President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:20 am

parfait wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Flaming liberals, those French and Greek protesters, indeed. Seriously, what a bunch of lazy douche bags. I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'll be working until I'm 75. Fuck it.


How does looking at people lifting dumbbells constitute work?

Anyhow; it's well documented that even though most Europeans work less than the average American, they're far more effective.


A lecture on hard work from a Frenchman. Something new every day. :wink:

I spent most of my job working shitty jobs, sometimes two...seventy plus hours a week...I've worked hard to get where I am.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:30 am

conversationpc wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Flaming liberals, those French and Greek protesters, indeed. Seriously, what a bunch of lazy douche bags. I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'll be working until I'm 75. Fuck it.


Welcome to Wal Mart! :lol:


Welcome to Wal Mart!...Rip leave me the hell alone!!!
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Postby scarygirl » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:33 am

conversationpc wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Flaming liberals, those French and Greek protesters, indeed. Seriously, what a bunch of lazy douche bags. I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'll be working until I'm 75. Fuck it.


Welcome to Wal Mart! :lol:


Post of the day!! :lol: :lol:
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Postby scarygirl » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:35 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Flaming liberals, those French and Greek protesters, indeed. Seriously, what a bunch of lazy douche bags. I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'll be working until I'm 75. Fuck it.


Welcome to Wal Mart! :lol:


I wonder if we all got jobs at Walmart at age 75 if they will still have distribution deals with Journey and if we will get employee discount. LOL


:lol: :lol:

Good lord by the time I hit 75 Neal will look like Tammy Fay Baker. :lol: Or is that Joan Rivers. :shock:
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Postby slucero » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:49 am

Worth the read: http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/29/c ... ?hpt=hp_t1

The number that's killing the economy
By Will Cain, CNN Contributor
June 29, 2011 2:22 p.m. EDT

New York (CNN) -- This is the only number that matters: 350.

When you're talking about the economy, start the conversation and end the conversation with the number 350. That number reflects the total debt Americans and their government owe as a percentage of the gross domestic product, the total of everything produced in the country. That number is what's killing the U.S. economy.

Each month recently, we've been bombarded with bad numbers: Only 54,000 jobs added in May, unemployment at 9.1%, housing prices down 33.1%, and on and on. These numbers, though, are all symptoms. If we continue, every 30 days, to focus on these numbers -- well, we're like the doctor of an AIDS patient who can only see his patient's lesions, pneumonia and bronchitis. Yes, each one of those can kill the patient, but he'll never get better until you focus on the underlying disease. Debt is this economy's AIDS. And that debt is represented by the number 350.

We spend a lot of time talking about federal government debt. But the debt I'm talking about reflects -- yes, federal government debt -- but also, more importantly, business and household debt. Over the past 20 years, the U.S. private sector -- consumers and businesses -- has taken on historic levels of debt.

Image

Essentially this chart means that every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt -- potential defaults -- and hoarding cash. In turn again, businesses have no interest in hiring, investing or spending in a world of uncertain buyers. There's your economic recession ... stagnation ... potential depression ... right there.

For historical context consider this: In the 1870s, (the Long Depression) debt-to-GDP reached 166%.

In the 1930s, (The Great Depression) debt-to-GDP reached 300%.

Again, today, debt-to-GDP is 350%.

Deleveraging -- or working off all that debt -- is a must for the economy to move forward. Besides, it's not like we have a choice.

A 2010 McKinsey study found that long periods of deleveraging -- periods of six to seven years -- followed nearly every major financial crisis since World War II. And this isn't your everyday "credit-bubble-turned-major-financial-crisis."

There is simply no pretty way to work off all that debt. You can print money and inflate away the debt, which won't win you any world popularity contests.
You can take the laissez-faire approach and allow for massive defaults, which could suck the economy into depression. Or you could muddle through, hoping GDP outpaces credit growth, which could take a really long time.

Regardless, deleveraging is an enormous economic drag. So much so, that in his 1933 article "The Debt-Deflation Theory of Great Depressions," Irving Fisher said the negative effects of debt reduction trumped all other economic factors put together. It's the only number that matters.

