OFFICIAL 2010-2011 NFL season & predictions thread:

[YoungJRNY]

Just so everyone's clear: He has a sprained MCL, not a torn MCL, for what that's worth.

They said he was walking around at the facilities with a slight limp. I just don't see how he was SO shattered that he couldn't put his body on the line like so many other QB's would have and have done before. Everyone is acting like he should have been put on a gurney but yet, he was still wondering the sidelines, not even grimacing one bit. Am I missing something? Wherever there's smoke, there's fire. Criticism is what it is for a reason. He's just going to have to deal with it, period. Besides, his teammates are behind him, big fucking deal now. It's already getting old.

Tom, , if this was Benjamin Todd we were talking about instead of Jay Cutler, you would be defending him to the hilt ala Johnny Cochrane to OJ. You simply ARE missing the point. The guy isn't only really fucked up(Dan got this horribly wrong too- a meniscus and MCL are like earth and water)...he isn't only really fucked up, but the pain level is off the fucking charts. Even a dozen extra strength vikes won't mask it(cue that whore natalie running in here clamoring about pill abuse...and if she doesn't, cue that fuckhead Gator coming in and then going to tell on me to Natalie...what a fucked up couple they are)....the MCL is simply paralyzing. But like I said Trav, if BTR were the subject, you would be arguing my position right now.

Rex, it doesn't matter, Ben would give me NOTHING to argue because the dude would of wheeled his ass out on one crutch, a wheel chair and a stick, only to take his team 92 yards and win it with 30 seconds left in the game, and would then be probable in Super Bowl 45

As much as you want this subject to turn into a Steelers rant against me (even though you come to "OG's" defense everytime someone says he doesn't use toilet paper to wipe his asshole), this isn't about Ben. This is about the media tearing into Cutler's will to win and trust me dude, go back and watch it, as excruciating as you make it sound, and I am NOT denying the pain factor because I know you went through hell and back, and then back to hell with your knee problems, but the dude simply was standing there with no emotion, not even a grimace on his face. We will never know, he could have went back out if he truly wanted to put it all on the line.

[Enigma869]

He's taking a lot of unnecessary shit today, by both players and fans.

I agree. I think Cutler is a complete fucking douche and always has been. Oh, and he sucks as a QB. That said, if the dude has a torn MCL, he certainly shouldn't be on a football field! That said, it's ridiculous that Cutler wasn't at least helping Hanie on the sidelines and looking at stills from the booth. That's football 101. The guy is simply a shitbag and a lousy teammate!

[Enigma869]

I would rather take a dick in my virgin asshole from Grape Ape on an all night bender, while Jabber Jaw fucks my mouth then play with a partial MCL tear.

Absolute fucking CLASSIC!

[Enigma869]

I can tell you Ladanlian Tomlinson has NO heart.

Spot on, Dude. You'll find posts of mine from many years ago calling out that big pussy. I have less respect for Tomlinson than I have for Brett Favre. Guy is a complete fucking fraud and a whiny pussy, and always has been!

[Rick]

Just so everyone's clear: He has a sprained MCL, not a torn MCL, for what that's worth.

They said he was walking around at the facilities with a slight limp. I just don't see how he was SO shattered that he couldn't put his body on the line like so many other QB's would have and have done before. Everyone is acting like he should have been put on a gurney but yet, he was still wondering the sidelines, not even grimacing one bit. Am I missing something? Wherever there's smoke, there's fire. Criticism is what it is for a reason. He's just going to have to deal with it, period. Besides, his teammates are behind him, big fucking deal now. It's already getting old.

He wasn't playing well before he got hurt, so leaving him in after he got hurt is a bad idea in that game. At that point, he's not the best they had, so you have to go with plan B, which proved to be more successful than plan A anyway.

Well, plan B was Todd Collins, which baffles my mind on how he is still in-taking an NFL paycheck. If the NFL wants to go to the lockout because of whatever reasons, they need to first terminate Todd Collin's contract IMMEDIATELY! He is simply stealing from the NFL. I have never seen such a horrendous QB in my life.

Ok, plan C then.

