constitutional rights during the operation that led to their apprehension.

Ruling that immigration agents and their supervisors can be sued for civil damages, Connecticut federal Judge Stefan Underhill cited the illegal aliens’ story that “defendant officers targeted a primarily Latino neighborhood, arrested people who appeared Latino, detained one plaintiff solely because he spoke Spanish and appeared Latino, and taunted one plaintiff’s girlfriend by saying the plaintiffs were being taken to see Mexican singer Juan Gabriel.”

The accusations are enough to “plausibly allege” that the federal immigration agents “were motivated by a discriminatory purpose,” Judge Underhill’s 43-page ruling goes on to say. Underhill refused to dismiss charges against the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents who captured the illegal immigrants as well as their supervisors, which at the time headed the agency under President George W. Bush.
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Postby SF-Dano » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:18 am

RedWingFan wrote:
A Clinton-appointed judge has given a group of illegal immigrants the green light to sue the U.S. government for violating their constitutional rights during the operation that led to their apprehension.



Can someone please explain to me how illegals even have "Constitutional Rights". Maybe there is something I am missing here. Seriously. I thought the Constitution of the United States of America was for the citizens of said United States of America. You know the opening line of "We the People of the United States of America..."- I always believed that to mean, and grew up being taught, that this line denotes that this document and the rights there contained are for the Citizens of the US.

If someone can please explain to me what all the confusion about this is, please do. Also, I am not advocating or saying that people, governement, or law enforcement should go out and beat the crap out of illegals or knock them off or anything.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:41 am

I think the issue is discrimination - that it would be impossible to tell whether or not someone was an illegal simply because of their skin color or native language. The law, while far-reaching and overstated, is one that protects us all from a police state and arbitrary arrests. Kudos to the judge for upholding this one. Liberalism, my ass. This is about freedom from persecution and individual rights - it would seem to be one the Dems have in common with the Libertarians.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:31 am

Seven Wishes wrote:I think the issue is discrimination - that it would be impossible to tell whether or not someone was an illegal simply because of their skin color or native language. The law, while far-reaching and overstated, is one that protects us all from a police state and arbitrary arrests. Kudos to the judge for upholding this one. Liberalism, my ass. This is about freedom from persecution and individual rights - it would seem to be one the Dems have in common with the Libertarians.


I actually agree with you on this one. Someone cannot be singled out just because of their lack of English skills, skin color, etc. However...I do like the Arizona law, in which someone has to already be engaged by the police for another matter.
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Postby SF-Dano » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:03 am

OK. Honestly I am trying to learn here. I understand the profiling arguement. But in literal terms, and if I am correct that you have to be a US citizen to have "constitutional rights" under the US constitution, then how can an illegal alien have "constitutional rights" be violated? :?
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:55 am

SF-Dano wrote:OK. Honestly I am trying to learn here. I understand the profiling arguement. But in literal terms, and if I am correct that you have to be a US citizen to have "constitutional rights" under the US constitution, then how can an illegal alien have "constitutional rights" be violated? :?


They don't have full Constitutional rights for sure. I'm sure some civil rights should apply to them, though, because we also obviously cannot just treat them any old way we want to.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:46 pm

I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.
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Postby Saint John » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:48 pm

Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby slucero » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:02 pm

Old but it still applies...


http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/

Slate Magazine
explainer
Do Noncitizens Have Constitutional Rights?

Chris Suellentrop
Posted Thursday, Sept. 27, 2001, at 5:47 PM ET

Attorney General John Ashcroft wants the power to lock up immigrants suspected of terrorism and hold them indefinitely. Wouldn't this violate the Constitution?

Not necessarily. True, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. This fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild ( http://awesome.nlg.org/wp-content/uploa ... sh2004.pdf )outlines a host of rights afforded to immigrants and citizens alike. (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)

But immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would be unacceptable if applied to citizens.

In 1952's Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, the Supreme Court upheld the right of Congress to expel noncitizens who were former Communists. "In recognizing this power and this responsibility of Congress, one does not in the remotest degree align oneself with fears unworthy of the American spirit or with hostility to the bracing air of the free spirit," Justice Felix Frankfurter wrote in his concurrence. "One merely recognizes that the place to resist unwise or cruel legislation touching aliens is the Congress, not this Court."

Still, immigrants facing deportation do have some rights. Most are entitled to a hearing before an immigration judge, representation by a lawyer (but not one that's paid for by the government), and interpretation for non-English-speakers. The government must provide "clear and convincing" evidence to deport someone (a lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt").

