President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[hoagiepete]

Anyone getting sick of Obama lifting his nose in the air and posing from side to side?

Is he really looking down at us regular folks or is he still so damn proud of being president he can't contain himself?

He needs to get over the "I'm so happy I'm president" shit. He seems to be the least prepared president for his normal day to day duties that I have ever seen. I get the impression he is reading his speeches on his teleprompter for the first time when giving them. I can't imagine how ill prepared he is going into meetings where they discuss the important stuff, like ... National Security.

What's up with screwing up remembering giving his first Medal of Honor to a soldier...that was dead at the time? Holy cow. Where is the mainstream media on this one? Can't but help think about the crucifiction that would have occured if GW would have done that one.

[Seven Wishes2]

Way to divert the masses with the bait and switch!

Unlike Bush, who started an illegal war under false pretenses, and was on watch while more than 3,000 Americans were murdered, national security has NOT been an issue under Obama. Remember, Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch, not Bush's.

Anyway, he DOES seem rather pompous at times. And he is a TERRIBLE orator minus the prompter.

Still waiting for someone...ANYONE...to provde any actual irrefutable facts clearly showing that lowering taxes on the wealthy somehow creates jobs. I call a false start here. Back to the issues.

[hoagiepete]

Way to divert the masses with the bait and switch!

Unlike Bush, who started an illegal war under false pretenses, and was on watch while more than 3,000 Americans were murdered, national security has NOT been an issue under Obama. Remember, Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch, not Bush's.

Anyway, he DOES seem rather pompous at times. And he is a TERRIBLE orator minus the prompter.

Still waiting for someone...ANYONE...to provde any actual irrefutable facts clearly showing that lowering taxes on the wealthy somehow creates jobs. I call a false start here. Back to the issues.

As usual, nice job of totally twisting my comments out of context. Points were simple.

1) He seems consumed with the fact he is president, not what he should do to
run the country.
2) He doesn't prepare for things or has a shitty staff. Worries me how he prepares for important issues. I just used National Secuity for an example.
3) He seems arrogant.

[Seven Wishes2]

First of all, your graph does not prove ANYTHING of the sort.

Also, look at it again. Employment goes DOWN every time there's a Republican President, and UP every time there's a Democrat in office. Curious.

[Memorex]

First of all, your graph does not prove ANYTHING of the sort.

Also, look at it again. Employment goes DOWN every time there's a Republican President, and UP every time there's a Democrat in office. Curious.

I think the argument is whether or not lowering taxes creates jobs or if raising taxes costs jobs. The argument is not whether or not raising taxes creates job. There is not a single way for a tax increase to create a job, outside of a government job. And I think we can all agree we don't need anymore of those.

Looking at the graph, I see several things. That over the long haul, the tax rate doesn't affect the job market as much as the cyclic nature of the economy does. I think in difficult times, lower taxes can spur hiring. So all things being equal, taxes are more about entitlements, military spending, foreign aid, etc.

And then it comes down to philosophy. My philosophy is that the government is too large, spends too much, and is extremely inefficient with my money. Nothing they do ever costs what they say, is ever better than private sector, and ever discourages corruption. It's a massive, massive clunker.

As our government becomes more and more generous in the entitlement area, more and more people rely on it. There is less incentive than ever to get off your butt and work. There is less incentive to stop and think before having a kid you can't afford. There is no fear anymore. I have six kids but have never once relied on any government program. When times got tight, I worked three jobs. Much of the new youth of today would never do that.

I never have understood what the obsession is with people wanting more of someone else's money. I do believe in taxes. I believe in limited help. But would my employer keep paying me, even if he liked me, if I took three times as long as necessary to do a job, to the point where he was losing money on me? Nope. He'd look at the process, look at where we can find savings, etc. After that process, we would then cut my pay. So I ask the same of the government. Fix the issues and let's see where we are at. When you are efficient at your role, I'll consider giving you a raise if we need more resources. Until then, stay the hell away from my money.

Fix the damn problem. Simple. And if all the people here who want to raise taxes before the problems are solved, well then I just can't try and reason with that.

[Seven Wishes2]

Well, Memorex, for the most part, I agree with your post and your philosophy.

However, a huge part of the problem would be solved by the wealthy simply paying the same share they were paying when the economy was at its most robust.

[hoagiepete]

What continues to be missed in these discussions is, what is the "real tax rate"? Without knowing that, no argument is valid.

While there used to be higher marginal tax rates, there also used to be massive tax write offs and loopholes, many of which were so dramatic (such as investments like limited partnerships, etc) that the tax credits could be more than the amount invested. Many of these have been eliminated.

