President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Seven Wishes2]

Obama's approach is a MUCH better one than the Every Child Left Behind Act, which was a fucking joke.

You can tear his fiscal policy to shreds all you want, but one thing the Dems are good at is putting the focus on education in a positive light. The left does education like the right does military.

[Angel]

Obama's approach is a MUCH better one than the Every Child Left Behind Act, which was a fucking joke.

I absolutely agree....as long as it's not all just talk....

[Seven Wishes2]

Well, if it's anything like half of what he campaigned on, it's probably hot air.

[Angel]

Well, if it's anything like half of what he campaigned on, it's probably hot air.

That's what I'm afraid of.

[RossValoryRocks]

Obama's approach is a MUCH better one than the Every Child Left Behind Act, which was a fucking joke.

You can tear his fiscal policy to shreds all you want, but one thing the Dems are good at is putting the focus on education in a positive light. The left does education like the right does military.

But NCLB was done by the left...Teddy Kennedy (God rest his soul) was the PRIMARY driver of it. Bush signed on because he thought it was a good idea (and it is) but as with MOST government programs the execution sucks.

[artist4perry]

No offense Deano, I loves you too..........but it is not just a problem of a few bad teachers. It is also a problem with student apathy.
Students are very lazy these days, and don't want to do any work at all, they are too into cell phones and social life. Not to mention we have so many that are just spoiled rotten at home and parents don't care what they do in school as long as they don't bug them.
Parents are growing more into single parent homes where the parents are too overworked and stressed to help students with work.

Many students go home to no food, or no decent home life. Hard to motivate a student who does not know where they will eat or sleep.

Students are raised to be rude, hateful, and disrespectful. These make teaching very difficult because they disrupt classroom learning. The teacher wastes so much time on disciplining the few that the larger student body does not get the full 45 minutes of instruction time.

Poor areas deal with kids that are on the welfare cycle. One student told me she did not need school, she will just grow up, have babies and get her check. This is a vicious cycle for many poor families.

Their own parents don't care if they do well in school. They were school dropouts so why would they expect more from their kids?

Schools across the nation are dealing with these problems. But the government does not take these things into consideration.

It must be all teachers must be stupid and don't want to help these kids. We rack our brains to help these kids.

They are so sick of the tests that they intentionally fail them.....they told us this.

Just wait, you have no idea what is in store. Teachers are going to quit outright, or like me will muddle through the social experiment for the sake of the love of teaching.

Ginger, honestly, if I overheard one of my children's teachers say what you just said, I'd request a new teacher. I know there are students with problems-and a lot of them, but it's not ALL students. I have one child that has graduated from high school, one in high school and two in elementary school. They come home every day to a warm, clean home, a kitchen full of food and two loving parents. I am very involved in their life, I have taught them the value of hard work and I can promise you that none of my children would ever even THINK of making a statement about having babies so the government would support them. My oldest is in college and the three younger children know that college is the expectation. So, if they had teachers that viewed all students as lazy, disrepectful, welfare cases-well, I'm not sure I would trust that that teacher had their best interest in mind.

(Heaven help me for what I'm about to say) I agree with Dean and Obama (cringe) there needs to be a way to make sure the good teachers are more valued and the bad teachers are weeded out.

Think about this, would I really say this because I don't care, or I have not seen it going on? I love these children! I would fight tooth and nail for them. But I am also not blind.
Angel, your children do not live in impoverished areas. No it does not happen in nice neighborhoods, with white picket fences and good parents. But we are dealing with the whole U.S. here. The schools in poor areas deal with 2/3 of the school population below poverty level. It isn't the scores of nice schools with more money. It is happening to the poor kids in bad areas. So is it wrong of me, a teacher in a poor school to say our kids are having real problems to deal with? Angel I am a good teacher and because I care I hate that these kids are not taken into consideration. There are poor kids in bad neighborhoods all over the U.S. These are my babies, and I am afraid they will be set up to fail.

[hoagiepete]

NCLB is a disaster. The problem is that the Federal Government is too far removed from the issues. They have no clue. Staffers living inside the beltway, relying on bureaucracy to maintain their existance, have no idea what is going on at the state and local levels. In other words, they need a large dose of reality.

Teachers must become accountable and the bad ones expendable. NEA should be damned. They should focus on protecting the good professionals. Deano is correct. They are a major reason our education system is fucked up.

Having said that, teachers have it tough these days as parental support has deteriorated. Home life is horrible for millions of students and without support at home, even the best teachers are challenged and may not succeed. However, don't tell me there aren't bad teachers, because there are many. We have a great school, but it is obvious when you have a poor teacher.

