President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Michigan Girl]

I don't think for one single second that the folks who didn't care about purchasing
their own health insurance to begin with will now suddenly start caring about preventive
Dr. visits, etc. If the people I'm referring to have to pay one red cent for a paps or a
prostate exam, they aren't doing it ...with or without medical coverage!! So you can
save the this HC plan is saving Americans billions crap.

Thank you!!

[Melissa]

Social security

Another way the government has been stealing money from hard working people. It really disgusts me to know that my mother, who worked for 31 years of her life before getting diagnosed with breast cancer and dying at 50, paid into that for those 31 years, and because she died "too young", my father or no one she left behind will ever get it back.

[Angel]

I was just over at a Transportation Board(yeah, I frequent serious boards too), and I snipped this comment from an elderly retired medical employee.

Natalie, Donna, can you comment on this?

> I am a retired hospital administrator. Mr. Issa
> is absolutely correct about the fraud in Medicare.
> If we could cut off the state of Florida and part
> of Texas and southern California, we could reduce
> the amount of Medicare fraud enough to pay for all
> of the "Obama care" etc. Can you tell me why a
> 90+ year old female with heart problems has to
> have a mammogram before discharge from the
> hospital? I have two friends who have run into
> this with their elderly mothers (one in California
> and one on the east coast) . That's just a small
> example. We have Vietnamese in San Jose CA who
> run bus loads of people (whom they pay) down to
> LA for unnecessary tests, "procedures" etc. and
> then bill Medicare for them. We have dialysis
> centers billing Medicare for patients who have
> died or been removed from dialysis long ago but
> are still being paid since dialysis for any age is
> paid for by Medicare. Part of the problem is the
> sheer magnitude of the numbers of people and
> procedures and paper work and etc and how many
> people are available to track this stuff. The
> people scamming the system can do so very quickly
> and by the time "the system' catches up with them,
> they are long gone and the Medicare money is in
> their pockets.
>
> Don't get me started.
> C.

This struck me as a very interestring post.

Well Dean, since you just copied and pasted from a message board, this information is someone's perspective and it's highly incorrect. Why a 90 year old woman needs a mammogram before being discharged from the hospital? Well, I don't know, what was she hospitalized for?

Yes, Medicare fraud happens but what this person describes is not really the way it works. Medicare scrutinizes EVERY charge and if they don't agree with it, they won't pay for it. It would take me all day to explain Medicare to you and I don't have that kind of time. I do think it's ridiculous, however, that you copy and paste a post that doesn't even make sense, from another message board and want me or Donna to comment on it as if it's some sort of "evidence" that our healthcare system doesn't work when clearly the author of said post has no idea what he or she is talking about.

[Melissa]

I don't think for one single second that the folks who didn't care about purchasing
their own health insurance to begin with will now suddenly start caring about preventive
Dr. visits, etc. If the people I'm referring to have to pay one red cent for a paps or a
prostate exam, they aren't doing it ...with or without medical coverage!! So you can
save the this HC plan is saving Americans billions crap.

Thank you!!

Exactly!

[Melissa]

Things cost astronomical amounts because there are insurance companies...I'm like Dean, I LOATHE insurance companies. If there were no IC - prices would either be affordable, or we'd have 1000s of people dying every day.....

"jeesh Mr. Jones. You got this pain in your left thoracic quadrant? Here's 10 tests we need to run....good thing you got insurance....<<wink>>" THAT'S why healthcare is so expensive.

Wrong. I don't like insurance companies either and I fight with them at work ALL THE TIME, but insurance is not always the evil people think they are. I was happy to have insurance when my daughter was hospitalized and my out of pocket pay was $400 rather than the entire $13,000 bill.

[Melissa]

Things cost astronomical amounts because there are insurance companies...I'm like Dean, I LOATHE insurance companies. If there were no IC - prices would either be affordable, or we'd have 1000s of people dying every day.....

"jeesh Mr. Jones. You got this pain in your left thoracic quadrant? Here's 10 tests we need to run....good thing you got insurance....<<wink>>" THAT'S why healthcare is so expensive.

NO...it is expensive because if doctors DIDN'T run all those tests and people died because they skipped one they would be sued into oblivion.

LAYWERS are worse than insurance companies.