[conversationpc]

I think the argument is whether or not lowering taxes creates jobs or if raising taxes costs jobs. The argument is not whether or not raising taxes creates job. There is not a single way for a tax increase to create a job, outside of a government job. And I think we can all agree we don't need anymore of those.

Looking at the graph, I see several things. That over the long haul, the tax rate doesn't affect the job market as much as the cyclic nature of the economy does. I think in difficult times, lower taxes can spur hiring. So all things being equal, taxes are more about entitlements, military spending, foreign aid, etc.

And then it comes down to philosophy. My philosophy is that the government is too large, spends too much, and is extremely inefficient with my money. Nothing they do ever costs what they say, is ever better than private sector, and ever discourages corruption. It's a massive, massive clunker.

As our government becomes more and more generous in the entitlement area, more and more people rely on it. There is less incentive than ever to get off your butt and work. There is less incentive to stop and think before having a kid you can't afford. There is no fear anymore. I have six kids but have never once relied on any government program. When times got tight, I worked three jobs. Much of the new youth of today would never do that.

I never have understood what the obsession is with people wanting more of someone else's money. I do believe in taxes. I believe in limited help. But would my employer keep paying me, even if he liked me, if I took three times as long as necessary to do a job, to the point where he was losing money on me? Nope. He'd look at the process, look at where we can find savings, etc. After that process, we would then cut my pay. So I ask the same of the government. Fix the issues and let's see where we are at. When you are efficient at your role, I'll consider giving you a raise if we need more resources. Until then, stay the hell away from my money.

Fix the damn problem. Simple. And if all the people here who want to raise taxes before the problems are solved, well then I just can't try and reason with that.

Finally, some common sense in this thread. The government should in no way receive additional money from ANYONE until they drastically reduce spending, get the deficit under control, and make some headway on the debt.

[Memorex]

Well, Memorex, for the most part, I agree with your post and your philosophy.

However, a huge part of the problem would be solved by the wealthy simply paying the same share they were paying when the economy was at its most robust.

In the same vein, would you say the middle class should also pay as much as they were? Cause I've enjoyed the cut. Especially the child tax credit.

My daughter had a low-paying job and a kid. She was able to file, legally, in such a way that she received a refund that more than tripled what she paid in. Earned Income Credit. In order for that to happen, I and others have to cover the difference. Multiply her by probably millions.

Again, i have no problem paying what ever the government needs, split fairly, so long as they were doing a good job with the money. We are so far from that. So i think they kind of lose the right to take more. They need to get their house in order. And I am speaking about every single Dem and Republican. Dem's want more money. Republicans want less. But they all want to spend the shit out of whatever is there.

[iceberg]

Way to divert the masses with the bait and switch!

Unlike Bush, who started an illegal war under false pretenses, and was on watch while more than 3,000 Americans were murdered, national security has NOT been an issue under Obama. Remember, Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch, not Bush's.

Anyway, he DOES seem rather pompous at times. And he is a TERRIBLE orator minus the prompter.

Still waiting for someone...ANYONE...to provde any actual irrefutable facts clearly showing that lowering taxes on the wealthy somehow creates jobs. I call a false start here. Back to the issues.

ok, can you show me where raising the taxes has created jobs? and i don't mean the ones obama creates in districts that don't exist. (ie - arizona)

[Memorex]

In order for lower taxes to create jobs, it has to come at a time when there is faith in the economy. Tax decreases alone cannot get a business to hire enough to cause a significant difference if all other indicators are negative.

By the same token, a tax increase will never, ever create a private sector job.

That said, a tax increase during difficult times can cause even more pain and a tax increase in wonderful times may have little negative affect.

That's why I step outside the argument and make it about saying, "Hey, how are you spending this dollar that I worked for?"

[Seven Wishes2]

Way to divert the masses with the bait and switch!

Unlike Bush, who started an illegal war under false pretenses, and was on watch while more than 3,000 Americans were murdered, national security has NOT been an issue under Obama. Remember, Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch, not Bush's.

Anyway, he DOES seem rather pompous at times. And he is a TERRIBLE orator minus the prompter.

Still waiting for someone...ANYONE...to provde any actual irrefutable facts clearly showing that lowering taxes on the wealthy somehow creates jobs. I call a false start here. Back to the issues.

ok, can you show me where raising the taxes has created jobs? and i don't mean the ones obama creates in districts that don't exist. (ie - arizona)

It's very simple. When government revenues are down, time-tested job-creation programs and measures no longer get funded, the deficit skyrockets, interest increases, and the stock market dives. Bush Sr. knew you had to balance expenditures with revenues.

