President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[hoagiepete]

Uhh...hstily ordering Guantanamo Bay closed BEFORE you figure out what to do with the prisoners was unwise, IMO.

i think he is going to give them a shovel and make the prisoners build roads and bridges,thats what i would do

And put contractors out of business?

[Rockindeano]

Good one.

When did it become vogue to root AGAINST your own country being successful? Is the implementation of a particular economic philosophy or strategy tatamount in importance to the long-term well being of the United States? While I was increasingly NOT a fan of Bush and his policies, I don't believe I crossed that line until 2006 or so, when the economic shit started to hit the proverbial fan. We're all guilty of it now, so I'm not calling anyone out. Just an observation.

On a different note, I would like to find out what makes some people on this forum tick. More specifically, I would like us to list perhaps four or five of our most sacred socio-political beliefs, and how they line up with or stand in constrast to the conventional platforms of the party with which you most closely affiliate yourself.

I'm not sure anyone (here, anyway) is rooting against our own country, but the criticism of our leaders needs to be nipped in the bud. The worst thing I've seen is how many people called Bush a murderer because of the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. While BO has certainly had his share of criticism, I don't think it's gotten to quite that level yet. And IMO, for every white person out there making racist remarks about him, there are 2 accusing those making legitimate criticisms of being racist simply because they don't want to deal with his perceived faults. I want our country to be successful, and that means having successful leadership. But I do not share the president's values and have no problem saying so.

I think my biggest socio-political belief is that of self-responsibility. Whether it's economic, religious, educational, or family values... our society has gotten so far away from even the values that were 'typical' when I was a kid.

Dissent IS patriotic. If we do not question our own leaders, who work for us, then we as a people are powerless.

[slucero]

Good one.

When did it become vogue to root AGAINST your own country being successful? Is the implementation of a particular economic philosophy or strategy tatamount in importance to the long-term well being of the United States? While I was increasingly NOT a fan of Bush and his policies, I don't believe I crossed that line until 2006 or so, when the economic shit started to hit the proverbial fan. We're all guilty of it now, so I'm not calling anyone out. Just an observation.

On a different note, I would like to find out what makes some people on this forum tick. More specifically, I would like us to list perhaps four or five of our most sacred socio-political beliefs, and how they line up with or stand in constrast to the conventional platforms of the party with which you most closely affiliate yourself.

I'm not sure anyone (here, anyway) is rooting against our own country, but the criticism of our leaders needs to be nipped in the bud. The worst thing I've seen is how many people called Bush a murderer because of the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. While BO has certainly had his share of criticism, I don't think it's gotten to quite that level yet. And IMO, for every white person out there making racist remarks about him, there are 2 accusing those making legitimate criticisms of being racist simply because they don't want to deal with his perceived faults. I want our country to be successful, and that means having successful leadership. But I do not share the president's values and have no problem saying so.

I think my biggest socio-political belief is that of self-responsibility. Whether it's economic, religious, educational, or family values... our society has gotten so far away from even the values that were 'typical' when I was a kid.

Dissent IS patriotic. If we do not question our own leaders, who work for us, then we as a people are powerless.

From here: http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferso ... -quotation

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" is often attributed to Thomas Jefferson, but to date we have found no evidence that he said or wrote this. Its true origins are uncertain, but the saying may have entered popular culture during the Vietnam era.

The earliest usage of the phrase we have found is in a 1961 publication, The Use of Force in International Affairs: "If what your country is doing seems to you practically and morally wrong, is dissent the highest form of patriotism?"

Jefferson's actual views on dissent:

"Political dissension is doubtless a less evil than the lethargy of despotism: but still it is a great evil, and it would be as worthy the efforts of the patriot as of the philosopher, to exclude it's influence if possible, from social life. The good are rare enough at best. There is no reason to subdivide them by artificial lines. But whether we shall ever be able so far to perfect the principles of society as that political opinions shall, in it's intercourse, be as inoffensive as those of philosophy, mechanics, or any other, may well be doubted."

~ TJ to Thomas Pinckney, 29 May 1797

[donnaplease]

There is nothing wrong with dissent. Holding our leaders accountable is the role of the constituents. It's the way some people express that dissent that is disheartening. I'm not criticizing one group over another, there's enough fault there to go around. There are ways to disagree with someone without the vitriolic nonsense, though.

