President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Seven Wishes2]

The result, by our math and Lang’s, is the $137 million shortfall.

'Nuff said. Lang is a biased source. The .gov data is NOT.

[Seven Wishes2]

Jackass, apples and oranges again. The fact remains that Walker has lined up special interests at the expense of the ordinary, every day public sector worker's rights.

I stand corrected in that Lang was the source of the document. I was referring to the author of your blog post about Maddow, which is politically motivated and biased.

[Seven Wishes2]

Britain ready to use force to free Libya

Deborah Haynes, Sam Coates and Michael Evans
1 minute ago

Britain and its Nato allies are making plans to send warplanes in to Libya and arm rebels as Western determination hardens to force out Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and prevent a humanitarian disaster. Going further than any world leader, David Cameron said yesterday

Now this, I support 110%. We need to be rid of that loony once and for all.

[Seven Wishes2]

Well, as in any profession, employment should be subject to performance. No more or no less than in any other sector, private or public. I've always resented the incompetent yet termination-proof tenured professors I've had over the years, though relatively small in number.

[Monker]

Well, as in any profession, employment should be subject to performance. No more or no less than in any other sector, private or public. I've always resented the incompetent yet termination-proof tenured professors I've had over the years, though relatively small in number.

Good for you, that's why when you hear that in Wisconsin fully 2/3rds (That's 2 out of 3 for Deano ) of 8th graders cannot read at the acceptable level, people start to get pissed when these teachers aren't doing a good job for their wage.

Maybe they should stop the inbreeding. Problem solved.

[Rick]

Stop blaming teachers for all of this country's educational problems. Poor or just plain lack of parenting is the major reason. Everyone wants to blame it on the teachers and their unions. Teachers can't teach children that are lazy and refuse to learn.

And while we're at it, stop blaming unions for so many of this country's woe's as well. Stop believing everything Corporate America and right wing politicians tell you. The fact is, unions are not the reason for lazy workers, it's the company they work for. Unions cant stop a company from firing a worker if they don't do their job. Not teachers unions, not airline workers unions, not any union. But if some right wing politician tells you, or some uber rich corporate big wig tells you that's what is going on, you buy it, hook, line and sinker. Unions have been vilified by those people because we cost them money. We make more and they make less. And I'm talking about the executives, not the companies. If we look like the bad guy, public opinion is swayed and people won't want to join them. These companies want to strip union workers and non-union workers alike of all benefits. And the ONLY reason is so they can put more money in their own pockets. They post losses and blame it on the union. They post profits and blame it on their executives. It's sickening, and it's bullshit. The fact is, if unions are abolished, everyone's pay and benefits will decrease, this country's middle class will begin to disappear faster than it is, and we'll be just another third world country. EVERY successful industrialized nation, with a hearty middle class, has labor unions.

It IS NOT the unions fault that industries in this country have failed. It's piss poor management and corporate greed. Inferior products were made because the companies decided to use inferior materials to save money and put more of it in their pockets. Quality suffered and so did sales. The union workers merely assembled the inferior materials into the final product. But these companies didn't hesitate to blame it on soaring pension and medical costs. Why would they blame it on themselves?

It is also not the unions fault that jobs have been shipped overseas. Again, it's corporate greed.

[hoagiepete]

Stop blaming teachers for all of this country's educational problems. Poor or just plain lack of parenting is the major reason. Everyone wants to blame it on the teachers and their unions. Teachers can't teach children that are lazy and refuse to learn.

And while we're at it, stop blaming unions for so many of this country's woe's as well. Stop believing everything Corporate America and right wing politicians tell you. The fact is, unions are not the reason for lazy workers, it's the company they work for. Unions cant stop a company from firing a worker if they don't do their job. Not teachers unions, not airline workers unions, not any union. But if some right wing politician tells you, or some uber rich corporate big wig tells you that's what is going on, you buy it, hook, line and sinker. Unions have been vilified by those people because we cost them money. We make more and they make less. And I'm talking about the executives, not the companies. If we look like the bad guy, public opinion is swayed and people won't want to join them. These companies want to strip union workers and non-union workers alike of all benefits. And the ONLY reason is so they can put more money in their own pockets. They post losses and blame it on the union. They post profits and blame it on their executives. It's sickening, and it's bullshit. The fact is, if unions are abolished, everyone's pay and benefits will decrease, this country's middle class will begin to disappear faster than it is, and we'll be just another third world country. EVERY successful industrialized nation, with a hearty middle class, has labor unions.

