President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[RedWingFan]

Hmmm... Palin was right about "death panels".
But she didn't attend an expensive Ivy League university so I guess she's still an idiot huh? Just smarter than all of the Obama drones on this board who claimed the "death panels" were just her fear mongering.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/po ... .html?_r=1

There's nothing in this article about death panels. This is the same end-of-life provision that was debated earlier. Why shouldn't Medicare cover the cost of patients deciding with the doctors how they'd like to be treated in case they are severely incapacitated? Perhaps you would prefer the alternative - Congress convening an emergency meeting each time someone wants to pull the plug ala Terri Schiavo? Death is a part of living. Grow up, man.

Bullshit TNC...they are going to PUSH it over potential life saving measures because the cost is cheaper, they (the Obama administration) has said as much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo

[RedWingFan]

Bullshit again...I believe in people making choices...but end of life choices being pushed by a medical community contrained by government rules and regulations in regard to costs all the time while dealing with the stress of a loved one facing those choices is just a recipe for WRONG decisions.

Christ but you can spin...how about applying some COMMON sense instead of spin?

Who is pushing what? That is just your own anti-gov't paranoia.

Probably...I do NOT trust our Government...period...no matter WHO is in charge...but even less of late.

Dude, stop talking all crazy. It's not like they're going to try to take over the internet or anything. That's not going to happen. The dictator Bush was term limited out of office. Remember?

[donnaplease]

I have spent a significant amount of my career talking to patients and families about end-of-life choices. These decisions should absolutely be made as part of an 'advance directive' as opposed to at a time when fear and emotions weigh heavily on the ability to make sound decisions. No one wants to "decide" to let someone die - there can be a huge amount of guilt associated with that. I was responsible for helping both my parents and my brother decide end-of-life decisions, so I can also speak to it from a personal level. What I'm reading in the first article posted is that a provision in the bill now will reimburse a physician for the time spent counseling patients about the different aspects of advance directives - and there are tons of things to consider. In addition, there are many misconceptions about the choice to withhold certain treatments (such as the idea that Terry Shiavo 'starved to death' - this simply did not happen) that again once we get past the emotion of impending death it can be a very comforting thing to have these decisions made. With the portability of healthcare records these days it makes sense to have this discussion with your primary care physician.

Now, that said... I think what some people (myself included) are concerned about is the so-called 'slippery slope' that can lead to a "panel" deciding what treatments will be available to patients. For those of you who have been affected by this in the private sector, surely you can understand how this is a real concern for Medicare recipients, especially for those who are at the end of their life. BO's words (we all heard them) suggested that he might be in favor of this when he said that the 95 year old woman might be just as well off to 'take the pill' instead of getting the pacemaker. Hopefully there will be enough checks & balances in place to keep this from happening - I hope there will someone there watching the store.

[Seven Wishes2]

There isn't a PANEL for the love of God! It DOESN'T EXIST!!!!

Moving along....

[conversationpc]

There isn't a PANEL for the love of God! It DOESN'T EXIST!!!!

Moving along....

Honestly, I don't get the death panel thing, either. However...and it's a big however. I agree with Stu that I can certainly see something like that coming if the government does continue taking over the healthcare industry. If we keep heading in the direction we're going with massive spending programs, it's likely to happen.

[BobbyinTN]

Over 70% of Americans want a public option. I'm one of them. "Death Panels" are scare tactics.

[Monker]

Bullshit again...I believe in people making choices...but end of life choices being pushed by a medical community contrained by government rules and regulations in regard to costs all the time while dealing with the stress of a loved one facing those choices is just a recipe for WRONG decisions.

Christ but you can spin...how about applying some COMMON sense instead of spin?

Who is pushing what? That is just your own anti-gov't paranoia.

Probably...I do NOT trust our Government...period...no matter WHO is in charge...but even less of late.

Dude, stop talking all crazy. It's not like they're going to try to take over the internet or anything. That's not going to happen. The dictator Bush was term limited out of office. Remember?