[KenTheDude]

Meanwhile a single mother of four works 3 jobs to feed her family....yeah, this country is great.

No. the single mother uses her EBT card to eat free food provided by the other 50% who actually work for a living.

You guys talk about taxing the "Rich" their fair share. What about the ones who pay nothing and yet live off of us? Where's their fair share? Hmmmmmm.

Then (like the story I shared a few months ago) when she has no more room in her freezer for steak and lobster, the single mother of 4 tries to sell her $500 EBT card for $200 to my buddy at work.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Good one.

When did it become vogue to root AGAINST your own country being successful? Is the implementation of a particular economic philosophy or strategy tatamount in importance to the long-term well being of the United States? While I was increasingly NOT a fan of Bush and his policies, I don't believe I crossed that line until 2006 or so, when the economic shit started to hit the proverbial fan. We're all guilty of it now, so I'm not calling anyone out. Just an observation.

On a different note, I would like to find out what makes some people on this forum tick. More specifically, I would like us to list perhaps four or five of our most sacred socio-political beliefs, and how they line up with or stand in constrast to the conventional platforms of the party with which you most closely affiliate yourself.

I'm not sure anyone (here, anyway) is rooting against our own country, but the criticism of our leaders needs to be nipped in the bud. The worst thing I've seen is how many people called Bush a murderer because of the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. While BO has certainly had his share of criticism, I don't think it's gotten to quite that level yet. And IMO, for every white person out there making racist remarks about him, there are 2 accusing those making legitimate criticisms of being racist simply because they don't want to deal with his perceived faults. I want our country to be successful, and that means having successful leadership. But I do not share the president's values and have no problem saying so.

I think my biggest socio-political belief is that of self-responsibility. Whether it's economic, religious, educational, or family values... our society has gotten so far away from even the values that were 'typical' when I was a kid.

Dissent IS patriotic. If we do not question our own leaders, who work for us, then we as a people are powerless.

From here: http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferso ... -quotation

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" is often attributed to Thomas Jefferson, but to date we have found no evidence that he said or wrote this. Its true origins are uncertain, but the saying may have entered popular culture during the Vietnam era.

The earliest usage of the phrase we have found is in a 1961 publication, The Use of Force in International Affairs: "If what your country is doing seems to you practically and morally wrong, is dissent the highest form of patriotism?"

Jefferson's actual views on dissent:

"Political dissension is doubtless a less evil than the lethargy of despotism: but still it is a great evil, and it would be as worthy the efforts of the patriot as of the philosopher, to exclude it's influence if possible, from social life. The good are rare enough at best. There is no reason to subdivide them by artificial lines. But whether we shall ever be able so far to perfect the principles of society as that political opinions shall, in it's intercourse, be as inoffensive as those of philosophy, mechanics, or any other, may well be doubted."

~ TJ to Thomas Pinckney, 29 May 1797

Cant really get to the bottom of Jefferson's view by a few snippets. Jefferson thought that government was only legitimate through the consent of its citizens . If you consent and agree with the system of government then political dissention in the form of tearing people apart in a partisan artificial fashion is not right - This is what Jefferson's definiton of dissent was - I think-This is a little different than the definition of the term we are using here. However when government tramples on freedoms and individual rights Jefferson said don't simply dissent - you haver the right to "dissolve political bonds" (as in the dec of independence) - revolt against a tyrannical govt (a little revolution from time to time is a good thing).

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Good one.


On a different note, I would like to find out what makes some people on this forum tick. More specifically, I would like us to list perhaps four or five of our most sacred socio-political beliefs, and how they line up with or stand in constrast to the conventional platforms of the party with which you most closely affiliate yourself.

ok I 'll play. heres my ten commandments , Ill pass on commenting on what party I would be affiliated with, because I dont think I line up with anybody

1. Individuals have rights and there are things no person or group may do to them without violating their rights.-
2. A person is just only if he or she respects the rights of others
3. People own their own bodies- their bodies what they produce and do with their bodies is their own property.
4. People are naturally good, and left alone will do the right thing, and will naturally co-operate
5. The state is always the problem. In most cases we would be better off without it.
6. Free markets are the only effective means of economic co-operation
7 Public charity destroys the natural empathy that private citizens would otherwise feel for each other
8. War is the health of the state and it uses it to keep power. Any real lover of freedom should be very skeptical of the need for war and oppose massive defence spending.
and
9 The Green Bay Packers suck
and
10. Those guys downstairs who don't like Eclipse are friggin nuts and /or deaf!

