President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:11 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:You can't prove that...not one iota...I however have the proof YOU put up that the tax cuts stimulated the economy and revenues increased.

It's not about revenues...it's about spending...or overspending. The government has gotten WAY WAY WAY too big and only fools want it to get bigger.


Stu, it's pretty much common knowledge that revenues were LESS than they would have been WITHOUT the tax cuts.

Where were the Republican budget hawks when they forced through their $800 billion tax cut for the ultra-rich last December?
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:41 am

Seven Wishes wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:You can't prove that...not one iota...I however have the proof YOU put up that the tax cuts stimulated the economy and revenues increased.

It's not about revenues...it's about spending...or overspending. The government has gotten WAY WAY WAY too big and only fools want it to get bigger.


Stu, it's pretty much common knowledge that revenues were LESS than they would have been WITHOUT the tax cuts.

Where were the Republican budget hawks when they forced through their $800 billion tax cut for the ultra-rich last December?


Taxes are not the solution....ever...common knowledge??? Again, you can't prove it. Sorry but that is NOT a given.

No matter what left wing propaganda site you quote from cutting taxes stimulates the economy. It has been show in the revenues every time it has been done. Kennedy did it...major increase in revenue...Reagan, Bush...everytime.

Spending is the problem. It always will be unless we hold our elected officials accountable for the mess they have created.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:49 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:You can't prove that...not one iota...I however have the proof YOU put up that the tax cuts stimulated the economy and revenues increased.

It's not about revenues...it's about spending...or overspending. The government has gotten WAY WAY WAY too big and only fools want it to get bigger.


Stu, it's pretty much common knowledge that revenues were LESS than they would have been WITHOUT the tax cuts.

Where were the Republican budget hawks when they forced through their $800 billion tax cut for the ultra-rich last December?


Taxes are not the solution....ever...common knowledge??? Again, you can't prove it. Sorry but that is NOT a given.

No matter what left wing propaganda site you quote from cutting taxes stimulates the economy. It has been show in the revenues every time it has been done. Kennedy did it...major increase in revenue...Reagan, Bush...everytime.

Spending is the problem. It always will be unless we hold our elected officials accountable for the mess they have created.

I think that for every year the country runs a deficit the President and every member of Congress should forfeit their salary.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:09 am

Guys, I posted a link and graph from the CBO a few pages back PROVING that receipts were below what they would have been without those major tax cuts. The GOP is just flinging the bullshit everywhere now.

You guys cling to the CBO like a life raft when it comes to revisions on the cost of the healthcare bill, but when it comes down to the fact that receipts have been below what they would have been, and job creation per year is around 550,000 per year since under Republican Presidents since 1960, and about 2 million per year under Democratic Presidents. Unemployment goes up when the GOP is in control, and goes down with a Democrat in office.

Keep smoking the good stuff, though, guys. I needed a good laugh tonight.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:13 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Guys, I posted a link and graph from the CBO a few pages back PROVING that receipts were below what they would have been without those major tax cuts. The GOP is just flinging the bullshit everywhere now.

You guys cling to the CBO like a life raft when it comes to revisions on the cost of the healthcare bill, but when it comes down to the fact that receipts have been below what they would have been, and job creation per year is around 550,000 per year since under Republican Presidents since 1960, and about 2 million per year under Democratic Presidents. Unemployment goes up when the GOP is in control, and goes down with a Democrat in office.

Keep smoking the good stuff, though, guys. I needed a good laugh tonight.


Bullshit...that proved they OVERSPENT...you aren't reading your own graph right.
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Postby slucero » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:14 am

..and don't forget to mention this...

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby slucero » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:05 pm

just sad that no one is even paying attention to the latest GDP numbers... specially the one part where estimated Q1-2011 growth was revised downward, from 1.9 percent to 0.4 percent. (wasn't that smack in the middle of all the Fed stimulus?)


That's a 79% MISS...


what part of "falling of a cliff" does anyone not understand?

GDP for Q2 is estimated at 1.3... if we simply adjust by the 79% we get .3


One more thing to ponder...

Economic growth slowed during Q2 as acknowledged by the Fed and indicated by regional Fed surveys, ISM, durable goods, etc so how could Q2 GDP be higher than Q1 GDP?

That would imply the economy accelerated and clearly that has not happened.

In other words just as Q1 2008 was eventually shown as the start of the great recession so will Q2 2011 in subsequent revisions.


