President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[hoagiepete]

Why is it around here that anyone with a conservative thought or perspective is mearly a puppet for FOX and the libs purport to all be well-read intellects that garner their perspectives from...from...where ever the hell they garner them from.

Those that accuse without knowing the facts (especially the auto paste...Limbaugh/Hannity follower comments) continue to make yourselves look foolish and confirm you really don't know what the hell you are talking about.

And ...there are plenty of right wing nutjobs, but, there are also actally some pretty decent R's that are trying to do the right thing. If you turned the D's loose without restraint as some would like to see, it would be like letting a bunch of 10 year olds into a candy store and letting them have at it for a day. The kids would eat until they were sick, the D's would spend until we're broke(er). Balance is good.

[Seven Wishes2]

Funny thing is, the government increased by 85% under Republican Administrations since 1960, and only 15% of the largesse came on Democratic watches.

That being said, I've already stated I'm not a big fan of entitlement programs. Many Democrats are not.

What's foolish is to copy and paste editorial comments that aren't factual at all - merely just opinions that fly in the face of known facts - and attempt to present them as reality.

I'm a big fan of George Will, and I could see myself aligning with a social moderate / fiscal conservative Republican in a Presidential election. Whereas Obama has governed from just left of center - and most of the legislation he helped pass was initiated by the GOP, but disowned only when he attached his name to it - this country cannot withstand another Dubbya-type budget-killing warmonger. Look, the stimulus package was a pile of rubbish and a complete waste - and I've already stated the health care bill was watered down and weak, and should have gone hand in hand with tort reform - but the Wall Street and Auto bailouts literally saved America from a second Great Depression. You have to spend some money in a deep recession - it's the only way out of the hole.

When Faux News parrotheads (I'm mainly thinking about GoebbelsFan and LieFinder here) continue to post opinions that are not based on fact, don't pass the litmus test or a truth-o-meter, and then tell anyone who points that out to them that they're lacking in mental capacity, it's laughable to the point of absurdity.

While I'm usually not in agreement with Dave, Dan and Stu on philosophical issues, I respect their conservative-liberatrian approach to individual rights. They're often right, and I've corrected myself on numberous occasions in the past...I've even changed the way I think about some things in the past few years, because I looked at my own ideals, mores, and precepts, and evaluated them against evolving truths and information.

[conversationpc]

While I'm usually not in agreement with Dave, Dan and Stu on philosophical issues, I respect their conservative-liberatrian approach to individual rights. They're often right, and I've corrected myself on numberous occasions in the past...I've even changed the way I think about some things in the past few years, because I looked at my own ideals, mores, and precepts, and evaluated them against evolving truths and information.

I think I'm going to be sick and then keel over and die immediately.

[RedWingFan]

When Faux News parrotheads (I'm mainly thinking about GoebbelsFan and LieFinder here)

I haven't watched a full Fox News program in years. Another swing and miss, Mr. Thinningthehumanherd. Your 100% is still intact. You've long ago surpassed the 2008 Detroit Lions.

[Seven Wishes2]

Way to throw out the red herring, HimmlerFan.

You literally not only copy and paste, but also swallow EVERY Faux position hook, line, and sinker.

You are as original as a xerox. You're a fourth line defenseman on a seven-man hockey team.

[Rockindeano]

Way to throw out the red herring, HimmlerFan.

You literally not only copy and paste, but also swallow EVERY Faux position hook, line, and sinker.

You are as original as a xerox. You're a fourth line defenseman on a seven-man hockey team.

RWF, you have to admit, this is funny as fuck.

[RedWingFan]

Way to throw out the red herring, HimmlerFan.

You literally not only copy and paste, but also swallow EVERY Faux position hook, line, and sinker.

You are as original as a xerox. You're a fourth line defenseman on a seven-man hockey team.

RWF, you have to admit, this is funny as fuck.

Yeah, hilarious. What's comical is how thinningoutthehumanherd is wrong all the time. C'mon TOTHH, make some 2012 predictions so we can have another good laugh when the results roll in!!!