In fact doctors that over use testing can get in trouble with the insurance companies.

Exactly, exactly, exactly!!!

[Melissa]

In fact doctors that over use testing can get in trouble with the insurance companies.

Exactly! And every test that's ordered has to be justified. I can't just run a battery of tests for the hell of it-I have to give a diagnosis or a symptom to justify EVERY test I order.

Exactly, ICD-9 codes, CPT codes, V-codes, etc., but trying to explain all this crap to these laymen liberals is like talking to a brick wall

[Melissa]

In fact doctors that over use testing can get in trouble with the insurance companies.

Exactly! And every test that's ordered has to be justified. I can't just run a battery of tests for the hell of it-I have to give a diagnosis or a symptom to justify EVERY test I order.

Then why do I get billed $80 for 2 Tylenol?

To pay for the nursing, the doctor and equipment used to treat you while you are in the hospital.

As well as to treat everyone else there who isn't paying a dime.

[Rockindeano]

Did it ever once occur to some of you that the reason some people do not spend "one red cent" on health care is that they simply don't have the money to do so? They are poor, and thus must choose between say, eating and medicine? It is true, and very real.

[Melissa]

Did it ever once occur to some of you thsat the reson some people do not spend "one red cent" on health care is that they simply don't have the money to do so? They are poor, and thus must choose between say, eating and medicine? It is true, and very real.

Nuh-uh, really? Hey maybe that guy you threw a soda at is in the that very position... just a thought...

Anyway, Dean seriously, those of us who work in healthcare and have for YEARS are not a bunch of evil "cons", we just KNOW, and know WELL, how much abuse there has been of government funded healthcare already and that it is a BIG reason why this country has gotten into the situation it is in right now. So when someone brings up the argument to me you just did, with the "oh but they can't afford insurance", well sorry but for a LOT of these people who claim that, that is total crap. It amazes me how many "poor" people on Medicaid I see at work who can sure as hell afford an iphone! Sorry but if *I* were that poor that I needed to, as you say, choose between eating and medicine, I sure as hell wouldn't have a freaking iphone. I know there are people who TRULY can not afford to pay for healthcare and so of course a program like Medicaid is needed for them, and of course I fully support that for people who TRULY NEED it. But I'm sorry, it's the ones who ABUSE it that I am fed up with. Entitlement mentality in this country is at the worst I've ever seen it, and it's driving this country into the ground.

[lights1961]

Anyway, Dean seriously, those of us who work in healthcare and have for YEARS are not a bunch of evil "cons", we just KNOW, and know WELL, how much abuse there has been of government funded healthcare already and that it is a BIG reason why this country has gotten into the situation it is in right now. So when someone brings up the argument to me you just did, with the "oh but they can't afford insurance", well sorry but for a LOT of these people who claim that, that is total crap. It amazes me how many "poor" people on Medicaid I see at work who can sure as hell afford an iphone! Sorry but if *I* were that poor that I needed to, as you say, choose between eating and medicine, I sure as hell wouldn't have a freaking iphone. I know there are people who TRULY can not afford to pay for healthcare and so of course a program like Medicaid is needed for them, and of course I fully support that for people who TRULY NEED it. But I'm sorry, it's the ones who ABUSE it that I am fed up with. Entitlement mentality in this country is at the worst I've ever seen it, and it's driving this country into the ground.[/quote]

+10000000000 and in full 100% agreement... you got it right Melissa... and DEANO nothing is FREE...

[S2M]

My point in all of this arguing comes down to this. I think it is absolutely shameful that people in the USA make profits off of sick citizens, and big fake and exagerrated profits at that.

So you think that I shouldn't be paid a good salary for TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN??????

I'll fix it for you......every profession thinks they are god's gift to the working world.....did you go into the Healthcare profession to become rich?

No ones works a job to become rich...but you should be able to be PAID to do your job.

Teachers are paid. A full year's salary for 8 months of work, including a whole lot of off days, and vacations. Teachers are paid well enough not to strike every 4 years, or so....I don't feel sorry for teachers AT ALL.

You forgot about the zillion hours of prep work and conferencing teachers put in when the students aren't actually sitting in the classroom.

And believe it or not, some teachers do work a second job. Southern California isn't San Antonio, that's for sure.

