President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Behshad]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

Oh good god, you should change your screenname to Devils Advocate.

You are required to carry insurance to protect the other guy not yourself, that is a huge difference. I bet you don't see the difference, do you?

The whole point is, you are BY LAW FORCED to carry insurance ! Can you understand that point ?

[Melissa]

Well we werent talkin about LIFE insurance, but HEALTH insurance if you wanna be that technical
And in a country like US, you HAVE to have a car ! Our public transportation system sucks a monkeys balls......

The comparision is still a perfect one... If the law can FORCE you to carry ANY kind of insurance then it shouldnt matter if its auto or health or even life

I agree public transportation is horrible, but having a car is still a privilege, and wrecks DO hurt other people's cars and injure people too, so I still agree that should be mandatory.

[Melissa]

you can choose to protect yourself

Exactly, and IMO, if someone chooses to have an $800 fancy SUV payment rather than paying say $400 a month for family health insurance, then that person has no business bitching about what healthcare or health insurance costs.

Well, that person probably doesn't complain.

Oh yes they do

[conversationpc]

The whole point is, you are BY LAW FORCED to carry insurance ! Can you understand that point ?

That's the mandate of individual states, though, not the federal government.

[Lula]

as private insurance holders and tax payers we are paying for those not insured. our premiums are higher to cover costs and give the insurance companies insane profits. we are a capitalistic society, there should be competition in the for profit health care market. a government option would be good and people making a certain amount of money should have health care, at least a policy for catastrophic stuff. i'm not a big mandate kinda gal, but i'm tired of welfare, free shit, and people not paying their fair share. we are a dying middle class and without us we will be another fucked up haves and haves not society. i'm just sick of all this shit!

[Memorex]

you can choose to protect yourself

Exactly, and IMO, if someone chooses to have an $800 fancy SUV payment rather than paying say $400 a month for family health insurance, then that person has no business bitching about what healthcare or health insurance costs.

Well, that person probably doesn't complain.

Oh yes they do

Well, agreed then. There were a few times in my life I had to go without insurance. I didn't have a nice car or anything. Life was rough. I had to pay cash for my 5th and 6th kids delivery. Brutal. But I did not complain. That was just my circumstance and the choice i had to make. Of course if I could not come up with the cash, I know my kids would have been born safely anyway. Now I pay ungodly sums of money for family insurance. Just went up $120 a month with no added benefit. Fun.

[Behshad]

Well we werent talkin about LIFE insurance, but HEALTH insurance if you wanna be that technical
And in a country like US, you HAVE to have a car ! Our public transportation system sucks a monkeys balls......

The comparision is still a perfect one... If the law can FORCE you to carry ANY kind of insurance then it shouldnt matter if its auto or health or even life

I agree public transportation is horrible, but having a car is still a privilege, and wrecks DO hurt other people's cars and injure people too, so I still agree that should be mandatory.

Having a car isnt a privlege, its a necessity to get around, to get back and forth to work.

[Behshad]

The whole point is, you are BY LAW FORCED to carry insurance ! Can you understand that point ?

That's the mandate of individual states, though, not the federal government.

ding ding ding!

49 out of 50 states MANDATE Auto insurance. its the law,, state law,, federal law,, who cares,, you get penalized if you dont obey the law regardless of who passed it

[Melissa]

Well we werent talkin about LIFE insurance, but HEALTH insurance if you wanna be that technical
And in a country like US, you HAVE to have a car ! Our public transportation system sucks a monkeys balls......

The comparision is still a perfect one... If the law can FORCE you to carry ANY kind of insurance then it shouldnt matter if its auto or health or even life

I agree public transportation is horrible, but having a car is still a privilege, and wrecks DO hurt other people's cars and injure people too, so I still agree that should be mandatory.

Having a car isnt a privlege, its a necessity to get around, to get back and forth to work.

But according to the government, yes it IS a privilege, as is your driver's license.

[Behshad]

Well we werent talkin about LIFE insurance, but HEALTH insurance if you wanna be that technical
And in a country like US, you HAVE to have a car ! Our public transportation system sucks a monkeys balls......

The comparision is still a perfect one... If the law can FORCE you to carry ANY kind of insurance then it shouldnt matter if its auto or health or even life

I agree public transportation is horrible, but having a car is still a privilege, and wrecks DO hurt other people's cars and injure people too, so I still agree that should be mandatory.

Having a car isnt a privlege, its a necessity to get around, to get back and forth to work.

He says...., as I look out my window and see my neighbor Jerry walking home from the bus stop like he's done every weekday for at least 15 years....yes, I'm in the burbs to, not anywhere near downtown where Jerry works. Yer funny B.

Ah BUS STOP !!! Did you read where I mentioned who our public transportation system sucks !??