It IS NOT the unions fault that industries in this country have failed. It's piss poor management and corporate greed. Inferior products were made because the companies decided to use inferior materials to save money and put more of it in their pockets. Quality suffered and so did sales. The union workers merely assembled the inferior materials into the final product. But these companies didn't hesitate to blame it on soaring pension and medical costs. Why would they blame it on themselves?

It is also not the unions fault that jobs have been shipped overseas. Again, it's corporate greed.

While much that you said is true, to hold the unions harmless in this is unfortunate. There is plenty of blame to be directed at all parties.

Referring to the construction industry in which I deal with daily, unions bargain for the lowest common denominator. Merit pay is often not possible because of the high wages demanded of the least productive and reliable union members. The one for all and all for one brotherhood kills incentive and motivation for those that want to work hard. Why work hard if the slackard gets the same pay?

Union rules of the past do not allow companies of today to be efficient or profitable. Productivity in the construction industry sucks and old union rules do not help at all. Most union members are hired by the company. The bench does not produce quality workers and the union is to blame there. These guys and gals are better suited for sitting in a lawn chair holding a picket sign.

Unions have overbargained and now it is catching up with them. However, shame on management for not having the backbone to endure a strike, albeit some would be forced out of business if a strike occurred, thus slowing this evolution to noncompetitiveness. They made the concessions no doubt. Union contractors have difficulty being competitive in today's market and they have themselves AND the unions to blame. Have you seen what a tradesperson can make, wages and bennies?

I repeatedly see Union Trustees go to bat for a member that blatantly broke the rules of a health and welfare plan, causing the other union members to pay for the rulebreakers poor decisions. They think they are doing their job by protecting a member they knew did wrong, when their real job as a fiduciary of the trust is to do the right thing for the fund and the members as a whole. They don't get it.

Today, the unions are their worst own enemies. Jurisdictional disputes between unions scare many owners away from union contractors. Who wants to deal with work delays and banners because an electrician is pissed a carpenter is screwing in a light bulb?

Unions are not to be blamed for everything, but they have outlived their usefulness in their current form. If they could be recreated to represent the workers, while being a true partner to the owner...that would be a different story.

[Rick]

Stop blaming teachers for all of this country's educational problems. Poor or just plain lack of parenting is the major reason. Everyone wants to blame it on the teachers and their unions. Teachers can't teach children that are lazy and refuse to learn.

And while we're at it, stop blaming unions for so many of this country's woe's as well. Stop believing everything Corporate America and right wing politicians tell you. The fact is, unions are not the reason for lazy workers, it's the company they work for. Unions cant stop a company from firing a worker if they don't do their job. Not teachers unions, not airline workers unions, not any union. But if some right wing politician tells you, or some uber rich corporate big wig tells you that's what is going on, you buy it, hook, line and sinker. Unions have been vilified by those people because we cost them money. We make more and they make less. And I'm talking about the executives, not the companies. If we look like the bad guy, public opinion is swayed and people won't want to join them. These companies want to strip union workers and non-union workers alike of all benefits. And the ONLY reason is so they can put more money in their own pockets. They post losses and blame it on the union. They post profits and blame it on their executives. It's sickening, and it's bullshit. The fact is, if unions are abolished, everyone's pay and benefits will decrease, this country's middle class will begin to disappear faster than it is, and we'll be just another third world country. EVERY successful industrialized nation, with a hearty middle class, has labor unions.

It IS NOT the unions fault that industries in this country have failed. It's piss poor management and corporate greed. Inferior products were made because the companies decided to use inferior materials to save money and put more of it in their pockets. Quality suffered and so did sales. The union workers merely assembled the inferior materials into the final product. But these companies didn't hesitate to blame it on soaring pension and medical costs. Why would they blame it on themselves?

