President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Angel]

It's really quite simple Natalie. As president, I would appoint an expert in the field, and have him or her work on the things I insisted be in the bill; ie, the public option. I would tell him or her, what my desires were, and to get it done. I would then tell my Congressional peers that EVERY citizen is to be covered, period.

I don't care how you fund it, just fund it.

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

I notice you didn't refute my points on Canada, the UK and Cuba having HC for its' people, and if they could do that, why couldn't we? Care to take the question, Nurse?

So your answer is "it's simple, just make it happen, I don't know or care how, just do it." Yes, great solution....and you didn't tell me what you would fix about the current system either.

You're right, I didn't refute your other points-I was taking one at a time. Are you sure the health care in these places is as high quality as it is in the US? Because the answer is, it's not. You'd sacrifice quality. Sure more people would have healthcare coverage but everyone would end up having lower quality care, there would be waiting lists for non-life threatening procedures, etc.

I know this is going to sound a bit insensitive and harsh but for the sake of arguement-tell me this-why IS healthcare a RIGHT? Why is it that those who choose to not work and not contribute to society DESERVE healthcare?

[RossValoryRocks]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

[Rockindeano]

So your answer is "it's simple, just make it happen, I don't know or care how, just do it." Yes, great solution....and you didn't tell me what you would fix about the current system either.

I as president, would be smart enough to say, I am NOT an expert in the HC field, however, I am the president, and my ambition/goal is to have each citizen covered, no questions asked. As for what we could do to fix it and insure everyone? Well, for one, many people, who now currently enjoy their own personal HC, could keep it, no problem. See, you think that the only people who don't work don't have insurance. There are millions, maybe 20-30 million who DO work and have NO insurance. That must stop. There could possibly be tax breaks for companies providing HC to its' employees, and those companies that don't would not receive said benefits. I don't have the ultimate answers yet, because I am not involved deeply with it. I can tell you though, if I were to study this animal to death, I could come up with something that would get me my presidential goal of all citizens being covered, I would guarantee you that much.

You're right, I didn't refute your other points-I was taking one at a time. Are you sure the health care in these places is as high quality as it is in the US? Because the answer is, it's not. You'd sacrifice quality. Sure more people would have healthcare coverage but everyone would end up having lower quality care, there would be waiting lists for non-life threatening procedures, etc.

More nonsensical republican talking points. We've been through this before. I can speak for Canada. Their HC is every bit as high quality as the US, and on a grand scale, it is much better. Why you ask? Because EVERY citizen is covered. I know you can't wrap that little fact around your head, but it is just that. THAT is or should be, the ultimate goal, and Canada achieved that. Canadians laugh at the US for it's selfishness in regards to this issue. Trust me Natalie, Canadians wouldn't exchange places based on HC. It polls very high up there, with favourables in the 80's. Hell, ask Deb, SherriBerry or TripleS if they like their care? I guarantee you they would all say yes.

I know this is going to sound a bit insensitive and harsh but for the sake of arguement-tell me this-why IS healthcare a RIGHT? Why is it that those who choose to not work and not contribute to society DESERVE healthcare?

Health care is something that many if not most times, is beyond a person's control. We were born imperfect humans, and despite what many say, we are not born equals. Many are born with defects and symptoms through no fault of their own. It is my belief that the common man, especially in the world's ONLY superpower, should take care of it's brothers and sisters. It's called being humanly. Driving a car is a privilege. Having one's body looked after and cared for is a different animal. It's just my belief. Let me ask you this righties. Why do all of you swarm to defend right to life in terms of abortion, but once born, you take the opposite viewpoint? So it's pertinent to have a baby be born, because life is precious, yet once born, "you're on your own?" I don't grasp that at all.

As for people who choose not to work? What can you do? You can't legislate morality and principle. However, they are still people no? Also, let me ask you this Natalie. The elderly don't work, yet still receive Medicare. What's the difference?

