President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[RedWingFan]

When will any of you understand that we need to take care of each other, through any and all means.

When do we insist that we take care of ourselves? Why is HC more important than food and rent. Why not entitle everyone to that also?

Your argument is immoral at the very root Dean. You're advocating stealing others property to give it to someone else.

[Angel]

Dave and Stu, there is no sense in arguing with you. Canadians are not arriving here in droves as you two numbfucks suggest. This has always been bullshit. Like I posted the other day, a recent Ottawa sun Poll found that 88% of Canucks are "verey happy" with the health insurance provided to them via the Canadian government.

I have always brought this argument to you and not ONE of you can properly refute it.

If Canada can cover ALL of it's citizen's, it will always , always be better than the United States. You people have blinders on, and can't see the forest for the trees. When will any of you understand that we need to take care of each other, through any and all means. It just solidifies the comment I always make regarding the GOP....selfish selfish and more selfish.

Seriously, Dean, why don't you move back to Canada? You hate the United States, Canada can provide everything you want so move back there.

[conversationpc]

Dave and Stu, there is no sense in arguing with you.

Interpretation = I cannot intelligently answer you.

Canadians are not arriving here in droves as you two numbfucks suggest. This has always been bullshit. Like I posted the other day, a recent Ottawa sun Poll found that 88% of Canucks are "verey happy" with the health insurance provided to them via the Canadian government.

So the Canadians that all the doctors were seeing in the region I lived in were just Americans pretending to be Canadian, huh? I suppose all those Canadian license plates were fake, too, huh?

[Rockindeano]

And if I may chime in here, how can someone skip out on a hospital bill if everyone has insurance? A copay, yeah, but hospitals should realize a huge increase in income from not having bills skipped out on.

Not necessarily, Rick. When the government pays the bill, they decide how much they will pay and often times, the amount they will pay is less than what it costs to provide the care. This is one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive to the rest of us-we have to pick up the difference.

Thanks for setting up the ball on a tee for me, Natty.

If everyone had insurance, there would be NO skipping out on anything! Hell, institute a National HC policy where everyone is covered, yet they have to pay a co pay...I am sure most would go for that....and you would never have people skipping out, hence there wouldn't have to be others picking up the tab. Get it?

[Rockindeano]

Dave and Stu, there is no sense in arguing with you.

Interpretation = I cannot intelligently answer you.

Canadians are not arriving here in droves as you two numbfucks suggest. This has always been bullshit. Like I posted the other day, a recent Ottawa sun Poll found that 88% of Canucks are "verey happy" with the health insurance provided to them via the Canadian government.

So the Canadians that all the doctors were seeing in the region I lived in were just Americans pretending to be Canadian, huh? I suppose all those Canadian license plates were fake, too, huh?

You're picking out exceptions to the rule Dave. That's like me correctly stating that shitloads of Americans not only go north across the border on chartered busses to buy prescriptuion drugs, but they also mail order drugs from Canada....and oh yeah, the drugs up there are not inferior to thos down here.

Your turn. This is too easy.

[RedWingFan]

I don't see private enterprise carrying the mail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqUmuZnmf7A

Out of context and you know it.

What Obama said was correct. The USPS IS having problems, but I can guarantee you that neither UPS or Fed Ex can deliver a stamped envelope from Seattle to Tampa for 44 cents. When I see a private enterprise do this, I will suck a big cock. Currently, UPS and Fed Ex charge 15 bucks for comparable service.

So the USPS has problems? They can be fixed...it's still a great and worthy Gov't service.

No. You included delivering mail as something that they do AND turning a profit. Mass transit is a giant moneypit as well. (at least it is here)

The Gov't does things that private enterprise cannot do at a profit. I don't see private enterprise paying for new stretches or highway? I don't see private enterprise carrying the mail, or providing mass transit, Amtrak, or building airports? See, there are SOME things that the private sector cannot do, and will not do, and the Federal Gov't then steps in and provides a service.

[conversationpc]

You're picking out exceptions to the rule Dave. That's like me correctly stating that shitloads of Americans not only go north across the border on chartered busses to buy prescriptuion drugs, but they also mail order drugs from Canada....and oh yeah, the drugs up there are not inferior to thos down here.

Your turn. This is too easy.

I appreciate you changing the subject to something else the imperial federal government has made far more expensive to obtain, i.e. prescription drugs.