It is also not the unions fault that jobs have been shipped overseas. Again, it's corporate greed.

While much that you said is true, to hold the unions harmless in this is unfortunate. There is plenty of blame to be directed at all parties.

Referring to the construction industry in which I deal with daily, unions bargain for the lowest common denominator. Merit pay is often not possible because of the high wages demanded of the least productive and reliable union members. The one for all and all for one brotherhood kills incentive and motivation for those that want to work hard. Why work hard if the slackard gets the same pay?

Union rules of the past do not allow companies of today to be efficient or profitable. Productivity in the construction industry sucks and old union rules do not help at all. Most union members are hired by the company. The bench does not produce quality workers and the union is to blame there. These guys and gals are better suited for sitting in a lawn chair holding a picket sign.

Unions have overbargained and now it is catching up with them. However, shame on management for not having the backbone to endure a strike, albeit some would be forced out of business if a strike occurred, thus slowing this evolution to noncompetitiveness. They made the concessions no doubt. Union contractors have difficulty being competitive in today's market and they have themselves AND the unions to blame. Have you seen what a tradesperson can make, wages and bennies?

I repeatedly see Union Trustees go to bat for a member that blatantly broke the rules of a health and welfare plan, causing the other union members to pay for the rulebreakers poor decisions. They think they are doing their job by protecting a member they knew did wrong, when their real job as a fiduciary of the trust is to do the right thing for the fund and the members as a whole. They don't get it.

Today, the unions are their worst own enemies. Jurisdictional disputes between unions scare many owners away from union contractors. Who wants to deal with work delays and banners because an electrician is pissed a carpenter is screwing in a light bulb?

Unions are not to be blamed for everything, but they have outlived their usefulness in their current form. If they could be recreated to represent the workers, while being a true partner to the owner...that would be a different story.

I agree that unions aren't blameless, but they do serve a useful purpose. If you hire a unionized worker to do a job, you have more confidence he's qualified, especially in the construction industry. Your point about a construction worker screwing in a light bulb is a good one, and let him do that job, but if you let one thing go, then it's another, then before you know it, you have unqualified people doing work they shouldn't be doing. It's about protecting people's licenses and preserving safety.

I also agree with you about unions protecting people that blatantly break rules. But the union can't keep that man's job if the infraction was blatant. They're bound to represent him at his termination because he pays union dues. They can and have been sued for not doing so.

I don't get angry, because I know better, but do get defensive when union members are depicted as lazy, fat slobs that do nothing but be a drain on the company they work for and society in general, because where I work, that simply isn't the case. Do they exist? Sure, but they exist in every workforce. Not just union shops. We work hard, and in my estimation, very well earn our pay and benefits. We do have good days at work, where we get to take breaks, but we also have very hard days, where we work out in the heat, the cold, the rain, the snow, sleet, and any condition that presents itself. We work in small, hot cargo compartments, stacking bags, freight and mail on our knees, and bags have done nothing but get heavier year after year. We deice planes some 20 to 30 feet in the air, drive machinery that weighs 30 tons. And we do it all for 21 bucks an hour, minus $250 a month for health insurance. And what does the company say about us? "We're a huge brick in their backpack". If you reduce pay and benefits, you're going to attract people whose tenures are short lived as they move on to something better. And then you have less experienced, less loyal employees. I don't think the industry I work in neither should nor can tolerate that. If unions are abolished, that's exactly what you'll have.

[Seven Wishes2]

The average teacher makes $30K less than the average accountant.

So Walker is going to turn the screw on the teachers and public servants.

Blocking school districts that can afford and want to support their schools? A local tax increase won't make up the difference.

Reduce pay for teachers, reduce funding for schools, what next?

Good schools drive up property values.

They increase the potential income for students.

They bring better jobs into the community.

This is one of the most short sighted solutions to a budget problem I have ever seen.

[Seven Wishes2]

A CEO, a Tea Party member, and a union representative are sitting at a table. There is a plate with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11, turns to the Tea Party member, and says, "Look out! That union guy wants your cookie!"