[Seven Wishes2]

KaiserWilhelmFan, there is a HUGE difference between predictive accuracy and factual accuracy.

Way back at the beginning of the 2010 cycle, I believed the GOP was in trouble if it stood in line with the TeaBaggers. Well, I was half right - it did cost them a majority in the Senate.

However, the actual FACTS I use to back up my assertions are an entirely different story - and their veracity is beyond dispute.

You are a walking fallacy.

Have fun at Wal-Mart tomorrow.

[Rockindeano]

Hey, in all seriousness, I personally would love to see less personal attacks in this thread. Look, this is by far the most intellectual thread on this God foresaken board.....can we maintain any semblance of civility?

I for one will do my damdest to conform to this idea.

[fredinator]

KaiserWilhelmFan, lol. I just got a huge chuckle after listening to the radio tonight: the host said he had heard that passengers were showing up in Speedos at some airports. I just love America...

[RedWingFan]

Hey, in all seriousness, I personally would love to see less personal attacks in this thread.

Me too dude, kinda hard when you're dealing with a race-card thrower though.

[Seven Wishes2]

Really? You're the most egregious offender on the board. Hypocrite. Even your sig is a personal attack. Personally, I find it pretty amusing.

[Seven Wishes2]

Really? You're the most egregious offender on the board. Hypocrite. Even your sig is a personal attack. Personally, I find it pretty amusing.

[RossValoryRocks]

Hey, in all seriousness, I personally would love to see less personal attacks in this thread. Look, this is by far the most intellectual thread on this God foresaken board.....can we maintain any semblance of civility?

I for one will do my damdest to conform to this idea.

Fuck off Mr. Shitmiester!
We will ruin...err...run our thread like we run our government: by driving it into the ground!



Just kidding...well except on the shitmiester part...I have the photos of the log jams to prove it too!

I do agree, about being more civil but the possibilities of things coming undone are pretty high, and probably contribute to people viewing the thread.

[Memorex]

Hey, in all seriousness, I personally would love to see less personal attacks in this thread. Look, this is by far the most intellectual thread on this God foresaken board.....can we maintain any semblance of civility?

I for one will do my damdest to conform to this idea.

Fuck off Mr. Shitmiester!
We will ruin...err...run our thread like we run our government: by driving it into the ground!



Just kidding...well except on the shitmiester part...I have the photos of the log jams to prove it too!

I do agree, about being more civil but the possibilities of things coming undone are pretty high, and probably contribute to people viewing the thread.

I agree that the likelihood of things coming undone is growing, but not because of Obama or Palin or whoever people want to pick on today. It's because the voices on the far reaches of each side are becoming louder and louder and drowning out the middle. And it seems if you are right-leaning or left-leaning, you have to take more extreme positions just to defend against the other side. I think the media and the talking heads are pushing us away from each other. I think if you re-read this whole thread, you'd see it as a small microcosm of society as a whole. I find it sad.

That said, this administration, like the last, can do a whole lot better. And people on each side need to recognize that. And more importantly, I think we need to shake up congress in such a way that they remember why they are there. Make it a part time job with very little pay. I'd like to see a situation where the people get to vote on bills that are larger than a certain dollar amount. Congress is our real problem and they are completely our of step and out of control. Both sides.

That's my opinion anyway.

[RedWingFan]

Really? You're the most egregious offender on the board. Hypocrite. Even your sig is a personal attack. Personally, I find it pretty amusing.

Correction. It's two personal attacks the first, a lousy attempt by you, the second a brilliant one by Saint John!!!

I didn't even participate. Yes, this means you're wrong again!

[Red13JoePa]

Barack JUST in time with congratulating the Eagles on giving Mike Vick a second chance.
He's only been in Philly a year and half.
Whoops, oh now he's playing well and is a media sensation!

[Monker]

SOMEBODY is going to be making the decisions regarding what happens. If you don't want to call it a 'panel', fine. Call it a committee then. Maybe it's just one person, who knows. But decisions will have to be made regarding how this bill is regulated and what benefits are allowed. BO's own words have come back to haunt him I'm betting. Sure the term "death panel" was a scare tactic, it's what politicians do. Just like lots of other controversial subjects, people tend to exaggerate hoping their hyperbole will sway voters. It's pretty sad actually, but it is reality. Liberals do it too, Daniel. Just so happens that they are on the side of defending the scare tactic this time, not perpetrating it.