Well they get paid for 365 days, and work in the classroom about 180 days, so the 'zillion' hours of prep work are make-up hours, in my mind....

and working a second job isn't the plight of teachers alone....it is a personal issue, not profession-based.

[Michigan Girl]

Did it ever once occur to some of you thsat the reson some people do not spend "one red cent" on health care is that they simply don't have the money to do so? They are poor, and thus must choose between say, eating and medicine? It is true, and very real.

Nuh-uh, really? Hey maybe that guy you threw a soda at is in the that very position... just a thought...

Anyway, Dean seriously, those of us who work in healthcare and have for YEARS are not a bunch of evil "cons", we just KNOW, and know WELL, how much abuse there has been of government funded healthcare already and that it is a BIG reason why this country has gotten into the situation it is in right now. So when someone brings up the argument to me you just did, with the "oh but they can't afford insurance", well sorry but for a LOT of these people who claim that, that is total crap. It amazes me how many "poor" people on Medicaid I see at work who can sure as hell afford an iphone! Sorry but if *I* were that poor that I needed to, as you say, choose between eating and medicine, I sure as hell wouldn't have a freaking iphone. I know there are people who TRULY can not afford to pay for healthcare and so of course a program like Medicaid is needed for them, and of course I fully support that for people who TRULY NEED it. But I'm sorry, it's the ones who ABUSE it that I am fed up with. Entitlement mentality in this country is at the worst I've ever seen it, and it's driving this country into the ground.

THIS^^^^^ as has been stated oooover and oooover, in this thread ALONE!!!
The only thing I disagree with Ms. Melly on is the fact that the only people who see this behavior are in the health
care profession. I see it every day and I have nothing to do w/that field. Women who can't afford to pay for their
baby's shots, but they have those $10,000.00 spinning rims on their Escalades, LV handbags, Nails as long as a samurai sword painted
15 colors, the grill that they call teeth ...all the while chatting it up on their I~Phone 'bout how they be headed on down to
the health unit to be gettin' their baby hees shots

Yeah, I feel sorry for those poor bastards

[Melissa]

THIS^^^^^ as has been stated oooover and oooover, in this thread ALONE!!!
The only thing I disagree with Ms. Melly on is the fact that the only people who see this behavior are in the health
care profession. I see it every day and I have nothing to do w/that field. Women who can't afford to pay for their
baby's shots, but they have those $10,000.00 spinning rims on their Escalades, LV handbags, Nails as long as a samurai sword painted
15 colors, the grill that they call teeth ...all the while chatting it up on their I~Phone 'bout how they be headed on down to
the health unit to be gettin' their baby hees shots

Yeah, I feel sorry for those poor bastards

SO true. And I don't mean to sound judgemental because I can't stand judgemental people, it's just the ABUSE of this that has gotten SO out of control and has caused things to get worse and worse, and unfortunately they will probably get even more worse, and it's already so bad it's hard to even fathom that, but I'm sure it's coming. Funny thing is though, Medicaid IS starting to crack down HARD on what they will and won't cover, and it's royally pissing off some of these people who abuse it They may just have to give up that iphone, that big ass SUV, that designer purse, those gold teeth, and those ugly ass nail jobs every month ... oh those poor things! How will they ever survive??

[whirlwind]

Did it ever once occur to some of you thsat the reson some people do not spend "one red cent" on health care is that they simply don't have the money to do so? They are poor, and thus must choose between say, eating and medicine? It is true, and very real.

They should be made to do community service big time to earn it then. I'll wager that the deadbeats outweigh the poor. Send them into the inner cities to use whatever skills they have. Everyone in the inner cities could have a fine time helping each other out.