[Enigma869]

I think Mendenhall needs to get out more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rQ45PLKmLQ

[Saint John]

(Dan got this horribly wrong too- a meniscus and MCL are like earth and water)

Wrongo! Reports are calling it a Second Degree MCL Sprain, which is not nearly as painful or restrictive as a torn Meniscus.

"A second degree sprain is damage to a more extensive number of ligament fibers, but the ligament remains intact." He had what amounts to a fucking deep bruise! Nothing was torn.

Meniscus tear:

"Individuals who experience a meniscus tear usually experience pain and swelling as their primary symptoms. Another common complaint is joint locking, or the inability to completely straighten the joint. This is due to a piece of the torn cartilage physically impinging the joint mechanism of the knee."

Not playing with bruised ligament fibers or playing with torn cartilage? Jones-Drew 1 and Cutler 0. I'll tell you what, man, Roethlisberger would have played, Favre would have definitely played and so would Steve McNair (if he were alive! ).

[conversationpc]

...and so would Steve McNair (if he were alive! ).

Oooh....

[Saint John]

...and so would Steve McNair (if he were alive! ).

Oooh....

Your elevator is going up, Dave, and mine is going down.

[Rockindeano]

(Dan got this horribly wrong too- a meniscus and MCL are like earth and water)

Wrongo! Reports are calling it a Second Degree MCL Sprain, which is not nearly as painful or restrictive as a torn Meniscus.

"A second degree sprain is damage to a more extensive number of ligament fibers, but the ligament remains intact." He had what amounts to a fucking deep bruise! Nothing was torn.

Meniscus tear:

"Individuals who experience a meniscus tear usually experience pain and swelling as their primary symptoms. Another common complaint is joint locking, or the inability to completely straighten the joint. This is due to a piece of the torn cartilage physically impinging the joint mechanism of the knee."

Not playing with bruised ligament fibers or playing with torn cartilage? Jones-Drew 1 and Cutler 0. I'll tell you what, man, Roethlisberger would have played, Favre would have definitely played and so would Steve McNair (if he were alive! ).

Dan, you are basically my brother on here, and I do love you, BUT again, I think you are incorrect. I would sincerely think a sprained MCL is a lot worse than a torn meniscus. Look at it this way. An MCL is a fan belt. Tear that and ouch. A meniscus is like a frayed wire....it may sting at first, but it still works and you can get by on it. I ripped up all my cartiledge and meniscus playing pickup basketball and hated the other team(United Airlines) that I forged on. That's one time Amtrak beat United Airlines! I remember going off for 30 and hit the game winner with no time left...yeah, I am a stud, i rule in pickup basketball!

[Saint John]

Mark Schlereth wrote, "As a guy who had 20 knee surgeries you'd have to drag me out on a stretcher to leave a championship game!''

[mikemarrs]

Nearing 50, Herschel Walker is talking about an NFL comeback. To hear him tell it, Walker can still give a boost to any NFL team willing to ignore the date on his birth certificate. He turns 49 on March 3. "If I continue to stay in the shape I'm in now, I know I can play when I'm 50," Walker insisted Monday. ... "Right now, if you asked me if I can play today, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind I can play football, that I can help a team out," said Walker, whose spent his final three NFL seasons primarily as a receiver and kick returner for the Giants and Cowboys. "I can 100 percent guarantee you I can help a football team out."

Read more: http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumo ... z1C4vQl9i6

[Rockindeano]

Mark Schlereth wrote, "As a guy who had 20 knee surgeries you'd have to drag me out on a stretcher to leave a championship game!''

Yeah, well good for Mark. Also, fuck him too. NOBODY is in Cutler's shoes, except Jay himself. Again, if Mr. Urlacher said he wasn't faking it, then we all should believe him.

Dan, sometimes you are a stubborn motherfucker.

[Saint John]

Mark Schlereth wrote, "As a guy who had 20 knee surgeries you'd have to drag me out on a stretcher to leave a championship game!''

Yeah, well good for Mark. Also, fuck him too. NOBODY is in Cutler's shoes, except Jay himself. Again, if Mr. Urlacher said he wasn't faking it, then we all should believe him.

Dan, sometimes you are a stubborn motherfucker.