The point is: The DISCUSSION is what is being paid for and what is being called a 'death panel'. The DECiSION is up to the patient - and it may, or may not be paid for...if you remove the wording that caused the 'death panel' propaganda bullshit, how the DECISION is paid for remains the same.

[Monker]

Daniel, can't you understand that although this statement didn't call for decisions on regulating what services Medicare recipients could get, that it is a possibility that it could happen at some point? Just as some democrats have said that even though the public option isn't included in the HC bill as it currently stands, the hope is that at some point it gets added through revision and regulation.

That is nothing but a 'what if'. You can make the same statement about ANY bill that passes congress. It's just ridiculous guessing about the future.

If the 'what if' of a 'death panel' enters the debate in congress - then you will have a point. It will need to be voted on and pass, just like anything else....and those who vote for it will have to face reelection. Until this actually happens, you have NO POINT WHATSOEVER.

[Monker]

Meh. We're a nation of idiots anyway. Who cares which side of the spectrum with which we align ourselves? We're all going to die anyway...especially if Soros has his way and we're all put in re-education camps.

Nah...I don't follow the Bill Maher line of thinking. For the most part, people like him are the ones who are idiots.

Any country that can reelect W as President is a country of idiots.

Maher is right on many things. He is right that people can be convinced to vote against their own best interests. People ARE stupid.

People can be convinced that tax breaks for the wealthiest can actually help the poor. They can be convinced pot is more addictive and more dangerous then tobacco or alcohol. They can be convinced going to war is actually promoting peace and that asking for peace is a prelude to war. They can be convinced that a conservative is a liberal and a liberal is a conservative. They can be convinced that a good person is evil and an evil person is good. With enough time, people can be convinced that 2+2=5.

That is the truth...and it has been the truth for thousands of years. Hitler was very good at the above...and the politics of today follows in his footsteps....and Orwell was speaking more to reality then fiction.

[conversationpc]

Any country that can reelect W as President is a country of idiots.

We elected Obama also, didn't we?

Maher is right on many things. He is right that people can be convinced to vote against their own best interests. People ARE stupid.

Possibly so...People do continue to vote straight party tickets for either of the two major, mostly inept, political parties.

People can be convinced that tax breaks for the wealthiest can actually help the poor.

I don't know of anyone who's saying that tax breaks only for the wealthy will help the poor. Tax breaks for ALL help ALL.

[donnaplease]

SOMEBODY is going to be making the decisions regarding what happens. If you don't want to call it a 'panel', fine. Call it a committee then. Maybe it's just one person, who knows. But decisions will have to be made regarding how this bill is regulated and what benefits are allowed. BO's own words have come back to haunt him I'm betting. Sure the term "death panel" was a scare tactic, it's what politicians do. Just like lots of other controversial subjects, people tend to exaggerate hoping their hyperbole will sway voters. It's pretty sad actually, but it is reality. Liberals do it too, Daniel. Just so happens that they are on the side of defending the scare tactic this time, not perpetrating it.

The point is: The DISCUSSION is what is being paid for and what is being called a 'death panel'. The DECiSION is up to the patient - and it may, or may not be paid for...if you remove the wording that caused the 'death panel' propaganda bullshit, how the DECISION is paid for remains the same.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but upon further thought, until I see HOW this discussion will be reimbursed I think it's just more bullshit government vocal gymnastics. Insurance companies don't generally pay for individual things.... "We'll pay you $20 to treat Mr. Smith's blood pressure, $10 for his enlarged prostate, and $25 to reorder his Viagra for today's visit". They generally pay based on the level of complexity that the visit itself contains. If a visit takes 45 minutes a physician might bill a 99213 code which is reimbursed X dollars, and whatever the MD does during that visit is included in what they get. Nat could probably explain it better than me. Some things are 'add-ons', like lab draws, etc, so it could be paid like that, IDK.