[Rockindeano]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

[Angel]

So if I can keep my own medical insurance-and you think everyone should be covered but more taxes (among other things) then I get to pay for my current coverage as well as pay higher taxes to pay for coverage for those who choose not to pay for their own healthcare? Hmm....interesting....

As for the elderly with Medicare-most of them have worked their whole lives and paid into the system-they deserve it.

Based on my observations, most people with no insurance or government assistance do NOT take care of their bodies. Most are overweight, smoke, drink, eat a very unhealthy diet and their lifestyle choices often lead to their health problems. Let's take yourself for example-you believe you have a RIGHT to healthcare that is funded by the government. Do you exercise for 30-60 minutes a day at least 4-5 days a week? Do you limit refined sugars? Do you limit your fat intake? Do you avoid alcohol? (I know you don't smoke...good for you on that one!) Do you eat a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables? Do you avoid fastfood resturants? Do you get 8 hours of sleep a night? Lastly, do you contribute to the system that you wish to pay for your healthcare? If you answered no to these questions they why do you have a RIGHT to healthcare that is funded by the government? If you are not willing to do your part then why do you DESERVE to have the government pay to fix the mess you've gotten yourself into? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Rockindeano]

So if I can keep my own medical insurance-and you think everyone should be covered but more taxes (among other things) then I get to pay for my current coverage as well as pay higher taxes to pay for coverage for those who choose not to pay for their own healthcare? Hmm....interesting....

I said, or was trying to imply, that there might have to, likely have to, be some shared taxation, private insurance combinations..I obviously am not absolutely positive how it would work, but with anything, it is possible.

As for the elderly with Medicare-most of them have worked their whole lives and paid into the system-they deserve it.

You sure about that? Sure, many have worked their entire lives, but let me remind you, the elderly now, grew up from the 20's and 30's, and came from one parent working households. Many women were just housewives, who may have contributed zero in taxes in her life. Should we deny her coverage? Probably not.

Based on my observations, most people with no insurance or government assistance do NOT take care of their bodies. Most are overweight, smoke, drink, eat a very unhealthy diet and their lifestyle choices often lead to their health problems.

Good point. No argument from me here.

Let's take yourself for example-you believe you have a RIGHT to healthcare that is funded by the government. Do you exercise for 30-60 minutes a day at least 4-5 days a week?

No, but I do work, which is exercise in itself, so maybe the answer is yes.

Do you limit refined sugars?

Nope

Do you limit your fat intake?

Nope

Do you avoid alcohol?

Nope

(I know you don't smoke...good for you on that one!)

Thanks

Do you eat a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables?

Yes actually. Love broccoli and corn and am addicted to honeycrisp apples

Do you avoid fast food restaurants?

Nope. Have you read my Burger Tales lately? You know I love the Whopper.

Do you get 8 hours of sleep a night?

Unfortunately, working nights, no way. I am lucky to get 4 or 5 hours a day. Sucks. You know how hard it is to work nights.

Lastly, do you contribute to the system that you wish to pay for your healthcare?

Yes I do. And I have NO problem as a taxpayer helping to fund an HC account that will help others in this country lead healthier and longer lives. Hey Natalie, prisoners get health care, why can't law abiding citizens?

[Angel]

OK so we're really right back where we started...you want everyone to have healthcare regardless of what they do to destroy their own health. You're not sure how it will be paid for but that really doesn't matter because it's a "right" and those things that are "rights" should magically be paid for....and it's also everyone's "right" to choose to not work and just play the victim card-or to work in a low paying job with no ambition to ever work toward a better life-that better life should just be handed to them. And they should have the "right" to the same quality of medical care and the same services as those who pay for the healthcare....