There's a lot screwed up. Much is because of "kingdoms" established by the unions and teachers. I work in Career and Tech Ed issues daily. Countless students can't learn math out of a book in a classroom, but put in another situation, they thrive. I've witnessed this first hand. Students flunking out until they find something they can succeed in. How many students are learning complex math in a construction class? Figuring volume of air flow, volume and mixtures of a concrete pour, computing angles for bending metal, laying out a foundation, square footage of materials, etc. They do it without realizing it and then are able to carry back to the classroom a newfound ability.

It's time math teachers learn how to teach to all students or allow other teachers to teach math. That's the tip of the iceberg.

[artist4perry]

Other countries are kicking our butts in education.........why? Because their focus is education to get ahead. Our kids are not caring. Very few do anymore.

So in other countries, the board of education doesnt get the teachers involved but rather invites the KIDS in and tells them : you need to care cause we need to get ahead ???
Nice way to try to put the blame on parents and kids. If Parents are 100% involved and the kid is full of desire to learn, it dont mean shit
if the teacher isnt a good teacher. Now you have a GOOD teacher and even if half the class is "not caring" a good teacher can turn it around.
We do need better teachers to help the kids that arent caring. If it was easy anybody could do it , duh
I hate to agree with Natalie(cringe) but if you were my kids teacher, Id switch to a different SCHOOL!

Thanks B................And because you did not get what I was saying I will say I am sorry that is the way I come across. I want to tell you I care deeply and I am jumping through hoops to help.

I do care..........so much I worry all the time for the kids in our school. It is not like I would not do almost anything to help! Do you really look at me as a bad teacher? I am just showing you guys what we deal with every day. There is a great deal of apathy with students who live in poverty. They really struggle to want to do much more than their parents did. We try to open their possibilities, and help them see there is so much more through education that they can achieve.

I am not saying we cannot learn all there is to learn to help them. I am willing. I am ready to do what needs to be done. But I do see things that have to change to help kids who are apathetic, and see no way out of their environment. We do what we can.

[artist4perry]

I want to apologize for one thing. I was not referring to all children or all schools. And I know there are bad teachers. I am just saying we deal with hurdles that are more prevalent than they were when we were growing up. I feel like I through what I wrote left a misinterpretation of my feelings as a teacher. I want you to know that we are trying our best to solve the issues in poor neighborhoods as best we can with what we can do. But in impoverished areas, we see more apathy towards education. Gangs, drug dealers, and hopelessness are our enemies. I am not giving up, and I will do what I can. It is a challenge for me every day.

I am sorry if I gave the impression that I don't care and I blame only the parents and kids. I was trying to say that we need to help these kids environments as well. Yes we need to weed out the bad teachers.

I am sorry I made you feel I might be one of them.

[Lula]

as a teacher finishing up my 8th year i've seen several problems, have found solutions, and just keep trying. teachers absolutely should be held accountable. as should the entire team in educating our children. teachers should not be responsible for supplying materials to students and mopping their classroom floors, but if i want it done i have to do it. budget cuts hurt. my dept raised test scores for our population and received nothing. whatever. i'm perfectly fine with teacher accountability and ecourage it, however, let's be sure to support our teachers and give them what is needed to get the job done. mopping my floor instead of lesson planning or writing my reports does not make for a productive day.

the school board, administration, school staff, parents, students, and teachers are all responsible for student success.

[strangegrey]

Obama's approach is a MUCH better one than the Every Child Left Behind Act, which was a fucking joke.

You can tear his fiscal policy to shreds all you want, but one thing the Dems are good at is putting the focus on education in a positive light. The left does education like the right does military.

But NCLB was done by the left...Teddy Kennedy (God rest his soul) was the PRIMARY driver of it. Bush signed on because he thought it was a good idea (and it is) but as with MOST government programs the execution sucks.

Sorry Stu, I respectfully disagree (and also throw out a 'How the fuck you been, brother!'),

the idea was dogshit, because the execution would never allow for it to be a success. You don't give someone an exit with failure being an option...ever. To do that ensures success is never achieved. That's the greatest accomplishment of of NCLB....ensuring that failure gets rewarded, yearly!

[Angel]

I want to apologize for one thing. I was not referring to all children or all schools. And I know there are bad teachers. I am just saying we deal with hurdles that are more prevalent than they were when we were growing up. I feel like I through what I wrote left a misinterpretation of my feelings as a teacher. I want you to know that we are trying our best to solve the issues in poor neighborhoods as best we can with what we can do. But in impoverished areas, we see more apathy towards education. Gangs, drug dealers, and hopelessness are our enemies. I am not giving up, and I will do what I can. It is a challenge for me every day.