ANYTIME the discussion happens, it's a win. IMO.

[donnaplease]

Daniel, can't you understand that although this statement didn't call for decisions on regulating what services Medicare recipients could get, that it is a possibility that it could happen at some point? Just as some democrats have said that even though the public option isn't included in the HC bill as it currently stands, the hope is that at some point it gets added through revision and regulation.

That is nothing but a 'what if'. You can make the same statement about ANY bill that passes congress. It's just ridiculous guessing about the future.

If the 'what if' of a 'death panel' enters the debate in congress - then you will have a point. It will need to be voted on and pass, just like anything else....and those who vote for it will have to face reelection. Until this actually happens, you have NO POINT WHATSOEVER.

Of course I don't.

[conversationpc]

If the 'what if' of a 'death panel' enters the debate in congress - then you will have a point. It will need to be voted on and pass, just like anything else....and those who vote for it will have to face reelection. Until this actually happens, you have NO POINT WHATSOEVER.

Actually, as I understand it, something like this could be enacted by a regulation that is NOT voted upon by Congress.

[Rockindeano]

I don't know of anyone who's saying that tax breaks only for the wealthy will help the poor. Tax breaks for ALL help ALL.

Please do me and everybody else a favor and take a political science 101 class. Dude, check yourself. Tax cuts do NOT help the fucking poor. Tax cuts line the pockets of the wealthy republican. You are on crack if you think a poor minority black woman in Milwaukee or Kansas City benefits from a tax cut to a wealthy rich pig headed fuck in upstate NY.

Sorry bro, Sean and Rush fed you a line of shit. Call him up tomorrow and get your proper talking points.

The GOP can give two shits about the poor or the working poor or even the middle fucking class. It's true, and you can't spin this. John Edwards was and is a douche but he was correct when he said there are "two Americas." The have's and the have not's. We are a sad place to be. I am embarrassed to call America home. We should look up at the nation above us on the map and take a hint, a clue as to what the fuck to do with our citizens.

If you haven't noticed lately, we are circling the drain, rapidly I might add. What we are doing here is NOT working.

[conversationpc]

Please do me and everybody else a favor and take a political science 101 class. Dude, check yourself. Tax cuts do NOT help the fucking poor. Tax cuts line the pockets of the wealthy republican. You are on crack if you think a poor minority black woman in Milwaukee or Kansas City benefits from a tax cut to a wealthy rich pig headed fuck in upstate NY.

Bullcrap. Tax breaks help everyone. BTW..."Fucking poor"? If I had used that line, you'd be on here calling me a cold-hearted neocon or something to that effect.

Sorry bro, Sean and Rush fed you a line of shit. Call him up tomorrow and get your proper talking points.

Once again...Pay attention this time and I'll type REAAAAAALLLLLL SLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWW. I'm...not.....a...fan....of....Hannity....or........Limbaugh. In fact, I've hardly listending to any talk radio or television at all for the last few weeks.

[Angel]

I am embarrassed to call America home. We should look up at the nation above us on the map and take a hint, a clue as to what the fuck to do with our citizens.

Why don't you go back there??

[Seven Wishes2]

FartFinder, how exactly is it you define a "truth"? Because Dean feels that way does not invalidate his feelings on the matter if three-fourths of the country believes differently.

It was only a matter of time before you opened your yapper again.

I'm much more comortable perpetually debunking your op-ed copy and paste jobs.

[Rockindeano]

I am embarrassed to call America home. We should look up at the nation above us on the map and take a hint, a clue as to what the fuck to do with our citizens.

Why don't you go back there??

Why don't you straddle a cactus encased dildo, you fuckin' skank hooker bitch.

[Angel]

I am embarrassed to call America home. We should look up at the nation above us on the map and take a hint, a clue as to what the fuck to do with our citizens.

Why don't you go back there??

Why don't you straddle a cactus encased dildo, you fuckin' skank hooker bitch.

I did that yesterday, if I do it too often it won't be as much of a thrill.