[Rockindeano]

OK so we're really right back where we started...you want everyone to have healthcare regardless of what they do to destroy their own health. You're not sure how it will be paid for but that really doesn't matter because it's a "right" and those things that are "rights" should magically be paid for....and it's also everyone's "right" to choose to not work and just play the victim card-or to work in a low paying job with no ambition to ever work toward a better life-that better life should just be handed to them. And they should have the "right" to the same quality of medical care and the same services as those who pay for the healthcare....

Feeble attempt to muddy up the waters.

I stand by my beliefs. You make it sound like this "problem" can't be overcome. There are a helluva lot worse programs in Govt than HC. Cut the shit programs out, fund the HC account and be happy.

[Angel]

OK so we're really right back where we started...you want everyone to have healthcare regardless of what they do to destroy their own health. You're not sure how it will be paid for but that really doesn't matter because it's a "right" and those things that are "rights" should magically be paid for....and it's also everyone's "right" to choose to not work and just play the victim card-or to work in a low paying job with no ambition to ever work toward a better life-that better life should just be handed to them. And they should have the "right" to the same quality of medical care and the same services as those who pay for the healthcare....

Feeble attempt to muddy up the waters.

I stand by my beliefs. You make it sound like this "problem" can't be overcome. There are a helluva lot worse programs in Govt than HC. Cut the shit programs out, fund the HC account and be happy.

You're right, it can be overcome-but increasing the amount of money spent on HC coverage is NOT the answer. Cutting what we pay for is the answer. Cover ONLY the bare minimum for those with goverment healthcare....for example (and for obvious reasons these examples will mostly be women's health related) don't cover epidurals for labor, don't cover ultrasounds in the absence of complications, don't cover non-lifethreatening medications, don't cover elective lab tests, limit the number of pregnancies covered for each person. Put conditions on coverage-lifestyle changes are mandatory, co-pays are required-income and assets must be disclosed, financial counseling is mandatory. That's my idea of reform-then those that truly needed coverage could still be covered but the billions of dollars a year wasted on unnecessary expenses would be saved. People would start to put healthcare as a priority in their life and not rely on the goverment to take care of it so they can have luxuries in life-luxuries are NOT a right.

[RossValoryRocks]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

[RossValoryRocks]

The elderly don't work, yet still receive Medicare. What's the difference?

They have paid into the system for years...and yet it is STILL not enough...an average person pays approximately $100K into Medicare and yet recieives approximately $300K in benefits over their life.

[Rockindeano]

OK so we're really right back where we started...you want everyone to have healthcare regardless of what they do to destroy their own health. You're not sure how it will be paid for but that really doesn't matter because it's a "right" and those things that are "rights" should magically be paid for....and it's also everyone's "right" to choose to not work and just play the victim card-or to work in a low paying job with no ambition to ever work toward a better life-that better life should just be handed to them. And they should have the "right" to the same quality of medical care and the same services as those who pay for the healthcare....

Feeble attempt to muddy up the waters.

I stand by my beliefs. You make it sound like this "problem" can't be overcome. There are a helluva lot worse programs in Govt than HC. Cut the shit programs out, fund the HC account and be happy.

You're right, it can be overcome-but increasing the amount of money spent on HC coverage is NOT the answer. Cutting what we pay for is the answer. Cover ONLY the bare minimum for those with goverment healthcare....for example (and for obvious reasons these examples will mostly be women's health related) don't cover epidurals for labor, don't cover ultrasounds in the absence of complications, don't cover non-lifethreatening medications, don't cover elective lab tests, limit the number of pregnancies covered for each person. Put conditions on coverage-lifestyle changes are mandatory, co-pays are required-income and assets must be disclosed, financial counseling is mandatory. That's my idea of reform-then those that truly needed coverage could still be covered but the billions of dollars a year wasted on unnecessary expenses would be saved. People would start to put healthcare as a priority in their life and not rely on the goverment to take care of it so they can have luxuries in life-luxuries are NOT a right.

I am on board with most of this. Good job here.

[Angel]

I am on board with most of this. Good job here.