Id like to see Jerry live where I live and walk a nice 15 miles a day in rain snow and sleet.... yup if car is a privelege , so is life !

[RossValoryRocks]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

Driving is NOT a right...it is a privilege...taking care of your health (or NOT) is right, part of privilege of driving is having insurance to take care of the other person if you sideswipe them...

[Melissa]

Id like to see Jerry live where I live and walk a nice 15 miles a day in rain snow and sleet....

You forgot "uphill both ways"

[RossValoryRocks]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

[Lula]

as private insurance holders and tax payers we are paying for those not insured. our premiums are higher to cover costs and give the insurance companies insane profits. we are a capitalistic society, there should be competition in the for profit health care market. a government option would be good and people making a certain amount of money should have health care, at least a policy for catastrophic stuff. i'm not a big mandate kinda gal, but i'm tired of welfare, free shit, and people not paying their fair share. we are a dying middle class and without us we will be another fucked up haves and haves not society. i'm just sick of all this shit!

You lost me at the "insane profits" part.....think Katrina.

i'm slow today, not unlike any other day lol, but profits and katrina? huh?

insurance ccompanies make a hefty profit, they are a business and exist to make a buck. i don't think the health care of our citizens should be a for profit business.

[Memorex]

The whole point is, you are BY LAW FORCED to carry insurance ! Can you understand that point ?

That's the mandate of individual states, though, not the federal government.

ding ding ding!

49 out of 50 states MANDATE Auto insurance. its the law,, state law,, federal law,, who cares,, you get penalized if you dont obey the law regardless of who passed it

In order to say they are the same, they have to be the same. They are not the same, so simply saying they are the same is simplifying it. I'm not saying whether or not Health insurance should be mandatory, but you should know that no one, not the administration or anyone is making the argument that it's the same as car insurance. It's not.

Driving is not a right. Driving on public streets is not a right. Therefore, the states have leverage to regulate it based on the good of the majority. They are not forcing you to buy car insurance. They are only saying it is a requirement IF you choose to drive.

To compare the two, you would have to say the states make you buy car insurance even if you don't drive or don't own a car. Then it would be the same.

With health care, the current plan is saying that you cannot choose to pay cash for your services. You cannot opt out of insurance without a stiff penalty. That is not true with car insurance or anything else I can think of.

This sets a precedent for congress' ability to mandate what people must purchase. So this is absolutely a supreme court case. It's the first time this has ever been done in our history. So the highest court in the land must weigh in.

[Behshad]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

Read above Stuie,,, for as long as they dont provide me with a functional public transportation system, I consider having a car as my right to be able to work and support the same family that I have to provide health care insurance for

[Memorex]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

Read above Stuie,,, for as long as they dont provide me with a functional public transportation system, I consider having a car as my right to be able to work and support the same family that I have to provide health care insurance for

So should every american be forced to buy a car to drive prices down so the poor can afford cars?

[RossValoryRocks]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

Read above Stuie,,, for as long as they dont provide me with a functional public transportation system, I consider having a car as my right to be able to work and support the same family that I have to provide health care insurance for

No No...you have the right to OWN the car...not the right to drive it. Funny as that sounds.

Many people have gone to court to argue thay driving is a right...and lost( I will find you the case law if you like)...you have the right to freedom of movement...that's it, no matter WHAT you consider your rights to be.

The correct government position is that a) you have transportation...your legs...and everything else (Ok a bike or horse might be ok) is NOT a right.

I consider it my right to keep 100% of my paycheck...but we all know how that works don't we?

Now I am off to work part 2, so I can pay my car insurance and taxes! Ciao!

[Behshad]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

Read above Stuie,,, for as long as they dont provide me with a functional public transportation system, I consider having a car as my right to be able to work and support the same family that I have to provide health care insurance for

So should every american be forced to buy a car to drive prices down so the poor can afford cars?

Now youre talkin!!!

Last I checked youre not forced to buy anything that is part of your rights though You are forced to buy insurance on the car and it still doesnt help drive the prices down. Insurance (auto or health) in this country is all fucked up , because instead of being there to help and protect people, theyre there for insurance companies to make profit!

[Memorex]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

Read above Stuie,,, for as long as they dont provide me with a functional public transportation system, I consider having a car as my right to be able to work and support the same family that I have to provide health care insurance for

No No...you have the right to OWN the car...not the right to drive it. Funny as that sounds.

Many people have gone to court to argue thay driving is a right...and lost( I will find you the case law if you like)...you have the right to freedom of movement...that's it, no matter WHAT you consider your rights to be.

I consider it my right to keep 100% of my paycheck...but we all know how that works don't we?