Simply increasing the marginal rate on the richest Americans by a measly 3%, the same amount they paid under Clinton, as well as withdrawing troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to peacekeeping levels, would solve 80% of the current deficit crisis. It's a no-brainer.

[iceberg]

Way to divert the masses with the bait and switch!

Unlike Bush, who started an illegal war under false pretenses, and was on watch while more than 3,000 Americans were murdered, national security has NOT been an issue under Obama. Remember, Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch, not Bush's.

Anyway, he DOES seem rather pompous at times. And he is a TERRIBLE orator minus the prompter.

Still waiting for someone...ANYONE...to provde any actual irrefutable facts clearly showing that lowering taxes on the wealthy somehow creates jobs. I call a false start here. Back to the issues.

ok, can you show me where raising the taxes has created jobs? and i don't mean the ones obama creates in districts that don't exist. (ie - arizona)

It's very simple. When government revenues are down, time-tested job-creation programs and measures no longer get funded, the deficit skyrockets, interest increases, and the stock market dives. Bush Sr. knew you had to balance expenditures with revenues.

Simply increasing the marginal rate on the richest Americans by a measly 3%, the same amount they paid under Clinton, as well as withdrawing troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to peacekeeping levels, would solve 80% of the current deficit crisis. It's a no-brainer.

if you believe the government provides thsi better than free enterprise, no sense in going on. let's agree to disagree. i will never demonize the rich because it's popular.

[conversationpc]

if you believe the government provides thsi better than free enterprise, no sense in going on. let's agree to disagree. i will never demonize the rich because it's popular.

Wealth envy is alive and well in the U.S.A.

[iceberg]

if you believe the government provides thsi better than free enterprise, no sense in going on. let's agree to disagree. i will never demonize the rich because it's popular.

Wealth envy is alive and well in the U.S.A.

hating us because we live is pretty popular too.

just because its all the rage doesn't mean i need a pet rock.

[Memorex]

Bill Maher said. “I don’t call it global warming anymore because that’s bad – because it is climate change. And I’m looking at what’s going on with the weather in this country. You see droughts. You see floods. You see these giant fires. I mean, cattle are dying in Texas. This is what i used to see in Ethiopia.”

Despite climate change being known as a global phenomenon and not isolated to one country, Maher had a grim warning for the commander-in-chief: Do something or the country will face the perils of a third-world nation.

“You know, I understand we’re on our way to being a third-world country, could we just stop at second-world before we get there?” Maher said. “Why doesn’t he point to this and say this is all because of climate change. He doesn’t seem to use what he has to make a case. I don’t hear the Democratic case being made. That’s my point.”

There was one problem with Obama using climate change as a campaign issue, New York Times columnist David Carr added. “It’s tough to run on the weather,” Carr said.

These are the absurd comments I am speaking of re climate change. It's just so silly. There is nothing more happening today than has happened over our lifetimes or a touch longer. Nothing. And common sense people know that. So trying to solve some issue with just plain stupid statements like this is where they are losing ground. How many times can people like that cry wolf before people look around and go, "Hmmmm, nothing has changed."?

Again, we need to be a lot better at reversing pollution, but we should at least be real about it. Anyway, it's just Maher who is kind of kooky anyway, but last week it was Gore again, someone that should speak more carefully.

[Rick]

Bill Maher said. “I don’t call it global warming anymore because that’s bad – because it is climate change. And I’m looking at what’s going on with the weather in this country. You see droughts. You see floods. You see these giant fires. I mean, cattle are dying in Texas. This is what i used to see in Ethiopia.”

Despite climate change being known as a global phenomenon and not isolated to one country, Maher had a grim warning for the commander-in-chief: Do something or the country will face the perils of a third-world nation.

“You know, I understand we’re on our way to being a third-world country, could we just stop at second-world before we get there?” Maher said. “Why doesn’t he point to this and say this is all because of climate change. He doesn’t seem to use what he has to make a case. I don’t hear the Democratic case being made. That’s my point.”

There was one problem with Obama using climate change as a campaign issue, New York Times columnist David Carr added. “It’s tough to run on the weather,” Carr said.

These are the absurd comments I am speaking of re climate change. It's just so silly. There is nothing more happening today than has happened over our lifetimes or a touch longer. Nothing. And common sense people know that. So trying to solve some issue with just plain stupid statements like this is where they are losing ground. How many times can people like that cry wolf before people look around and go, "Hmmmm, nothing has changed."?