HOLY SHIT! I wondered why it's so cold outside.....HELL JUST FROZE OVER!!!!

[Rockindeano]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

You should email Sean and Glenn and ask them for sure if the spin of "unconstitutional" will fly. It won't. Don't you think the White House did it's homework before putting forth this bill? It IS constitutional. Some yahoo neocon federal judge from Buttfuck Virginia will not derail this law, as much as you want it to.

As for you having to pay for your insurance if you don't have any is somewhat sticky to me. I don't like it actually. I can see what he wants out of it though. By paying for insurance, if you ever get sick, you will have contributed to the cause...I think what Obama is trying to say here is that no one person goes through life unscathed and also he saying that he wants a one for all and all for one attitude on this law, hence the "everyone pays for insurance."

Dude, it's 505P. Get your ass to Heinz and get those shirts! They come out for warmups at 700P, Pittsburgh time.

[Rockindeano]

I am on board with most of this. Good job here.

HOLY SHIT! I wondered why it's so cold outside.....HELL JUST FROZE OVER!!!!

I absolutely agree with and concur that luxury surgeries should never be covered. The same thing with amenities.

[RossValoryRocks]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

You should email Sean and Glenn and ask them for sure if the spin of "unconstitutional" will fly. It won't. Don't you think the White House did it's homework before putting forth this bill? It IS constitutional. Some yahoo neocon federal judge from Buttfuck Virginia will not derail this law, as much as you want it to.

As for you having to pay for your insurance if you don't have any is somewhat sticky to me. I don't like it actually. I can see what he wants out of it though. By paying for insurance, if you ever get sick, you will have contributed to the cause...I think what Obama is trying to say here is that no one person goes through life unscathed and also he saying that he wants a one for all and all for one attitude on this law, hence the "everyone pays for insurance."

Dude, it's 505P. Get your ass to Heinz and get those shirts! They come out for warmups at 700P, Pittsburgh time.

I am leaving in in 20 minutes...taking the T downtown...I got your shirts already...relax!

A lot of times people do their "homework" and it is STILL wrong...the law is unconstitutional...period...and will be found as such by the SCOTUS.

I don't listen to nor watch Beck or Hannity...but nice try Keith Olbermann.

[Rockindeano]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

You should email Sean and Glenn and ask them for sure if the spin of "unconstitutional" will fly. It won't. Don't you think the White House did it's homework before putting forth this bill? It IS constitutional. Some yahoo neocon federal judge from Buttfuck Virginia will not derail this law, as much as you want it to.

As for you having to pay for your insurance if you don't have any is somewhat sticky to me. I don't like it actually. I can see what he wants out of it though. By paying for insurance, if you ever get sick, you will have contributed to the cause...I think what Obama is trying to say here is that no one person goes through life unscathed and also he saying that he wants a one for all and all for one attitude on this law, hence the "everyone pays for insurance."

Dude, it's 505P. Get your ass to Heinz and get those shirts! They come out for warmups at 700P, Pittsburgh time.

I am leaving in in 20 minutes...taking the T downtown...I got your shirts already...relax!

A lot of times people do their "homework" and it is STILL wrong...the law is unconstitutional...period...and will be found as such by the SCOTUS.

I don't listen to nor watch Beck or Hannity...but nice try Keith Olbermann.

LOL, I am flattered to be referred to as Olberman. That guy is a genius...he would crush any of the Foxtards in a debate, as would Maddow. The only problem with Maddow is that guy is pretty ugly.

The SCOTUS will not side with unconstitutional. Wanna bet 500 bucks on this?

[RossValoryRocks]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

You should email Sean and Glenn and ask them for sure if the spin of "unconstitutional" will fly. It won't. Don't you think the White House did it's homework before putting forth this bill? It IS constitutional. Some yahoo neocon federal judge from Buttfuck Virginia will not derail this law, as much as you want it to.