This economy was stalling in JANUARY.. and they are worried about a "Debt ceiling" causing a meltdown... laughable... This deal cuts nothing... compared to the deficit increases.. factored in by the CBO..

1. Raise the debt ceiling $2.2 Trillion through the 2012 elections.
2. Cutting $200B a year for 10 years... THAT'S IT? .... from a $2.5 Trillion dollar a year (and growing) budget???...

So the net through 2012 is $400 Billion in cuts, yet a $2.2T raise in the debt ceiling... This whole debt ceiling theater smells of a false flag event.. designed to take attention away from the January GDP revision... which is FAR more worrisome..


these clowns need to be vacated from office... PDQ..
Last edited by slucero on Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Memorex » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:51 am

Interesting article. While it lists 20 things, it's really 5 or 6 things repeated as different symptoms. I enjoyed the fact that the article, while focusing on Obama, was correct enough to spread the blame. This is not one person, not one party. I just wish things would turn around and I've been losing a lot of hope that they will.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/keep-the-change-20-ways-that-the-u-s-economy-has-gotten-worse-since-barack-obama-became-president
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Postby Andrew » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:19 pm

Who spent what?

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Inherited roughly $908 billion in debt, and took it up to $2.6 trillion. Change: +186 per cent.

George H. W. Bush (1989-1993): Took Reagan’s $2.6 trillion up to $4.2 trillion. Change: +62 per cent.

Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Took Bush’s $4.2 trillion up to $5.7 trillion. Change: +36 per cent.

George W. Bush (2001-2009): Took Clinton’s $5.7 trillion up above $10.6 trillion. Change: +86 per cent.

Barack Obama (2009-2010): So far, has taken Bush’s $10.6 trillion up to $13 trillion. Change: +23 per cent.



So....GWB doubles a $5 trillion dollar debt. Wow. His old man didn't far so good either.
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Postby annpea » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:54 pm

Andrew wrote:Who spent what?

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Inherited roughly $908 billion in debt, and took it up to $2.6 trillion. Change: +186 per cent.

George H. W. Bush (1989-1993): Took Reagan’s $2.6 trillion up to $4.2 trillion. Change: +62 per cent.

Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Took Bush’s $4.2 trillion up to $5.7 trillion. Change: +36 per cent.

George W. Bush (2001-2009): Took Clinton’s $5.7 trillion up above $10.6 trillion. Change: +86 per cent.

Barack Obama (2009-2010): So far, has taken Bush’s $10.6 trillion up to $13 trillion. Change: +23 per cent.



So....GWB doubles a $5 trillion dollar debt. Wow. His old man didn't far so good either.
+ 1000 Thank you Andrew: however, people that live in the denial zone will never believe it. :lol:
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Postby Memorex » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:04 am

Andrew wrote:Who spent what?

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Inherited roughly $908 billion in debt, and took it up to $2.6 trillion. Change: +186 per cent.

George H. W. Bush (1989-1993): Took Reagan’s $2.6 trillion up to $4.2 trillion. Change: +62 per cent.

Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Took Bush’s $4.2 trillion up to $5.7 trillion. Change: +36 per cent.

George W. Bush (2001-2009): Took Clinton’s $5.7 trillion up above $10.6 trillion. Change: +86 per cent.

Barack Obama (2009-2010): So far, has taken Bush’s $10.6 trillion up to $13 trillion. Change: +23 per cent.



So....GWB doubles a $5 trillion dollar debt. Wow. His old man didn't far so good either.


Agree totally. However, the Bush's did have some wars to deal with.

Here's my concern. As bad as it was under W, we are already up at least 23% (I suspect much more) in just two years. And if the current administration was allowed to do all they wanted, it would be a lot more.

The other thing is, these numbers should probably be looked at in terms of the makeup of congress. That's who spends the money.

So while I am extremely concerned about how much Republicans spend, I worry even more about where some want to push things. I worry that not every single politician is talking about reigning in the spending. I don't see how even one can talk about keeping things as is or spending even more.
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Postby Memorex » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:08 am

Andrew, your post seems to want to say look at what your guy did vs this guy. That's where I think America, and even the world, has broken down. We seem to be rooting for teams and a score and not what's best. I don't know. I get caught up in it too. Sometime I take a subject close to my heart and get pissed at anyone that opposes it.

Maybe the key is to find a civilization that has lived intelligently for a billion years and see what their answers were. :)
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Postby slucero » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:56 am

I think the key take away here is that none of them have reduced it...


