Tonight's the night

[kgdjpubs]

Just curious...
Seen in here that you are a Gotthard fan.
Can't say I have ever really listened to them so
I really don't have an opinion but I know that they
recently lost their singer to a tragic accident...

for what it's worth, think post-New Jersey Bon Jovi with a singer who could cover Led Zeppelin without missing a beat. Very good band who has done everything from very lightweight pop-rock to hard rock and everything in between. It will be very difficult to replace Steve Lee, but with the popularity, I'm only halfway surprised that they are going to try. Any band that is selling out 20,000 seat stadiums has a lot of financial reasons to want to continue.

[DrFU]

I've been thinking for a lone word that would describe why I don't care for 4 out of the 5 songs....and I came up with: plodding. The songs literally plod along with no discernable direction, or purpose....it is more than just a ambient, full-sounding, sonic realization. Plodding and boring. More plodding though. Listless maybe...no energy other than Deen pounding skins, and Neal wanking off on his axe....I'm being serious, not trying to be funny.

I can't believe I'm saying this....but I know what you mean And maybe live, it's different. And on the cd more so. Which is why I won't be too critical of YouTube clips. I just wish his face had more emotion? There is something lacking in what I'm seeing and hearing...but I don't know what it is, but maybe it's like what youre saying. It's like the lack of "hooks" thing maybe.

Live, "Resonate" struck me as a great, intense make-out song. Somewhere, somebody's going to get lucky while playing it.

I think the couple in front of me already did.

[Rip Rokken]

I'm now on my quest for premium Filipino food in hopes of making my transformation complete.

Just stay away from the Asocena. I've had it and it's not all that great.

If you have a sweet tooth, Goldilocks or Red Ribbon should do the trick.I'm sure they have franchises in Vegas.

Amazing... Goldilocks is exactly where we ate. I'd been to the one in CA before, and this one was smaller, but equally as good. I believe I saw a Red Ribbon in the seafood market we checked out, right next to a Jolibees! Had no clue there were any in the U.S. -- the only one I've seen was in Manila.

[StevePerryHair]

I've been thinking for a lone word that would describe why I don't care for 4 out of the 5 songs....and I came up with: plodding. The songs literally plod along with no discernable direction, or purpose....it is more than just a ambient, full-sounding, sonic realization. Plodding and boring. More plodding though. Listless maybe...no energy other than Deen pounding skins, and Neal wanking off on his axe....I'm being serious, not trying to be funny.

I can't believe I'm saying this....but I know what you mean And maybe live, it's different. And on the cd more so. Which is why I won't be too critical of YouTube clips. I just wish his face had more emotion? There is something lacking in what I'm seeing and hearing...but I don't know what it is, but maybe it's like what youre saying. It's like the lack of "hooks" thing maybe.

Live, "Resonate" struck me as a great, intense make-out song. Somewhere, somebody's going to get lucky while playing it.

I think the couple in front of me already did.

[S2M]

I've been thinking for a lone word that would describe why I don't care for 4 out of the 5 songs....and I came up with: plodding. The songs literally plod along with no discernable direction, or purpose....it is more than just a ambient, full-sounding, sonic realization. Plodding and boring. More plodding though. Listless maybe...no energy other than Deen pounding skins, and Neal wanking off on his axe....I'm being serious, not trying to be funny.

I can't believe I'm saying this....but I know what you mean And maybe live, it's different. And on the cd more so. Which is why I won't be too critical of YouTube clips. I just wish his face had more emotion? There is something lacking in what I'm seeing and hearing...but I don't know what it is, but maybe it's like what youre saying. It's like the lack of "hooks" thing maybe.

Live, "Resonate" struck me as a great, intense make-out song. Somewhere, somebody's going to get lucky while playing it.

I think the couple in front of me already did.

Dan & Phyl?

[Rip Rokken]

I'm in the absolutely utterly fabulous camp. Rocking and dark...subtle melodies rather than instant love it and leave it style. Growers folks.....growers...