As for you having to pay for your insurance if you don't have any is somewhat sticky to me. I don't like it actually. I can see what he wants out of it though. By paying for insurance, if you ever get sick, you will have contributed to the cause...I think what Obama is trying to say here is that no one person goes through life unscathed and also he saying that he wants a one for all and all for one attitude on this law, hence the "everyone pays for insurance."

Dude, it's 505P. Get your ass to Heinz and get those shirts! They come out for warmups at 700P, Pittsburgh time.

I am leaving in in 20 minutes...taking the T downtown...I got your shirts already...relax!

A lot of times people do their "homework" and it is STILL wrong...the law is unconstitutional...period...and will be found as such by the SCOTUS.

I don't listen to nor watch Beck or Hannity...but nice try Keith Olbermann.

LOL, I am flattered to be referred to as Olberman. That guy is a genius...he would crush any of the Foxtards in a debate, as would Maddow. The only problem with Maddow is that guy is pretty ugly.

The SCOTUS will not side with unconstitutional. Wanna bet 500 bucks on this?

LOL...you and your betting...I would bet you, but I know right now you don't have $500!

The Maddow comment is making me ROFLMAO!

[donnaplease]

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but upon further thought, until I see HOW this discussion will be reimbursed I think it's just more bullshit government vocal gymnastics. Insurance companies don't generally pay for individual things.

My point is this - that 'discussion' does not equate to a 'death panel'. It's just a discussion. There is no link to how that discussion is paid for and a panel deciding who gets a treatment or not. It makes no logical sense AT ALL.

Then you go on to 'what ifs' and all that. Well, what if some panel starts deciding who gets Social Security benefits? Medicare benefits. What if hospitals stop admitting anybody, except middle aged white men, and Jedi Knights? I mean, come on, you can take this to so many extremes it's ridiculous.

When some type of 'death panel' talk actually starts to seriously happen in congress, then you will have point. Until then, you are just spreading a myth that has NO basis in reality. Don't you see that?

We can argue about the term 'death panel' all night long, but let's not forget the words of our beloved president, who told a woman on TV for all the world to see that her mother (a woman who although quite elderly still had a pretty decent quality of life) that perhaps it wasn't fiscally responsible to have a life saving procedure, and instead to 'take a pill'. This is also from a president who believes that young children should be taught sex ed in schools and that wealth redistribution is a good thing. So no, I don't trust him to do what's right by way of our elderly.

NONE of that has anything to do with 'death panels'. You are basicaly saying you believe there will be a 'death panel' because you don't trust Obama...even though you should know Obama does not make the laws, and even though he has never introduced such a thing to be passed by congress. I can now see that it is simply political bias on your part.

I agree that having a discussion about advance directives is a good thing

Then you should agree with the bill as passed. Instead, you are so caught up in the propaganda surrounding it that you don't.

and I've spent a fair portion of my career doing just that. Example: an 85 year old woman is under the care of the facility that I work at. She suffered breast cancer a few years ago. She had a fall a few months ago and broke her shoulder and her neck. A few weeks after that she had a massive stroke and is now paralyzed on her left side and requires a feeding tube. She has a full code status, meaning if she would stroke again or have a heart attack, we would have to do CPR. IDK if we could even do that with the cervical collar she has to wear (forever) without further damaging her neck fracture, which could potentially kill her in itself. This is a woman who should be strongly counseled about the choice of full code vs DNR status. You think Medicare would pay me to have that discussion?

As has been stated in this thread - Yes, the new Health Care bill would pay for that discussion with her on how to handle her life if she has another heart attack or stroke.

What you fail to absorb (or are just choosing to ignore) is that we didn't need a HC bill to do this. I've been doing it for the past 10 years. So for the president (or Congress) to stick their nose into it is very telling. But whatever dude.

[Rockindeano]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

You should email Sean and Glenn and ask them for sure if the spin of "unconstitutional" will fly. It won't. Don't you think the White House did it's homework before putting forth this bill? It IS constitutional. Some yahoo neocon federal judge from Buttfuck Virginia will not derail this law, as much as you want it to.