Which brings to mind a famous quote:

"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby S2M » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:03 am

Kudos to congress. Go enjoy your 5 week vacation. You did nothing to reduce the debt...your debt ceiling joke of a decision just extends the time it'll take us to reach insolvency....again, kudos.
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Postby hoagiepete » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:30 pm

Andrew wrote:Who spent what?

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Inherited roughly $908 billion in debt, and took it up to $2.6 trillion. Change: +186 per cent.

George H. W. Bush (1989-1993): Took Reagan’s $2.6 trillion up to $4.2 trillion. Change: +62 per cent.

Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Took Bush’s $4.2 trillion up to $5.7 trillion. Change: +36 per cent.

George W. Bush (2001-2009): Took Clinton’s $5.7 trillion up above $10.6 trillion. Change: +86 per cent.

Barack Obama (2009-2010): So far, has taken Bush’s $10.6 trillion up to $13 trillion. Change: +23 per cent.



So....GWB doubles a $5 trillion dollar debt. Wow. His old man didn't far so good either.


But who was in control of congress during these times? You try to blame the president but forget the rest of the equation.
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Postby ebake02 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:47 pm

S2M wrote:Kudos to congress. Go enjoy your 5 week vacation. You did nothing to reduce the debt...your debt ceiling joke of a decision just extends the time it'll take us to reach insolvency....again, kudos.


Agreed, how can you pass a deficit reduction bill without increasing revenue. We need to close all of these tax loopholes so everybody has to pay their fair share of taxes, you can increase revenue without raising taxes and that's the best way to do it. All of those assholes, except Gabby Giffords, need to loose their jobs over this dog and pony show but unfortunately they won't. Americans have short memories so they'll forget about this mess come November and this broken lemon we call our government will continue to fall into the abyss.
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Postby Andrew » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:57 pm

Memorex wrote:Andrew, your post seems to want to say look at what your guy did vs this guy. That's where I think America, and even the world, has broken down. We seem to be rooting for teams and a score and not what's best. I don't know. I get caught up in it too. Sometime I take a subject close to my heart and get pissed at anyone that opposes it.

Maybe the key is to find a civilization that has lived intelligently for a billion years and see what their answers were. :)


I don't have teams. I just see how fucked my business and earnings are today due to USA being a financial basket case. I need someone (don't care who!!!) just to FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby slucero » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:19 pm

This deal allows both political parties to talk about reform without actually changing anything. The new "cuts" amount to less than $25 billion immediately, of which most were were already scheduled to take effect before this deal. And none of these "cuts" are actually binding. Future Congresses can reverse all of it.

The CBO projects that $9.5 trillion in new debt will have to be issued over the next 10 years. Even with the reductions, $7.1 trillion in new debt would be on the books by 2021.


$100 Billion a year in cuts to a 3.8 Trillion a year budget is 3%


3%!!


All they can find is 3% a year over 10 friggin' YEARS??

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby lights1961 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:50 am

actually the left in the next 6 weeks will start blaming tea party...if the bill does nothing, but even make things worse... now is what would be funny is IF THIS IS THE BILL THAT started to actually get the economy jumping in the coming months... will the libs still call the tea party terrorists... or will they run to take credit???



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Postby SF-Dano » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:27 am

Know that the following is an opinion blog piece. However, I find it an interesting read also.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... tupid.html

August 2, 2011
We The Stupid
Ann Barnhardt

I stand here in abject stupefaction. The so-called "right" or "Tea Party" in this republic is being so thoroughly rolled and defeated that I am struggling to come up with an adequate violent submission metaphor that does not involve prison rape . . . and they honesty think that they're "winning." Really? You call this winning?

•- Obama gets over $2 Trillion to spend before the 2012 election
•- There are no real spending cuts
•- There is a massive tax increase effective January 1, 2013
Obama is going to be handed something in excess of $2 Trillion -- and he has made it perfectly clear that he will spend every penny of it before the November 2012 election. That's why he kept saying, " . . . so we don't have to do this again", meaning raise the debt ceiling again. The debt ceiling would only need to be raised if all of the money had been spent. Therefore, he has stated very clearly that he will spend every penny of any debt ceiling increase. He is going to burn through $2 Trillion-plus in the next sixteen months. This was the Obama regime's plan from day one. Geithner appeared before Congress in early May and told them this in no uncertain terms. This outcome has been a known quantity all along.