What I hate is that I have to keep paying to register my car, the same car I registered last year and the year before, etc. And I have to keep paying to get a new license when I have a perfectly good one in my wallet. That drives me crazy. I don't get the concept. I already paid taxes when I bought the car, and I pay state taxes each week for upkeep on the roads (though I live in the most pot-holed state). So why do I have to pay hundreds of dollars every year? Please don't answer - there is no answer.

[Memorex]

I think insurance reform should have started with technology and efficiency. In recent years, I had the chore of evaluating a hospital and their technology and processes. Oh my God - it amazed me that people were actually taken care of there with all the BS paperwork and wasted steps that had to be taken by Doctors and staff. Truly an eye opener. Insurance companies make profit, but they also have huge volumes of waste. Clean up waste and fraud and I think you are 90% there.

[Behshad]

Not to change the subject but........


Federal Judge in Florida Rules Individual Mandate is Unconstitutional


Published : Monday, 31 Jan 2011, 3:07 PM EST

- A Florida federal judge ruled Monday in a 26-state challenge to the national health care law that the provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance by 2014 or suffer a penalty is unconstitutional.

Well then....it should also be unconstitutional to require individuals to purchase auto insurance as well....

No see that's not the same. Because if you get hit by someone and they damage YOUR car or hurt YOU, then they should have to have insurance to pay for that.

Not everyone carries an auto insurance that protects both parties, regardless of who was at fault, so thats not what we're talkin about.
His point is valid. BY LAW, you are REQUIRED to carry insurance. and that itself should be unconstitutional !

No it isn't...a) the Federal Government doesn't have the power to make you buy car insurance, the STATES do because B) Driving a car isn't a right.

Read above Stuie,,, for as long as they dont provide me with a functional public transportation system, I consider having a car as my right to be able to work and support the same family that I have to provide health care insurance for

So should every american be forced to buy a car to drive prices down so the poor can afford cars?

Now youre talkin!!!

Last I checked youre not forced to buy anything that is part of your rights though You are forced to buy insurance on the car and it still doesnt help drive the prices down. Insurance (auto or health) in this country is all fucked up , because instead of being there to help and protect people, theyre there for insurance companies to make profit!

Now you're just being a blithering idiototic Devils Advocate....and Lula, Katrina used up a great big chunk of Insurance Company profits to the point of some nearly going out of business, which I take it you and B would like.

Hey as long as youre ok with Insurance companies being huge profit center (right along with hospitals) then by all mean, cough up the insurance money and ENJOY

who&B? B&B?

[Behshad]

Behshad, I'm prefectly fine with Insurance Cos making a profit, same as you when you make that trek to work every week, what is it you call that net pay at the end of the week.....hmmmmm....B's profit....yeah that's it.....shame on you...lula too...I think you guys make insane profits and I want some of it for myself.

OK let me rephrase that, HUGE profits...
Its not really the (health)insurance companies profit as much as Hospitals "equipment", such as X-ray and MRI machines, and the HUGE profits they make over it that Im against

[Behshad]

Behshad, I'm prefectly fine with Insurance Cos making a profit, same as you when you make that trek to work every week, what is it you call that net pay at the end of the week.....hmmmmm....B's profit....yeah that's it.....shame on you...lula too...I think you guys make insane profits and I want some of it for myself.

OK let me rephrase that, HUGE profits...
Its not really the (health)insurance companies profit as much as Hospitals "equipment", such as X-ray and MRI machines, and the HUGE profits they make over it that Im against

Then just make sure that when you or a loved one is sick you take them to a non-profit hospital, they're all over the country. I'm sure you can reach one in your insured car.

So you dont see ANYTHING wrong with our healthcare system ??? No wonder you were worried about things goin on down in Egypt since your in denial

[Memorex]

Behshad, I'm prefectly fine with Insurance Cos making a profit, same as you when you make that trek to work every week, what is it you call that net pay at the end of the week.....hmmmmm....B's profit....yeah that's it.....shame on you...lula too...I think you guys make insane profits and I want some of it for myself.

OK let me rephrase that, HUGE profits...
Its not really the (health)insurance companies profit as much as Hospitals "equipment", such as X-ray and MRI machines, and the HUGE profits they make over it that Im against

I'm on the fence on profits. In our country, you are allowed to make whatever profits you want. But for essentials (oil, insurance, food) maybe there ought to be some determination. Not sure. Anyway, each has a case for making profit. Oil companies explore and invest in future energy. The alternative is a risk of running out which would cause much more harm than profits. In the case of insurance companies, the only way to survive over time is to profit and build reserves. The reason companies like Allstate and State Farm can walk around New Orleans and write checks on the spot is because they have the reserves and resources. If they lowered rates and profit, they may not be able to handle disasters appropriately. And disasters never get cheaper as time goes on. So it's kind of a weird thing.

