President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Saint John]

:lol: Look at Smelly gettin' all up in there in the Political thread!

There's just certain views that get on my nerves, and the whole attitude the Obama sheep have about healthcare is one of them!

And Dan your points are always great. I always find it so funny it's considered "selfish" to want to keep my paycheck, that I worked to earn, to take care of my own kids. Amazing!

Every year Chicago sends you a breakdown of where your property taxes go. I own a house and a condo in Chicago and it baffles me that 70% of my property taxes go to the Chicago Public Schools. I don't have any kids, though! I just find it wild that the vast majority of my property tax money on 2 residences goes to educate other peoples' children, my payroll tax money goes to help those that don't work and, like you pointed out, people want me to feel guilty about it!

Then there's the wealthy ... the people that float the money for almost the entire country, and they're called exponentially worse than me. But no one ever asks this ... what about the free loaders? What are they? It's not politically correct and also political suicide for the right to call them what they are, and the left "buys" votes from them by giving them handouts and keeping them dependent on the system. But *I* am neither so I can tell what you they are. They're the lowest form of citizen this country has, barely ahead of incarcerated pimps, drug dealers, rapists and murderers. Just like them, they're an anchor around this country's waist and they're growing larger in numbers every year. They're the typical pieces of shit you see cashing government checks or these bullshit "disability" checks and then heading off to the casino, liquor store, hair/nail salon, cell phone store or doctor to get their fucking xanax "prescription" or other fake malady filled. I say we make them feel guilty for just once and cut them off completely. Maybe then they'll adapt and become functioning parts of society. Me? I don't feel guilty anymore. I'm desensitized because of the left. I used to give virtually every asshole on a corner with a cup a dollar. Now I wanna steal their fucking cup and have them feel what it's like.

[conversationpc]

I say we make them feel guilty for just once and cut them off completely. Maybe then they'll adapt and become functioning parts of society.

This is the same kind of thing Benjamin Franklin said when he said...

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.

[slucero]

I have a fucking idea!!!

ELIMINATE wasteful government military spending! We already spend more on the military per capita than any nation in the world. No more sweetheart deals between the GOP and Halliburton! No more $5,500 hammers! We could save HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR and still not lose ONE INCH militarily.

THAT'S where we start. NOT eliminating some extremely vital and essential programs that THEMSELVES create hundreds of thousands of jobs!!!

Idiots.

http://www.progress.org/2005/tcs182.htm

Of course NO ONE will address my prior post because, once again, it shoots their theories in the foot...you can expect some third-rate blog quote as a retort, as is the standard.

I am sure FF, RWF and Slucero absolutely think the B2 is the more worthwhile expenditure.

Way to go Deano.. lumping everybody who you think doesn't agree with you into the same bucket... but it's what we all expect from you.

Obviousley you didn't READ my response to 7W... right above your post...

ELIMINATE wasteful government military spending!

I agree - but good luck with that one...

Neither party is really interested in tackling spending... they'd have no "toys" if spending got cut...

[Seven Wishes2]

costs the hospitals in this country billions, yes BILLIONS of dollars to take care of Medicaid patients who don't pay a dime. And people bitch and complain and wonder why the costs of healthcare have gone up because the number of people on it keeps increasing and increasing every year. Would you rather all these hospitals shut down and then YOUR access to them is GONE? I just don't understand that attitude, it's ok to want to "spread the wealth", but heaven forbid the bills get spread too Hospitals and doctors are just supposed to keep providing care for free and f*ck THEM for trying to stay in service and keep providing care, right? Such a ridiculous attitude you laymen without a clue have about hospitals, doctors, and the entire healthcare field.

Your condescending tone aside, I'm going to tell you a few things. First of all, before I decided to be happy and figured life was more than just a big paycheck, I worked as a healthcare administrator. So I am NOT a "layman". I know just about everything there is to know about this subject - I was in the field for 11 years.

Secondly, it is BECAUSE Medicaid patients frequent ER's for strained eyelids and head colds that healthcare reform is needed. There will never, ever be a time in America where public hospitals will have the option to NOT provide medical treatment to the "needy" or truly needy. Never! It's also a violation of the Hippocratic oath. I can assure you, that will NEVER happen, so put down the crack pipe.