[RossValoryRocks]

Dave and Stu, there is no sense in arguing with you. Canadians are not arriving here in droves as you two numbfucks suggest. This has always been bullshit. Like I posted the other day, a recent Ottawa sun Poll found that 88% of Canucks are "verey happy" with the health insurance provided to them via the Canadian government.

I have always brought this argument to you and not ONE of you can properly refute it.

If Canada can cover ALL of it's citizen's, it will always , always be better than the United States. You people have blinders on, and can't see the forest for the trees. When will any of you understand that we need to take care of each other, through any and all means. It just solidifies the comment I always make regarding the GOP....selfish selfish and more selfish.

Yeah...I really selfish person.

Oh and as for Canadians liking thier healthcare: http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_c ... hcare.html

See how well it works? she had to SUE the government to get care.

Oh the article is written by a Canadian too.

Now how many time do I have to say this before you and the rest of libs here get it?

I will put it in BIG BOLD letters...maybe you will read it and understand it this time: I AGREE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE US is a MESS and SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIX IT, but this LAW ISN'T GOING TO FIX IT, it will MAKE THE MESS WORSE!!!

But it's ok...stay in your world of emotion over logic and fact. "If it feels good do it" should be the official motto of the liberals in this country, no matter the cost or what it will do to the Country.

[Angel]

And if I may chime in here, how can someone skip out on a hospital bill if everyone has insurance? A copay, yeah, but hospitals should realize a huge increase in income from not having bills skipped out on.

Not necessarily, Rick. When the government pays the bill, they decide how much they will pay and often times, the amount they will pay is less than what it costs to provide the care. This is one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive to the rest of us-we have to pick up the difference.

Thanks for setting up the ball on a tee for me, Natty.

If everyone had insurance, there would be NO skipping out on anything! Hell, institute a National HC policy where everyone is covered, yet they have to pay a co pay...I am sure most would go for that....and you would never have people skipping out, hence there wouldn't have to be others picking up the tab. Get it?

But the point you're missing is that then the government has even more control over how much will be paid for the service. Even MORE people are covered by government sponsored programs so there are not as many people to pick up the slack.

[Rockindeano]

When will any of you understand that we need to take care of each other, through any and all means.

When do we insist that we take care of ourselves? Why is HC more important than food and rent. Why not entitle everyone to that also?

Your argument is immoral at the very root Dean. You're advocating stealing others property to give it to someone else.

Hoers shit RWF. I am all for "no work, no food," but HC is a moral obligation. Not every person is born healthy or goes through life perfectly healthy. I seriously do not think that taking care of our citizens is socialism. My God, what are you people suggesting here? Is this the USA that you want? Fractured, divided, weakened? Is it really worth it to be so fucking selfish? America's strengths are obvious. And selfishness is not one of them.

[Angel]

You're picking out exceptions to the rule Dave. That's like me correctly stating that shitloads of Americans not only go north across the border on chartered busses to buy prescriptuion drugs, but they also mail order drugs from Canada....and oh yeah, the drugs up there are not inferior to thos down here.

Your turn. This is too easy.

I appreciate you changing the subject to something else the imperial federal government has made far more expensive to obtain, i.e. prescription drugs.

Exactly! And we pay for all the research, FDA approval, etc, that's why meds are more expensive here...

[Rick]

And if I may chime in here, how can someone skip out on a hospital bill if everyone has insurance? A copay, yeah, but hospitals should realize a huge increase in income from not having bills skipped out on.

Not necessarily, Rick. When the government pays the bill, they decide how much they will pay and often times, the amount they will pay is less than what it costs to provide the care. This is one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive to the rest of us-we have to pick up the difference.

But isn't the cost elevated because people don't pay? That should regulate itself if all bills are paid, or is that different?

[Rockindeano]

Dave and Stu, there is no sense in arguing with you. Canadians are not arriving here in droves as you two numbfucks suggest. This has always been bullshit. Like I posted the other day, a recent Ottawa sun Poll found that 88% of Canucks are "verey happy" with the health insurance provided to them via the Canadian government.

I have always brought this argument to you and not ONE of you can properly refute it.

If Canada can cover ALL of it's citizen's, it will always , always be better than the United States. You people have blinders on, and can't see the forest for the trees. When will any of you understand that we need to take care of each other, through any and all means. It just solidifies the comment I always make regarding the GOP....selfish selfish and more selfish.