As for you having to pay for your insurance if you don't have any is somewhat sticky to me. I don't like it actually. I can see what he wants out of it though. By paying for insurance, if you ever get sick, you will have contributed to the cause...I think what Obama is trying to say here is that no one person goes through life unscathed and also he saying that he wants a one for all and all for one attitude on this law, hence the "everyone pays for insurance."

Dude, it's 505P. Get your ass to Heinz and get those shirts! They come out for warmups at 700P, Pittsburgh time.

I am leaving in in 20 minutes...taking the T downtown...I got your shirts already...relax!

A lot of times people do their "homework" and it is STILL wrong...the law is unconstitutional...period...and will be found as such by the SCOTUS.

I don't listen to nor watch Beck or Hannity...but nice try Keith Olbermann.

LOL, I am flattered to be referred to as Olberman. That guy is a genius...he would crush any of the Foxtards in a debate, as would Maddow. The only problem with Maddow is that guy is pretty ugly.

The SCOTUS will not side with unconstitutional. Wanna bet 500 bucks on this?

LOL...you and your betting...I would bet you, but I know right now you don't have $500!

The Maddow comment is making me ROFLMAO!

I was proved correct to within 4 electoral college votes in Obama v McCain was I not? You have to admit I nailed that one dude, and we had a monster wager on that one.

[RossValoryRocks]

I was proved correct to within 4 electoral college votes in Obama v McCain was I not? You have to admit I nailed that one dude, and we had a monster wager on that one.

Yeah you nailed it...I will give you that...but you took a step back in 2010 when you completely BLEW the call on the House, and the Senate sort of...you did say the Republicans wouldn't more than 2 seats or something along those lines in the Senate...and in September said that the Republicans wouldn't take the house.

Swing and a miss there.

[Rockindeano]

I am leaving in in 20 minutes...taking the T downtown...I got your shirts already...relax!

Curious, you take the blue, red or brown line? What station do you board from? I have the map out on the screen.

Also, is the Igloo still standing or was she raized?

[Rockindeano]

I was proved correct to within 4 electoral college votes in Obama v McCain was I not? You have to admit I nailed that one dude, and we had a monster wager on that one.

Yeah you nailed it...I will give you that...but you took a step back in 2010 when you completely BLEW the call on the House, and the Senate sort of...you did say the Republicans wouldn't more than 2 seats or something along those lines in the Senate...and in September said that the Republicans wouldn't take the house.

Swing and a miss there.

I was hoping more than thinking....besides, my specialty is electoral politics. I thrive on that shit. Right now, I am having difficulty finding a map for success for Obama in 2012. Florida and Pennsylvania are my two trouble states. Having said that, the road to the WH is even more troubling for the GOP.

[RossValoryRocks]

I am leaving in in 20 minutes...taking the T downtown...I got your shirts already...relax!

Curious, you take the blue, red or brown line? What station do you board from? I have the map out on the screen.

Also, is the Igloo still standing or was she raized?

Last post gotta fly...The igloo is still there...for now...

I take the train from the Library station...So it's the Blue line...6:41 train to Washinton Juction....Ciao! Look for me on TV...I got seats 3 rows up!

[donnaplease]

Having said that, the road to the WH is even more troubling for the GOP.

Can't disagree with this. If we continue to seriously consider Sarah Palin for a presidential nod we're in even more trouble yet. She's a powerhouse in today's society but she's not presidential material, IMO. That said, in many aspects she's still more qualified than who we have now. I would support her in another veep role perhaps, though, because I think she represents a very important demographic and I can relate to her in many ways.