There are no spending cuts in this plan. It is all accounting fraud. Saying that you are not going to spend money in Afghanistan ten years from now is not spending cuts. Even if you accept the $1 Trillion in cuts over ten years propaganda, that is only $100 Billion per year, which is essentially meaningless relative to the size of the problem. Furthermore, even a miniscule uptick in interest rates, which given the massive debasement of our currency is now a mathematical certainty, will completely consume that $100 Billion per year. It's all a joke.

Back to the $2 Trillion that Obama is being handed. I honestly think that most people in this country have no understanding of simple counting numbers. Do you not understand how much a trillion is? Where do you think this money is going to come from -- who has two trillion dollars to loan us? China? Nope. Not even close. China's entire GDP is only $6 Trillion. Do you honestly think that China is going to loan us one third of their total annual economic production? China was a huge creditor to us back when $100 Billion was considered a staggeringly large amount of money - which was four years ago. Now $100 Billion is literally a rounding error. Do you realize that there are only a handful of nations of this planet that even have a GDP in excess of $2 Trillion? If these countries loaned us every penny of their GDP, it wouldn't even be $2 Trillion:

Canada ($1.57 T)
India ($1.54 T)
Russia ($1.46 T)

Are you starting to understand the scope of what we are talking about now? Obama is going to embezzle considerably more than the entire economic output of Canada, India or Russia to his cronies before the 2012 election -- and that is just counting this round of spending. This doesn't include the other $5 Trillion he has already burned through since 2009.

China is not going to lend us this money because they simply don't have anything close to that much money to lend. This $2 Trillion is going to come from the Federal Reserve. Where is the Federal Reserve going to get $2 Trillion? They are going to print it out of thin air. We are in the midst of the largest currency debasement ever seen in human history. There is only one result that can come of currency debasement: hyperinflation and total economic and societal collapse.

Have you also forgotten the so-called "Bush tax cuts"? Yeah. Those rates are going to expire on January 1, 2013. Obama will presumably still be occupying the Oval Office at that time assuming that he is not forcibly removed or that the Republic is still intact at that time. Taxes will increase significantly at that point, and the Congressional Budget Office has scored everything put before them given the fact of the massive tax increases on 1/1/2013. Do you understand that? When these Republicans and even these so-called "Tea Party Freshmen" tell you that there are no tax hikes in their "plan," they are consciously, willfully, knowingly lying to you through their teeth.

Finally, I do not understand how it can possibly be that conservative writers are still addressing Obama as if he is actually trying to help the economy, but his well-intentioned policies are failing.

Obama is the enemy. Obama is a Marxist-Communist usurper and puppet front for a cabal of Marxist-Communists who are actively trying to destroy the United States of America. Everything they have done, are doing, and will do has the single goal of collapsing and destroying the U.S. economy, military, constitutional government and culture. What part of "Marxist Revolution" do you not understand?

The Obama regime is not a failure. The Obama regime is not incompetent. The Obama regime has achieved more in two and a half years than anyone could have possibly foreseen. It has debased the currency by 50% of the GDP and guaranteed that our economy will collapse. It has looted the Treasury for more than the size of a top-ten economy and embezzled that wealth into the hands of their fellow Marxists in preparation for the final collapse of the United States. It has ground the economy of the United States to a screeching halt. It has destabilized the entire Muslim world and ensured that there will be a nuclear war centered around Israel within the decade.

The Obama regime has no interest whatsoever in "stimulus" or "getting folks back to work." How can you not understand this? How can we possibly win this war if we refuse to come to terms with the fact that we are in fact fighting a war.

God save the United States of America, because the people are far too stupid to do it themselves.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:16 am

Wow. One of the most factually void and logically fallacied pieces I've ever written...on so many levels. Virtually every sentence is a lie, an exaggeration, or (at best) a misrepresentation of facts.

More on this later...

That being said, I'm not voting for him in 2012. I'll either abstain, or find a wacky 3rd party candidate. He has governed right of center too often for my tastes, and when he's gone to the left, he's driven off the cliff. A truly weak leader and a lousy President.
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:14 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Wow. One of the most factually void and logically fallacied pieces I've ever written...on so many levels. Virtually every sentence is a lie, an exaggeration, or (at best) a misrepresentation of facts.

More on this later...