On the other hand, some immigrants who are suspected terrorists may not be allowed to confront the evidence against them. In 1996, Congress established the Alien Terrorist Removal Court, a secret tribunal that can examine classified evidence. (Interestingly, Congress mandated in the same law that an immigrant tried by the terrorist court would have the right to counsel at government expense.) But the Alien Terrorist Removal Court has never been used, and a Department of Justice spokesman said he isn't aware of any plans to use the terrorist court any time soon.

Explainer thanks Jeanne Butterfield, executive director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association; immigration lawyer David Leopold; Russ Bergeron of the Immigration and Naturalization Service; this American Civil Liberties Union report; and Dan Nelson of the Department of Justice.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:51 am

Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:18 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:
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Postby conversationpc » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:32 am

Rockindeano wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:


Same here. :lol:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:45 am

Rockindeano wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:


Now I am going to spell the other way on purpose... :twisted:

When I am typing quickly half the time I barely spell at all...so get over it! LOL
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:52 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:


Now I am going to spell the other way on purpose... :twisted:

When I am typing quickly half the time I barely spell at all...so get over it! LOL


Don't LOOSE your cool Deano! LOL! :wink: :lol: :lol:
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Postby conversationpc » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:53 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:


Now I am going to spell the other way on purpose... :twisted:

When I am typing quickly half the time I barely spell at all...so get over it! LOL


Hint, hint...Usually in the upper-right part of your keyboard (that thing you type on) there is a Delete and Backspace key. :lol:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:03 am

conversationpc wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:


Now I am going to spell the other way on purpose... :twisted:

When I am typing quickly half the time I barely spell at all...so get over it! LOL


Hint, hint...Usually in the upper-right part of your keyboard (that thing you type on) there is a Delete and Backspace key. :lol:


Thank you Conversation-Obvious!
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Postby slucero » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:50 am

..... Merry Christmas America.... :shock:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tax-payers-tab-cool-9-trillion-and-then-some


The Tax-Payers' Tab: a Cool $9 Trillion and Then Some

Fed Finally Forks Up Documents Showing It Funded Wall Street's Off-Balance Sheet Vehicle

By PAM MARTENS
December 20, 2010

On December 1, the Fed was forced to release details of 21,000 funding transactions it made during the financial crisis, naming names and dollar amounts. Disclosure was due to a provision sparked by Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The voluminous data dump from the notoriously secret Fed shows just how deeply the Federal Reserve stepped into the shoes of Wall Street and, as the crisis grew and the normal channels of lending froze, the Fed effectively replaced Wall Street and money centers banks in terms of financing.

The Fed has thus far reported, without even disclosing specifics of its lending from its discount window, which it continues to draw a dark curtain around, that it supplied, in total, more than $9 trillion to Wall Street firms, commercial banks, foreign banks, corporations and some highly questionable off balance sheet entities. (Much smaller amounts were outstanding at any one time.)

A careful review of these data makes it highly likely the GAO will be releasing some startling findings come next July 2011. That’s when the American people will have a much clearer picture of how the Federal Reserve shoveled taxpayer money to Wall Street by the trillions. As a result of Senator Sanders’ legislative efforts, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) is to complete an audit by next summer of the Fed’s lending programs during the financial crisis.

The data starkly show a comatose Wall Street being resuscitated with whatever financial might the Federal Reserve could pump into its tangled web of funding vehicles. It also points to how the Fed was dispersing sums which dwarfed the U.S. Treasury’s $700 billion TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) bailout program while allowing the TARP to take the media heat for obscene funding of Wall Street.

The Fed has made the task of seeing the big picture of what it was up to exceptionally difficult by segregating its multi-prong funding into a dizzying array of spread sheets. Nonetheless, a few things jump off the pages. On the spread sheet for the Primary Dealer Credit Facility (a program to provide overnight loans to key brokerage firms, known as primary dealers because they assist the Fed in open market operations) are astronomical sums that Citigroup, Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch were drawing from the Fed on a regular basis from the Spring of 2008 to the Spring of 2009 (and potentially well beyond). The three firms borrowed almost equal sums which cumulatively totaled over $6 trillion, and that does not include their borrowing from other Fed facilities. In its current release the Fed cut off these data as of May 12, 2009 while the program lasted until February 1, 2010, making the full extent of this funding unknown at present. Calls to the Fed on this point had not been answered at CounterPunch’s press time.

Citigroup owns one of the largest commercial banks in the country, Citibank. One could reason that the bank’s solvency had come under serious question at that time and it needed massive liquidity to meet depositor withdrawals from its bank as well as to fund its $2 trillion balance sheet (with another $1 trillion in off-balance-sheet vehicles). Why Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch, which are large investment banks and retail brokerage firms, needed funds of this magnitude raises many questions.

Runs on banks, which invest depositor funds in illiquid assets like real estate and corporate loans, are typically met with a government liquidity response. Brokerage firms, on the other hand, hold stocks and bonds which can typically be sold in seconds with the proceeds “settling” (available to pay out) 3 business days later.