Imagine if the teachers unions were allowed to sell something and stockpiled the profits. While people may complain, they would likely have the money to pay all the promised contracts and retirement plans. But they didn't profit and are now on the brink of collapse. Maybe that's a stretch, but it seems like a logical comparison. Plus - the more profitable, the more people would invest.

[S2M]

Look, and I can't believe I'm saying this.....as long as when I need to put in a claim my insurance company honors it, and pays what is owed - I couldn't care less how much money they are making. a great majority of people are overinsured(double and triple insured) and they don't even know it. This is where it begins to be a problem.

[Behshad]

Behshad, I'm prefectly fine with Insurance Cos making a profit, same as you when you make that trek to work every week, what is it you call that net pay at the end of the week.....hmmmmm....B's profit....yeah that's it.....shame on you...lula too...I think you guys make insane profits and I want some of it for myself.

OK let me rephrase that, HUGE profits...
Its not really the (health)insurance companies profit as much as Hospitals "equipment", such as X-ray and MRI machines, and the HUGE profits they make over it that Im against

Then just make sure that when you or a loved one is sick you take them to a non-profit hospital, they're all over the country. I'm sure you can reach one in your insured car.

So you dont see ANYTHING wrong with our healthcare system ??? No wonder you were worried about things goin on down in Egypt since your in denial

Dude, I am 50 years old, my whole life whenever I've been sick, or a family members been sick, we've simply called the Docs office, made an appointment or in some cases gotten seen right away if Doc thought necessary, and ta-da, health has returned within 24 to 36 hours with the proper meds. I don't see a problem, but then I've been responsible and carried Insurance at considerable cost to myself to make it that way. If this dumb right wing whacko can do it so can everyone else.

Hell, my first two kids, believe it or not cost me $20 to have. $10 each. That was for the phone in the room and maybe the TV, can't remember. That was before cell phones existed.

Ah , and that cost wouldve been LOWER, if they would lower the prices on things like the equipments I mentioned earlier
Nothing wrong with our technology and our advance in medicine,,, but our healthcare system NEEDS reformed.
I would GLADLY pay 1/3 of my paycheck towards taxes, if it meant free healthcare,,, Ive seen it done and done right. But it wont work here in US... socialism isnt the answer,, we just need to find a solution that works best for ALL , specially the PEOPLE

[Memorex]

Behshad, I'm prefectly fine with Insurance Cos making a profit, same as you when you make that trek to work every week, what is it you call that net pay at the end of the week.....hmmmmm....B's profit....yeah that's it.....shame on you...lula too...I think you guys make insane profits and I want some of it for myself.

OK let me rephrase that, HUGE profits...
Its not really the (health)insurance companies profit as much as Hospitals "equipment", such as X-ray and MRI machines, and the HUGE profits they make over it that Im against

Then just make sure that when you or a loved one is sick you take them to a non-profit hospital, they're all over the country. I'm sure you can reach one in your insured car.

So you dont see ANYTHING wrong with our healthcare system ??? No wonder you were worried about things goin on down in Egypt since your in denial

Dude, I am 50 years old, my whole life whenever I've been sick, or a family members been sick, we've simply called the Docs office, made an appointment or in some cases gotten seen right away if Doc thought necessary, and ta-da, health has returned within 24 to 36 hours with the proper meds. I don't see a problem, but then I've been responsible and carried Insurance at considerable cost to myself to make it that way. If this dumb right wing whacko can do it so can everyone else.

Hell, my first two kids, believe it or not cost me $20 to have. $10 each. That was for the phone in the room and maybe the TV, can't remember. That was before cell phones existed.

This is the problem though - the system works for you and anyone that can afford to pay for the high cost of insurance. This is not true for millions of people who have not been as fortunate as you. On the flip side, your high cost of insurance is also due to many people abusing the system, which I submit does not work for you - you have just come to accept it.

We should not accept a system that excludes millions of Americans and causes others to overpay. This system is broke. It must be fixed. I prefer a step by step approach though.

[Memorex]

It's like they say, the first pill costs $100,000,000 to make, the rest are cheap. Those equipment prices have to support hundreds of tech employees and future investment in new technology. They have to turn a profit to attract investors in order to hire more people and build new things. Investing in future technologies is about the most expensive thing you can do.

[Behshad]

I would GLADLY pay 1/3 of my paycheck towards taxes, if it meant free healthcare

Hate to tell ya this bro but you're paying close to 50% right fucking now and probably don't even realise it.

Ive seen it done and done right.

This wasn't in Europe was it?

oh you gonna show us your calculation of the sales tax etc ?

Yes it was in Europe and it works.