Seriously, Dean, why don't you move back to Canada? You hate the United States, Canada can provide everything you want so move back there.

Fuck you. I hate this country so much I volunteerd and fought for it in war. Don't tell me I hate this country. Is it wrong to levy criticism and question authority?
I don't see why liking Canada for obvious reasons translates into hartred for the United States. That one confuses me.

[Angel]

Hoers shit RWF. I am all for "no work, no food," but HC is a moral obligation. Not every person is born healthy or goes through life perfectly healthy. I seriously do not think that taking care of our citizens is socialism. My God, what are you people suggesting here? Is this the USA that you want? Fractured, divided, weakened? Is it really worth it to be so fucking selfish? America's strengths are obvious. And selfishness is not one of them.

Is that "horse shit" or "whore's shit?" I'm not sure what you're saying, but then again, it's a very rare occasion when you do actually make sense.

[RossValoryRocks]

So the USPS has problems? They can be fixed...it's still a great and worthy Gov't service.

The problem isn't they don't get packages and letters where they need to go...the problem is that when they first instituted the USPS it cost 5 cents to send a letter...following inflation a letter should run about $3.50 to send these days, add competition from email and the like and the USPS has no chance to compete, without taking tax monies when it was designed to be self sufficient.

[RossValoryRocks]

Dave and Stu, there is no sense in arguing with you. Canadians are not arriving here in droves as you two numbfucks suggest. This has always been bullshit. Like I posted the other day, a recent Ottawa sun Poll found that 88% of Canucks are "verey happy" with the health insurance provided to them via the Canadian government.

I have always brought this argument to you and not ONE of you can properly refute it.

If Canada can cover ALL of it's citizen's, it will always , always be better than the United States. You people have blinders on, and can't see the forest for the trees. When will any of you understand that we need to take care of each other, through any and all means. It just solidifies the comment I always make regarding the GOP....selfish selfish and more selfish.

Seriously, Dean, why don't you move back to Canada? You hate the United States, Canada can provide everything you want so move back there.

Fuck you. I hate this country so much I volunteerd and fought for it in war. Don't tell me I hate this country. Is it wrong to levy criticism and question authority?
I don't see why liking Canada for obvious reasons translates into hartred for the United States. That one confuses me.

I agree...Dean loves the US...and wants only the best...the problem is how we define the "best" portion and then how we get there.

Questioning his patriotism is not right, and shouldn't be levied at ANY veteran (other than the dickhead who turned all the shit over to Wikileaks, he need to be shot!)

[Rockindeano]

I don't see private enterprise carrying the mail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqUmuZnmf7A

Out of context and you know it.

What Obama said was correct. The USPS IS having problems, but I can guarantee you that neither UPS or Fed Ex can deliver a stamped envelope from Seattle to Tampa for 44 cents. When I see a private enterprise do this, I will suck a big cock. Currently, UPS and Fed Ex charge 15 bucks for comparable service.

So the USPS has problems? They can be fixed...it's still a great and worthy Gov't service.

No. You included delivering mail as something that they do AND turning a profit. Mass transit is a giant moneypit as well. (at least it is here)

The Gov't does things that private enterprise cannot do at a profit. I don't see private enterprise paying for new stretches or highway? I don't see private enterprise carrying the mail, or providing mass transit, Amtrak, or building airports? See, there are SOME things that the private sector cannot do, and will not do, and the Federal Gov't then steps in and provides a service.

RWF, I am simply making a point that somethings are just not, and never will be profitable. I have extensive experience in transportation and transportation politics/government. I KNOW Mass Transit is a money pit, but it provides an invaluable service. Amtrak costs a billion dollars a year and they move 26 million riders, being the third biggest carrier in the country behind United A/L and AA. How many air passengers hopped trains to get home from the Northeast last week during the blizzard? A shit ton, that' how many. The airlines really don't turn a profit either. If the Federal Gov't didn't provide airports and traffic controllers, not ONE airline could be run by a private company and turn a profit. Oh, and also, last time I checked, not ONE highway in the USA makes money. is it useful? You bet.

[Angel]

Fuck you. I hate this country so much I volunteerd and fought for it in war. Don't tell me I hate this country. Is it wrong to levy criticism and question authority?
I don't see why liking Canada for obvious reasons translates into hartred for the United States. That one confuses me.

Thank you for your service. But wasn't it you that said this just two days ago??