Those always end up being the albums with the greatest replay value too. You'll discover something new each time you listen to them.

[kgdjpubs]

It sounds like everyone has found a t least one song right off the bat that might have promise. So in reverse, what song did you absolutely not like?

Resonate was the one for me. Obviously I'm in the minority but that's okay.

I think this recording shows the song better, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qUWEiBPy-U
Wasn't too fond of it from the first recording, but it sounds much better here on this link.

[Rip Rokken]

The term 'grower' is a myth. You either like something, or you don't. 'Grower' is a euphemism for 'I have to like this album, song, movie'....etc. For instance, *I'm* not a grower....you either like me, or you don't....

Not true at all... I think it comes from having different initial expectations, then with repeated listens you learn to appreciate it for what it actually is. There is often disappointment for me at first, then after time I realize what they are trying to do. Trust me, there are albums I really want to give a good solid chance to, but after multiple listens they fail to catch on. I can't make myself like something when it just isn't there. Goes for movies too, like Superman Returns.

[kgdjpubs]

Out of curiosity, for those that might have heard the finished product (Andrew), is there any one song on this album that is better than If I fall from W.E.T.? You were pretty high on that song when it came out.

To me, that was the penultimate Journey album....that is the what could have been.

If I Fall was VERY good. I hear very little, if any, Journey in the rest of that album however. Good, but not great, with some very pedestrian lyrics in places. JSS sounds a million bucks however with some of the best vocals I've heard from him.

[S2M]

The term 'grower' is a myth. You either like something, or you don't. 'Grower' is a euphemism for 'I have to like this album, song, movie'....etc. For instance, *I'm* not a grower....you either like me, or you don't....

Not true at all... I think it comes from having different initial expectations, then with repeated listens you learn to appreciate it for what it actually is. There is often disappointment for me at first, then after time I realize what they are trying to do. Trust me, there are albums I really want to give a good solid chance to, but after multiple listens they fail to catch on. I can't make myself like something when it just isn't there. Goes for movies too, like Superman Returns.

Ehh...I guarantee that you would never not like an album Arnel was on....and if you were on the fence(grower) you would tip in favor of eventually liking it...you couldn't handle the dissonance....

And I think you are confusing 'grower', which by all intents and purposes means you do not like it at all....then gradually do - and being disappointed with the style and direction of the album, not necessarily not liking it in general.

Also, you should change your avatar to a picture of Arnel sitting in a chair, and your face in his lap.......just saying.

[steveo777]

All of this talk makes me LOL.

It's the same old argument. Steve Perry is gone, and some of us were Journey fans mainly because of his voice and the emotion behind it. Sure, Neal's soulful and bluesy guitar licks helped Journey become successful... sure, Jon Cain's brilliant keyboard playing and lyric writing helped create the Journey sound - but the Voice is missing, and cannot be duplicated.

We can re-argue this same topic for 10,000 pages... but at the end of the day you still have Elvis' band without Elvis. That will never change.

Again, this is old news. Journey's last great album with Perry was in 1983. Between ROR, Against The Wall, FTLOSM and TBF you have about 3.5 million in album sales. His fire went out in 1984. Elvis' voice left before Elvis did.

Speaking of voices going out,,,,one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up yet is Arnel's voice and it's future ,,,singing like that, every night for 18 months, the guy will be FRIED,,,, he will have NO voice left,,,, doesn't matter how strong it is now! He is singing in full voice & hitting ridiculous notes that will take it's toll soon enough.


Thoughts ?!

Yeah, it sounds like a good case for tuning down. No singer, no matter who, will sustain their voice over prolonged touring with this catalog. There will be casualties unless they tune down. With what we know now there should be no argument that this is the way to go, unless we want perpetual replacement singers. Can't have longevity and original key, nope....not both ways.