Funny you mention that since W. basically legalized government spying on Email and other communications. Anything you write on the internet or speak on a phone is already be eyeballed and listened to by computers looking for terrorists and government threats. Not that it wasn't happening BEFORE W...but he made it easier.

[RedWingFan]

There isn't a PANEL for the love of God! It DOESN'T EXIST!!!!

Moving along....

You were saying Mr. Gore? You're stat of being wrong 100% of the time is still intact! Nice job.

ICE AGE: Columbia, SC has first Christmas snow since records kept in 1887...

Atlanta's First Since 1882...

Cold weather endangers sea creatures...

Record lows set for Miami, Key West...

[Seven Wishes2]

Once again, DouchebagFan...YOU ARE WRONG.

Just because you have completely fallen for the propaganda spewed out of the collective anuses of Fox, the robotic arm of the GOP, does NOT make you right.

THEY DON'T EXIST.

Not anywhere outside of your mind and the false reality you've constructed for yourself.

Moving along now...

Geez, even Dave agrees they're a myth. Get your thumb out of Hannity's ass and remove Beck's cock from that cum-stained mouth of yours.

[RossValoryRocks]

Once again, DouchebagFan...YOU ARE WRONG.

Just because you have completely fallen for the propaganda spewed out of the collective anuses of Fox, the robotic arm of the GOP, does NOT make you right.

THEY DON'T EXIST.

Not anywhere outside of your mind and the false reality you've constructed for yourself.

Moving along now...

Geez, even Dave agrees they're a myth. Get your thumb out of Hannity's ass and remove Beck's cock from that cum-stained mouth of yours.

I think it actually boils down to this: You trust the government to do the right thing, which they have ALMOST NEVER DONE, so probably a VAST majority of us DON'T TRUST the government.

It's a 2000 page bill from of which over 100,000 pages of regulation will be written...the regulations are where the actual enactment will happen, so it is probably better to say "No death panels, yet" but give it time and wait until the regulations are written.

I know it all sounds like nirvana, or utopia for you left leaners but I think you will find it's gonna bite you in the ass.

[donnaplease]

SOMEBODY is going to be making the decisions regarding what happens. If you don't want to call it a 'panel', fine. Call it a committee then. Maybe it's just one person, who knows. But decisions will have to be made regarding how this bill is regulated and what benefits are allowed. BO's own words have come back to haunt him I'm betting. Sure the term "death panel" was a scare tactic, it's what politicians do. Just like lots of other controversial subjects, people tend to exaggerate hoping their hyperbole will sway voters. It's pretty sad actually, but it is reality. Liberals do it too, Daniel. Just so happens that they are on the side of defending the scare tactic this time, not perpetrating it.

[lights1961]

There isn't a PANEL for the love of God! It DOESN'T EXIST!!!!

Moving along....

Honestly, I don't get the death panel thing, either. However...and it's a big however. I agree with Stu that I can certainly see something like that coming if the government does continue taking over the healthcare industry. If we keep heading in the direction we're going with massive spending programs, it's likely to happen.

yes there is a DEATH PANEL... they rephrased it and are keeping it seceret as long as they can... and it is called the END OF LIFE discussions that medicare will pay for... so what will medicare pay for that will be the issue in the coming decades for the eldery... or decide NOT to pay for... that will be the trillion dollar question...

[slucero]

"Dirt Nap Panel"... or "Permanent Retirement Panel" has a nice ring to it...


God help them if they call it the "Final Solution Panel"

[Seven Wishes2]

There isn't a PANEL for the love of God! It DOESN'T EXIST!!!!

Moving along....

Honestly, I don't get the death panel thing, either. However...and it's a big however. I agree with Stu that I can certainly see something like that coming if the government does continue taking over the healthcare industry. If we keep heading in the direction we're going with massive spending programs, it's likely to happen.

yes there is a DEATH PANEL... they rephrased it and are keeping it seceret as long as they can... and it is called the END OF LIFE discussions that medicare will pay for... so what will medicare pay for that will be the issue in the coming decades for the eldery... or decide NOT to pay for... that will be the trillion dollar question...