[Michigan Girl]

THIS^^^^^ as has been stated oooover and oooover, in this thread ALONE!!!
The only thing I disagree with Ms. Melly on is the fact that the only people who see this behavior are in the health
care profession. I see it every day and I have nothing to do w/that field. Women who can't afford to pay for their
baby's shots, but they have those $10,000.00 spinning rims on their Escalades, LV handbags, Nails as long as a samurai sword painted
15 colors, the grill that they call teeth ...all the while chatting it up on their I~Phone 'bout how they be headed on down to
the health unit to be gettin' their baby hees shots

Yeah, I feel sorry for those poor bastards

SO true. And I don't mean to sound judgemental because I can't stand judgemental people, it's just the ABUSE of this that has gotten SO out of control and has caused things to get worse and worse, and unfortunately they will probably get even more worse, and it's already so bad it's hard to even fathom that, but I'm sure it's coming. Funny thing is though, Medicaid IS starting to crack down HARD on what they will and won't cover, and it's royally pissing off some of these people who abuse it They may just have to give up that iphone, that big ass SUV, that designer purse, those gold teeth, and those ugly ass nail jobs every month ... oh those poor things! How will they ever survive??

Absolutely and it's the above described bad apples who have hardened us
to the folks who truly need and deserve this help ...the ones who have worked their butts off
making a meager wage, but supported and fed their families, paid their bills and lived modestly while doing so!!
True Americans are people who don't want anything for free, they don't want handouts they just want a fair shot to earn
their keep ...not because they're white, not because they're black, but because they have PRIDE, not only in their
country, but themselves!!! Unfortunately, the people who will benefit from this plan are people who know how to work
the system ...the ones who do not deserve it !! And who pays?!? Me, You and millions of others who do not deserve it ...

[lights1961]

to the folks who truly need and deserve this help ...the ones who have worked their butts off
making a meager wage, but supported and fed their families, paid their bills and lived modestly while doing so!!
True Americans are people who don't want anything for free, they don't want handouts they just want a fair shot to earn
their keep ...[b]not because they're white, not because they're black, but because they have PRIDE, not only in their
country, but themselves!!! [/b]Unfortunately, the people who will benefit from this plan are people who know how to work
the system ...the ones who do not deserve it !! And who pays?!? Me, You and millions of others who do not deserve it ...


THE POST OF THE YEAR!! AND one of the BEST LINES ever written on here...

Thank you for saying intellegently what I have been thinking here for years...but not knowing how to say it...
AND MG.... I will only add that for GENERATIONS before now, we have always strived for EXCELLENCE alng with PRIDE...
but lately its been replaced by striving for self esteem, labels...and entitlements...especially during the last 20 -30 years or so...


R

[Rockindeano]

Did it ever once occur to some of you that the reason some people do not spend "one red cent" on health care is that they simply don't have the money to do so? They are poor, and thus must choose between say, eating and medicine? It is true, and very real.

Nuh-uh, really? Hey maybe that guy you threw a soda at is in the that very position... just a thought...

I hate you...because I like you and don't like arguing with you..it's as if I am not allowed to or supposed to..

Anyway, Dean seriously, those of us who work in healthcare and have for YEARS are not a bunch of evil "cons", we just KNOW, and know WELL, how much abuse there has been of government funded healthcare already and that it is a BIG reason why this country has gotten into the situation it is in right now. So when someone brings up the argument to me you just did, with the "oh but they can't afford insurance", well sorry but for a LOT of these people who claim that, that is total crap. It amazes me how many "poor" people on Medicaid I see at work who can sure as hell afford an iphone! Sorry but if *I* were that poor that I needed to, as you say, choose between eating and medicine, I sure as hell wouldn't have a freaking iphone. I know there are people who TRULY can not afford to pay for healthcare and so of course a program like Medicaid is needed for them, and of course I fully support that for people who TRULY NEED it. But I'm sorry, it's the ones who ABUSE it that I am fed up with. Entitlement mentality in this country is at the worst I've ever seen it, and it's driving this country into the ground.

Yes, I KNOW there is abuse Smelly. However, there is abuse in Healthcare, taxes, business, politics, you name it. That is not the point of my argument. I do not have any idea whatsoever to combat abuse..I really don't. I am just stating my desire for whay I would like to see happen= Universal HC. Your post is well taken though.

[Rockindeano]

They should be made to do community service big time to earn it then. I'll wager that the deadbeats outweigh the poor. Send them into the inner cities to use whatever skills they have. Everyone in the inner cities could have a fine time helping each other out.

THIS is something I would look into. This is a great thought process. Kind of like Americorps, but you work for health care. The only exemption I could see is for the truly injured or handicapped. the rest of em, I would say "fuck em."