We've already reduced the debt from 370% to 350% over the last three years. But right now, too many people are treating the recent recession as though it's your normal, once every decade, recession. The numbers above suggest that this is not your daddy's recession. The numbers above suggest this will be long and hard. We could start by focusing on the right number: 350.



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby hoagiepete » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:15 am

When are the youth of Greece and countries in a similar predicament going to realize... THEY ARE BROKE! There is no money. Something has to be cut.

They remind me of me as a kid. I came from a family that did not have much money. In fact, we were cash poor. Regardless of that, I wanted things we couldn't afford and had to have made my family feel like crap. I whined, griped and was generally a jerk. No matter how much I wanted things, especially things friends had, there was no money to buy them. It didn't matter. I wanted them damn it. I was worried about what everyone else had and what I DIDN'T have. I was a selfish ass. I see a real parallel to what is going on in Europe and here.

The pain I felt was a motivator for me. I got a job mowing lawns as a kid. Buying some of those things with my OWN money was sure more rewarding than having them given to me anyway. I made sure I studied so I could go to college. I worked my ass off in my career. The drive to accomplish these things was a product of what I felt as a kid.

On a separate note, I have no sympathy for those complaining about Social Security. Raise the retirement age for crying out loud. The combination of longer life expectancy and the demographic issue of the large number of baby boomers retiring and less young people coming into the system, the system needs major adjustment. Politicians are too much of pussies to do anything about it. I blame the libs for stirring up the old foagies, AARP card carriers, that want their's and the next generation be damned.

We were warned as kids...over and over...not to count on SS for retirement anyway as the fund was going to run dry before we retired. My wife and I heeded the warning. Those that didn't can't say they weren't warned (is a triple negative ok? :? :) ). We've been hearing about that since the 70s, maybe 60s and before. It is not a recent development.

There may be no SS in 10 years. I'll be pissed as I just spent a lifetime contributing to others' retirement, but some think that's the way it ought to be anyway. As upset as I would be, I don't think I'll damage or destroy private and public property in protest or throw rocks and bottles at police (who are trying to make an honest living) or run up and try to kick and punch same police who are in full riot gear :shock: . Not sure how bright that is...or how effective. Get a clue, get a job, get a life.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:47 am

slucero wrote:Worth the read: http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/29/c ... ?hpt=hp_t1

The number that's killing the economy
By Will Cain, CNN Contributor
June 29, 2011 2:22 p.m. EDT

New York (CNN) -- This is the only number that matters: 350.

When you're talking about the economy, start the conversation and end the conversation with the number 350. That number reflects the total debt Americans and their government owe as a percentage of the gross domestic product, the total of everything produced in the country. That number is what's killing the U.S. economy.

Each month recently, we've been bombarded with bad numbers: Only 54,000 jobs added in May, unemployment at 9.1%, housing prices down 33.1%, and on and on. These numbers, though, are all symptoms. If we continue, every 30 days, to focus on these numbers -- well, we're like the doctor of an AIDS patient who can only see his patient's lesions, pneumonia and bronchitis. Yes, each one of those can kill the patient, but he'll never get better until you focus on the underlying disease. Debt is this economy's AIDS. And that debt is represented by the number 350.

We spend a lot of time talking about federal government debt. But the debt I'm talking about reflects -- yes, federal government debt -- but also, more importantly, business and household debt. Over the past 20 years, the U.S. private sector -- consumers and businesses -- has taken on historic levels of debt.

Image

Essentially this chart means that every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt -- potential defaults -- and hoarding cash. In turn again, businesses have no interest in hiring, investing or spending in a world of uncertain buyers. There's your economic recession ... stagnation ... potential depression ... right there.

For historical context consider this: In the 1870s, (the Long Depression) debt-to-GDP reached 166%.

In the 1930s, (The Great Depression) debt-to-GDP reached 300%.

Again, today, debt-to-GDP is 350%.

Deleveraging -- or working off all that debt -- is a must for the economy to move forward. Besides, it's not like we have a choice.

A 2010 McKinsey study found that long periods of deleveraging -- periods of six to seven years -- followed nearly every major financial crisis since World War II. And this isn't your everyday "credit-bubble-turned-major-financial-crisis."