I loved the new Faux news coverage of a completely different protest in Miami earlier this year, where things got a little out of hand. Faux used that footage when doing a piece on the Wisconsin protests. Amazing.

[Seven Wishes2]

Most of those look photo shopped to me, except the first three and the last one - which is, of course, the most offensive.

Especially the "save are teacher" sign. Come on, now.

Besides, I wouldn't put it above Scotty Boy to put a few lackeys in the crowd. It was, after all, a strategy they were (as of a week ago) very seriously considering.

[conversationpc]

Besides, I wouldn't put it above Scotty Boy to put a few lackeys in the crowd. It was, after all, a strategy they were (as of a week ago) very seriously considering.

That's a strategy the anti-Tea Party folks have been carrying out for quite a while now.

[Seven Wishes2]

Right. Until it was revealed the Tea Party itself was planning on that as a front.

[conversationpc]

Right. Until it was revealed the Tea Party itself was planning on that as a front.

Bullcrap...There were leftists out there who organized web sites where people could sign up to attend and pretend they were part of the Tea Party rallies and then act out to discredit the organization. I'm not a Tea party member or fan even, have never been to a rally, and never will be but the crap some of you folks on the left were pulling was pretty unbelievable. Anyway, I wrote an article on this last April and the fact that there was (and probably still is) a large scale movement to discredit the group from within is undeniable.

From my blog... Tea Party Crashers

[donnaplease]

Stop blaming teachers for all of this country's educational problems. Poor or just plain lack of parenting is the major reason. Everyone wants to blame it on the teachers and their unions. Teachers can't teach children that are lazy and refuse to learn.

And while we're at it, stop blaming unions for so many of this country's woe's as well. Stop believing everything Corporate America and right wing politicians tell you. The fact is, unions are not the reason for lazy workers, it's the company they work for. Unions cant stop a company from firing a worker if they don't do their job. Not teachers unions, not airline workers unions, not any union. But if some right wing politician tells you, or some uber rich corporate big wig tells you that's what is going on, you buy it, hook, line and sinker. Unions have been vilified by those people because we cost them money. We make more and they make less. And I'm talking about the executives, not the companies. If we look like the bad guy, public opinion is swayed and people won't want to join them. These companies want to strip union workers and non-union workers alike of all benefits. And the ONLY reason is so they can put more money in their own pockets. They post losses and blame it on the union. They post profits and blame it on their executives. It's sickening, and it's bullshit. The fact is, if unions are abolished, everyone's pay and benefits will decrease, this country's middle class will begin to disappear faster than it is, and we'll be just another third world country. EVERY successful industrialized nation, with a hearty middle class, has labor unions.

It IS NOT the unions fault that industries in this country have failed. It's piss poor management and corporate greed. Inferior products were made because the companies decided to use inferior materials to save money and put more of it in their pockets. Quality suffered and so did sales. The union workers merely assembled the inferior materials into the final product. But these companies didn't hesitate to blame it on soaring pension and medical costs. Why would they blame it on themselves?

It is also not the unions fault that jobs have been shipped overseas. Again, it's corporate greed.

I heard someone say yesterday that it was not solely the unions fault that they are getting perks that non-union workers aren't getting. It was suggested that it was the politicians who get in the sack with the unions in order to get their support that are the real problem. They do what they have to do to get that support for their campaign, then they're screwed. If they don't produce whatever it is that the unions want, then they run the risk of losing their next election. Obviously this is true with other organizations, corporations, etc. But don't think for one minute that they do not possess a HUGE amount of political clout and they suck it dry ever chance they get.

I think there was a time and a place for unions, and much of that time may have passed. Especially if they're greedy and the taxpayers are footing the bill. There are much better places for our government to be spending our tax dollars... like the supplies that the teachers need in order to do their jobs.

[Seven Wishes2]

Right. Despite facts to the contrary, the GOP continues to portray the average public employee as the problem, not the monolithic massive corporations with their billionaire CEO's. I'm calling bullshit on this one. Some of you have swallowed so much Limbaugh spooge it's about to ooze out of your noise holes.