Again, we need to be a lot better at reversing pollution, but we should at least be real about it. Anyway, it's just Maher who is kind of kooky anyway, but last week it was Gore again, someone that should speak more carefully.

Nothing will ever change as long as money is changing hands. I, for one, think it's a mathematical impossibility that we aren't heating up the planet. We have created millions upon millions of surfaces that unnaturally hold heat. We've created as many devices that belch out heat. We've inundated the atmosphere with gases that artificially hold heat and not let it escape into space. You don't have to be smart, because I'm sure not, to realize that. The actual impact is what I don't know. Could it be that all the things I mentioned are just a speck on a flea's ass where the whole of the planet is concerned? Maybe, but I think it's much more than that. But that is just what I think.

We've got a humongous, endless source of energy in the sun and wind. With the technology we have today, we could harness it and fuel everything we need. The problem is, they can't control it and they can't make big fat money off of that. They can sell you the solar energy capturing equipment and wind turbines, and that's about it. They're not going to give up their cash cows to save the planet, if it indeed needs saving. They can control oil, gas and coal, but not the sun and winds energy.

I read where they were developing a cell phone that would recharge itself from ambient radio waves. If that thing really does make a debut, all they would have to do is translate that technology to the automobile, and the oil industry would be done. But so would so many economies. We're our own worst enemy. The very thing that may be killing this planet is what drives those economies.

[Blueskies]

We're our own worst enemy. The very thing that may be killing this planet is what drives those economies.

Exactly

[Memorex]

I absolutely think we are having an affect, just not nearly what the naysayers say. And not every single negative indicator can be laid at the doorstep of humanity.

Remember, earth has plenty of natural things that do all the things you speak of. And those things can be far more devastating than us. The planet is large and most of it does not contain humans.

So comments from Gore and Maher and the like end up sounding like religious fanatics predicting the end of the world every 5 years.

[Rick]

I absolutely think we are having an affect, just not nearly what the naysayers say. And not every single negative indicator can be laid at the doorstep of humanity.

Remember, earth has plenty of natural things that do all the things you speak of. And those things can be far more devastating than us. The planet is large and most of it does not contain humans.

So comments from Gore and Maher and the like end up sounding like religious fanatics predicting the end of the world every 5 years.

They can scare us into anything, I think.

[slucero]

some additional data on job gains (or losses)

The Driver Of Employment "Gains" - Job Separations At Lowest In A Decade
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/driver ... est-decade

While the fact that over the past few quarters private payrolls have increased has been widely touted by the administration as an indication that the economic recovery has taken root (even if recent NFP numbers have been decidedly below consensus), the fact is that spin of NFP data looks solely at one part of the monthly change in payrolls data: the new payrolls one. Alas, as the 12 Month rolling average chart straight out of JOLTs ( http://www.bls.gov/web/jolts/jlt_labstatgraphs.pdf ) below demonstrates a just as important, and far less spin-friendly, part of the equation is jobs "separations." The simple math is that the monthly change in payrolls, establishment or household survey aside, is simply equal to new hires less total separations. And it is the latter that is now at decade lows. Said otherwise, payrolls are only up because of the rate of firings is the lowest in the past ten years now that companies have virtually nobody left to fire. This also means that as far as wage negotiations are concerned, workers will have absolutely no leverage. Which can be seen on the second chart. While having picked up modestly in the past several months, the percentage of people voluntarily quitting their job is nearly half of where it has been during the past decade. It also appears to be once again plateauing, now that the jobless recession has double dipped again, and "New Jobs" postings are once again on the wane.

The critical point is the reported BLS NON-FARM PAYROLLS can be driven by one of two things, either A PICKUP IN HIRING OR A SLOWDOWN IN SEPARATIONS.........While the politicians now point to the PRIVATE SECTOR JOB GROWTH, they fail to point out its because of a significant slowdown in SEPARATIONS which is not the same economically as a pickup in NEW HIRING (which is currently at a decade low).

In the 2001, the level of NEW HIRINGS was running as high as 5.8 mm per month. We are currently sitting below 4.0 mm hirings per month and that doesn't account for the required growth in jobs due to demographics.

The bottom line, the "employment gains" have not been due to increased hiring, but due to ever more desperate people no longer daring to leave whatever job security they may have (and willing to take pay cuts as a condition of keeping said jobs).

New Hires and Total Separations:

[Memorex]

Almost two years ago, I walked into my boss' office and said I had an offer with another company at significantly more money. I didn't want to leave, but I couldn't ignore it. So they worked out a deal with me and I remained. I didn't get what the other company offered, but I really love my job and have been here a long time, so it was a fine-enough trade.