[hoagiepete]

STATE DINNER MENU DONE ON BUDGET:

Obama feeds Merkle


White House Honey Gastrique
Tuna Tartare with Rye Crisps
Pickled Young Carrots and Mustard Oil
Spring Pea Salad
Shaved Ham and Ginger Snaps
Petite Filet
With Maryland Crab Ravioli
Wild Ramp Puree
Apple Strudel
Golden Raisins and Topfen

Meanwhile a single mother of four works 3 jobs to feed her family....yeah, this country is great.

This debate is absurd. So, until all people have enough money...what ever that amount is and determined by whomever...the White House should serve PBJs or hamburgers or mac and cheese? Rediculous.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

STATE DINNER MENU DONE ON BUDGET:

Obama feeds Merkle


White House Honey Gastrique
Tuna Tartare with Rye Crisps
Pickled Young Carrots and Mustard Oil
Spring Pea Salad
Shaved Ham and Ginger Snaps
Petite Filet
With Maryland Crab Ravioli
Wild Ramp Puree
Apple Strudel
Golden Raisins and Topfen

Meanwhile a single mother of four works 3 jobs to feed her family....yeah, this country is great.

This debate is absurd. So, until all people have enough money...what ever that amount is and determined by whomever...the White House should serve PBJs or hamburgers or mac and cheese? Rediculous.

I dont know that above menu doesn't seem all that appealing to me. A take out from Papa Johns or Popeyes might actually be a hell of alot more tastier

[S2M]

Judges sharply challenge healthcare law


A top Obama administration lawyer defending last year's healthcare law ran into skeptical questions Wednesday from three federal judges here, who suggested they may be ready to declare all or part of the law unconstitutional.

And in an ominous sign for the administration, the judges opened the arguments by saying they knew of no case in American history where the courts had upheld the government's power to force someone to buy a product.

"I can't find any case like this," said Chief Judge Joel Dubina of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. "If we uphold this, are there any limits" on the power of the federal government? he asked.

Judge Stanley Marcus appeared to agree. "I can't find any case" in the past where the courts upheld "telling a private person they are compelled to purchase a product in the open market…. Is there anything that suggests Congress can do this?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1995.story

Auto Insurance.....

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Judges sharply challenge healthcare law


A top Obama administration lawyer defending last year's healthcare law ran into skeptical questions Wednesday from three federal judges here, who suggested they may be ready to declare all or part of the law unconstitutional.

And in an ominous sign for the administration, the judges opened the arguments by saying they knew of no case in American history where the courts had upheld the government's power to force someone to buy a product.

"I can't find any case like this," said Chief Judge Joel Dubina of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. "If we uphold this, are there any limits" on the power of the federal government? he asked.

Judge Stanley Marcus appeared to agree. "I can't find any case" in the past where the courts upheld "telling a private person they are compelled to purchase a product in the open market…. Is there anything that suggests Congress can do this?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1995.story

Auto Insurance.....

You arent compelled to buy auto insurance if you dont drive a car. The only way to get out of buying health insurance would be to end your own life, so no .

[S2M]

Judges sharply challenge healthcare law


A top Obama administration lawyer defending last year's healthcare law ran into skeptical questions Wednesday from three federal judges here, who suggested they may be ready to declare all or part of the law unconstitutional.

And in an ominous sign for the administration, the judges opened the arguments by saying they knew of no case in American history where the courts had upheld the government's power to force someone to buy a product.

"I can't find any case like this," said Chief Judge Joel Dubina of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. "If we uphold this, are there any limits" on the power of the federal government? he asked.

Judge Stanley Marcus appeared to agree. "I can't find any case" in the past where the courts upheld "telling a private person they are compelled to purchase a product in the open market…. Is there anything that suggests Congress can do this?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1995.story

Auto Insurance.....