[RedWingFan]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.

Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

Gunman yells Allahu Akbar as he opens fire on American airmen.

President Obama says the government will “spare no effort” to determine why two American airmen were killed and two others were wounded in a shooting in Frankfurt, Germany.

“I’m saddened, and I am outraged, by this attack that took the lives of two Americans and wounded two others. I think the American people are united in expressing our service to those who were lost,” Obama told reporters in a surprise appearance in the briefing room. “We are praying for a speedy recovery for those who were injured.”

Obama promised that “we will spare no effort” to figure out “how this outrageous attack took place.”

“We don’t have all the information yet,” he told reporters. “You will be fully briefed as we get more information.” He added that the attack is a “stark reminder” of the “extraordinary sacrifices” made by the members of the military.

[Seven Wishes2]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

[RedWingFan]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

No, resident ball washer, they wouldn't. THIS president refuses to use the word "terrorists". What's his administration's phrase again? Seriously I can't remember.

[slucero]

"un-documented enemies"

[Saint John]

"un-documented enemies"

Oh ... he means Muslims.

[RedWingFan]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

Oh, I looked it up. He's the ONLY spineless douche president who's ever implemented the term "man-caused disaster". Douche ball washer.

Face the facts and try not to equate this fool with previous presidents.

[conversationpc]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

Wow...Seven Wishes successfully quoted someone.

[Seven Wishes2]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

Oh, I looked it up. He's the ONLY spineless douche president who's ever implemented the term "man-caused disaster". Douche ball washer.

Face the facts and try not to equate this fool with previous presidents.

You're right. He could only aspire to be as intelligent or truthful as Dubbya, or as well-spoken and pejorative as Dubbya's father, or as mentally aware as Reagan...or as honest as Nixon, as coordinated as Ford.

And Dave, I've had the quote thing figured out for at least the past two or three weeks.

[slucero]

or honest as Clinton?

[RedWingFan]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

Oh, I looked it up. He's the ONLY spineless douche president who's ever implemented the term "man-caused disaster". Douche ball washer.

Face the facts and try not to equate this fool with previous presidents.

You're right. He could only aspire to be as intelligent or truthful as Dubbya, or as well-spoken and pejorative as Dubbya's father, or as mentally aware as Reagan...or as honest as Nixon, as coordinated as Ford.

All of those things are irrelevant compared to having the awareness and courage to deal with what we're facing. Don't you agree?

[Monker]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

No, resident ball washer, they wouldn't. THIS president refuses to use the word "terrorists". What's his administration's phrase again? Seriously I can't remember.

Yeah, and Reagan and Bush called Osama bin Ladin a "freedom fighter".

The reality is that a non-descript term that denies them the attention they seek is really all they deserve anyway.

[RedWingFan]

A question for all you Obama ball washers.
Is Obama really this stupid? "spare no effort"?

WTF is your problem? EVERY President would say the exact same thing. Douchebag.

No, resident ball washer, they wouldn't. THIS president refuses to use the word "terrorists". What's his administration's phrase again? Seriously I can't remember.

Yeah, and Reagan and Bush called Osama bin Ladin a "freedom fighter".

That was while he was fighting against the invading Commies right?

He's moved on to other things since then. Remember? Probably not.

[Seven Wishes2]

All of those things are irrelevant compared to having the awareness and courage to deal with what we're facing. Don't you agree?

Really? Obama's international standing is stellar, and he is highly regarded by heads of state across the world. Even the Arabs respect him more than they did Dubbya. Tell me exactly what you think he's not doing right now, and how he needs to handle it. I'm truly curious here, and I'm not giving you shit.

[RedWingFan]

All of those things are irrelevant compared to having the awareness and courage to deal with what we're facing. Don't you agree?

Really? Obama's international standing is stellar, and he is highly regarded by heads of state across the world. Even the Arabs respect him more than they did Dubbya.

I highly doubt it. Do our enemies like him more the W? Absolutely. Respect? Let me put it this way. I love the doormat outside my front door. Saves me a bit of work and headaches, especially in the fall. Do I have one iota of respect for it? No.