[brandonx76]

Dude - RipRokken - Nice fuckin' work on the capture. Thanks for posting and getting out to us....Did you get to hang with the band??

[Behshad]

All of this talk makes me LOL.

It's the same old argument. Steve Perry is gone, and some of us were Journey fans mainly because of his voice and the emotion behind it. Sure, Neal's soulful and bluesy guitar licks helped Journey become successful... sure, Jon Cain's brilliant keyboard playing and lyric writing helped create the Journey sound - but the Voice is missing, and cannot be duplicated.

We can re-argue this same topic for 10,000 pages... but at the end of the day you still have Elvis' band without Elvis. That will never change.

Again, this is old news. Journey's last great album with Perry was in 1983. Between ROR, Against The Wall, FTLOSM and TBF you have about 3.5 million in album sales. His fire went out in 1984. Elvis' voice left before Elvis did.

Speaking of voices going out,,,,one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up yet is Arnel's voice and it's future ,,,singing like that, every night for 18 months, the guy will be FRIED,,,, he will have NO voice left,,,, doesn't matter how strong it is now! He is singing in full voice & hitting ridiculous notes that will take it's toll soon enough.


Thoughts ?!

Yeah, it sounds like a good case for tuning down. No singer, no matter who, will sustain their voice over prolonged touring with this catalog. There will be casualties unless they tune down. With what we know now there should be no argument that this is the way to go, unless we want perpetual replacement singers. Can't have longevity and original key, nope....not both ways.

See ?! Even Steveo gets my point they will have to tune down but will they ?!?!

[StevePerryHair]

All of this talk makes me LOL.

It's the same old argument. Steve Perry is gone, and some of us were Journey fans mainly because of his voice and the emotion behind it. Sure, Neal's soulful and bluesy guitar licks helped Journey become successful... sure, Jon Cain's brilliant keyboard playing and lyric writing helped create the Journey sound - but the Voice is missing, and cannot be duplicated.

We can re-argue this same topic for 10,000 pages... but at the end of the day you still have Elvis' band without Elvis. That will never change.

Again, this is old news. Journey's last great album with Perry was in 1983. Between ROR, Against The Wall, FTLOSM and TBF you have about 3.5 million in album sales. His fire went out in 1984. Elvis' voice left before Elvis did.

Speaking of voices going out,,,,one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up yet is Arnel's voice and it's future ,,,singing like that, every night for 18 months, the guy will be FRIED,,,, he will have NO voice left,,,, doesn't matter how strong it is now! He is singing in full voice & hitting ridiculous notes that will take it's toll soon enough.


Thoughts ?!

Yeah, it sounds like a good case for tuning down. No singer, no matter who, will sustain their voice over prolonged touring with this catalog. There will be casualties unless they tune down. With what we know now there should be no argument that this is the way to go, unless we want perpetual replacement singers. Can't have longevity and original key, nope....not both ways.

See ?! Even Steveo gets my point they will have to tune down but will they ?!?!

No, he just said what you wanted to hear, and I wouldn't

[Rip Rokken]

I do agree with S2M on the song structures. I'm not hearing much variation in tempo and arrangement.

Sometimes it's all about the melody, the beat, etc. Sometimes not... I've had songs that I've absolutely learned to love based on some unique little nuance added in the background that gave an otherwise familiar song a whole new dimension. Songs with that type of underlying complexity and dimension often fare much better than ones that toss put all their money into the main riffs and melody. I think that's what Andrew is talking about.

[Behshad]

All of this talk makes me LOL.

It's the same old argument. Steve Perry is gone, and some of us were Journey fans mainly because of his voice and the emotion behind it. Sure, Neal's soulful and bluesy guitar licks helped Journey become successful... sure, Jon Cain's brilliant keyboard playing and lyric writing helped create the Journey sound - but the Voice is missing, and cannot be duplicated.

We can re-argue this same topic for 10,000 pages... but at the end of the day you still have Elvis' band without Elvis. That will never change.