My final point is - why is the entire right blasting Obama for the individual mandate when it was THEIR idea to begin with? Republicans LOVED this idea until Obama attached his name to it - and that he did only because the neo-cons in Congress FORCED him to drop the single payor option. IT WAS YOUR FUCKING IDEA!!!! There was nary a PEEP from the right about how this constituted "socialism" or "state-run helathcare" when it was a REPUBLICAN idea!

Fucking hypocrites!

[Seven Wishes2]

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

Right.

Funny how the staggered tax system brought America from near third-world status and turned us into what now endures as the world's only superpower.

Get over it, already. This system WORKS and it has been in place (not coincidentally) since the boon of the late 50's and 60's. There is no way in HELL a flat tax will ever work, even if it seems conceptually sound.

[Saint John]

There is no way in HELL a flat tax will ever work, even if it seems conceptually sound.

Not as long as we continue to coddle losers and have enablers.

[Melissa]

Your condescending tone aside, I'm going to tell you a few things. First of all, before I decided to be happy and figured life was more than just a big paycheck, I worked as a healthcare administrator. So I am NOT a "layman". I know just about everything there is to know about this subject - I was in the field for 11 years.

Secondly, it is BECAUSE Medicaid patients frequent ER's for strained eyelids and head colds that healthcare reform is needed. There will never, ever be a time in America where public hospitals will have the option to NOT provide medical treatment to the "needy" or truly needy. Never! It's also a violation of the Hippocratic oath. I can assure you, that will NEVER happen, so put down the crack pipe.

My final point is - why is the entire right blasting Obama for the individual mandate when it was THEIR idea to begin with? Republicans LOVED this idea until Obama attached his name to it - and that he did only because the neo-cons in Congress FORCED him to drop the single payor option. IT WAS YOUR FUCKING IDEA!!!! There was nary a PEEP from the right about how this constituted "socialism" or "state-run helathcare" when it was a REPUBLICAN idea!

Fucking hypocrites!

First of all I don't recall singling YOU out, but thanks for the namecalling. I'M the one with the condescending tone? Right. I've been at this for going on 17 years, so I know what I'm talking about too, thank you. But you just keep believing it's not the huge problem it really is.

[Seven Wishes2]

What? Where exactly did you get the idea I DON'T think it's a big idea! We've needed to address this issue for 50 years!

Now, personally, I am OPPOSED to the individual mandate.

And no...I wasn't calling you names. I was referring to the GOP in general (and I call out the left when they're at it, too) for pimping and OWNING this idea for 30 years and then suddenly decrying it as socialistic and totalitarian when the OTHER side decided to adapt it on their platform. Not you.

[Seven Wishes2]

There is no way in HELL a flat tax will ever work, even if it seems conceptually sound.

Not as long as we continue to coddle losers and have enablers.

I would appreciate it if you left your thinly veiled references to Cleveland sports franchises to their appropriate threads, Dan.

[Melissa]

What? Where exactly did you get the idea I DON'T think it's a big idea! We've needed to address this issue for 50 years!

Now, personally, I am OPPOSED to the individual mandate.

And no...I wasn't calling you names. I was referring to the GOP in general (and I call out the left when they're at it, too) for pimping and OWNING this idea for 30 years and then suddenly decrying it as socialistic and totalitarian when the OTHER side decided to adapt it on their platform. Not you.

I don't know where that's coming from then since 30 years ago Reagan even stated that socialized medicine would not help people, it would oppress them, and that's true. I don't recall any time in history Republicans being for a socialized type plan like this for healthcare. That would be like saying they were for abortion at some point too, lol..

[Seven Wishes2]

But I just provided links proving they did! WTF?!!!!

[Melissa]

But I just provided links proving they did! WTF?!!!!

You did?

And Republicans aren't against the entire thing, there is just a LOT in there that they feel shouldn't be, and putting way too much govt control over healthcare is the main problem with it. Way too much govt control over anything= failure.

[Saint John]

There is no way in HELL a flat tax will ever work, even if it seems conceptually sound.

Not as long as we continue to coddle losers and have enablers.

I would appreciate it if you left your thinly veiled references to Cleveland sports franchises to their appropriate threads, Dan.

That might actually be a compliment for them.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Right.

Funny how the staggered tax system brought America from near third-world status and turned us into what now endures as the world's only superpower.

Get over it, already. This system WORKS and it has been in place (not coincidentally) since the boon of the late 50's and 60's. There .