I am embarrassed to call America home. We should look up at the nation above us on the map and take a hint, a clue as to what the fuck to do with our citizens.

If you haven't noticed lately, we are circling the drain, rapidly I might add. What we are doing here is NOT working.

If the Canadian system is what you feel is best for you then why don't you go back? They have the best quality healthcare, everyone is covered-that seems to be exactly what you want. You should go after what you want in life....or would you like me to come pick you up, pack up your things and drive you there?

[Rockindeano]

You're picking out exceptions to the rule Dave. That's like me correctly stating that shitloads of Americans not only go north across the border on chartered busses to buy prescriptuion drugs, but they also mail order drugs from Canada....and oh yeah, the drugs up there are not inferior to thos down here.

Your turn. This is too easy.

I appreciate you changing the subject to something else the imperial federal government has made far more expensive to obtain, i.e. prescription drugs.

Just how in the Hell has the Govt made prescription drugs too expensive? needless inspections of drugs made in Canada. Gee, guess who lobbies for this kind of shit? Drug companies. Do your homework, Dave. Drug companies want to jack the prices up sky high...duh. Why do you think you can buy the SAME drug in Vancouver for 75% cheaper than you can in Denver?

[RossValoryRocks]

Here everyone:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_c ... hcare.html

Again...a Canadian doctor...4 month waits for radiation treatments, days (not DAY, DAYS plural) long waits in the ER, PET and CAT scan machines off limits to patient care because they are being used for animal research???

DO YOU WANT THIS?

[Rockindeano]

Fuck you. I hate this country so much I volunteerd and fought for it in war. Don't tell me I hate this country. Is it wrong to levy criticism and question authority?
I don't see why liking Canada for obvious reasons translates into hartred for the United States. That one confuses me.

Thank you for your service. But wasn't it you that said this just two days ago??

I am embarrassed to call America home. We should look up at the nation above us on the map and take a hint, a clue as to what the fuck to do with our citizens.

If you haven't noticed lately, we are circling the drain, rapidly I might add. What we are doing here is NOT working.

If the Canadian system is what you feel is best for you then why don't you go back? They have the best quality healthcare, everyone is covered-that seems to be exactly what you want. You should go after what you want in life....or would you like me to come pick you up, pack up your things and drive you there?

You can fly down here an d get me. I'll give you a quick rear poke for your labour.

[S2M]

I was going to head to bed, but peeked in this thread and have to comment.

Anybody with money thinks that EVERYBODY who doesn't have money is a leeching non-contributor. I would say that 75% of the rich were BORN into it. Most never had to EARN it. So for one of these conceited fucks to claim that people of lesser means need to earn everything themselves, or don't deserve help is ludicrous. Now, on the contrary, I don't really believe in blanket socialism - but what I DO believe in is that every LEGAL citizen of this country get TWO things free from the govt. : Healthcare, and education. Although I think that admission should be competitve. If you make the grades, education is FREE. This only helps the country in the long run, and the individual...an individual, mind you, that won't be a burden on the system.

And to the small % of people who have made their 'fortune' by hard work, and sweat....please don't get that holier than thou attitude that you are better than Joe the Plumber, or Fred the Barber, or Suzy the Housekeeper.

Also, people are up in arms about paying for other people's healthcare....but aren't you already paying for people's Social security? A system that will be bankrupt by the time YOU need to collect YOURS.....just saying.

[RossValoryRocks]

Why do you think you can buy the SAME drug in Vancouver for 75% cheaper than you can in Denver?

Because the Canadian government set the prices on prescription drugs.

Dean you just don't know what you are talking about.

Go do some research...then get back to us.

[RedWingFan]

Oh, and also, last time I checked, not ONE highway in the USA makes money. is it useful? You bet.

You're exactly right Dean, they don't make money. But that is one of the Constitional uses for taxation. Paying for someones health care, rent, tatoo removal (there in California)... all of that IS NOT. The government should stick to its Constitutional limitations and the rest will take care of itself. It worked for the first 150 years.

When it continues to do all this that doesn't make money, that's how you get owned by China.

[Rockindeano]

Here everyone:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_c ... hcare.html

Again...a Canadian doctor...4 month waits for radiation treatments, days (not DAY, DAYS plural) long waits in the ER, PET and CAT scan machines off limits to patient care because they are being used for animal research???

DO YOU WANT THIS?

I don't know. let's see, wait for 2 days for a CAT scan, or never get one at all. Real easy choice.