There is simply no pretty way to work off all that debt. You can print money and inflate away the debt, which won't win you any world popularity contests.
You can take the laissez-faire approach and allow for massive defaults, which could suck the economy into depression. Or you could muddle through, hoping GDP outpaces credit growth, which could take a really long time.

Regardless, deleveraging is an enormous economic drag. So much so, that in his 1933 article "The Debt-Deflation Theory of Great Depressions," Irving Fisher said the negative effects of debt reduction trumped all other economic factors put together. It's the only number that matters.

We've already reduced the debt from 370% to 350% over the last three years. But right now, too many people are treating the recent recession as though it's your normal, once every decade, recession. The numbers above suggest that this is not your daddy's recession. The numbers above suggest this will be long and hard. We could start by focusing on the right number: 350.





Interesting article, shows why government intervention in the business cycle is so diasterous

If the Govt didn't always insist on bailing out businesses too big to fail , the economy would bottom out, and all of the
bad debt in the economy would clear, thus making it possible for lending , spending and growth to start again.. But because
the bad debt never clears, we just keep compounding a debt problem which will kill the economy in the end.
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Postby RedWingFan » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:33 am

Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby RedWingFan » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:59 am

Here's your "Change"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/06 ... -senators/

The Obama White House opened dialogue with the Muslim Brotherhood this week.
Reuters reported, via Weasel Zippers:


The United States has decided to resume formal contacts with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a senior U.S. official said on Wednesday, in a step that reflects the Islamist group’s growing political weight but that is almost certain to upset Israel and its U.S. backers.

“The political landscape in Egypt has changed, and is changing,” said the senior official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “It is in our interests to engage with all of the parties that are competing for parliament or the presidency.”

The Obama Adminsitration also entered talks with the Taliban terrorist organization this month.

But, he’s not going to talk with just anybody.
The Obama White House rejected talks with Republican members of the US Senate today.
Reuters reported, via Free Republic:


The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.

White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.

Mybe they’re too radical for him?
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Postby Memorex » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:29 am

Fact Finder wrote:MARK HALPERIN CALLS OBAMA 'A DICK' ON LIVE TV...


Glad he was suspended, though he should be fired. No responsible person on a responsible network should ever say that about a president, in my opinion. If this is where we are headed, we're in more trouble than I thought.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:36 am

Memorex wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARK HALPERIN CALLS OBAMA 'A DICK' ON LIVE TV...


Glad he was suspended, though he should be fired. No responsible person on a responsible network should ever say that about a president, in my opinion. If this is where we are headed, we're in more trouble than I thought.


They shouldn't be saying that about anyone on live TV, regardless of who the target is.
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Postby Saint John » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:44 am

I hate Muslims. Every one of them.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:21 am

Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:
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Postby S2M » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:29 am

conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


Weren't you listening? Missouri is the craphole now. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby parfait » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:28 pm

conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


No. There's a clear distinction. Islam is as much a political group as a religious one.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:18 pm

So is the "Christian" Coalition.
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Postby Saint John » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:38 pm

conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


I hate EVERY Muslim and hope they ALL die soon. Every one, Dave. EVERY one. I'm not some kunt Christian or some Hindu. I recognize the evil that religion, especially THIS one possesses, and I want them all dead. Muslims are the filth of the Earth.
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Postby iceberg » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:05 pm

parfait wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


No. There's a clear distinction. Islam is as much a political group as a religious one.


agree.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:16 pm

Saint John wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


I hate EVERY Muslim and hope they ALL die soon. Every one, Dave. EVERY one. I'm not some kunt Christian or some Hindu. I recognize the evil that religion, especially THIS one possesses, and I want them all dead. Muslims are the filth of the Earth.


Look not too far to the far right in this nation and you will see "Christians" who despise and hate blacks, Jews and Asians for reasons from color, to money, to jealousy of success. The pasty white in this country are just as bad as the fucking freeloading Oreos, or those stealing burritos. They're in for a rude wake up soon, when the Jew becomes the most popular specie.

The Lord, if one actually does exist, cannot be happy. He either A) fucked up and created way too many races, or B) is really pissed off at the lack of tolerance by Saint John and some others here. Better hope dude has short memory.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:24 pm

iceberg wrote:
parfait wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


No. There's a clear distinction. Islam is as much a political group as a religious one.


agree.