Im not sure I follow your reasoning. In the period up to 1928 when when tax rates on marginal tax rates where low, we were overtaking Britain as the World's economic superpower and establishing our economic hegemony. In the late 1950's we were the only country not ravished by war II and held massive comparative economic advantage - because of this the higer marginal tax rates we put in place did not effect the US negatively, growth was DESPITE the rates not because of them- However, we dont hold economic hegemony anymore. The US has strong competitors, all of the who benefit from shifting comparative economic advatage , and they are encouraging inward investment and risk taking through low marginal tax rates. We might be the worlds greatest superpower but we are suffering relative economic deline.

[conversationpc]

Funny how the staggered tax system brought America from near third-world status and turned us into what now endures as the world's only superpower.

This is one of the funniest things I've read in this thread...and there have been some really good ones. I'm pretty sure that our tax system has very little whatsoever to do with turning us into a superpower. What did this was the industriousness and ingenuity of the American worker and entrepreneur despite the tax system.

[Lula]

i'm fine with a flat tax if all the rediculous tax loop holes and deductions are eliminated.

healthcare should never have become a for profit industry. as it stands we pay for those without insurance every time we pay our premiums. folks without insurance use the er for care and we end up paying. i think we all should have health care and until the fats cats sitting on the hill decline to take the government funded and provided health care they need to leave the few changes to the system alone. damn hypocrites!

yeah, let's cut all those programs funded by the givernment and see what kind of society we have. puh-leeeeze!

[conversationpc]

healthcare should never have become a for profit industry.

Profit is one of the major motivators for ingenuity in the system. Take that out and, in my opinion, our system would become worse than it already is.

[Rockindeano]

1, STOP using asteriks. It's gay. Only RedJoepa13 does that and we all know he is gay. Your BFF Lynn isn't afraid to drop F bombs, neither you should be afraid too.

2- I hear you over and over bitching about abuse. Stop it! .....Because I know you are 100% correct on this, but Mel, you can't legislate morality. There are going to be bad apples in every orchard. And if you start cutting people off the system, eventually a good aple is going to get cut too. I see your point and understand it....but it's so damned hard to enforce it. Do you have any ideas on how we could do it? I would love to hear your take on it.

3- Oh, and the "spreading the wealth" thing has got to stop too. Democrats do spread the wealth...however, so do republicans. When the Republicans give tax cuts to the wealthy, they steal tax revenue from the rest of the country....the rich get their tax cut, the middle and lower class lose out on revenue, and the rich get their money. That too is "spreading the wealth."

1) I will not stop using asterisks because it annoys You should have figured that out by now

2) I'm not "bitching" (there, no asterisk, happy? ) anymore than you do. True you can't legislate morality, but enforcing measures harder to make sure the abusers actually qualify would be a step, even though a baby step. Because it works both ways, people who aren't abusing it and do truly need it are starting to get hit with things not being covered BECAUSE Medicaid is starting to crack down a bit, so yes it can be done, and trust me the abusers are starting to get pissed when they have to pay, heaven forbid, $4 for an antibiotic rather than getting it completely FREE. I see this crap every day, you don't.

3) And no, we do not have to stop complaining about the spreading of wealth thing you guys like to push for. Ever hear that phrase that the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of everyone else's money? Hold on, I'll find the email I received to show that point about taxes, and it involves beer, you should love it, lol...

You know something, you made a great post here. Not just saying that to butter you up, buttercup. You should come into this thread more often.

By the way, I notice none of the Cons are taking my Amtrak v B2 Bomber debate...

Good job Melissa.

[Melissa]

You know something, you made a great post here. Not just saying that to butter you up, buttercup. You should come into this thread more often.

Ny the way, I notice none of the Cons are taking my Amtrak v B2 Bomber debate...

Good job Melissa.

Thanks I don't know enough about the Amtrak/B2 debate, lol. I do know high speed rail here has gotten shot down a couple times and it's ridiculous since we need it here. Pretty much every main highway in and around the metro area has been at 150% capacity or more and no matter how much they tear up roads and try to expand (my car's paint job has taken a beating with all the constant construction and torn up roads ) they will never catch up to the amount of people who live here now and keep moving here. Orlando is the new Miami, unfortunately.

[Saint John]

Amtrak hasn't made a fucking single dime in 30 years and is a completely worthless entity. Every single one of Amtrak's long distance routes loses money ... every single one. They have one route, in the entire fucking country, that is self-sufficient ... the Northeast Corridor, which is essentially Boston to Richmond, Va.