A teammate is almost always going to stick with the player. These other guys have no allegiances, though. I was on record as saying I would side with Cuntler if it turned out to be a Grade III strain. But that's not the case. OG would have played and you are being a "stubborn motherfucker" by not admitting as much!

[Don]

Rivers feels Cutler's pain

The man who many consider Philip Rivers’ nemesis is having his legacy shaped by a postseason knee injury, same as Rivers did three years ago.

However, much like their personalities, there is a polar difference in the situations.

Rivers earned widespread respect from teammates, fans and media for playing the AFC Championship game without an anterior cruciate ligament and six days after surgery to remove most of his meniscus. Cutler, the Chicago Bears quarterback, is being widely derided for not playing through a sprained medial collateral ligament suffered in Sunday’s NFC Championship game.

Rivers said on Monday that he feels for Cutler, a player he has no hard feelings against even as many people like to recall the days when Cutler was in Denver and was vocal about his disdain of Rivers.

“It’s unfortunate,” Rivers said of what happened Sunday in Chicago. “You never want to see someone not at their best … We definitely went through that (in 2007) when we were trying to make a run. From that standpoint, I have (empathy) for him.”

Almost always candid, and with the history to back up his words, Rivers did say that he probably would have continued playing Sunday.

“Me personally, I’d have to have been taken off in a cart,” Rivers said. “That doesn’t mean I’d be right. If they knew he couldn’t throw the ball good, he wasn’t helping anybody ... I’ll never say what he should have done. I can’t even say what I would have done in the same position. I do know I’m not coming out unless I can’t do anything, and maybe that’s how it was (for Cutler).”

Rivers noted that Cutler suffered the injury near the end of the second quarter and played a series to start the third quarter.

“It seems like he tried to go," Rivers said.

Rivers, who left a 2007 game at Tennessee with a sprained MCL but returned after two series to lead a fourth-quarter comeback, is one who can speak from more experience than most. But he cautioned that “every injury is different. They might be classified the same, but it affects people differently.”

Rivers tore his meniscus and also his ACL in the third quarter of the Chargers’ divisional round game at Indianapolis after the 2007 season and did not return. Backup Billy Volek led a game-winning drive. Rivers had surgery to remove the meniscus and played the following Sunday in New England without the ACL.

Rivers also pointed out there are differences between the MCL and ACL and the ligaments’ functions in movement.

A voracious football fan who watches numerous games each week and reads about other teams and players, Rivers said he read that Cutler had previously missed just one game.

“He’s played in 100-something games,” Rivers said. “It’s obviously not like he hasn’t been hit. It’s not like he comes out of a lot of games or misses games. The guy's track record says he plays unless he has a concussion, so it must be bad. Only he knows … Regardless, I really do feel for the guy, not being able to play in the Championship game.”

[Saint John]

Rivers feels Cutler's pain

The man who many consider Philip Rivers’ nemesis is having his legacy shaped by a postseason knee injury, same as Rivers did three years ago.

However, much like their personalities, there is a polar difference in the situations.

Rivers earned widespread respect from teammates, fans and media for playing the AFC Championship game without an anterior cruciate ligament and six days after surgery to remove most of his meniscus. Cutler, the Chicago Bears quarterback, is being widely derided for not playing through a sprained medial collateral ligament suffered in Sunday’s NFC Championship game.

Rivers said on Monday that he feels for Cutler, a player he has no hard feelings against even as many people like to recall the days when Cutler was in Denver and was vocal about his disdain of Rivers.

“It’s unfortunate,” Rivers said of what happened Sunday in Chicago. “You never want to see someone not at their best … We definitely went through that (in 2007) when we were trying to make a run. From that standpoint, I have (empathy) for him.”

Almost always candid, and with the history to back up his words, Rivers did say that he probably would have continued playing Sunday.

“Me personally, I’d have to have been taken off in a cart,” Rivers said. “That doesn’t mean I’d be right. If they knew he couldn’t throw the ball good, he wasn’t helping anybody ... I’ll never say what he should have done. I can’t even say what I would have done in the same position. I do know I’m not coming out unless I can’t do anything, and maybe that’s how it was (for Cutler).”

Rivers noted that Cutler suffered the injury near the end of the second quarter and played a series to start the third quarter.