Another brilliant and insightful post, slucero. How ignorant.

Physicians and patients (and their families) have been having these discussions for decades. The only difference is now Medicare will reimburse for it. Billions will be saved simply by allowing lucid elderly people to make THEIR OWN decisions about THEIR BODIES and THEIR LIVES. That's how I would want it...what about you? And for the love of God, this is NOT a NEW IDEA. It's been happening for many many years now. Sheesh.

THERE ARE NO FUCKING DEATH PANELS. Pull O'Reilly's cock out of your ass.

[RossValoryRocks]

THERE ARE NO FUCKING DEATH PANELS.

Yet...the regulations haven't been written...so yet...and of course they won't call them Death Panels...some suitably easy on the tongue...EOLFA's (End of life financial assistants) or something that has the "were from the government, and we are here to help you!" ring to it!

Pull O'Reilly's cock out of your ass.

Once you are done with polishing the knobs of Olbermann, Matthews, the strap on of Rachel Maddow and tossing the salad of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid then he will consider it!

[ohsherrie]

What else would we expect from Fox News viewers:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/study-fox-ne ... consumers/

http://www.prwatch.org/node/9822

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ws-viewers

http://www.americablog.com/2010/12/poll ... ormed.html

They truly know naught of what they speak. They only parrot their pontificating pundits.

[slucero]

There isn't a PANEL for the love of God! It DOESN'T EXIST!!!!

Moving along....

Honestly, I don't get the death panel thing, either. However...and it's a big however. I agree with Stu that I can certainly see something like that coming if the government does continue taking over the healthcare industry. If we keep heading in the direction we're going with massive spending programs, it's likely to happen.

yes there is a DEATH PANEL... they rephrased it and are keeping it seceret as long as they can... and it is called the END OF LIFE discussions that medicare will pay for... so what will medicare pay for that will be the issue in the coming decades for the eldery... or decide NOT to pay for... that will be the trillion dollar question...

Another brilliant and insightful post, slucero. How ignorant.

Physicians and patients (and their families) have been having these discussions for decades. The only difference is now Medicare will reimburse for it. Billions will be saved simply by allowing lucid elderly people to make THEIR OWN decisions about THEIR BODIES and THEIR LIVES. That's how I would want it...what about you? And for the love of God, this is NOT a NEW IDEA. It's been happening for many many years now. Sheesh.

THERE ARE NO FUCKING DEATH PANELS. Pull O'Reilly's cock out of your ass.

Apparently along with your attitude you also have no sense of humor...

I was making a joke... I actually haven't seen language that says death panels either dipshit.... (man you are such a whiney bitch)

Here's a picture so you know what to pick up tonight at the store...

[Michigan Girl]

heee heeee ...you know that's hysterical, 7 ...show him you have a sense of humor!!

[lights1961]

after you have had your late term end of life discussion talks with your doctor in 25 years... come back to me and see what kind of care you will be qualified for... you might not be qualifed for any care...or you might be qualified for some care... just not the care you need... as it wont be up to you, it will be up to some board of directors higher up the chain than your doctor... he might want to help you... but not be able too...

[donnaplease]

Physicians and patients (and their families) have been having these discussions for decades. The only difference is now Medicare will reimburse for it.

Yes, they have, and all too often it ends there. Then, when a dramatic event occurs (MI, stroke, whatever...) and the patient is left unable to express their wishes, it's up to loved ones to do it. Because of fear, or guilt, or simply lack of knowledge they do not want to make the call to not perform life sustaining treatments.

Billions will be saved simply by allowing lucid elderly people to make THEIR OWN decisions about THEIR BODIES and THEIR LIVES. That's how I would want it...what about you? And for the love of God, this is NOT a NEW IDEA. It's been happening for many many years now. Sheesh.

IDK about billions, but lots of money and LOTS of heartache can be saved by putting our wishes in writing so our loved ones don't have to deal with the emotions of making that decision for us. We don't have to wait until we're elderly, though. The rules vary from state to state I think, but it's really easy to create one.