I am sorry if I gave the impression that I don't care and I blame only the parents and kids. I was trying to say that we need to help these kids environments as well. Yes we need to weed out the bad teachers.

I am sorry I made you feel I might be one of them.

I don't think you're a bad teacher, and I know that there are serious problems in schools. The school my kids attend have students of all socioeconomic statuses from the super rich to the dirt poor. My sister is a high school teacher, my brother in law is an elementary school teacher and my brother is a middle school principal so I have some understanding of what you face as a teacher. Our schools are facing the same financial problems as every school in the country-they don't have enough money for more than one set of classroom books for the children-they don't even have the money to send paper report cards home with the students. There are NO printed materials for classes-nearly all elective courses have been cut and the newest "solution" is that all high school seniors must take two internet courses to graduate. They are even taking away classes like history because they are not viewed as "essential."

Classrooms have a set of books and a few CD-ROMs as well as access to a website with a copy of the book (but nothing can be printed from the website) for the students to use to complete homework. Some students don't have computers at home and some have computers but no internet. Because of this, students that have access to internet at home are encouraged to leave the books and CD-ROMs for the students that don't have internet at home. A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids. So, when I hear you say that all students and parents are lazy and that's the reason education has gone down the drain-well, it's offensive to me. I KNOW without a doubt that this is a problem-there are PLENTY of lazy students out there and PLENTY of terrible parents-but there are also a lot of good kids that do want to learn and chances are they are just as frustrated. So I hope you can see how it would be frustrating to me to hear a teacher say that ALL students are lazy, welfare cases as if to say "why bother?"

[Lula]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

[Angel]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

It was threats of that that finally got her to change her mind and let he students turn in the homework-for full credit.

I have been trying to order my son his own textbook-that I'm more than willing to pay for myself. But when I brought it up to the teacher I got all kinds of resistance. I almost feel like they WANT the kids to fail or at least do very poorly so they can say "see, all these budget cuts are making students fail." I mean I KNOW it has to be frustrating, teachers aren't paid what they should be paid, they don't have the resources they need but it's sad when it feels like they are intentionally trying to fail the kids to prove a point. I really wish private school was an option but around here the only "private" options we have are charter schools and they are no better than the public schools.

[Rockindeano]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

Why? What did the teacher do wrong? Are you telling me that if you can't access the website, there isn't an alternative way of completing one's homework? Maybe I don't have all the facts here, but I seem to recall doing MY homework in ALL subjects without the assistance, errr, complete doing of the homework, by an internet website.

In real life, if you are at work, and your calculator goes out, can you not add or subtract mathematical numbers by pen and paper? Can you not drive from A to B without a GPS? I guess looking at a map is ridiculous in today's world?

My point is that automation is great, but it is being relied upon 100% and that is not a smart situation. Automation should be a privelidge, not a crutch.

[Angel]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

Why? What did the teacher do wrong? Are you telling me that if you can't access the website, there isn't an alternative way of completing one's homework? Maybe I don't have all the facts here, but I seem to recall doing MY homework in ALL subjects without the assistance, errr, complete doing of the homework, by an internet website.

In real life, if you are at work, and your calculator goes out, can you not add or subtract mathematical numbers by pen and paper? Can you not drive from A to B without a GPS? I guess looking at a map is ridiculous in today's world?

My point is that automation is great, but it is being relied upon 100% and that is not a smart situation. Automation should be a privelidge, not a crutch.

Dean, what I'm saying is he didn't even have access to the homework...he didn't have the problems that he was supposed to do-they are on the website-the books and CD-ROMs that the school has are reserved for those that don't have access to the internet. You wouldn't expected to do your math homework if you didn't have the book or the problems that you were supposed to complete.

[Rockindeano]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

It was threats of that that finally got her to change her mind and let he students turn in the homework-for full credit.

I have been trying to order my son his own textbook-that I'm more than willing to pay for myself. But when I brought it up to the teacher I got all kinds of resistance. I almost feel like they WANT the kids to fail or at least do very poorly so they can say "see, all these budget cuts are making students fail." I mean I KNOW it has to be frustrating, teachers aren't paid what they should be paid, they don't have the resources they need but it's sad when it feels like they are intentionally trying to fail the kids to prove a point. I really wish private school was an option but around here the only "private" options we have are charter schools and they are no better than the public schools.