“It seems like he tried to go," Rivers said.

Rivers, who left a 2007 game at Tennessee with a sprained MCL but returned after two series to lead a fourth-quarter comeback, is one who can speak from more experience than most. But he cautioned that “every injury is different. They might be classified the same, but it affects people differently.”

Rivers tore his meniscus and also his ACL in the third quarter of the Chargers’ divisional round game at Indianapolis after the 2007 season and did not return. Backup Billy Volek led a game-winning drive. Rivers had surgery to remove the meniscus and played the following Sunday in New England without the ACL.

Rivers also pointed out there are differences between the MCL and ACL and the ligaments’ functions in movement.

A voracious football fan who watches numerous games each week and reads about other teams and players, Rivers said he read that Cutler had previously missed just one game.

“He’s played in 100-something games,” Rivers said. “It’s obviously not like he hasn’t been hit. It’s not like he comes out of a lot of games or misses games. The guy's track record says he plays unless he has a concussion, so it must be bad. Only he knows … Regardless, I really do feel for the guy, not being able to play in the Championship game.”

The prosecution rests.

[Rockindeano]

Mark Schlereth wrote, "As a guy who had 20 knee surgeries you'd have to drag me out on a stretcher to leave a championship game!''

Yeah, well good for Mark. Also, fuck him too. NOBODY is in Cutler's shoes, except Jay himself. Again, if Mr. Urlacher said he wasn't faking it, then we all should believe him.

Dan, sometimes you are a stubborn motherfucker.

A teammate is almost always going to stick with the player. These other guys have no allegiances, though. I was on record as saying I would side with Cuntler if it turned out to be a Grade III strain. But that's not the case. OG would have played and you are being a "stubborn motherfucker" by not admitting as much!

Not even OG could play through a MCL sprain or strain. Goddammit Daniel, do I need to slide into home and tear up your MCL just to get you to believe how bad it is? Oh fuck that, I am too old to slide, so I just try to hit it out of the yard so I never have to slide.

[Rockindeano]

Rivers tore his meniscus and also his ACL in the third quarter of the Chargers’ divisional round game at Indianapolis after the 2007 season and did not return. Backup Billy Volek led a game-winning drive. Rivers had surgery to remove the meniscus and played the following Sunday in New England without the ACL.

This validates my point of view on the subject.

One can play through without an ACL...just need a brace to hold the knee together so it won't keep "falling out of place." And also, the surgery to remove the meniscus speaks about just how important the meniscus is...not very. The summation here is that the MCL is a motherfucker, the ACL is not absolutely needed, and meniscus is just wasted shit that you don't need.

And I'll say it again, even OG couldn't go with an MCL injury, and we know, JFB included, that OG is the toughest sonofabitch to ever play sports, period.

[Rhiannon]

This validates my point of view on the subject.

One can play through without an ACL...just need a brace to hold the knee together so it won't keep "falling out of place." And also, the surgery to remove the meniscus speaks about just how important the meniscus is...not very. The summation here is that the MCL is a motherfucker, the ACL is not absolutely needed, and meniscus is just wasted shit that you don't need.

And I'll say it again, even OG couldn't go with an MCL injury, and we know, JFB included, that OG is the toughest sonofabitch to ever play sports, period.

Akshully, without the meniscus, you couldn't walk. It would be bone grinding on bone.

(I think Cutler should've stayed in, played through the pain. Simply because that's what separates the Joe Montanas from the Jon Kitnas of the world. But we all know Cutler isn't legend material, so let's quit acting surprised he took a pine ride.)

[Saint John]

While discussing whether Cutler could have stayed in the game, New Orleans fullback Heath Evans told ESPN's "First Take" program that Saints quarterback Brees was able to play through the injury for weeks.

“Sorry, Drew, I love you, but Drew Brees played six weeks with a torn MCL," Evans said. “I know what Drew Brees did with a torn MCL."

"Yeah, I had an MCL sprain this year and was able to rehab it and play with a brace and it limited my mobility for a period of time," Brees told CBSSports.com. "But I was fortunate enough to be able to get through it.