I feel myself reverting to my earlier years (love me some Ross Perot!) and hoping that Donald Trump seriously enters the fray. I think we need someone more business-savvy to help get us back on track. Trump would approach the WH as a business and would find the best people for the job regardless of political stance, IMO. I could support Mark Warner (gasp! A Democrat!!! ) in that vein as well because I think he was good for Virginia a few years ago. Obama's "community organizer" traits are more divisive than anything on a national scale, because he must represent ALL Americans, not just those whose interests match his own. We're not all inner-city Chicagoans (Chicagans, Chicagoites...???), some of us are just simple, country folk.

[conversationpc]

Having said that, the road to the WH is even more troubling for the GOP.

Can't disagree with this. If we continue to seriously consider Sarah Palin for a presidential nod we're in even more trouble yet. She's a powerhouse in today's society but she's not presidential material, IMO. That said, in many aspects she's still more qualified than who we have now. I would support her in another veep role perhaps, though, because I think she represents a very important demographic and I can relate to her in many ways.

I feel myself reverting to my earlier years (love me some Ross Perot!) and hoping that Donald Trump seriously enters the fray. I think we need someone more business-savvy to help get us back on track. Trump would approach the WH as a business and would find the best people for the job regardless of political stance, IMO. I could support Mark Warner (gasp! A Democrat!!! ) in that vein as well because I think he was good for Virginia a few years ago. Obama's "community organizer" traits are more divisive than anything on a national scale, because he must represent ALL Americans, not just those whose interests match his own. We're not all inner-city Chicagoans (Chicagans, Chicagoites...???), some of us are just simple, country folk.

If the economy gets worse or something big happens that Obama and the Democrats take the blame for, Palin will have a shot. However, as things stand now, I don't think she does have a shot and that's just fine with me. She's turned out to be just another self-interested politician, in my opinion. I don't think she's nearly as dumb as everyone makes her out to be and, unfortunately, that makes her all the more dangerous.

[conversationpc]

I was hoping more than thinking....besides, my specialty is electoral politics. I thrive on that shit. Right now, I am having difficulty finding a map for success for Obama in 2012. Florida and Pennsylvania are my two trouble states. Having said that, the road to the WH is even more troubling for the GOP.

I can't comment on those two states but I can tell you that at least my home state of Indiana will more than likely not vote for him again, especially if Mitch Daniels decides to run. Daniels has the support of even a large percentage of Democrats here in Indiana and he would certainly win the state with a vast majority in a matchup with Obama if he were lucky enough to get the Republican nomination. Regardless, I can't imagine the voters of Indiana making the same mistake twice.

[Rockindeano]

I was hoping more than thinking....besides, my specialty is electoral politics. I thrive on that shit. Right now, I am having difficulty finding a map for success for Obama in 2012. Florida and Pennsylvania are my two trouble states. Having said that, the road to the WH is even more troubling for the GOP.

I can't comment on those two states but I can tell you that at least my home state of Indiana will more than likely not vote for him again, especially if Mitch Daniels decides to run. Daniels has the support of even a large percentage of Democrats here in Indiana and he would certainly win the state with a vast majority in a matchup with Obama if he were lucky enough to get the Republican nomination. Regardless, I can't imagine the voters of Indiana making the same mistake twice.

Indiana never popped up on my road to victory. I wrote that off the first day. it was because of the ineptitude of George W Bush that Indiana went for Obama. Keep Indiana red, who gives a shit ABOUT Indiana?

[Monker]

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but upon further thought, until I see HOW this discussion will be reimbursed I think it's just more bullshit government vocal gymnastics. Insurance companies don't generally pay for individual things.

My point is this - that 'discussion' does not equate to a 'death panel'. It's just a discussion. There is no link to how that discussion is paid for and a panel deciding who gets a treatment or not. It makes no logical sense AT ALL.

Then you go on to 'what ifs' and all that. Well, what if some panel starts deciding who gets Social Security benefits? Medicare benefits. What if hospitals stop admitting anybody, except middle aged white men, and Jedi Knights? I mean, come on, you can take this to so many extremes it's ridiculous.