Again, this is old news. Journey's last great album with Perry was in 1983. Between ROR, Against The Wall, FTLOSM and TBF you have about 3.5 million in album sales. His fire went out in 1984. Elvis' voice left before Elvis did.

Speaking of voices going out,,,,one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up yet is Arnel's voice and it's future ,,,singing like that, every night for 18 months, the guy will be FRIED,,,, he will have NO voice left,,,, doesn't matter how strong it is now! He is singing in full voice & hitting ridiculous notes that will take it's toll soon enough.


Thoughts ?!

Yeah, it sounds like a good case for tuning down. No singer, no matter who, will sustain their voice over prolonged touring with this catalog. There will be casualties unless they tune down. With what we know now there should be no argument that this is the way to go, unless we want perpetual replacement singers. Can't have longevity and original key, nope....not both ways.

See ?! Even Steveo gets my point they will have to tune down but will they ?!?!

No, he just said what you wanted to hear, and I wouldn't

No , he understood my point , you didn't. Hard to explain tuning down songs to you , so I didn't bother

[kgdjpubs]

The term 'grower' is a myth. You either like something, or you don't. 'Grower' is a euphemism for 'I have to like this album, song, movie'....etc. For instance, *I'm* not a grower....you either like me, or you don't....

Not true at all... I think it comes from having different initial expectations, then with repeated listens you learn to appreciate it for what it actually is. There is often disappointment for me at first, then after time I realize what they are trying to do. Trust me, there are albums I really want to give a good solid chance to, but after multiple listens they fail to catch on. I can't make myself like something when it just isn't there. Goes for movies too, like Superman Returns.

"grower" depends on the type of song for me. For the typical pop-rock song with clearly defined verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, bridge, chorus out style, first impression is usually fairly close to the final, discounting the effect lyrics can have on a track. Most of Journey's stuff falls in this category.

On other types of songs (see progressive songs), it takes a few listens to get your head around it. Magnum, for me, is a band where most of the songs take a few listens. Once you start doing timing changes and stuff, it takes time to get your head around from what you are expecting, and what is in the song. Not sure why, but almost all of their albums have been grower albums.

One other area for "grower" albums is when the style changes on the new album compared to the previous one. Take Bon Jovi from New Jersey to Keep the Faith to These Days. Both KTF and These Days (especially the 2nd) threw me for a loop when I heard them. Loved the songs eventually, but it took some time (especially on These Days) to figure out where they were coming from. Then it hit, and ended up becoming the favorite album from them. Some songs never click, but others you listen to a few times, and then all of a sudden the "filler" becomes one of the best songs of the album.

You're getting that style change on this album, and some more subtle melodies. That tends to spell grower for me. Sometimes that's good, as the immediate album is often relegated to the dust bin pretty quick once the initial sheen wears off.

[Rip Rokken]

Arrival I tried to listen to time after time and didn't care for it. One day had it on while working and I finally got it and really love that album above several of the Journey/Perry albums and listen to it far more than most of later Journey/Perry. So I will keep an open mind even though I wanted more piano and more balance with midtempo/ballad type songs.

I had the exact same experience with Arrival -- had it for probably 3 years before it really clicked with me one day. I'd almost dismissed it completely outside of a couple of songs.

[StevePerryHair]

All of this talk makes me LOL.

It's the same old argument. Steve Perry is gone, and some of us were Journey fans mainly because of his voice and the emotion behind it. Sure, Neal's soulful and bluesy guitar licks helped Journey become successful... sure, Jon Cain's brilliant keyboard playing and lyric writing helped create the Journey sound - but the Voice is missing, and cannot be duplicated.

We can re-argue this same topic for 10,000 pages... but at the end of the day you still have Elvis' band without Elvis. That will never change.

Again, this is old news. Journey's last great album with Perry was in 1983. Between ROR, Against The Wall, FTLOSM and TBF you have about 3.5 million in album sales. His fire went out in 1984. Elvis' voice left before Elvis did.