[lights1961]

yep.. agree with RHI... the biggest issue most people have was he disconnected himself from game... while the 3rd string QB was going over the playbook... where was Cutler trying to help him out??? no where close... me thinks in 20-30 years I could imagine what the saying will be to dads and their young boys... do you want to be a cutler all your life??? I mean what a legacy... and deano... FAVRE would have played through that... hell he would have played the Monday night game that he was blitzed on... and had lights out... but everyone held him back...

R

[YoungJRNY]

This validates my point of view on the subject.

One can play through without an ACL...just need a brace to hold the knee together so it won't keep "falling out of place." And also, the surgery to remove the meniscus speaks about just how important the meniscus is...not very. The summation here is that the MCL is a motherfucker, the ACL is not absolutely needed, and meniscus is just wasted shit that you don't need.

And I'll say it again, even OG couldn't go with an MCL injury, and we know, JFB included, that OG is the toughest sonofabitch to ever play sports, period.

Akshully, without the meniscus, you couldn't walk. It would be bone grinding on bone.

(I think Cutler should've stayed in, played through the pain. Simply because that's what separates the Joe Montanas from the Jon Kitnas of the world. But we all know Cutler isn't legend material, so let's quit acting surprised he took a pine ride.)

Look at RHI, bringing it! Love it, welcome to the NFL Thread, sweets.....

[conversationpc]

While discussing whether Cutler could have stayed in the game, New Orleans fullback Heath Evans told ESPN's "First Take" program that Saints quarterback Brees was able to play through the injury for weeks.

“Sorry, Drew, I love you, but Drew Brees played six weeks with a torn MCL," Evans said. “I know what Drew Brees did with a torn MCL."

"Yeah, I had an MCL sprain this year and was able to rehab it and play with a brace and it limited my mobility for a period of time," Brees told CBSSports.com. "But I was fortunate enough to be able to get through it.

None of these arguments can really account for the unknown differences in physiology between different people and even the same person at different times or circumstances in their life. For instance, I suffered an extremely painful ankle injury playing a game of pick-up basketball several years back. I literally could not walk on it at all for a period of time. It was just a sprain and I've had dozens of them in my life, some not so bad, others worse. This was one of the worst ones.

At another time, I suffered an ankle contusion, which is basically just short of breaking the damn thing. It hurt worse initially but I was actually able to walk on it almost immediately and it didn't even hurt quite as bad as the above-mentioned ankle sprain, even though the underlying injury was technically worse (and I even ended up a day later or so having to walk on crutches for a few days). That all goes to say that the same type of injury even if it's supposedly not as serious as another athlete's injury may effect different people in different ways. It's not an exact science but depends on the person's physiology. It's not necessarily a question of toughness.

The real issue, as lights1961 pointed out, is that he seemed detached from his teammates after coming out of the game, not that he didn't try to play because he actually did play for a bit after the injury occurred.

[Rhiannon]

Look at RHI, bringing it! Love it, welcome to the NFL Thread, sweets.....

Spoiler Alert: Stairway to Seven.

[Rockindeano]

This validates my point of view on the subject.

One can play through without an ACL...just need a brace to hold the knee together so it won't keep "falling out of place." And also, the surgery to remove the meniscus speaks about just how important the meniscus is...not very. The summation here is that the MCL is a motherfucker, the ACL is not absolutely needed, and meniscus is just wasted shit that you don't need.

And I'll say it again, even OG couldn't go with an MCL injury, and we know, JFB included, that OG is the toughest sonofabitch to ever play sports, period.

Akshully, without the meniscus, you couldn't walk. It would be bone grinding on bone.

(I think Cutler should've stayed in, played through the pain. Simply because that's what separates the Joe Montanas from the Jon Kitnas of the world. But we all know Cutler isn't legend material, so let's quit acting surprised he took a pine ride.)

Dr. Rhiannon, please turn in your doctor's license immediately.

I do not have a meniscus. None. Gone. nata. I have bone on bone, thus the reasoning for popping 37 vicodin this morning. Seriously, I got the itch and popped 37 5/500 vicodin. Bone on bone is correct. You can walk, and even play, but it's annoying and eventually painful....but possible.

You are not a doctor. Allegedley, jay asked to go in, and actually did play another series, but Bear doc's said, no" right? not sure on this story.