This may piss Lula off, but, teachers aren't paid what they should be? Excuse me? They make a decent living, very decent living, and they only work 7-8 months per year and receive full benefits. Look, I am on teacher's side, and Lula is an excellent teacher; one who prepares, goes to work everyday, is productive at work, and cares deeply about her job and most of all her kids. I would hire her without second thought, however, a teacher, makes a nice living. In California, a starting teacher salary checks in at 35,700...not bad and the AVERAGE salary is 60K. I wouldn't call that a bad salary, especially with benefits added in. Ginger, in Arkansas, you start out at 27K and the average is 42,700. I am not saying teachers are rich or live exceptionally comfortable lives, as Lula goes into the inner city of LA and has to deal with all the problems there. I think that is amazing, what she does, but you also have to remember, thatteacher's have a choice on whether or not to well, be a teacher. I can speak about Lula because I know here, but if all the teachers in the US were as good as she, there would be no need for private school. I can speak proudly of her and her will to be a great teacher.

[Rockindeano]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

Why? What did the teacher do wrong? Are you telling me that if you can't access the website, there isn't an alternative way of completing one's homework? Maybe I don't have all the facts here, but I seem to recall doing MY homework in ALL subjects without the assistance, errr, complete doing of the homework, by an internet website.

In real life, if you are at work, and your calculator goes out, can you not add or subtract mathematical numbers by pen and paper? Can you not drive from A to B without a GPS? I guess looking at a map is ridiculous in today's world?

My point is that automation is great, but it is being relied upon 100% and that is not a smart situation. Automation should be a privelidge, not a crutch.

Dean, what I'm saying is he didn't even have access to the homework...he didn't have the problems that he was supposed to do-they are on the website-the books and CD-ROMs that the school has are reserved for those that don't have access to the internet. You wouldn't expected to do your math homework if you didn't have the book or the problems that you were supposed to complete.

Yeah, like I said, I thought I was missing out on some of the information. While I think it is great to incorporate the internet(to assign homework and the like), my point was that it is not wise to completely rely on the computer.

As to your situation, I would have called other parents and then as a group went to the principal. That is just ridiculous.

[artist4perry]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

That is not cool! This teacher is asking her students to do the impossible. Our schools struggle with bandwidth problems all the time! And they want to go completely to computers for all testing? They tout a computer in every room. To tell the truth, mine does not work half the time and is so slow I cannot rely on it. I just don't see it being affordable. It would be nice, but we cannot get decent tech. now.

That teacher is one that needs to be replaced. I don't see asking students what you cannot accomplish in a reasonable fashion. I don't make my students do out of class assignments......why? I know most of my students have no computer access at home. I also know that they have plenty of work to do in math and English. I try to make it where students can do all their work in class. I break terms down where they can understand them, and repeat these terms so they are common in class assignments. I realize we have teachers who don't give a rip. But I am not one of them. I get frustrated when the key to their success, is taken from my hands.

[artist4perry]

" A couple of weeks ago my son tried to do his homework in math by accessing the website. The website was down. He tried every 15-30 minutes to get on the website from an hour after school until nearly 11 pm. I finally had to MAKE him go to bed. He got up the next morning and the website was still down. He was so stressed out about not being able to do his homework that he was sick. He got to school and told the teacher that he couldn't access the website-several other students told her the same-and she even said she herself tried to access the website and was unable to. The students asked what they should do and her reply was "it's not my problem, it's your problem, you are expected to find a way to finish your homework" and gave those students all a zero for that assignment. It took all kinds of kicking and screaming to get her to allow the students to turn in the work late. I know she is frustrated at budget cuts but she does not need to take it out on the kids."

that is wrong on so many levels. you need to report this teacher to the department of education in your state.

It was threats of that that finally got her to change her mind and let he students turn in the homework-for full credit.

I have been trying to order my son his own textbook-that I'm more than willing to pay for myself. But when I brought it up to the teacher I got all kinds of resistance. I almost feel like they WANT the kids to fail or at least do very poorly so they can say "see, all these budget cuts are making students fail." I mean I KNOW it has to be frustrating, teachers aren't paid what they should be paid, they don't have the resources they need but it's sad when it feels like they are intentionally trying to fail the kids to prove a point. I really wish private school was an option but around here the only "private" options we have are charter schools and they are no better than the public schools.