Amtrak is a private business and should be held accountable as one. It has a 30 year track record (pun intended) of failure. It's time to let it die the death it should have been afforded 25 years ago. Fuck, it's been subsidized and bailed out so much that I think it actually expects it anymore and just operates with no sort of budget or fiscal responsibility in mind.

I love rail and would like to see a system developed and perhaps initially subsidized that would give us the much needed high speed rail that other countries have developed. But Amtrak and their archaic, shitty service and trashy trains is not the answer. Here's a cool alternative (and it was founded by a faggy Canadian, Dean ):

http://current.newsweek.com/budgettrave ... us_of.html

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

By the way, I notice none of the Cons are taking my Amtrak v B2 Bomber debate...

.

I think I did a few posts up (although admittedy Im a libertarian not a conservative) . Neither project - one military and one non military- drives economic growth.

[Duncan]

Just to gip in here, but I travalled on Amtrak from Vancouver to Seattle. Could have walked there quicker. Slowest trains in the world, and coming from a Brit that is saying something.

[Lula]

healthcare should never have become a for profit industry.

Profit is one of the major motivators for ingenuity in the system. Take that out and, in my opinion, our system would become worse than it already is.

let me rephrase that- the health of a human being should not have become about making a buck.

[Memorex]

I've never heard the sound of a B-2, but there is nothing like the sound of a distant train.

[Rockindeano]

There is no way in HELL a flat tax will ever work, even if it seems conceptually sound.

Not as long as we continue to coddle losers and have enablers.

We coddle the rich Dan. I have already said it and I will say it again. There is wealth redistribution from BOTH parties. These tax cuts for the top 1% is ridiculous. The republicans think(there is an oxymoron), that the extremely wealtrhy create jobs with tax savings. Reagan tried it...Trickle Down. Guess what, it didn't work then, and it won't work now. Giving these rich folks a tax cut IS wealth redistribution. the Middle Class gets fucked yet again. I simply do not understand why you side with the filthy rich time and time again...it's perplexing to me.

[Seven Wishes2]

But I just provided links proving they did! WTF?!!!!

You did?

And Republicans aren't against the entire thing, there is just a LOT in there that they feel shouldn't be, and putting way too much govt control over healthcare is the main problem with it. Way too much govt control over anything= failure.

Melissa, that the GOP was the party that initially proposed - and then for 30 years supported - the individual mandate (as opposed to the Democratic idea of a single payor option) is as well-known and accepted a fact as the sun rising in the east. It is an INDISPUTABLE fact. ONLY in the past 16 months have Republicans suddenly been opposed to THEIR OWN IDEA.

[Seven Wishes2]

Funny how the staggered tax system brought America from near third-world status and turned us into what now endures as the world's only superpower.

This is one of the funniest things I've read in this thread...and there have been some really good ones. I'm pretty sure that our tax system has very little whatsoever to do with turning us into a superpower. What did this was the industriousness and ingenuity of the American worker and entrepreneur despite the tax system.

Come on, Dave. You know damned well that the whole is only as strong as its weakest link.

I did phrase that rather oddly, though. What I really meant to say is that GDP grew at unprecedented rates while the marginal rate was at its highest - and has slowed down as that upper rate has been systematically reduced over the past 40 years.

[conversationpc]

These tax cuts for the top 1% is ridiculous.

I love how the left phrases this, almost as if the rich are the ONLY ones getting a tax cut. EVERYONE is getting a tax cut and has been for the last 8+ years now.

[conversationpc]

I did phrase that rather oddly, though. What I really meant to say is that GDP grew at unprecedented rates while the marginal rate was at its highest - and has slowed down as that upper rate has been systematically reduced over the past 40 years.

Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing if GDP wouldn't have grown at an even faster rate if businessmen would have been able to spend that extra money on their business rather than forking it over to the government.

[Seven Wishes2]

True. Those are the types of questions - legitimate, mind you - that make a lot of advanced medical research very difficult. For instance, a lot of HIV patients are dying of strokes and heart attacks - but is it because they're living longer and joining those advanced-age risk pools, or is it related to the live-extending regimens they take?

And, more importantly - are Brooke Burke's boobs real? Only a thorough hands-on examination will tell you what you need to know.