As for you invoking Joe montana as some toughh guy...to my memory, he wasn't all that tough. IIRC, dude missed the NY Giant playoff game due to some injury and also, I really can't recall Joseph getting hurt much, certainly not like OG does/did. Oh and by the way, John Kitna and Joe Montana are not separated by toughness. One guy went to Notre dame and the other Central Washington. I am guessing john isn't as talented as Joe, but I would be willing to bet wyatt's balls that John is tougher than Joe.

As for Cutler being a legend, Hell no, but he had put up great numbers this year, and oh yeah, his team was what, 12-4/11-5 and a number 2 seed...Dan, don't tell me that Cutler had nothing to do with the Bears record.

[Rhiannon]

yep.. agree with RHI... the biggest issue most people have was he disconnected himself from game... while the 3rd string QB was going over the playbook... where was Cutler trying to help him out??? no where close... me thinks in 20-30 years I could imagine what the saying will be to dads and their young boys... do you want to be a cutler all your life??? I mean what a legacy... and deano... FAVRE would have played through that... hell he would have played the Monday night game that he was blitzed on... and had lights out... but everyone held him back...

R

Exactly. Cutler just isn't "greatness". And lacks the drive to even cultivate that within himself. He's a mediocre quarterback who will be forgotten when his career is over. And Sunday is prime example of why. Simple cut and dry.

[Melissa]

meniscus is just wasted shit that you don't need.

Wrong They cushion bones and help them glide rather than grind and also disburse weight. Just FYI.

[conversationpc]

As for you invoking Joe montana as some toughh guy...to my memory, he wasn't all that tough. IIRC, dude missed the NY Giant playoff game due to some injury and also, I really can't recall Joseph getting hurt much, certainly not like OG does/did. Oh and by the way, John Kitna and Joe Montana are not separated by toughness. One guy went to Notre dame and the other Central Washington. I am guessing john isn't as talented as Joe, but I would be willing to bet wyatt's balls that John is tougher than Joe.

I got to watch Kitna play a bit with the Cowboys this year and I thought he played like a tough guy. I wouldn't claim that he's one of the better QBs to ever grace an NFL field but I wouldn't question his toughness.

[Rhiannon]

Dr. Rhiannon, please turn in your doctor's license immediately.

I do not have a meniscus. None. Gone. nata. I have bone on bone, thus the reasoning for popping 37 vicodin this morning. Seriously, I got the itch and popped 37 5/500 vicodin. Bone on bone is correct. You can walk, and even play, but it's annoying and eventually painful....but possib;e.

I thought they inserted some kind of artificial padding there in the meniscii went? Is yours lateral or medial? I did some basic sports medicine stuff w/ football in HS & briefly in college and I had always heard that once that went it eventually would start grinding down the bone. I'll take your word for it, Moose.

You are not a doctor.

This is true.

Allegedley, jay asked to go in, and actually did play another series, but Bear doc's said, no" right? not sure on this story.

Truth or PR spin? We may never know. All we know is what he didn't do. And that was help Thirdy out there. Which speaks enough. And screw the team doc. He's not nursing bee stings at summer camp. This is got damn FOOTBALL. It's a battlefield. Blood and bones and such!

As for you invoking Joe montana as some toughh guy...to my memory, he wasn't all that tough. IIRC, dude missed the NY Giant playoff game due to some injury and also, I really can't recall Joseph getting hurt much, certainly not like OG does/did. Oh and by the way, John Kitna and Joe Montana are not separated by toughness. One guy went to Notre dame and the other Central Washington. I am guessing john isn't as talented as Joe, but I would be willing to bet wyatt's balls that John is tougher than Joe.

I was pulling random names from categories of great QBs and mediocre QBs. But I do agree Wyatt's tougher.

[Rockindeano]

meniscus is just wasted shit that you don't need.

Wrong They cushion bones and help them glide rather than grind and also disburse weight. Just FYI.

I know MCE, however, in the context of a sports argument, you don't need it, same with cartlidge. Sure they are designed to function and perform a service, but a player can by without it. Trust me jacket, I know all about meniscus and the fact it doesn't exist in my knees. It is a horrible pain that never goes away.