Liquidity problems were likely aggravated at Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch because they each cater to both institutional clients and retail mom and pop investors. While the mom and pop accounts should have had little trouble cashing out of most stocks, municipal bonds and well known corporate bonds, less liquid securities in institutional accounts may have found their markets frozen for trading and needed interim financing -- this may have included problematic commercial paper positions in some money market funds used by the big brokerage firms for both retail and institutional clients.

This mystery is further intensified by one Fed spread sheet showing that the largest Wall Street firms deposited a total of $2.1 trillion in stocks as collateral in order to obtain liquid funds from the Fed. Depositing stocks as collateral began on the day Lehman died and was done in large size by Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, and Citigroup. Raising additional red flags, tens of billions of dollars in stocks were posted as collateral by the London operations of Morgan, Merrill and Citi.

Was this publicly traded stock from the firms’ proprietary trading desks, otherwise known as the in-house casino? Was it illiquid private equity in which the firms had their money tied up? Was it equity tranches from the dubious Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs)? If it was either of the latter, how could it have been properly priced as collateral? The Fed describes the equity as follows: “Securities representing ownership interest in a private corporation….” Without knowing the details of these securities, or the other unspecified junk bonds used as collateral, we don’t know the extent of the trash the Fed was swapping for cash with Wall Street.

Merrill Lynch was rescued in a buyout by Bank of America on September 15, 2008, the same day that Lehman Brothers filed bankruptcy.

The Fed risking $9 trillion of taxpayer money to bail out positions of dubious worth is highlighted further in the spread sheet for the Commercial Paper Funding Facility, which loaned $38 billion more than TARP, or a total of $738 billion to fund not just U.S. corporations but foreign banks as well, potentially because they were ensnarled in Wall Street’s off-balance-sheet funding schemes. Most alarming, a significant portion of this went to conduits that hide liabilities of Wall Street firms off their balance sheets, leaving Wall Street short of capital for emergencies just like this one, and shareholders in the dark about the true risk of the company’s balance sheet.

The Commercial Paper Funding Facility was announced by the Fed on October 7, 2008, 3 weeks after Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. Its first funding day was October 27, 2008 and its last funding day was January 25, 2010. One of the borrowers on both its first day and last day of funding and many days in between was an entity called Hudson Castle, whose cumulative borrowings were over $50 billion from the Fed for commercial paper it sponsored for three off-balance-sheet conduits: Belmont Funding LLC, Ebbets Funding LLC, and Elysian Funding LLC.

On April 12 of this year, Louise Story and Eric Dash, writing for the New York Times, reported that while Hudson Castle was set up to appear to be an independent business, its board was controlled by Lehman; Lehman owned a quarter of the firm; and it was staffed with former Lehman employees. The reporters had gotten their hands on an internal 2001 Lehman memo indicating that the arrangement would maximize Lehman’s control over Hudson Castle “without jeopardizing the off-balance-sheet accounting treatment.” The memo noted further that Lehman would serve “as the internal and external ‘gatekeeper’ for all business activities conducted by the firm.” The internal document was authored by Kyle Miller, who worked at Lehman at the time but went over to Hudson Castle to become its president. According to the article, until 2004, Lehman had an exclusivity agreement with Hudson Castle, but the deal ended in 2004, with Lehman reducing its board seats from five to one.

Lehman was far from alone in having employees leave to set up conduits which conveniently benefited their former Wall Street employer by moving debt off the balance sheet. It was the norm, not the exception.
A July 2010 staff report from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, titled “Shadow Banking,” noted the following about the shadow system in which conduits played a significant role:

“The liquidity facilities of the Federal Reserve and other government agencies’ guarantee schemes were a direct response to the liquidity and capital shortfalls of shadow banks and, effectively, provided either a backstop to credit intermediation by the shadow banking system or to traditional banks for the exposure to shadow banks…."

“…this [shadow banking] system of public and private market participants has evolved and grown to a gross size of nearly $20 trillion in March 2008, which was significantly larger than the liabilities of the traditional banking system. However, market participants as well as regulators failed to synthesize the rich detail of otherwise publicly available information on either the scale of the shadow banking system or its interconnectedness with the traditional banking system…At a size of roughly $16 trillion in the first quarter of 2010, the shadow banking system remains an important, albeit shrinking source of credit for the real economy…”


In other words, the leverage in the system was not coming just from mortgage securitizations and esoteric derivatives but from off-balance-sheet debt parking schemes quite similar to that used by Enron.