[RossValoryRocks]

I was going to head to bed, but peeked in this thread and have to comment.

Anybody with money thinks that EVERYBODY who doesn't have money is a leeching non-contributor. I would say that 75% of the rich were BORN into it. Most never had to EARN it. So for one of these conceited fucks to claim that people of lesser means need to earn everything themselves, or don't deserve help is ludicrous. Now, on the contrary, I don't really believe in blanket socialism - but what I DO believe in is that every LEGAL citizen of this country get TWO things free from the govt. : Healthcare, and education. Although I think that admission should be competitve. If you make the grades, education is FREE. This only helps the country in the long run, and the individual...an individual, mind you, that won't be a burden on the system.

And to the small % of people who have made their 'fortune' by hard work, and sweat....please don't get that holier than thou attitude that you are better than Joe the Plumber, or Fred the Barber, or Suzy the Housekeeper.

Also, people are up in arms about paying for other people's healthcare....but aren't you already paying for people's Social security? A system that will be bankrupt by the time YOU need to collect YOURS.....just saying.

You know why the government went after Enrico Ponzi and Bernie Madoff right? Because Ponzi schemes CANNOT function in the long term...because at some point you cannot find enough investors to maintain the returns...however Social Security IS a ponzi scheme...and we ARE RUNNING OUT OF INVESTORS...

[Rockindeano]

Why do you think you can buy the SAME drug in Vancouver for 75% cheaper than you can in Denver?

Because the Canadian government set the prices on prescription drugs.

Dean you just don't know what you are talking about.

Go do some research...then get back to us.

YOU are the one who is full of shit. You just spew out certain favourable articles you find. hell, I can go find liberal articles and post them here, and call it gospel too. Does that make it right?

I have a fundamental disagreement with you, and you cannot stand the fact that I am giving you fits on this.

[Angel]

You're picking out exceptions to the rule Dave. That's like me correctly stating that shitloads of Americans not only go north across the border on chartered busses to buy prescriptuion drugs, but they also mail order drugs from Canada....and oh yeah, the drugs up there are not inferior to thos down here.

Your turn. This is too easy.

I appreciate you changing the subject to something else the imperial federal government has made far more expensive to obtain, i.e. prescription drugs.

Just how in the Hell has the Govt made prescription drugs too expensive? needless inspections of drugs made in Canada. Gee, guess who lobbies for this kind of shit? Drug companies. Do your homework, Dave. Drug companies want to jack the prices up sky high...duh. Why do you think you can buy the SAME drug in Vancouver for 75% cheaper than you can in Denver?

Dean, you are right, drug companies do charge too much for drugs. That said, like I mentioned earlier, it's the US that has to pay for research for these drugs and the research costs millions of dollars for each new drug. This is why new drugs are given a 7 year "head start" before a generic can be produced-to help the companies recover some of the money spent on research.

Now, back to drug prices-there are things that are being done to help this. Drug companies are not allowed to "shmooze" as much as they used to. The used to send providers on vacations, buy out entire movie theaters, host expensive dinners etc. Restrictions have been placed on what they can do now and hopefully this will help a little. I do recognize that providers need to do their part to help reduce costs as well. Myself, I do not participate in drug company sponsored dinners, catered lunches, etc. I don't feel it's right for me to benefit in that way while my patients pay an insane amount for a drug that they need.

[Rockindeano]

Oh, and also, last time I checked, not ONE highway in the USA makes money. is it useful? You bet.

You're exactly right Dean, they don't make money. But that is one of the Constitional uses for taxation. Paying for someones health care, rent, tatoo removal (there in California)... all of that IS NOT. The government should stick to its Constitutional limitations and the rest will take care of itself. It worked for the first 150 years.

When it continues to do all this that doesn't make money, that's how you get owned by China.

Come on Man......I am not advocating paying for amenities like tatoo removal and that kind of shit. Be real.

[RossValoryRocks]

Here everyone:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_c ... hcare.html

Again...a Canadian doctor...4 month waits for radiation treatments, days (not DAY, DAYS plural) long waits in the ER, PET and CAT scan machines off limits to patient care because they are being used for animal research???

DO YOU WANT THIS?

I don't know. let's see, wait for 2 days for a CAT scan, or never get one at all. Real easy choice.

Not TWO days for a cat scan...weeks...2 day for ER care.

So you do want that?