You arent compelled to buy auto insurance if you dont drive a car. The only way to get out of buying health insurance would be to end your own life, so no .

True....

[Seven Wishes2]

No one should be going soft on the Weiner. We all need to take up a hard line against politicians like him. Now we know he can't be trusted, like a trouser snake in the grass.

[Behshad]

No one should be going soft on the Weiner. .

Thats what she said

[Memorex]

Key Democrats call on Anthony Weiner to resign

The dam is beginning to break for Rep. Anthony Weiner as he battles to save his career from a sex-scandal made for the Internet age.

Rep. Allyson Schwartz, a leading official at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, called for the New York Democrat to resign on Wednesday after a picture of a man’s genitals — purportedly a Weiner self-portrait — began circulating on the Internet. Contacted by POLITICO, a Weiner spokesman neither confirmed nor denied that the picture was of Weiner. “Having the respect of your constituents is fundamental for a member of Congress. In light of Anthony Weiner’s offensive behavior online, he should resign,” the Pennsylvania congresswoman, who serves as chairwoman of recruiting and candidate services for the DCCC, told POLITICO.

In softer tones, Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.) made clear to an Arkansas radio station that Weiner ought to leave Congress.

“Ultimately that’s up to him, and his constituents and his family but I think at this point it would probably be a good thing if he would go ahead and resign,” Pryor said on KUAR in Little Rock.

Rep. Michael Michaud (D-Maine) told a local television station on Tuesday that it would be best if Weiner walked away.

Taken together, Schwartz, Pryor and Michaud appear to be the vanguard of what could become a much stronger push from Weiner’s Democratic colleagues. Two lawmakers, Reps. Betty Sutton of Ohio and Tim Walz of Minnesota, have heeded GOP calls to give up campaign cash they received from Weiner — though neither has said he should resign. Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine, who is running for an open Senate seat in Virginia, said Tuesday that Weiner should resign because he lied about the scandal. And Democratic sources told POLITICO that members of Weiner’s staff are looking for other jobs.

Seems to me the issue is already over. I'm surprised at how little is really being said. In a week, it will likely be a distant memory.

[Saint John]

Gonna be some really bad shit flying at the administration next week when they have to explain why they were selling guns to Mexican bandits. One of these guns allegedly killed a border patrol agent. This is gonna be ugly.

[Seven Wishes2]

Do you remember when the WaPost asked readers to investigate John Kerrys VVAW Files? Do you remember when they asked to help investigate Obama, or when they asked you help investigate Weiner or the ClimateFraud e-mails???

Dude, enough! Back to reality! Palin would be working in porn by now if it HADN'T been for the media. Did you not read my earlier posts about distortion - where there is a zero-fact based rejection of a known idea, and it gets blitzed and hyper-covered by the media, but by the time the truth comes out and those people's ideas are thoroughly debunked, the public and the media has moved on! And for God's sake, man. Climategate has been THOROUGHLY and COMPLETELY debunked! You don't get to keep bringing it up as though it's valid, preying upon people's short attention spans! And the media has been ALL OVER Weiner...LOL.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Ok, tell me the Liberal Washington establishment isn't scared to death of Sarah Palin. This is no joke...it just came out an hour and a hlf ago.

They are much more scared of Rick Perry and it looks like he might just be running after all.

[Rockindeano]

Ok, tell me the Liberal Washington establishment isn't scared to death of Sarah Palin. This is no joke...it just came out an hour and a hlf ago.

They are much more scared of Rick Perry and it looks like he might just be running after all.

Want to gift wrap a second term? The Administration is praying that Palin is the nominee. You really think Obama fears her at all? You're kidding yourself.

[RedWingFan]

Ok, tell me the Liberal Washington establishment isn't scared to death of Sarah Palin. This is no joke...it just came out an hour and a hlf ago.

They are much more scared of Rick Perry and it looks like he might just be running after all.

Want to gift wrap a second term? The Administration is praying that Palin is the nominee. You really think Obama fears her at all? You're kidding yourself.

"Drill baby drill" vs. "check your tire pressure"..we already know who won that argument. The Bamster doesn't want that matchup. Palin is the anti-Obama. Exactly what they don't want.