This may piss Lula off, but, teachers aren't paid what they should be? Excuse me? They make a decent living, very decent living, and they only work 7-8 months per year and receive full benefits. Look, I am on teacher's side, and Lula is an excellent teacher; one who prepares, goes to work everyday, is productive at work, and cares deeply about her job and most of all her kids. I would hire her without second thought, however, a teacher, makes a nice living. In California, a starting teacher salary checks in at 35,700...not bad and the AVERAGE salary is 60K. I wouldn't call that a bad salary, especially with benefits added in. Ginger, in Arkansas, you start out at 27K and the average is 42,700. I am not saying teachers are rich or live exceptionally comfortable lives, as Lula goes into the inner city of LA and has to deal with all the problems there. I think that is amazing, what she does, but you also have to remember, thatteacher's have a choice on whether or not to well, be a teacher. I can speak about Lula because I know here, but if all the teachers in the US were as good as she, there would be no need for private school. I can speak proudly of her and her will to be a great teacher.

I have to disagree on the pay thing Deano. We work as hard as anyone with a 4 year degree.......yes we only work 9 months, but our pay is only for 9 months, it is just stretched out over 12. People get a misconception that we get paid for 12. I make 31,000 a year. And I spend 400 dollars a month in gas. 31,000 divide by 12 and see what you get a month. Before deductions. It is decent. But for what we are asked to accomplish it would be nicer to make more. I am still glad to teach. I did not become a teacher to get rich, but we entrust teachers to care for our children and give them a good education, many times the things we need to teach, pencils, paper, and supplies...........come out of our own pockets. That is the stuff most people don't know. It is still the best job in the world to me, I get to share what I know with young people.......I get to share what I love, and hopefully leave a seed of knowledge that might grow.

[S2M]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

[Melissa]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

[conversationpc]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No, auto insurance is to protect the other guy and his car, you can choose to protect yourself or car if you want.

Not only that but it takes constitutionally-given power away from the states. States like Massachusetts are allowed to enact this type of healthcare mandate within their own state if I understand the law correctly but the federal government cannot. That's also the way it works with car insurance.

[Melissa]

you can choose to protect yourself

Exactly, and IMO, if someone chooses to have an $800 fancy SUV payment rather than paying say $400 a month for family health insurance, then that person has no business bitching about what healthcare or health insurance costs.

[Behshad]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

[Memorex]

you can choose to protect yourself

Exactly, and IMO, if someone chooses to have an $800 fancy SUV payment rather than paying say $400 a month for family health insurance, then that person has no business bitching about what healthcare or health insurance costs.

Well, that person probably doesn't complain.

[Melissa]

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

Hmm, well here you have to carry a minimum PIP. Which is the way it should be.

And here's the thing... you can elect NOT to have a car, and therefore elect NOT to have car insurance. You can't elect NOT to live Well actually I guess you could, but that's also illegal

Sorry I just think the car insurance comparison that people keep bringing up is weak.

[Memorex]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

The difference is that driving is a privilege, not a right. Well, some think it is a right, but for the purposes of this conversation, it's not considered a right. And so being a privilege, states can therefore regulate it. Living, on the other hand, and how one cares for oneself is a right.

I think the idea behind forced car insurance is simply to protect the value of other property when you are at fault. While it may help keep costs down, I don;t think that was the overriding intention. With the health care law, they are saying that poor people cannot participate unless every middle class to rich person also participated. Saying that Bob must have insurance to cover damage he does to Jim's property is very different than saying Bob must carry insurance to cover his own health so that Jim can enjoy lower rates.

[Rockindeano]

Oh don't all you selfish Cons celebrate just yet. this is far from over. This was decided in the most conservative city in the country by a conservative judge. It is headed for the US Supreme Court.

Attorneys for the administration had argued that the states did not have standing to challenge the law and that the case should be dismissed.

The final step will almost certainly be the U.S. Supreme Court. Two other federal judges have already upheld the law and a federal judge in Virginia ruled the insurance mandate unconstitutional but stopped short of voiding the entire thing.

At issue was whether the government is reaching beyond its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce by requiring citizens to purchase health insurance or face tax penalties.

[Behshad]

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

Hmm, well here you have to carry a minimum PIP. Which is the way it should be.

And here's the thing... you can elect NOT to have a car, and therefore elect NOT to have car insurance. You can't elect NOT to live Well actually I guess you could, but that's also illegal

Sorry I just think the car insurance comparison that people keep bringing up is weak.

Well we werent talkin about LIFE insurance, but HEALTH insurance if you wanna be that technical
And in a country like US, you HAVE to have a car ! Our public transportation system sucks a monkeys balls......

The comparision is still a perfect one... If the law can FORCE you to carry ANY kind of insurance then it shouldnt matter if its auto or health or even life