And Christianity isn't? Christianity is the biggest whored out money grubbing bullshit "entity" i the world. Religion? LOL, Christianity is a place for the doubters, a place to run for the poor, and a place to get yourself a bogus tax exemption(which is more republican bullshit.

Christianity, along with fuckin Catholicism, are two of the grandest shit fucked entities in the world, controlling economies for shits sake, and oh yea, judging people. Assholes.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:16 pm

Rockindeano wrote:Look not too far to the far right in this nation and you will see "Christians" who despise and hate blacks, Jews and Asians for reasons from color, to money, to jealousy of success.


The vast majority of Christians in this country don't match any of what you said here even remotely.

Christianity, along with fuckin Catholicism, are two of the grandest shit fucked entities in the world, controlling economies for shits sake, and oh yea, judging people. Assholes.


So you're calling Saint John intolerant for his comments and then you spew this bullcrap. Hypocrite much?
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:17 pm

Saint John wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


I hate EVERY Muslim and hope they ALL die soon. Every one, Dave. EVERY one. I'm not some kunt Christian or some Hindu. I recognize the evil that religion, especially THIS one possesses, and I want them all dead. Muslims are the filth of the Earth.


I'm not arguing that Islam isn't evil. It is. But there's a big distinction between the religion and many Muslims who probably don't even practice it, for the most part, or do so only nominally.
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Postby iceberg » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:45 pm

Rockindeano wrote:
iceberg wrote:
parfait wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Saint John wrote:I hate Muslims. Every one of them.


That's about as dumb as saying you hate Christians, Jews, etc., or anyone who lives in that craphole Chicago. :lol:


No. There's a clear distinction. Islam is as much a political group as a religious one.


agree.


And Christianity isn't? Christianity is the biggest whored out money grubbing bullshit "entity" i the world. Religion? LOL, Christianity is a place for the doubters, a place to run for the poor, and a place to get yourself a bogus tax exemption(which is more republican bullshit.

Christianity, along with fuckin Catholicism, are two of the grandest shit fucked entities in the world, controlling economies for shits sake, and oh yea, judging people. Assholes.


considering you just yelled at someone for being intolerant, i find it funny you turn around and do it the very next post. i was born and raised roman catholic. however, it's not up for me to judge how you feel. rage on son, but it's plain to see you're "judging" in stereotypes.
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Postby RedWingFan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:33 am

Even if Obama were telling the truth about creating 2.4 million new jobs. (which he hasn't!) It cost us $278,000 per job!

Nice job Mr. Community Organizer!!!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/07 ... 0-per-job/

The Obama White House admitted this week that the bogus stimulus cost $278,000 per job.
The Weekly Standard reported, via Free Republic:

When the Obama administration releases a report on the Friday before a long weekend, it’s clearly not trying to draw attention to the report’s contents. Sure enough, the “Seventh Quarterly Report” on the economic impact of the “stimulus,” released on Friday, July 1, provides further evidence that President Obama’s economic “stimulus” did very little, if anything, to stimulate the economy, and a whole lot to stimulate the debt.

The report was written by the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, a group of three economists who were all handpicked by Obama, and it chronicles the alleged success of the “stimulus” in adding or saving jobs. The council reports that, using “mainstream estimates of economic multipliers for the effects of fiscal stimulus” (which it describes as a “natural way to estimate the effects of” the legislation), the “stimulus” has added or saved just under 2.4 million jobs — whether private or public — at a cost (to date) of $666 billion. That’s a cost to taxpayers of $278,000 per job.

In other words, the government could simply have cut a $100,000 check to everyone whose employment was allegedly made possible by the “stimulus,” and taxpayers would have come out $427 billion ahead.

Furthermore, the council reports that, as of two quarters ago, the “stimulus” had added or saved just under 2.7 million jobs — or 288,000 more than it has now. In other words, over the past six months, the economy would have added or saved more jobs without the “stimulus” than it has with it. In comparison to how things would otherwise have been, the “stimulus” has been working in reverse over the past six months, causing the economy to shed jobs.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:01 am

Substantially better than the nearly 10 million jobs lost under Bush, I would say.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:11 pm

No mention by the GOP of the SEVENTEEN TIMES Reagan raised the debt ceiling, or the SEVEN TIMES Dubbya did it...let alone the fact that 40% of the current deficit was caused by the Bush Jr. tax cuts. Bush Sr. understood that if expenditures outpaced revenues, you have to raise the marginal tax rates on the rich.