When some type of 'death panel' talk actually starts to seriously happen in congress, then you will have point. Until then, you are just spreading a myth that has NO basis in reality. Don't you see that?

We can argue about the term 'death panel' all night long, but let's not forget the words of our beloved president, who told a woman on TV for all the world to see that her mother (a woman who although quite elderly still had a pretty decent quality of life) that perhaps it wasn't fiscally responsible to have a life saving procedure, and instead to 'take a pill'. This is also from a president who believes that young children should be taught sex ed in schools and that wealth redistribution is a good thing. So no, I don't trust him to do what's right by way of our elderly.

NONE of that has anything to do with 'death panels'. You are basicaly saying you believe there will be a 'death panel' because you don't trust Obama...even though you should know Obama does not make the laws, and even though he has never introduced such a thing to be passed by congress. I can now see that it is simply political bias on your part.

I agree that having a discussion about advance directives is a good thing

Then you should agree with the bill as passed. Instead, you are so caught up in the propaganda surrounding it that you don't.

and I've spent a fair portion of my career doing just that. Example: an 85 year old woman is under the care of the facility that I work at. She suffered breast cancer a few years ago. She had a fall a few months ago and broke her shoulder and her neck. A few weeks after that she had a massive stroke and is now paralyzed on her left side and requires a feeding tube. She has a full code status, meaning if she would stroke again or have a heart attack, we would have to do CPR. IDK if we could even do that with the cervical collar she has to wear (forever) without further damaging her neck fracture, which could potentially kill her in itself. This is a woman who should be strongly counseled about the choice of full code vs DNR status. You think Medicare would pay me to have that discussion?

As has been stated in this thread - Yes, the new Health Care bill would pay for that discussion with her on how to handle her life if she has another heart attack or stroke.

What you fail to absorb (or are just choosing to ignore) is that we didn't need a HC bill to do this. I've been doing it for the past 10 years. So for the president (or Congress) to stick their nose into it is very telling. But whatever dude.

And, what you are failing to absorb, or are just choosing to ignore, is all the bill is doing is paying for the discussion. So, it will happen more often. That is something YOU SHOULD BE IN FAVOR of. And, you fail to admit that Republicans turned this discussion into political scare-tactics by calling it a 'death panel'...a total lie, and instead you try to blame Obama for it. Cut through the bullshit and see what really happened.

[Monker]

It is in my view, an absolute "right" to have health care. I don't consider it to be a luxury. This is something that I would insist on accomplishing in my term. When we have people dying every day in this country, because they simply do not have health insurance, that to me is unacceptable.

Where do you get health care is a right?

You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...those are natural rights...where do you find any right to health care in our founding documents?

Just because something is NOT in the God damned Constitution does not mean it cannot exist. This is MY belief, not yours. I am ENTITLED to my own beliefs.

And if you want to get sticky with this, why should a person be allowed to die just because he or she possesses no health insurance? Doesn't he or she have the right to life?

Stu, our Constitution is a great document, however, it was written too long ago to always be relevant, with the advent of automation and progress.

Ahhh a belief...well, you are entitled of course...but Healthcare isn't a right...and if you want to get sticky, the law, as it is written is unconstitutional, as you will see very soon via the Supreme Court...have the Constitution amended to say something like, "Healthcare shall be provided by the federal government for every citizen of the United States and shall be provided via statute as enacted by Congress".

Now lets address the "right to life" bit...doesn't a baby have a right to life? Roe v. Wade says it doesn't...because it is the right of a person to control his or her own body...so now...the Government is going to MANDATE that I get insurance...but isn't it MY right to do with my body as I choose? So why should I have to pay for insurance if I do not want to, it's my body and if I can't pay then I die...my decision to do so.

If you knew anything about insurance, you would know that the more people who are part of a group plan, the cheaper the cost of insurance is for each person. THAT is the real reason why everybody is required to have health insurance.