Speaking of voices going out,,,,one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up yet is Arnel's voice and it's future ,,,singing like that, every night for 18 months, the guy will be FRIED,,,, he will have NO voice left,,,, doesn't matter how strong it is now! He is singing in full voice & hitting ridiculous notes that will take it's toll soon enough.


Thoughts ?!

Yeah, it sounds like a good case for tuning down. No singer, no matter who, will sustain their voice over prolonged touring with this catalog. There will be casualties unless they tune down. With what we know now there should be no argument that this is the way to go, unless we want perpetual replacement singers. Can't have longevity and original key, nope....not both ways.

See ?! Even Steveo gets my point they will have to tune down but will they ?!?!

No, he just said what you wanted to hear, and I wouldn't

No , he understood my point , you didn't. Hard to explain tuning down songs to you , so I didn't bother

Oh, I DID understand your point. I KNEW what you were leading up to. I just decided that I was going to skate around it. Because that's what I do! How could I not know what you were getting to? And I think I'm smart enough to know what that means. Thanks for the confidence in my intelligence though

[Behshad]

All of this talk makes me LOL.

It's the same old argument. Steve Perry is gone, and some of us were Journey fans mainly because of his voice and the emotion behind it. Sure, Neal's soulful and bluesy guitar licks helped Journey become successful... sure, Jon Cain's brilliant keyboard playing and lyric writing helped create the Journey sound - but the Voice is missing, and cannot be duplicated.

We can re-argue this same topic for 10,000 pages... but at the end of the day you still have Elvis' band without Elvis. That will never change.

Again, this is old news. Journey's last great album with Perry was in 1983. Between ROR, Against The Wall, FTLOSM and TBF you have about 3.5 million in album sales. His fire went out in 1984. Elvis' voice left before Elvis did.

Speaking of voices going out,,,,one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up yet is Arnel's voice and it's future ,,,singing like that, every night for 18 months, the guy will be FRIED,,,, he will have NO voice left,,,, doesn't matter how strong it is now! He is singing in full voice & hitting ridiculous notes that will take it's toll soon enough.


Thoughts ?!

Yeah, it sounds like a good case for tuning down. No singer, no matter who, will sustain their voice over prolonged touring with this catalog. There will be casualties unless they tune down. With what we know now there should be no argument that this is the way to go, unless we want perpetual replacement singers. Can't have longevity and original key, nope....not both ways.

See ?! Even Steveo gets my point they will have to tune down but will they ?!?!

No, he just said what you wanted to hear, and I wouldn't

No , he understood my point , you didn't. Hard to explain tuning down songs to you , so I didn't bother

Oh, I DID understand your point. I KNEW what you were leading up to. I just decided that I was going to skate around it. Because that's what I do! How could I not know what you were getting to? And I think I'm smart enough to know what that means. Thanks for the confidence in my intelligence though

By skating around it and bringing up irrelevant points about a tour where they played the songs tuned down , YOU represented your level of intelligence in this matter
I simply wanted opinions on what people think this would do to Arnie's voice.

[S2M]

Well it can't get any worse, B.....

[Rip Rokken]

Live, "Resonate" struck me as a great, intense make-out song. Somewhere, somebody's going to get lucky while playing it.

I think the couple in front of me already did.

Truthfully... did it make you think about George Lynch?



I'm still laughing about our cab driver's story, btw... lol!

[S2M]

I've been thinking.....Revelation doesn't sound so bad now....and I'm thinking of getting vanity plates that read Red13....

[slucero]

I bet they do a mixture of songs in the original key and some tuned down... .

[Rip Rokken]

Ehh...I guarantee that you would never not like an album Arnel was on....and if you were on the fence(grower) you would tip in favor of eventually liking it...you couldn't handle the dissonance....

And I think you are confusing 'grower', which by all intents and purposes means you do not like it at all....then gradually do - and being disappointed with the style and direction of the album, not necessarily not liking it in general.