Given that the CBO estimates 86% of the current deficit is directly attributable to the deficit, or Bush Jr. programs continued by Obama, where exactly does the fat get trimmed? Since most economists and the CBO estimate the stimulus saved the U.S. from a Bush-caused Depression, you can't exactly count that as "frivolous spending" by the current Administration.

So, tell me. You Republicans don't want to raise the tax rates on the richest 2% (even though the "job creation" myth is still perpetuated by the GOP), reduce military spending (except the Nuclear Regulatory Agency), or further reduce our committment in Iraq and Afghanistsan, which would reign in more than 90% of the current deficit. Mega corporations continue to pay the lowest percentage of their revenues in taxes than any other developed country in the world. You're OK with those same corporations outsourcing American jobs to foreign countries, because any attempt to slow that down is "over-regulation". So, entertain me. The public is COMPLETELY against you, I might add, by a better than 2-to-1 ratio. And the Republican side of Congress is even less popular than the Democratic minority.

Oh, there's ALSO definitive proof that job creation has improved dramatically under Obama after plummeting by the Bush-caused global financial crisis.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146414/gallup-job-creation-index-highest-september.aspx
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Postby slucero » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:08 pm

A more accurate measure of "job creation" is to look at the Civilian Labor Force VS. the Employment Level VS. Total Unemployed together.

I pulled the following 3 tables from the BLS site:

  • Employment Level
  • Civilian Labor Force
  • Total Unemployed, Plus All Marginally Attached (also known as U-6)

Shown as the Red line - the Civilian Labor Force Level grew during the Bush term
Shown as the Blue line - the Employment Level grew steadily during the Bush term, then started to fall around Jan '06
Shown as the Black Line - During the Bush term, Total Unemployment Began to rise in Sept '06

Image



The chart clearly shows the Labor Force and Employment grew during most of the Bush years... and began to fall in the last 2 years of his final term.

The black line does not include those unemployed that are no longer counted as part of the regular BLS survey, because they no longer receive benefits... and are considered "no longer in the workforce"... add 3%-5% on top of the U-6 number for a more accurate estimate.

The current measure of unemployment (U-3) is: the Employment Level as a percentage of the Civilian Labor Force Level. The chart shows the Civilian Labor Force as flat/declining, and U-6 rising shows people are leaving the Civilian Labor Force.. so they are no longer counted as part of the Civilian Labor Force.

This means the Unemployment number (U-3) currently being reported is benefitting from a decline in the size of the Civilian Labor Force Level... had the Civilian Labor Force continued to grow... the current unemployment number would likely be much higher.

For "real" job creation to be occurring:
  • The blue line must rise
  • The red line can rise
  • The black line must fall or rise at a lower rate than the blue line

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby RedWingFan » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:26 am

Fact Finder wrote:Paging Dan...St. John....here it comes... :wink:

The damn just broke...Melson gave a secret briefing to Congress....how high can it go....get the popcorn. :lol:


The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr.
Attorney General u.s. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530

Dear Attorney General Holder:

Yesterday, Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson participated in a transcribed interview regarding Operation Fast and Furious and related matters with both Republican and Democratic staff. He appeared with his personal counsel, Richard CullenofMcGuireWoodsLLP. His interview had originally been scheduled through the Justice Department to occur on July 13 in the presence of DOJ and ATF counsel. [b]As you know, however, under our agreement Department witnesses who choose to attend a voluntary interview with their own lawyer are free to exercise that right rather than participate with counsel representing the Department’s interests.

Clearly Bush's fault! Isn't it 7 wishes?
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:34 am

WTF? What does this have to do with anything?

Find me one uncorrupted Administration and I'll find you an Ohio State coach with integrity.

Anyway, it's Quayle's fault.
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Postby scarygirl » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:31 am

Anyway, it's Quayle's fault


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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