On May 6 of this year, Viral Acharya, a Professor of Finance at NYU’s Stern School of Business, gave enlightening testimony on conduits to the House Committee on Financial Services’ Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations. Professor Acharya reported as follows:

“Our analysis makes it clear that from an economic standpoint conduits are ‘unregulated’ banks that operate in the shadow banking world, but with recourse to regulated entities, mainly commercial banks, that have access to government safety net. Our results also indicate that when these unregulated banks do not have such recourse (extendible notes and SIVs), they struggle to survive a systemic crisis…In particular, the structure of credit guarantees to asset-backed commercial paper conduits was designed by commercial banks to arbitrage regulatory capital requirements. Such possibilities – whereby government-insured banks effectively operate at higher leverage by putting assets off-balance sheet but granting them recourse – deserve regulatory scrutiny, especially when they operate at a scale that conduits did.”


Because asset-backed commercial paper is short term in duration with typically long-term assets, commercial banks like Citigroup (which is one of the largest players in the conduit field) provide liquidity guarantees to make the commercial paper investor whole if the paper can’t be rolled over at maturity. With Citigroup’s solvency in serious doubt at the peak of the financial crisis, its tentacles of backstopping conduits and issuing boatloads of commercial paper itself is likely to have played a pivotal role in seizing up this market. This might explain why we see corporate names like McDonalds, Caterpillar and Harley-Davidson selling commercial paper directly to the Fed according to the spreadsheets released on December 1.

With Citigroup having such a large presence in the conduit market, it strains the imagination how Citigroup’s former top executives, CEO Chuck Prince and Executive Committee Chair, Robert Rubin, could have testified to the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission on April 8 of this year that they had no idea until months into the crisis that Structured Investment Vehicles (SIVs) created by Citigroup and roosting off its balance sheet had liquidity puts that could, and did, force billions of the toxic assets back onto the bank’s balance sheet. SIVs are first cousins to conduits but typically have more leverage. Citigroup’s SIVs were shielding subprime debt instruments from being reflected on its balance sheet but were forced back on when they became impaired, leading to staggering losses for the bank.

It appears that what was essentially taking place in the Commercial Paper Funding Facility at the Fed was that the taxpayer stood in for the liquidity puts the Wall Street banks had no money to backstop.

Another well kept secret is that much of the commercial paper backed by dubious “assets” and housed in conduits regularly found its way into both retail and institutional money market funds. Those funds are supposed to be the safest of the safe and available to redeem at any time without a loss (or never breaking a buck in Street parlance). The Fed’s buck shot approach to spewing money at banks, brokerages, corporations, across the pond, and into the hands of questionable entities, may have been as much to save money market funds from a panic run as to save the Wall Street banks. Let us hope the GAO conducts a thorough investigation in this area.

Whether it was Credit Default Swaps or Collateralized Debt Obligations squared or conduits or SIVs, two words emerge from the hubris: leverage and greed. By leveraging the balance sheet, upper management could lay claim to massive compensation and bonuses.

This picture is encapsulated by an introductory comment by Phil Angelides, Chair of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, at the outset of a hearing on Citigroup on April 8, 2010:

Chairman Angelides: "Really, for the benefit of people watching today, it appears as though that there are about 51 billion dollars in write-offs related to subprime lending. The institution, as I understand it, is one that went from about 670 billion dollars in assets in about 1998 to 2.2 trillion dollars on balance sheet, another 1.2 trillion dollars off-balance sheet by 2007. By 2008, the tangible common equity-to-assets ratio we estimate at 61 to 1, with off-balance-sheet 97 to 1."


It takes only reading comprehension skills and zero Wall Street experience to read the above paragraph and know that this firm would blow up. How did Robert Rubin, former co-chair of Goldman Sachs and former U.S. Treasury Secretary, not see this at Citigroup. Mr. Rubin received over $125 million in compensation at Citigroup. Sandy Weill, the man who built the behemoth and its far flung network of dysfunctional parts and served as its CEO, received over $1 billion. The taxpayer received the tab.

Pam Martens worked on Wall Street for 21 years; she has no security position, long or short, in any company mentioned in this article. She writes on public interest issues from New Hampshire.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:58 am

artist4perry wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:I do support the arbitrary beatings of Polacks and Micks, though, so I guess I should join Jan Brewer's facebook page.


Everyone now and them you pop a complete winner dude. Definately sig worthy.


Dude, learn to spell definitely. Not picking on you because a lot of dumbshits here do it, but it's DEFINITELY. This torques the ever living shit out of me...almost as much as people saying loose instead of lose. Goddamned that irritates me to no end. :evil: :evil:


Now I am going to spell the other way on purpose... :twisted:

When I am typing quickly half the time I barely spell at all...so get over it! LOL


Don't LOOSE your cool Deano! LOL! :wink: :lol: :lol:


Can it Bitch! You spell about as good as Stevie Wonder drives a car. :twisted:
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