That being said, I'm not voting for him in 2012. I'll either abstain, or find a wacky 3rd party candidate. He has governed right of center too often for my tastes, and when he's gone to the left, he's driven off the cliff. A truly weak leader and a lousy President.



I say this to myself with your every post. :lol: :wink:

He tops himself with every post!!! :lol:
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:29 am

Fact Finder wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Wow. One of the most factually void and logically fallacied pieces I've ever written...on so many levels. Virtually every sentence is a lie, an exaggeration, or (at best) a misrepresentation of facts.

More on this later...

That being said, I'm not voting for him in 2012. I'll either abstain, or find a wacky 3rd party candidate. He has governed right of center too often for my tastes, and when he's gone to the left, he's driven off the cliff. A truly weak leader and a lousy President.



I say this to myself with your every post. :lol: :wink:

He tops himself with every post!!! :lol:


even refuted himself with that one.... :lol:

I'm making this my new sig!!! :lol:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:44 am

Only the GOP could be capable of thinking Obama got the better of them on this deal.

Spineless Barry caved in on every single count and let down his entire constituency in the process.

This was a Republican rout, make no mistake.
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Postby donnaplease » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:11 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Only the GOP could be capable of thinking Obama got the better of them on this deal.

Spineless Barry caved in on every single count and let down his entire constituency in the process.

This was a Republican rout, make no mistake.


Why does there have to be a winner and a loser in this? If our politicians cared more about doing the RIGHT thing instead of endlessly trying to one-up each other, we might not be in such a shit-hole... :roll:
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Postby scarygirl » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:09 pm

donnaplease wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Only the GOP could be capable of thinking Obama got the better of them on this deal.

Spineless Barry caved in on every single count and let down his entire constituency in the process.

This was a Republican rout, make no mistake.


Why does there have to be a winner and a loser in this? If our politicians cared more about doing the RIGHT thing instead of endlessly trying to one-up each other, we might not be in such a shit-hole... :roll:


I'm with you. I'm sick to deah of both sides.
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Postby Memorex » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:24 pm

donnaplease wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Only the GOP could be capable of thinking Obama got the better of them on this deal.

Spineless Barry caved in on every single count and let down his entire constituency in the process.

This was a Republican rout, make no mistake.


Why does there have to be a winner and a loser in this? If our politicians cared more about doing the RIGHT thing instead of endlessly trying to one-up each other, we might not be in such a shit-hole... :roll:


There were no winners.
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Postby slucero » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:38 pm

interesting data...


Food Stamp Use Surges By Most In Years As Alabama Foodstamp Recipients Double In May
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/food-stam ... double-may

It appears that GDP data revisions are not the only thing that the administration enjoys fudging with in order to make the Chinese ministry of Truth seem like a real ministry of truth. After last month the data for April food stamp recipients indicated the we may, just may, be reaching an inflection point in the foodstamp participation following a mere 60 thousand jump in those receiving Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), today's just released data confirmed that the BLS and BEA may have had a hand or two when determining this latest data series. Because the just announced jump in foodstamp usage of over 1.1 million is entirely out of the blue, and as the chart below shows, is the highest single monthly jump in Foodstamp participation since mid 2009, when eligibility requirements were adjusted. Yes, that's 45.8 million people (obviously an all time record) living on foodstamps which amount to the whopping $133.80 per person (an increase of $0.54 M/M) and $283.65 (an increase of $1.29) per household. Obviously, annualizing the latest monthly rate of 1.1 million people, it means that over 13 million Americans will live on about one third what the cheapest iPad costs in about a year.

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But wait, there's more. Digging into the numbers reveals something pecuiliar: virtually the entire surge in monthly SNAP participation is due to one state alone: Alabama, which saw those living on foodstamps jump from 868K to 1.762MM. That's 36% of Alabama's population. Is this merely a grand rehearsal for the Jefferson County bankruptcy? Did the state see a mass surge in foodstamp use as hundreds of thousands are trying to game the system in advance of what will be an apic Chapter 9? And if yes, what does that mean for all the other states which will promptly follow in the footsteps of Jefferson County, and for US foodstamp participation?

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:24 am

Now, THAT is disturbing.

You realize we're all f***d no matter what, right? Shit, a Big Bird - Bob Uecker ticket would do better than any combination either party can offer.

I'm done. It's so pathetic I no longer care.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe."
---Albert Einstein
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:47 am

Sums it up in less than a minute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqoGORXAv2o
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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