Again, not true, lol... First, and I've not been secretive about this, Revelation was missing something for me, even with the great songs it had. I never completely loved that album, and I guess it was because it just aimed for familiarity instead of originality. It seems to be what happens when they change vocalists -- try to prove that they are "still Journey". The same reason I Arrival wasn't that big for me at first -- some songs sounded like reworks of past songs for the sake of keeping the sound, plain and simple.

Also, grower doesn't necessarily mean I dislike an album at first. It only means exactly what Andrew says -- that I don't get everything an album has to offer in the first 1 or 2 listens. It's a discovery process.

Your curmudgitude continues to bemuse me.

[steveo777]

I bet they do a mixture of songs in the original key and some tuned down... .

I don't think that's feasible. All of a show will either be tuned down or not. I believe when the band is working full time
the tuning down will be full time. When they have more time off they may play some gigs in original key.

[Behshad]

I bet they do a mixture of songs in the original key and some tuned down... .

I bet they don't.

[kgdjpubs]

Again, not true, lol... First, and I've not been secretive about this, Revelation was missing something for me, even with the great songs it had. I never completely loved that album, and I guess it was because it just aimed for familiarity instead of originality. It seems to be what happens when they change vocalists -- try to prove that they are "still Journey". The same reason I Arrival wasn't that big for me at first -- some songs sounded like reworks of past songs for the sake of keeping the sound, plain and simple.

That might be part of it. I think the other side of it is that Revelation was written before they knew who was going to be singing it. Once you get an album under your belt, you know the strengths and weaknesses of your singer, and you can better tailor the material to their strengths the next time. Seen this happen over and over, and not just with Journey. The 2nd album is usually better. Same goes for albums after a breakup. The 2nd reunion album is usually better than the first.

[S2M]

Ehh...I guarantee that you would never not like an album Arnel was on....and if you were on the fence(grower) you would tip in favor of eventually liking it...you couldn't handle the dissonance....

And I think you are confusing 'grower', which by all intents and purposes means you do not like it at all....then gradually do - and being disappointed with the style and direction of the album, not necessarily not liking it in general.

Again, not true, lol... First, and I've not been secretive about this, Revelation was missing something for me, even with the great songs it had. I never completely loved that album, and I guess it was because it just aimed for familiarity instead of originality. It seems to be what happens when they change vocalists -- try to prove that they are "still Journey". The same reason I Arrival wasn't that big for me at first -- some songs sounded like reworks of past songs for the sake of keeping the sound, plain and simple.

Also, grower doesn't necessarily mean I dislike an album at first. It only means exactly what Andrew says -- that I don't get everything an album has to offer in the first 1 or 2 listens. It's a discovery process.

Your curmudgitude continues to bemuse me.

My contention, however, was songs individually....not an album as a whole. I know styles can change song to song. Actually, this is how I do it. I cue up the album in iTunes and click on a song. just like a book....you got 20 secs to impress me. I know after 20 secs if I like a song. I don't have to hear the whole thing. Then it is clicked to the next song, and so forth.....I choose all my music like this, and believe you me, I have loads of it. I'm approaching close to a terabyte's worth....

[Rip Rokken]

Dude - RipRokken - Nice fuckin' work on the capture. Thanks for posting and getting out to us....Did you get to hang with the band??

Thanks, Brandon. I just bought a new camera today too, exactly like Fabbest just got. She did the intense research first, then I picked her brain. I'll take the new one to Chile, and it has a 16x zoom and a much better autofocus -- best of all, it doesn't bulge out of my side pocket like the other one. More room for power bars and Sharpies, now.



I kept this trip pretty low key. Just concentrated on relaxing and hanging with the other fans. I really try not to force things too much where the band is concerned -- I hope to see plenty of shows, and when those cool times happen, it's just an added bonus. I did get that nice phone call this morning, though.