That other company has recently been laying a lot of people off (I surely would have been one of them) and now my company is going to be laying off more. We've lost some already due to attrition that we never replaced. I make far more than anyone would hire me for now and I suspect an across the board pay cut will be happening fairly soon where I'm at - anywhere between 20% and 40%.

I recently was trying to hire for a particular position and nearly every resume I got was someone far over-qualified.

My boss has said he will be dropping our health care and we are being asked to ship more and more work to our Philippines office.

Last week I wrote a program to automate 75% of someone's job in preparation for the reduced staff.

And guess what - Our line of work is Corporate Bankruptcies and Class Action. The money is so bad right now that companies are going Chapter 7, not the 11's (restructuring) that we deal with. 5 years ago, Circuit City, Shrouds and others would have restructured instead of closed down completely. We need the money to rush back to the market (inflation worries aside).

Advisers have told our management that they expect no increased restructuring for at least a year or more.

[parfait]

Well I for one will not kill myself to save the planet if it thinks I'm the problem. If mother earth doesn't like me then hit me with lightening or something. Until then Trailblazer Away...

What a ignorant and disgusting comment.

[slucero]

Chicago's finest...

Blagojevich Found Guilty on 17 Counts
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43550514

Jury has convicted Rod Blagojevich of trying to sell or trade President Barack Obama's old Senate seat and other corruption charges.

Jurors delivered their verdicts Monday after deliberating nine days.

Blagojevich had faced 20 charges, including that he sought to sell or trade an appointment to President Barack Obama's vacated Senate seat and schemed to shake down executives for campaign donations.

Blagojevich testified for seven days, denying wrongdoing.

Prosecutors said he lied and the proof was on FBI wiretaps. Those included a widely parodied clip in which Blagojevich calls the Senate opportunity "f------ golden."

Jurors in his first trial deadlocked on all but one charge, convicting Blagojevich of lying to the FBI. Prosecutors opted to try him again.

Blagojevich already faces up to five years for the lying conviction.

[Seven Wishes2]

Dirtbag.

Dog pile on the rabbit!!!!

[parfait]

Well I for one will not kill myself to save the planet if it thinks I'm the problem. If mother earth doesn't like me then hit me with lightening or something. Until then Trailblazer Away...

What a ignorant and disgusting comment.

Kind of like foie gras eh?

Ever tried it?

[parfait]

Well I for one will not kill myself to save the planet if it thinks I'm the problem. If mother earth doesn't like me then hit me with lightening or something. Until then Trailblazer Away...

What a ignorant and disgusting comment.

Kind of like foie gras eh?

Ever tried it?

Yes, it's nasty. Now Famous Recipe Chicken Livers and Gravy is anther story...with cole slaw and a biscuit and you're in heaven. You Frenchies got nothing on the rednecks when it comes to good food.

I like it. Too bad the geese are tortured to the point of getting their stomachs ruptured. I've tried creole food which was okay. Not big into a lot of the salty and fried southern stuff though.

[RedWingFan]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/06 ... al-aliens/

Democrats have 9.1% unemployment, have lost 2.5 million jobs, have tripled the deficit, have increased federal spending by 30%… But will push DREAM Act for illegal aliens this week.
FOX News reported:

Sen. Dick Durbin plans to make a full-court press Tuesday to revive the debate over a controversial proposal to give illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children a path to legal status, as the Obama administration moves on a separate track to grant what some describe as “amnesty” to the same group.

Durbin, D-Ill., in announcing the first-ever Senate hearing on the so-called DREAM Act, said his proposal would “make our country stronger.” Under the plan, which passed the House last year but died in the Senate, illegal immigrants who came here as children and complete two years of college or military service could earn legal status.

Several top administration officials, including Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Education Secretary Arne Duncan, plan to testify before Durbin’s subcommittee. The hearing and a recent memo from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement suggest officials are moving on two fronts to give illegal immigrant students a chance at staying.

[KenTheDude]

Well I for one will not kill myself to save the planet if it thinks I'm the problem. If mother earth doesn't like me then hit me with lightening or something. Until then Trailblazer Away...

What a ignorant and disgusting comment.

Oh, you mean like making fun of babies in a microwave? You're a piece of work.

[parfait]

Well I for one will not kill myself to save the planet if it thinks I'm the problem. If mother earth doesn't like me then hit me with lightening or something. Until then Trailblazer Away...

What a ignorant and disgusting comment.

Oh, you mean like making fun of babies in a microwave? You're a piece of work.

I like exotic food.