[RossValoryRocks]

They should be made to do community service big time to earn it then. I'll wager that the deadbeats outweigh the poor. Send them into the inner cities to use whatever skills they have. Everyone in the inner cities could have a fine time helping each other out.

THIS is something I would look into. This is a great thought process. Kind of like Americorps, but you work for health care. The only exemption I could see is for the truly injured or handicapped. the rest of em, I would say "fuck em."

Can we include welfare recipients too? I would be on board with this!

[whirlwind]

They should be made to do community service big time to earn it then. I'll wager that the deadbeats outweigh the poor. Send them into the inner cities to use whatever skills they have. Everyone in the inner cities could have a fine time helping each other out.

THIS is something I would look into. This is a great thought process. Kind of like Americorps, but you work for health care. The only exemption I could see is for the truly injured or handicapped. the rest of em, I would say "fuck em."

Can we include welfare recipients too? I would be on board with this!

You got it! If the deadbeats have to work it off and not get paid, aside from the med. care they need, they might just seek employment where a paycheck is involved.
I mentioned inner cities because it's a real sore point with me.
My hometown was the nicest possible place to grow up in with well kept neighborhoods and an ideal business district. The business district is nearly a ghost town now and each time I visit the town, there are more boarded up homes than the time before. What the hell is America going to do about it's inner cities? The people should be made to shape up and they would have a great workforce if they were made to account for themselves. Some of the homes are simply squatted domains.

[donnaplease]

Not gonna quote your post, Dean, but of course fraud and abuse occurs. I don't know of a lot of 90 year old women who get mammo's, but there may have been a legitimate reason for it. Could be that the only way she would get it (if it was truly required) was to get it while she was still there. Maybe she didn't have transportation back to the hospital, maybe she lived 2 hours away... could be any number of reasons.

Medicare and Medicaid audit providers often - Medicare will either do a 'pre-pay' audit or sometimes they will come back after the fact and do a 'post-pay' audit. Sometimes they will even reject claims simply because they chose a particular ICD-9 code to focus on, and are looking for evidence of necessity for the services paid. Not all providers are the devil incarnate, though. I used to work for a doctor who wouldn't bill for many of the services he could have because the patients didn't have the best secondary coverage, or needed to meet their deductible, or whatever.

As for so many people not being able to 'afford' health insurance... I can't AFFORD it either! I could drive a nicer car or have new clothes more often, or take fancy trips if I didn't have to pay those premiums every few weeks. But guess what? We make it work, because it is a necessity and we are morally bound to do so for our family. Perhaps, in some cases (not all, mind you) if people thought more about doing the right thing for their own, they wouldn't have to expect others to do it for them. Disclaimer: This isn't directed at anyone in particular.

Dean, I gotta ask you a question, a serious, sincere question. You have talked a few times here about the moral and ethical obligation of our society to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. Do you believe partial-birth abortion is ok? It is a yes or no questioin - there is no "if the mother's life is at risk" answer, because that argument is not factually sound (in other words, there are no documented cases where this procedure performed on the baby in and of itself is required to prevent the mother from dying). Not asking about first trimester abortions, that's a totally different animal.

[S2M]

What makes me mad is trash, littering, and the overall lack of respect for this country - as far as garbage on the streets, sidewalks...etc. Illegals want to come to this country and leech off the system, yet don't mind living in virtual squalor. Believe me, I delivered mail in absolute warzone-esque neighborhoods. Cigarette butts, discarded lottery tickets, empty DD coffee cups....you name it. Dirty condoms, foil packs....you name it. If everybody just looked after their own STREET....this country would look great, and maybe, just MAYBE people would have more respect for it. Especially the fucking lowlife illegals who gum up the works here.....

My friend Mark, the mail carrier, at an actual mail delivery....I took the picture. You be the judge.

[Rick]

What makes me mad is trash, littering, and the overall lack of respect for this country - as far as garbage on the streets, sidewalks...etc. Illegals want to come to this country and leech off the system, yet don't mind living in virtual squalor. Believe me, I delivered mail in absolute warzone-esque neighborhoods. Cigarette butts, discarded lottery tickets, empty DD coffee cups....you name it. Dirty condoms, foil packs....you name it. If everybody just looked after their own STREET....this country would look great, and maybe, just MAYBE people would have more respect for it. Especially the fucking lowlife illegals who gum up the works here.....