Daniel, can't you understand that although this statement didn't call for decisions on regulating what services Medicare recipients could get, that it is a possibility that it could happen at some point? Just as some democrats have said that even though the public option isn't included in the HC bill as it currently stands, the hope is that at some point it gets added through revision and regulation.

[RossValoryRocks]

What else would we expect from Fox News viewers:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/study-fox-ne ... consumers/

http://www.prwatch.org/node/9822

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ws-viewers

http://www.americablog.com/2010/12/poll ... ormed.html

They truly know naught of what they speak. They only parrot their pontificating pundits.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not watch Fox News...I can read however, and I have read the new Health Care law. Every page. Gotta printed copy sitting on top of my desk. I also know the fine, upstanding, and moral establishment that is our Federal Government. Please by all means trust them if you so choose, but don't be suprised when down the line those of us who don't give ya a bit fat "We told you so!".

Go read the whole law and see what is in there, I don't the time nor inclination to educate you on what you are cheering is about to do to this country, and not in a positive way.

I agree we need changes done to our healthcare system, and yes this does qualify as change, but in the end when this is fully in effect and the 100,000 or so pages of regulation are written that the law requires to be be effective, don't say we didn't warn you liberals about the problems it is going to cause financially for you and for our country, as well as the fact that it will do NOTHING to impove care or lower existing costs.

[donnaplease]

Some interesting thoughts on the subject:

http://abytesgen01.securesites.net/howa ... d-of-life/

[Memorex]

What else would we expect from Fox News viewers:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/study-fox-ne ... consumers/

http://www.prwatch.org/node/9822

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ws-viewers

http://www.americablog.com/2010/12/poll ... ormed.html

They truly know naught of what they speak. They only parrot their pontificating pundits.

For what it is worth, and I am not a big cable news show guy, this study has been debunked in several places. The study itself suggests that it does not clarify what "informed" means.

Huffington post, fox, and msnbc are all different sides of the same coin. I assure you they are equal in facts, plus a ton of opinion. Let's get real here.

[conversationpc]

What else would we expect from Fox News viewers:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/study-fox-ne ... consumers/

http://www.prwatch.org/node/9822

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ws-viewers

http://www.americablog.com/2010/12/poll ... ormed.html

They truly know naught of what they speak. They only parrot their pontificating pundits.

For what it is worth, and I am not a big cable news show guy, this study has been debunked in several places. The study itself suggests that it does not clarify what "informed" means.

Huffington post, fox, and msnbc are all different sides of the same coin. I assure you they are equal in facts, plus a ton of opinion. Let's get real here.

Informed or misinformed is in the mind of the biased individual. We live in an age of politics where so-called plain language in a bill can mean something totally different and confusion language can mean something very plain. One party can say there is something in the bill and the other can say it doesn't and the truth could be somewhere in between. That's the problem with these behemoth bills our congress seems to have become so infatuated with.

[Seven Wishes2]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

[conversationpc]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

Nah...I don't follow the Bill Maher line of thinking. For the most part, people like him are the ones who are idiots.

[RossValoryRocks]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

Well Soros would know, he helped the SS send enough of his own people to them.

[Rockindeano]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

Nah...I don't follow the Bill Maher line of thinking. For the most part, people like him are the ones who are idiots.

Riiiggghhhttt. That guy is a fucking genius. Keep on listening to Rush and Sean.

[conversationpc]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

Nah...I don't follow the Bill Maher line of thinking. For the most part, people like him are the ones who are idiots.

Riiiggghhhttt. That guy is a fucking genius. Keep on listening to Rush and Sean.

Do you actually take time to read anything around here? How many times do I have to say that I don't like Hannity OR Rush.

Anyway, Maher is a nimrod, condescending faux-intellectual.

[Rockindeano]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

I care. I will NEVER EVER cross over to the evil side of the aisle. Those sonsofbitching right wing religious morons will never get my vote, EVER!

They represent everything that is wrong with America and life in general. To Hell with ALL of them.