[Rockindeano]

Ok, tell me the Liberal Washington establishment isn't scared to death of Sarah Palin. This is no joke...it just came out an hour and a hlf ago.

They are much more scared of Rick Perry and it looks like he might just be running after all.

Want to gift wrap a second term? The Administration is praying that Palin is the nominee. You really think Obama fears her at all? You're kidding yourself.

"Drill baby drill" vs. "check your tire pressure"..we already know who won that argument. The Bamster doesn't want that matchup. Palin is the anti-Obama. Exactly what they don't want.

Hitting the bong early today Scotty?

Nothing wrong with the check your tire pressure...it's good advice. The Bamster seems to have moved to the centre a bit regarding drilling....

As for that matchup, she hasn't a prayer. She would get beat by 275 electoral college votes, or more.

[slucero]

double post..

[slucero]

Pain would be the worst possible GOP candidate at the worst possible time... she's way too polarizing to the swing voter.. she'd make it easy for the Dems to move the swing vote back to BO... I'd bet the GOP made a deal with her so she gives the appearance she might run just to keep the swing vote interested in the Republican side. She is easily seen as more populist than the traditional Republican amongst swing conservatives.. but ultimately that deal has to keep her from announcing...

To win:

1. Obama need to re-capture the party agnostic swing vote he clearly lost at the midterms (he'll need the youth vote but they will be absent)
2. the GOP needs to win back the party agnostic swing vote..

The GOP will need a populist candidate who can sway (and WIN) the swing vote... a male Latin or Black candidate...

1. it negates the race benefit Obama has...
2. forces the discussion to the issues.. where they can lay the heat on Obama for the economy and go after the swing (read middle class) voter.

Obama has to have the swing votes to win. Thats why he is positioning himself as more populist. Given the economy.. expect the his swing push to be huge... I'd expect the youth vote to be totally absent this time around, because the youth voter is experiencing unemployment at twice the national rate... so they are going to be even more apathetic (and absent) than they usually are at the voting booth..


The Dems are praying for Palin to announce...

[Seven Wishes2]

Buchanan-Limbaugh!

Palin-Bachmann!

Turner-Overdrive!

[The_Noble_Cause]

They are much more scared of Rick Perry and it looks like he might just be running after all.

Right. And Fred Thompson is a political force to be reckoned with too. I love how the media creates these false narratives and people fall right in line. Much like the pundit-fueled myth of "Bloomberg running as an independent and winning in a landslide" or "Obama being articulate." The truth is, Perry has done nothing to prove that he would be competetive in this race. We don't even know if he can hold his own in a debate. This is all bullshit.

[Saint John]

Buchanan-Limbaugh!

Palin-Bachmann!

Turner-Overdrive!

[hoagiepete]

Now 3 papers are on the hunt...


L.A. Times to post database of Palin emails

NYT Asks Readers to Help Dig Up 'Interesting and Newsworthy' Palin Emails

Help Investigate the Palin Emails (Washington post)



Looks like Palin can now boast she's created more jobs the Obama...

Good one!

I'm not a big fan of Palin's, but this is so bullshit. I guess they realize anything, regardless of context will sell papers. Anyone dogging her for profiting from her newly found fame should go fuck themselves. What she is having to put up with deserves something. In the end, all this nonsense is probably a wash I guess.

[Seven Wishes2]

Well, Obama has a long, long way to go to achieve the job-loss "successes" of Dumbya. Namely, more than five million.

Palin deserves whatever happens to her. She's a garbage excuse for a human being - she's selfish, a liar, and a quitter. My feeling is they'll find enough in there to flog the news cycle for a week or two, once everyone gets bored with Weinergate.

[RedWingFan]

Do you remember when they asked to help investigate Obama, or when they asked you help investigate Weiner or the ClimateFraud e-mails???

Me neither.

Wait, you mean they're searching through mountains of e-mails of someone who isn't even running for president and they didn't search through e-mails of someone who WAS running for president in 2008. A man who had connections to a domestic terrorist? That can't be right. TNC says the media isn't a liberal media...it's a sensationalist media!

[Seven Wishes2]

Wow, you guys are relentless, if nothing else. Palin flat-out quit her job. It's not AT ALL the same thing when a politician seeks higher office. Sorry.