My friend Mark, the mail carrier, at an actual mail delivery....I took the picture. You be the judge.

I don't know, a little paint, a few flowers, a couple of throw pillows...

[Rockindeano]

Dean, I gotta ask you a question, a serious, sincere question. You have talked a few times here about the moral and ethical obligation of our society to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. Do you believe partial-birth abortion is ok? It is a yes or no questioin - there is no "if the mother's life is at risk" answer, because that argument is not factually sound (in other words, there are no documented cases where this procedure performed on the baby in and of itself is required to prevent the mother from dying). Not asking about first trimester abortions, that's a totally different animal.

I hate abortion, let's get that straight right now. I also think it should be a very personal decision and not a political one. It is a very private matter. Having said that, and this hurts me to say, is I have to go with the woman's choice here. I personally hate it mind you...but her body comes first. That's just the evil unfortunate truth. Now I feel sick.

[whirlwind]

What makes me mad is trash, littering, and the overall lack of respect for this country - as far as garbage on the streets, sidewalks...etc. Illegals want to come to this country and leech off the system, yet don't mind living in virtual squalor. Believe me, I delivered mail in absolute warzone-esque neighborhoods. Cigarette butts, discarded lottery tickets, empty DD coffee cups....you name it. Dirty condoms, foil packs....you name it. If everybody just looked after their own STREET....this country would look great, and maybe, just MAYBE people would have more respect for it. Especially the fucking lowlife illegals who gum up the works here.....

My friend Mark, the mail carrier, at an actual mail delivery....I took the picture. You be the judge.

I don't get it. You get a fine for littering the highways and the cities are deep in trash. You are not allowed to walk the freeways but the homeless live on the streets, in doorways and beg in the streets. I've traveled a lot, in other countries, and our inner cities are among the scariest places on earth.

[Angel]

ICD-9 codes, CPT codes, V-codes, etc.,

Melissa, stop, you're giving me a headache!!!

[Angel]

It amazes me how many "poor" people on Medicaid I see at work who can sure as hell afford an iphone! Sorry but if *I* were that poor that I needed to, as you say, choose between eating and medicine, I sure as hell wouldn't have a freaking iphone. I know there are people who TRULY can not afford to pay for healthcare and so of course a program like Medicaid is needed for them, and of course I fully support that for people who TRULY NEED it. But I'm sorry, it's the ones who ABUSE it that I am fed up with. Entitlement mentality in this country is at the worst I've ever seen it, and it's driving this country into the ground.

My biggest pet peeve is those people that drink and smoke and can't "afford" insurance. But you can "afford" cigarettes and beer. But you can't "afford" the insurance that will pay your COPD, lung cancer, cirrhosis of the liver, bill.

[Melissa]

ICD-9 codes, CPT codes, V-codes, etc.,

Melissa, stop, you're giving me a headache!!!

Yeah don't you just love those? The ICD-9 book alone is as big as a stinking dictionary. I hate that damn thing

[Melissa]

It amazes me how many "poor" people on Medicaid I see at work who can sure as hell afford an iphone! Sorry but if *I* were that poor that I needed to, as you say, choose between eating and medicine, I sure as hell wouldn't have a freaking iphone. I know there are people who TRULY can not afford to pay for healthcare and so of course a program like Medicaid is needed for them, and of course I fully support that for people who TRULY NEED it. But I'm sorry, it's the ones who ABUSE it that I am fed up with. Entitlement mentality in this country is at the worst I've ever seen it, and it's driving this country into the ground.

My biggest pet peeve is those people that drink and smoke and can't "afford" insurance. But you can "afford" cigarettes and beer. But you can't "afford" the insurance that will pay your COPD, lung cancer, cirrhosis of the liver, bill.

Yeah my biggest one is with parents who are smokers around their babies and kids, and who will have the nerve to get pissed at doctors who can't get their kids' chronic coughs under control. Or when a kid comes in wheezing his head off, retracting, crappy O2 sat., etc. and the parents AND the kid smell like they've been hanging out in a smokey bar for a week. Oh and another I had just last week, premie baby on an apnea monitor, and the father smells like a damn chimney